1. Increase max number of plants per area
2. Slightly increase plant maturation time
3. Make more areas suitable for planting
Given the robust nature of our server, I think that our planting system can be beefed up a little bit. As it stands, you can plant a seed and then wait a day or two to give it a chance to mature...only to find that someone harvested it right after it sprouted. It's not like this happens every now and then...it happens quite often. Given that new plants have been added recently, it happens even more so. People are content to leave a field of nightshade growing, but butcher any other new plant they find :(
I'm not saying we need hundreds of plants per area, but it gets a bit irritating to find "There are already too many plants in this area" or "This region isn't suitable for planting all the time. With fewer areas to plant, the plants are being crowded in a few spots and then fill up quick.
I am also not advocating super growth, though if there was some way to have a fertilizer to speed growth. Maybe a perk for rangers and druids = their plants grow faster than those planted by others. Just a bit rough to wait a couple of real days to get one plant grown and find nothing.
Areas that are currently not suitable for planting, but not sure why they aren't suitable: West Point, Rugged shore, Ruined Tower, High Cliffs (I think this is the name of the area)
Jungle Soil is actually very poor.
Leave it as it is, but the other suggestions are fine.
It is a sub-tropical island, which means it is not all jungle terrain.
Ah.
Well, that makes sense.
Wouldn't a druid be exactly the person to make a decision like, "There's too much fucking nightshade all over the damn place." Can't you just prune back the overgrowth?
Yep. I already did this to an area, and I am planning on doing it to others.
I have been culling over planting for sometime now. But inevitably, I see a huge patch of some plant or other tucked away in the corner of a map.
I think the assumption is that maxing out the number of plants is best, when really all you need to do is let a handful of plants mature for a while. Then you will have plenty of produce to fuel your needs. 25 of a single plant in one area...planted by a single person is overkill.
Quote from: I can has fun?;108759Can't you just prune back the overgrowth?
The problem lies in over-enthusiastic players getting ahold of an abundance of generic seeds.
Yeah. I have been going to great lengths to find the rarer new plants and plant them in areas where nobody goes. I think the problem is non ranger/druid players thinking OOH NEW PLANT and harvesting the produce first, not the seeds in case they kill it.
I think we need to have the ranger/druid players get a couple of Massive Sacks o'Seeds from the DMs :D.
Quote from: Snoteye;108791The problem lies in over-enthusiastic players getting ahold of an abundance of generic seeds.
Huh?
I'm talking about a PC who throws all the seeds away when they're done pruning. The point is not to collect seeds for planting, but dispose of them permanently.
You are missing the point (by a long shot). You can prune all you want, there will be someone to replace the plants in no time, and there's a good chance they'll be replaced with identical plants because most players are more interested in the actual planting than making sure all plants are represented.
The restriction on the number of plants per area will be maintained as is due to technical limitations.
Your other suggestions will be judged on their merits.
Quote from: Snoteye;108811You are missing the point (by a long shot). You can prune all you want, there will be someone to replace the plants in no time, and there's a good chance they'll be replaced with identical plants because most players are more interested in the actual planting than making sure all plants are represented.
I think you may be missing mine. There is an entire PC class dedicated to the remedy of precisely this problem. My point is that this can and ought to be handled in character. It's a terrific opportunity for conflict.
PCs won't be so eager to play Johnny Appleseed if they run the risk of facing down an angry druid with a cave bear enforcing the balance!
Druids don't exactly outnumber all other classes.
First off, the DM's have done a wonderful job with the planting system. It's a really cool feature in efu that a lot of people ignore or look over. However, I do think a few tweaks could be made. The "overzealous" planters cause problems for the "green thumbs" generally. They put plants in strange places, they plant the same kind of plant over and over again, they harvest blindly without knowing the consequences on the plant, its annoying.
So, why not cut down on who has the ability to work with plants, not just who can "read" the plants, like druids and rangers can. Give non ranger/druid classes a plant failure percentage both in the harvest (ie, you fail to harvest from this plant) and in planting (the seeds fail to take root). This would ensure that at least the majority of plants are coming from the classes in the know.
An alternative idea to this: At some point I recall a DM mentioning that they could add skills into the game. How about a gardening skill? Then you could make it a skill check to work with the planting system.
Restricting it is possible, yes.
Pros; It would force wizards/whoever else to actually interact with druids/rangers in order to experiment with herbalism/alchemy.
Cons ; If it was just a % failure, people would just spam it until they succeed in getting what they want, and kill the plant anyways.
