I'll try to keep this short, and not aimed at anyone in particular. #EfU has gotten obscenely toxic over the last month, and I don't know where it's come from. False rumors are propagated and churned, players are pretending to know the motivations of players and characters, and people are being overall pretty scummy.
I know that it's not just me that has seen or felt this, though I am definitely party to some shit talking, and taking some beatings as well.
Can we please stop being condescending and jerkish to each other? We can definitely be better than this. It has gotten so brutal in the channel in the past that it makes one physically cringe.
Now this is not saying stop the ribbing, and go love each other and hold hands... But keep in mind that there are other players on the other side of the screen, and odds are they're trying their best to cultivate their story just like you are.
I will make this very simple to people.
1. Do not presume to know anyone behind a character. Even if you have played with them, you have known each other through our community for years, don't use it as a bullet in common discussion. #efu channel is not for arguing, it's for discussing and making arguments out of interest, passion and wish to improve things. Do not mistake this for an invitation to be rude or hostile.
2. Treat each other with respect. Even if you don't particularly like someone, you will not call them out for shit in the channel. Whether you are an adult in the eyes of laws or not, you are upheld to a standard here. If you cannot follow it, get out.
Discussion can easily turn into arguments but it is not a place to spread in game matters or have any IC interaction bleed into from the game. You have responsibility to remember this. Plain and simple. I don't know how many times this has been said over the years, and many of our players closing to respectable years in their lives. Young adults, we got doctorates, masters of science, we got geniuses and hard working folk in our groups now, instead of just young teenagers. Mind you, being young ain't bad either, but my point is this:
You should know that this kind of toxic behavior won't fly. Not in real life. Not in here. Many have gotten too comfortable with it and let basic norms of mutual interaction fly out of the window. Respect for each other as human beings. This is something you will show to each other, even if you are upset. This goes for us DM's and players alike. Everyone can be called out for this.
As someone that's been here for a year now leaving-and-rejoining from time to time I can say efu's IRC is a really demotivating place. Every fucking PvP I have to go to #efu to defend my actions, and subchannels are filled with rumourmongering and speaking ill of each other behind one's backs.
You guys are jerks. Sorry.
So I quite agree with this thread. On the other hand, the DM-team is fantastic and outside IRC those who play ingame generally provide a joyful playing experience. It's just IRC.
I've seen some harsh stuff in IRC played off as 'late night #efu' but really recently I have had a player straight up just call me a shit player and then continue to extremely harshly bash me as a person and player then continue to critique all my PCs which clearly they have no idea about. I do hope people can wake up and treat others with respect, sadly I doubt it. With a low player count and active DMs I feel a hostile and negative IRC channel will not help at all. Just because you're a 'vet' or you view yourself as a pvp god or some DM loves you to death so you get tons of glory doesn't mean you can or should talk down to anyone else.
I know of at least one player that left EfU because of the trash talk of trolls on #efu. I don't know why some people on this server act like they are Conor McGregor. I'm trying to bring a friend to play here, but I made real sure to tell him to go on #efusending and stay away from #efu unless they have a question and leave after its answered.
I have had two friends absolutely refuse to play on EfU because of this. Good, smart, interesting people. I couldn't even argue with them. I understood their problem and all I could offer was "Most people aren't that bad."
Commenting for the first time in ages because this was brought to my attention. I can confirm. I lost interest in playing because of how toxic people were. I made some good friends that I still talk to, but there are some people that have become confused as to what behaviour they should exhibit. I enjoy the ruthless plotting and scheming. I don't enjoy how rude people are. Being rude until someone leaves and being cunning are not the same thing. Some of my friends, who enjoy D&D, have asked me about this server on several occasions. I won't show them because I don't want them to experience the "salt".
Caddies griefed Ed Greenwood
Poor Eddie :-(
Not going to lie, I wont touch IRC unless I need a Dm, its just not worth it most of the time.
More than once I've asked a genuine question to get back the equivalent of "git gud kid"
Hell, My first experience with it a few years ago was someone literally calling me scum because of the job I have. Leaves a bitter taste.
Hum, to offer a contrasting opinion, I find #EFU enjoyable most of the time. I enjoy the debates, the bants, the anecdotes, and generally talking to people outside the game medium.
In fact I have to actively restrict myself from not logging onto #EFU at work, or else productivity goes to the dumpster with Ed Greenwood.
#EFU, for me, is part of the fun.
There is a tendency to toxicity. I can note that, and it's probably why I don't drop in the IRC much anymore. Hell, if I was to point it out on IRC, I'd get mocked.
I'll ask a question or two about the game and sometimes players are helpful! However, it's 50/50 on whether I get help, or insulted for not knowing NWN as well as some other players. The OOC tension has resulted in me taking breaks for other servers. It's disappointing since I think efu has the best sense of 'tabletop humor' I've seen on NWN when it's not personally insulting. Some very cerebral roleplayers.
I think #efu is only as enjoyable as the thickness of your skin. This "toxicity" people keep talking about is something they themselves have often partaken in. It's a natural thing that happens. If irc isn't for you I think that is fully acceptable. Irc is never going to be entirely the aspects you enjoy without the aspects you don't enjoy(commonly referred to as toxicity, but this is relative.) This goes for everyone, myself included.
Quote from: Pentaxius;n674556Hum, to offer a contrasting opinion, I find #EFU enjoyable most of the time. I enjoy the debates, the bants, the anecdotes, and generally talking to people outside the game medium.
In fact I have to actively restrict myself from not logging onto #EFU at work, or else productivity goes to the dumpster with Ed Greenwood.
