Ok, so i've been trying to find interesting concepts to roll up and after a lot of thinking I thought about how a faction made up entirely of app races would be uber cool.
Faction: Beastmen Bandits.
Alignment: NE, CE, CN
Goals: If you are interested, please PM me for an overview of these.
You would need to write an app for a beast pc and get it accepted, and I would need 4 or 5 players max for this. Also, expect this concept to not last long, or your pc's to be short lived. We will be rapidly makign enemies with most of the ziggurat, and as beast-people we would be hunted and killed.
But you all know it would be damn fun.
Pm me for more info.
Eq.
I find the alignments to be a bit restrictive. Can you also give us some examples of acceptable beastmen from your perspective? I would propose that goblins and kobolds are also considered beastmen because they are beastly in bearing if not in brawn, haha.
I mainly picked those alignments because obviously they couldnt be lawful, or good seeing as we would be merciless mugging people and creating a lot of hate. TN would be ok to play also.
Any beastmen would be ok, Hobgoblins are tactical and brutal, I actually already have 2 people interested. But good ones would be Gnolls, Bugbears, Ideally i would really love to see a Minotuar Pc get in on this.
I would not wish or any goblins or kobolds. If you are interested still send me a pm, i'll explain the concept fully.
Damn furries.
Looks like a fun idea if you can get it to fly.
On a side note, Lawful is not exactly following the law, but living by a rather strict code of morals and rules, good, evil, or somewhere between. They do not need to be the rules or morals laid out by the general public or by those currently in charge.
Anyway, the point of that was that LE could fit in I think.
VP if you think you can get a LE concept for this. please do roll one up. I need more beastmen.
Any more interest! PM me!
Things like this defenatly should not be mentioned here! --> I actually already have an Ogre Pc interested.
No offend, by why do you need to play beastmen to play bandits? You'll get more folks in if your faction doesn't need apps, imo.
And you would get more gaurds if it didnt take an application. It is not always about numbers. I like the idea of this concept. ANd I personaly love the idea of a rag-tag bunch of races. Sure a human could fit in. But lots of monsters would be funny to see.
Wouldn't get your hopes up but unlikely we approve tons of subrace in the right future as there are tons of subrace already IG.
It's not our intention to bloat the server with subraces either.
Think about it. What is hated by the zig? Bandits. What is hated more by the zig? Beasts. So... Lets combine the two, and go mental. Join the fun. It's one app, and imo it's more likely to get approved if you have a ready made faction with goals to rock out with.
(Just read morts post) Anyone who has a beastman, teifling type pc Ig already. pm me if you think ou might want to join in.
I doubt chaotic or true neutral would be fit for a bandit since, well, bandits are evil. :p
Course it would. let me name you one really obvious one. Robin Hood.
If we mercilessly killed. maybe. But banditry isnt inherently evil, just lawless. and illegal.
Robin Hood stole to give to others. The bandits you have in mind certainly wouldn't do that.
And who said you need to kill to be evil?
Stealing isn't necessarily evil, and neither is banditry.
On the whole, your bandits are going to be the outcasts of society looking to get by with limited skills and an aversion to hard work, with a relatively small portion being the rape 'n' pillage eb0l-doers.
"Stealing isn't necessarily evil"
If someone didn't have any other means to survive, no. A street urchin who steals bread isn't evil. Bandits who hurt and rob non-evil people are necessarily evil.
Nonsense. Worrying about who is or isn't evil is something for good folks to worry about.
Bandits who rob travellers, applying beatings to folks that refuse to hand over their due, aren't strictly evil.
Evil requires a certain amount of malevolence or a very low regard for the lives of others.
Smacking people on the back of the head for their gold just doesn't cut it.
Quote"Stealing isn't necessarily evil"
If someone didn't have any other means to survive, no. A street urchin who steals bread isn't evil. Bandits who hurt and rob non-evil people are necessarily evil.
I believe they would be chaotic, not evil.
This sounds like an interesting concept!
Quote from: Anonymous Bosch;123641Nonsense. Worrying about who is or isn't evil is something for good folks to worry about.
Now
that is nonsense. :confused:
QuoteBandits who rob travellers, applying beatings to folks that refuse to hand over their due, aren't strictly evil.
No, they are strictly good. Hells, thanks to them their victims dont have to carry so much weight. :-D
QuoteEvil requires a certain amount of malevolence or a very low regard for the lives of others.
So I guess if someone enters your house, beats you to near death, and robs everything from you, he is not malevolent and hold your life in high esteem. :-D
Quote from: AfroMullet;123642I believe they would be chaotic, not evil.
Chaotic (for example CN) means following one's own desires above anything else, refusal of rules, etc. It doesn't mean you will be robbing others anymore than if you were of another alignement, unless CE.
CE is actively performing evil, CN is actively working to benefit yourself. What we consider Evil and what is Evil alignment are different! Bandits can innately be CE or CN, depending on if they willing accept Priests of Cyric, torture people into finding out about hidden treasure, and burn the house after looting it, you're CE.
