[SIZE="2"]I usually shun public posts, but I figured that past there might be other players who share my experience and have some thoughts and insight to offer. If you are just going to construe this as a list of whines and complaints, then I kindly ask you to refrain from commenting. I am just asking for some constructive advice.
The crux of the matter is that I always feel, in one way or the, out of the general loop. I cannot seem to manage to grasp the general feel or plots that are running on the server, nor can I seem to, in some way, involve myself in them.
I’ve tried playing in DMfactions, but I always seem to misunderstand the kernel of the factions’ philosophy and/or agenda and thus I always end up the orthodox outsider or feeling like I am trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. There is certainly nothing wrong with being the orthodox pariah, but it is a rather lonely character to play. I always end up simply feeling frustrated and abandoning the character.
I generally try to engage in conversation with characters I meet. My problem here is three-fold, sometimes I cannot even find other players (despite circling the local haunts), the majority of the time characters will simply run past without responding (or be AFK).
Now, an easy solution to meet other characters would be to make sending for quests, but the embarrassing truth is- I do not know where the majority of the quests are. I can name, perhaps, a handful of the lower-end-quests, but for those higher up on the quest-scale I would simply be unable to lead a group to the quest-giver.
I could certainly also try to organize random expeditions, but they always end up being costly, deadly ventures and I’m an often left with the general impression that people a) had a miserable time of it or b ) thought it was a quest.
I suppose I might also OOCly ask players where people are, but I am rather unnerved by such approaches, because I do not feel I am familiar enough with players to intrude upon their ventures.
What am I missing or failing to do?
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To begin, I think there is a lesson to be had that you originally posted this in the "Off Topic" forum (I intended to move it into the general discussion). It's a subject entirely appropriate for being in General Discussion.
I definitely think this is worth discussing. I'd be extremely happy to try to figure out how to make our major plots more accessible to more players.
I felt like this when I first started off on EFU, it went away as I played through to the middle of EFU:A, and now have it again to some degree in EFU:M, but not as severe- so I hope I can comment helpfully on this:
I think it boils down to a couple issues:
1) High-level players are not very prone to joining player-run factions, with a few very notable exceptions, due to lack of perks and plots offered. This means DM factions are where the main brunt of plots will take place. I dont think this one is fixable.
2) The quests rarely change- there is no real rotation or randomization of available quests. This means a veteran player will be up to level 6 in a day, while it will take a new player a week, due to knowledge of quests.
3) This means that while a experienced player can successfully start a player faction due to their established name and quick leveling, a new player will almost certainly fail. However, new players are more prone to trying to start their own faction, while more skilled players have learned that often the most rewarding time is to be had in a DM faction.
4) This means that at any time, at least 1 in 3 players will be in a DM faction. DM factions tend to, for IC reasons, often keep to their own for quest expeditions. So, for a new, low level, unaffiliated character- finding a questing party is hard, as everyone's either quick-leveled above their heads or are in their own parties.
5) The IRC/Forum/Age of this place means that there is some social separation too- but honestly I think that's not a huge deal and this is by far the most welcoming community I've been in.
Overall- I think it might be part of any PW, and I think while we can work to make the server as welcoming as possible for newcomers, in the long-run the best option is for the player to get as involved as possible so they can feel like part of the server.
I'll just toss out some very basic advice that I've learned over my last couple PC's that (to my mind at least) feels to have drastically increased their involvement.
- Take initiative to seek out PC's of note with reputations that might be able to help you achieve your goals. Inevitably they will want something of you, bam, you're involved.
- Find ways to create "fluff" stuff that can involve PC's with your PC. Ie, being a merchant, brewer, potion crafter, alchemy, herbalism, bard who writes songs about famous PC's, ect. Just something that doesn't take a ton of effort to kill time with other PC's and interact organically.
- Don't be afraid to risk your PC on perma events, that doesn't mean suicidal. You might die, but if you never risk perma death for things that matter to your PC you're going to have a lot of trouble convincing anyone of your PC's dedication, worth and skill to achieve what is important to them.
A lot of it just comes down to luck in being at the right place at the right time saying the right thing. You may be having some difficulty because so many of the plots in motion right now are HYPER SUPER secretive.
Other times you just need to find ways to establish your own personal reputation of some kind before you can get involved in certain plots.