#EFU, for me, is part of the fun.
It's easy for you to say that. Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to be relatively universally liked and part of the #efu clique. I've seen people be absurdly nasty in really off the cuff ways. I think the idea of a thick skin implies that there is something worthwhile to be gained from endurance. There is criticism and anecdotes and spirited debates. This is more often than not overwhelmed by unadulterated hatred, elitism, etc. It doesn't bother me enough to seek any form of restitution (i'm an adult, I'm not going to tattle on someone because they were mean to me, I have better things to do, etc), but I see it... around half of the times I've logged into IRC, and it universally comes from the core group of clique members and a select few DMs. I witnessed one DM in particular jump down someone's throat and spew such ridiculous venom over something so utterly trivial, saying things I feel I could only say at my absolute peak of anger, and it came out of nowhere, 0-100. I actually found myself amazed at how quickly someone could stoop so low, and it's not banter. Banter is cheeky and fun. Blatantly insulting someone isn't banter, it's just hateful and tedious and childish.
I don't know why I'm writing this because there is really nothing to be done. I guess it feels good to get it off my chest. It is what it is, and it is far too ingrained within the culture of this server. I remember when I first rolled a druid and I took a screenshot of some druid content cause I was really impressed with everything that went into it and I wanted to give props so I went to EFU and posted my screenshot and started to talk about it and I was literally met with "congratulations, you hit level 8 and then went and stood in a spot for 15 minutes. Do you expect anyone to give a shit?" This was a from a prominent player. Like I'm not even allowed to express my admiration for the server without it turning into an argument about whether or not someone should care that I found something I'm impressed with, and I think that the dialogue there is really telling as to the culture of the IRC, because their perception was that I was tooting my own horn, just because I was like "wow this druid content is cool". This server is very OOCly cutthroat sometimes. Everything is about epeen. I feel like some of you have the vast majority of your confidence riding on how well your character does in this ----game---. I don't mean that to sound hurtful or petty, that's just the only justification I have for this.
I've been called all sorts of names. I suppose I can be an instigator or difficult to interact with here and there, but some of these insults are very schoolyard to me (retard, etc). This is simply the culture of #efu. It stems from 4chan and meme culture with a healthy dash of gosu epeen moba hardcore pvper mentality. It reminds me of counterstrike sometimes, the way some of you behave. I don't think this thread will really accomplish anything in terms of fixing that. The unfortunate thing is how often it bleeds into the game itself. Some of you are just insufferably bitter, and I don't even get angry because it's actually quite saddening and embarrassing to witness. This is still the best server that has ever existed in NWN, and a lot of that is because of the community. There are some really awesome people here.
That being said it's really difficult for me to have any characters that have any longevity because I am simply not here for the drama, so when I start getting drama, I stop playing the character, make a new account, etc. I've made concepts that I've really believed in and loved and was super inspired with the character and I've spent a lot of time in certain cases fleshing out backstories, only to lose interest in logging in once things get interesting.
One player relentlessly argued with me for at least 30 minutes (despite my consistently trying to end the argument) because my high int mage that had run into 3 RSDs in the past few days tested a cantrip on one of our party members before casting real buffs, which seems a perfectly innocent thing to do, but of course it devolves into a 30 minute rant about how I'm OOC and metagaming and incorporating OOC mechanic knowledge into my character (a character this player knew NOTHING ABOUT, this was our very first interaction), just because my CHARACTER witnessed his spells failing to work on other characters on several occasions. What am I supposed to do? Drop my wisdom to 6 and act surprised when my buffs don't work?
I feel like almost every single time I win or escape in PVP I'm immediately met with a slew of angry accusations about how I broke this rule or that rule, and this always leads to a 30 minute discussion where I have to go on IRC, find a DM, ask a veteran player if I broke a rule, and it almost always turns out that (I think there was one instance where I moved after being subdued because I thought PVP was over but it turned out it wasn't) I didn't do anything wrong and it's just another bitter manchild who's mad because they lost. It feels really difficult to have a character of any longevity if you aren't interested in dealing with OOC politics and having to justify every single move your character makes to players who roleplay their characters in borderline OOC ways, powerlevel like crazy, etc. It sucks because I love PVP and I love low level, hardcore environments and I think every aspect of this server is the best of the best that NWN has to offer. And I want to get involved and have a lengthy, memorable character and I always try to make one that is going to last but the drama is just too tiresome. I don't have the time or the energy. I feel like I have to run OBS everytime I PVP
I'm sorry if this seems overly negative. This is really the best server NWN has ever had. I'm not a baby. I grew up on the internet also. I just don't have the energy for any of this nonsense.
shut up clint
This is indeed troubling for me to read. I would like to urge the community to be kind to each other. Nothing else matters if we can't self police and be friendly/amiable on an OOC level.
I've been pretty reluctant to reply to this thread and I'll tell you why.
There is this strange internet tough guy routine in #efu, that even the notion that maybe we should not spew every last thing we're thinking into #efu is absurd. That censoring yourself a bit at least for the sake of maintaining some civility for the less thick skinned or the newer players to give them a positive impression when they stroll into our server for the first time is some kind of admission of tiny-penis-syndrome. I think most of us "vets" should be mature enough by now to vent or say our funny mean things to each other in PMs or in back channels if you really need your fix of the salt mines.
I'm not saying I'm not guilty of it. It's a community norm issue, not an issue with individuals.
What it comes down to is...does it really take that much effort to just not say whatever shitpost thing you want to type into #efu?
It's pretty weird how the tone in #EfU changes when Howlando is logged in vs when he isn't.