If it was strictly limited to this classes, it would be bad because you can't always find a person o that class who is able/willing to help you.
I was thinking more along the lines of % failure with only one attempt per plant per reset. That possible?
My PC, when he had a garden, used to religiously prune anyone who planted in his area. He was determined to control the plants in the entire area and have a large field of what he needed. He was harvesting for medical supplies.
I generally consider a placeable as a representative of the plants in an area, rather than one placeable = one plant. Why not allow people with seeds (of the same plant), to open up a conversation with the placeable, and add additional seeds to the same placeable? This would increase how much you could harvest from a single placeable based upon how many seeds were planted there.
It would also help with some of the obvious issues of people planting the same plant over and over again right next to each other. People do that because they intend to use the plants and harvest frequently and as much as they possibly can without killing the plant. If you only have one placeable plant, the odds of accidentally killing it during a harvest is high.
With more than one plant, its less risky because even if you lose one, you can still harvest seeds from others and replant it.
In my insignficant opinion, this is an in game issue!
I would think druids are capable of getting to places most people can't reach; small, hidden groves for instance. Then there are big open spaces that see a lot of human traffic. Shouldn't it be an IG initiative to control "farming" practices?
Garem, I think that's true except for one thing. Real farms take an entire season to bring to harvest, and trust that if anyone is planting something on Farmer John's field, he's going to shotgun them in the face for being on his property. The game just functions differently.
In my opinion, classes that can't "farm" should have lots of trouble trying. I mean, put someone like me on an Ohio soy farm and the most useful thing I could do is find a ticket back to New York before I ruin the crop. Why would a rogue or a fighter or even a wizard (unless he specialized in botany) know anything about planting? Still these people end up having just as much influence on the wild and domesticated plants as druids/rangers do in the game world. And in many ways they actually inhibit what druids and rangers are trying to accomplish, which is cool to a degree, everyone loves an obstacle, I just don't get how to justify them being as effective or more at it (because there are so many more of them) then the real farmers are.
That's why I like the idea of a skill check to not only "read" the plants but to also interact with them. With the right combination of skills, you could have a wizard that knows how to farm as well, but they would have to specifically be designed for that, as opposed to knowing what part of the plant is good to harvest or when the seeds are ripe to plant just instinctively.
Make it a conversation option to destroy the plant.
This way, we can live longer when we're trying to remain unspotted doing this by the Leopards.
Why would you destroy the plant by burning it up? When I destroy plants, I always do it by harvesting them to death. It seems a bit wasteful to destroy it for no benefit.
Encumbered walks make for long days.
In an effort to be brief, I misspoke.
Druids/Rangers shouldn't have the problem they seem to be having because they are much more capable of reaching more secretive spots (via stealth, Anim Emp, etc.) than normal people.
As for what you were saying, Panny, I'd think having to learn how to plant by some sort of mechanical factor wouldn't be worth it and might be best left to Roleplaying.
What I was really talking about though was land use and someone, In Game, managing the crops and talking to others who were growing in places near the ziggurat where people often travel to make a sort of co-op to ensure good harvests for everyone. Maybe he could even turn it into an IG business!
Quote from: Thomas_Not_very_wise;108897Encumbered walks make for long days.
I haven't had the chance to harvest any of the new plants, however I do know that some of the older plants weighed 0.0, with their seeds weighing 0.3. I think Nightshade has weight, though.
The server really isn't that big, and many of the hard to reach places are currently not suitable for planting. Also, given different play times, or timezones, it is very possible that the person planting and the person harvesting could never cross paths. Still they can have a large impact on each other depending on the situation and the behavior of one player or another.
Isn't there like, a formula involving druid and ranger levels, that forms how the herb market works?
I'd suggest that many of the people who are participating in annoying planting/harvesting practice are doing so because they are F'ingOIG about a system that is undocumented and thus have little idea what effect they are having or even if they should be interested in herbalism in the first place.
To be honest, I'm trying to find out more about herbalism IG and not having a lot of success. >_>
QuoteI'd suggest that many of the people who are participating in annoying planting/harvesting practice are doing so because they are F'ingOIG about a system that is undocumented and thus have little idea what effect they are having or even if they should be interested in herbalism in the first place.
Gardening
What is gardening?