If you just hit people on the head and run with their purses, you're CN.
Belgaroth, if you aren't playing a paladin now, get on it immediately. :P
Quote from: Belgaroth;123665Chaotic (for example CN) means following one's own desires above anything else, refusal of rules, etc. It doesn't mean you will be robbing others anymore than if you were of another alignement, unless CE.
Chaotic evil = Both
What you are describing is a man with no respect for law. He does what he must to get away with deeds, not because he wants to harm someone, he simply does not care about that man in particular and has no law to stop him.
Example: The barbarian hits the man on the head, robs him and then gets away. Aditionally the robber might kill the man if he considers it necesary for the city guard not to chase after him (no witnesses) But not because he felt like it.
Or
The rogue sees a man laying on the floor, drunk and incapable of fighting back, robs his purse, leave the drunk on the floor and slips into the night.
An evil robber not only robs because he obeys no law and cares not about the man he robs. But he also does it because he enjoys or desires the death/suffering of the man he robs, either if an specifical one, or not.
Example: The barbarian hits the man on the head, robs him and then beats the crap out of him, he hadn't even thought he had to get rid of the witnesses, he just felt like killing/harming the guy.
Or
The rogue sees a dunk on the floor, he slits his throat and then grabs it's purse. Then goes away.
That the society makes us thing whatever it says (laws) is the "good" thing, doesn't make it true. That is lawfull, not good.
And yes, you would make an awsome paladin.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;123702Chaotic evil = Both
What you are describing is a man with no respect for law. He does what he must to get away with deeds, not because he wants to harm someone, he simply does not care about that man in particular and has no law to stop him.
Which is what evil is about. Chaotic Neutral is about following one's desires above anything else, as long as you're not harming anyone.
Good is helping others at your own expense.
Neutral is acting always in your own benefit, without harming anyone (hence the name: neutral)
Evil is acting for your own benefit by harming others.
QuoteThe rogue sees a man laying on the floor, drunk and incapable of fighting back, robs his purse, leave the drunk on the floor and slips into the night.
That would still be a slightly evil act (specially if the man in question is poor), but not as much as hurting him first and then rob him.
QuoteExample: The barbarian hits the man on the head, robs him and then gets away. Aditionally the robber might kill the man if he considers it necesary for the city guard not to chase after him (no witnesses) But not because he felt like it.
Are you saying he would be CN if he killed the man out of necessity and not out of bloodlust?
I need to quote this I think:
QuoteNeutral evil is pure pragmatism without honor and without variationâ€"survival of the fittest.
A neutral evil character does whatever he can get away with. He is out for himself, pure and simple. He shows no remorse for those he kills, whether for profit, sport or convenience, and he has no love of order and holds no illusion that following laws, traditions, or codes would make him any better or more noble. On the other hand, he does not have the restless nature or love of conflict that a chaotic evil villain has.
Some neutral evil villains hold up evil as an ideal, committing evil for its own sake. Most often, such villains are devoted to evil deities (//%22http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Deities%22) or secret societies.
Career criminals, particularly those who harm others for money, such as hitmen, are the most obvious example of neutral evil.
Which is more or less what you mistook with CN.
Why do you not want goblins or kobolds? They are the easiest subrace to get approved, and they would make sense for this concept.
So, what is CN if not that? You seem to be saying that anything done that might minorly inconvinience another soul is evil, so CN would be... Never doing anything?
And, the fact of the matter is, there are CN bandits. CN bandits have been played properly and kept that alignment, and CN bandit NPCs have appeared in everything. Bandits can be Chaotic Neutral.
"A wandering rogue who lives both by work for hire and petty theft is an example of a chaotic neutral character."
Quote from: SkillFocuspwn;123819So, what is CN if not that? You seem to be saying that anything done that might minorly inconvinience another soul is evil, so CN would be... Never doing anything?
Never harming anyone, exactly. Read my previous post again. A CN char is restless, conflictive, unpredictable, but not evil. He might punch someone because he has pissed him off (that wouldn't be considered evil!), but he wouldn't sistematically beat and rob people.
QuoteAnd, the fact of the matter is, there are CN bandits. CN bandits have been played properly and kept that alignment, and CN bandit NPCs have appeared in everything. Bandits can be Chaotic Neutral.
You mean, like the npc bandits in NWN who are set automatically to hostile, out to kill you?
Quote"A wandering rogue who lives both by work for hire and petty theft is an example of a chaotic neutral character."
That's the key word: petty. Beating someone and stripping him of everythig isn't "petty".
As an example, a "rebel without a cause" is imo a good example of a CN person.
CN seems more like a robber imo, it describes CE as being destructive crazy villians. A bandit is more of a lazy or poor person who needs things and will do what they must to get what they can. They are neutral in the aspect of they aren't out to murder and butcher but they aren't out to help others either.