"Gardening is the practice of growing plants for their attractive flowers or foliage, and vegetables or fruits for consumption. Gardening is a human activity used to produce edible foods and use plants to beautify their local environmental conditions. Its scale ranges: from fruit orchards, to long boulevards plantings with one or more different types of shrubs, trees and herbaceous plants, to residential yards including lawns and foundation plantings, to large or small containers grown inside or outside. Gardening may often be very specific, with only one type of plant grown, or involve a large number of different plants in mixed plantings. It involves an active participatation in the growing of plants and tends to be labor intensive, which differentiates it from farming or forestry."
-- Wikipedia, on Gardening
Arkov's gardening system, which has been in the module in beta form for a little while, is now officially going live. The system allows players to find and grow seeds, and subsequently harvest components from the resulting plants. These components can be used in conjunction with Arkov's recipe crafting system, which is now also live, to produce a range of things such as bags of medicinal herbs and throwing weapons, and even just cooking!
How does gardening work on EFU?
There are a number of plants currently in the module (and likely more to come), such as Theriacal Liverwort, Bluecap Fungus, and Nightshade. These plants all produce "components" that can be harvested as seeds or, in some cases, produce (like liverwort leaves). Seeds can be used to grow new plants, produce can be used with the new crafting system.
Planting
You can only plant seeds in areas suitable for planting, and only a certain minimum distance away from other placeables (like other plants). When you plant a seed, a small patch of dirt appears. After twelve real-time hours, the seed matures into a true plant placeable. The system is fully persistent, so you don't have to worry about resets.
Harvesting
Over time, the plant accumulates above mentioned components. Harvesting a seed grants you one new seed item that can be used to plant a new plant of the same species, decreasing the total component count of the harvested plant. Harvesting produce works in the same way. When the component count reaches zero, the plant dies. The higher the component count, the faster it will increase (up to a maximum, which varies for each plant).
To harvest from a plant, use the plant to initiate conversation. Druids will be informed about how many components the plant currently has; rangers will be informed if only one component remains; and ordinary characters will not be informed at all. There is no limit to how many components can be harvested from a given plant at any one time, aside from that plant's total components (i.e. if you find a plant with 12 components, you can harvest all 12 components -- and kill the plant -- in one go).
Attacking and destroying a plant placeable will kill it without leaving neither seeds nor produce.
Recipe Crafting
The recipe crafting system comprises alchemy (allows arcanists to combine reagents to form grenadelike weapons, powders and elixirs, traps, and material components for spells); herbalism (allows wilderness characters to produce medicinal herb bags, salves, antitoxins, and salutary tonics); consecration (allows holy and unholy characters to infuse the power of their deity into minor religious trinkets and holy water); and cooking (allows creating of simple food items from harvested produce and animal meat). The amount of recipes at the moment is very limited, but this will increase in time.
Each system is fueled by ingredients collected either from harvested plants, dead animals and monsters, treasure, or merchants. These ingredients must be collected and combined with recipes.
Crafting
To use a recipe, you need all of the ingredients as well as two crafting items: the container and the crafting equipment. The container is usually a portable container (like a box or bag), but some placeables have been rigged to work with the system as well.
When you use the crafting equipment on the crafting container when the proper ingredients are in it, you roll a check. If you pass the check, the ingredients disappear and the final product appears. Presto! If you fail the check, the final product doesn't appear. If you fail the check badly, you may lose some of the ingredients.
Checks
The checks are where the systems differ significantly. All of the systems can be used by any PC, except for consecration, which must be done by a faith character: a blackguard, cleric, divine champion, or paladin. On the other hand, certain classes -- and certain types of characters -- are clearly going to have more affinity with certain recipe crafting skills than with others. The checks reflect this by factoring in class levels. Arcane characters should be better with alchemy; nature characters should be better with herbalism; faith characters should be better with consecration; and handy characters should be decent at cooking. All skills used are base ranks only.
Cooking Check: Lore + Concentration + DEX modifier + INT modifier + d20 vs DC.
Alchemy Check: Lore + Spellcraft + INT modifier + Wizard levels + Sorcerer levels + d20 vs DC.
Herbalism Check: Lore + Animal Empathy + WIS modifier + Druid levels + Ranger levels + d20 vs DC.
Consecration Check: Lore + Heal + CHA modifier + Cleric levels + d20 vs DC.
Of course, the real difference lies with the recipes available to each of the four systems. Needless to say, these must be discovered in-game. On that note, please do not spoil the recipes. We may in the future alter the system so that it requires actually learning a recipe, but for now, be nice.
Thank you, Snoteye