Read my post again... That's NE, not CN.
Oh and that reminds me I have thought of a way to make a bandit LE or LN. Probably would work for beastmen but a highwayman is lawful as he has his own code of honour.
You should not just restrict it to Beastmen, I play a bandit myself an no bandit group is ever made up of like-minded PCs, you got a bandit group you got a bunch of money hungry fellers, whatever their class/race.
If killing equals evil, then paladins are damn evil, they go arround killing goblins and kobolds! if i think about it.. well everyone is evil then. How many chracters not go for their own convenience killing random creatures?
No, no. You are evil when you wish to hurt somone, when you desire the suffering or death of others, an adventurer that goes in and kill the kobolds because he wants their gold is not evil because he does not do it for the bloodlust, he does it for the gold. In wich case he is neither good or bad.
Or as long as i only kill evil people, i'm good? makes no sence at all.
Neutral means you are willing to do good things or bad things same, the bandit wants the gold, that's it. But he might be as well willing to give it to the orphan girl if he sees her in a soft-hearted moment, or maybe he only does it to feed his family, or maybe.. well there are tons of things the badnit could do after killing the guy that aren't evil. Alignments can't be messured by a single act.
On-topic
What about werebeasts? i'd like to see werewolves and wereboars in the group as well.
I'd love to see a werebeast involved. The main reasons for me choosing beastmen only are to do with backwards thinking of magic and the like.
I am now considering opening this to more savage type pcs. But only with good reason. I mainly want beastmen.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;123880If killing equals evil, then paladins are damn evil, they go arround killing goblins and kobolds! if i think about it.. well everyone is evil then. How many chracters not go for their own convenience killing random creatures?
I said, in a previous post:
Bandits who hurt and rob
non-evil people are
necessarily evil.
In other words, hurting and robbing evil people isn't evil. For example, bandits who rob, let's say an Ilmateri, taking all the gold he intended to give to the poor, are evil. Bandits who only rob evil people would be neutral, or good if they are Robin Hood-like (giving what they stole to others)
QuoteNo, no. You are evil when you wish to hurt somone, when you desire the suffering or death of others
I hope you don't mean that someone who kills for any other reason than because he likes to see other suffer isn't evil?? TBH that would be one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. And that would be even more worrysome if you think that irl a person who kills for any other reason than the pleasure of it is not evil.
QuoteOr as long as i only kill evil people, i'm good? makes no sence at all.
Next time, please read what I wrote before replying. It's really annoying to have to repeat stuff. You are not good because you kill evil creatures, you are good when you help others at your own expense.
QuoteNeutral means you are willing to do good things or bad things same
This is crap. Never has this been said anywhere.
Quotethe bandit wants the gold, that's it. But he might be as well willing to give it to the orphan girl if he sees her in a soft-hearted moment, or maybe he only does it to feed his family, or maybe.. well there are tons of things the badnit could do after killing the guy that aren't evil. Alignments can't be messured by a single act.
Well, no, they can't. But some actions weigh more than others. It's not: "I kill and rob 10 people each day, 5 pts towards evil, but another day I pity a poor girl so I give her money 5 pts towards good". Far-fetched something like this would happen, tough.
Pretty sure this thread used to have a point, and that it wasn't about defining alignments. :P
Ok, Belgaroth i'm tired of you using my thread as a debate ground for soemthing that now has little relavence to the topic.
Make a new thread or quit.
Pm me for more info on this concept.
Clarification regarding alignment issues should be addressed in a separate thread elsewhere such as the Ask a DM forum, the opinions expressed in this thread should not be considered relevant to EFU.
Thanks howland.
I have now three people interested in this concept. looking for maybe one or two more. I am also perhaps taking on -ONE- Human or preferrably halforc ifor a specific role for this concept. Please pm me if interested.
I'd like to join in.
I have a Half-Orc new to the colony, currently looking for a new master to serve, the first person who decides to take advantage of his lack of joy for his new freedom will become his new liege.
Vrok is his name, i love this concept, and since i'd one of the few non-beasts i'll contrast much, something i love to.
He is also True Neutral, so he might fit in.
Also, let me apologize for the alignment debate, wansn't my intetnion to continue the debate for more than a couple posts at most. Sorry.
Never you answered my question though, how abotu werebeasts who wish to join the faction?
I did answer, a few posts up. Werebeasts would be welcomed.
Quote from: Equinox;123916Ok, Belgaroth i'm tired of you using my thread as a debate ground for soemthing that now has little relavence to the topic.
Euh, well, you need more than one people to debate... But okay. :rolleyes:
Now about the faction: do you have objectives besides being bandits? Having other realizable objectives would make the faction more interesting imho.
HE CANT TELL U ALL THIS STUFF UNLESS YOU R INTERSTED MN
I WAS ASKING IF HE HAD THEM, NOT WHAT THEY WERE ZOMG MN