I hope some of this rambling was of some use to you.
I'm going to try my hand at offering some suggestions.
Let us first define a "Plot." For the purposes of EFU and this discussion, let us assume that a "Plot" is some kind of thread of story within the EFU setting that will probably lead to some kind of change.
There are various kinds of plots - player-initiative plots and DM-managed plots.
A player-initiative plot is something that a player comes up with and pursues mostly independently of NPC or DM support. Often times these are the most difficult to make happen, because generally DM support will come either irregularly or when DMs start to get really impressed by what is being accomplished. Sometimes these plots also tend to be quite pvp-intensive. Examples of these player-plots around at the moment are things like - the PC faction "Order of New Netheril," efforts to claim Old Stones as a personal fiefdom, long-term rivalries between different PCs, pursuing Bloodmage or other prestige classes, etc. Getting involved in these kinds of plots is probably as simple as just speaking with the characters involved.
A DM-managed plot is a bit different, and are sometimes more "epic" in scale.
Identifying these is probably the first step, and deciding which ones make sense for your character to get involved with. Probably it also helps to identify the DM who seems to be pushing the plot, and making sure your play-times are congruent.
Using the "Gossips and Rumor" thread is probably a useful tool for identifying what kind of major stuff is going down, or alternatively you could speak with a DM and say, "hey what active plots are being pushed right now?" - I think we'd be happy to share. It's worth noting that plots sometimes take months and months (or even years?) to unfold.
In my next post let's look at some examples...
I had a long winded response ready for you but feel it is best that I simply leave you with this -
You play quality characters (defined, thought out, etc) and interacting with you via roleplay has always been fun. Do not be scared to approach people OOCly with tells or in IRC, and try your best to understand your character's place in the world.
Secondly, identifying plots can be done through the rumor threads most often, and also by whatever you may find interesting via the player posts in public boards or otherwise. If something interests you being run by a player, then join it (if their timezone matches you somewhat) and enjoy! If a DM is doing something you can figure it out via the other mentioned channels and become involved numerous ways (asking them in irc, purely IC, or a combination).
Lastly, understand that EFU is somewhat different than your typical roleplaying environment. This is probably the part I struggle with / whine about the most myself, but really they are telling a story (known already or figured out as they go) and it is -very- hard to change that. What you need to do is to try and decipher the -direction- of things and decide whether or not you want to flow with it or oppose it, and those both have countless options / factions to do it with.
EDIT : They are often quite supportive of both directions if you display effort and flavor!
My primary suggestion on this topic for the DMs would be to evaluate the difficulty of your clues / provided lore concerning the plots and how to interact with them. It is certainly a very fine line between giving it away and not giving away anything, but I have often been a little blindsided by he result or actual direction of things even when directly involved. I imagine that this stems from simply knowing the result and thinking that the clues and lore are obvious when compared to having no knowledge of something and trying to stab at the dark. Give us a few more hints now and then! :)
For my first example, we'll discuss the "Diluvian City" plot. It's finished now, so I won't spoil much by discussing it.
Of course the Diluvian City has existed as part of our setting since the first days of EFU:A, but for most of that time it was in a state of tension: the city was divided between the traditionalist Mythkeepers, the bloodthirsty "Ragers," and the thralls of the mysterious "Veneroida."
ShadowCharlatan began a plot (starting with a prelude) around december of last year with the aim of resolving this tension and establishing what the future of this city will be.
To get involved, players could:
- Join the original prelude (and stick with their PC, as many did not)
- Have a character that was recruited by either side (The Faithful of the Mythkeepers or the Thralls of the Veneroida)
- Have a character that approached these PCs to learn about what was happening below the sea
- Have a character that was associated or allied with another PC that was more directly involved in these happenings
- Once involved, participate or exert influence on the various events that established in which direction the City would go...
- Be present for the amazing resolution, and retire to NPC glory or continue play
Another example -
"A Journey into the Dark" - this was the journey of a dozen or so PCs that took part in an expedition into the Underdark. You were present, yet it seemed like you missed most of the events, so maybe giving some feedback on it would be helpful.
- As you know, PCs were smuggled into Traensyr and provided cloaks that changed their appearance so they could walk around the main trading part of the city. Although most of the gates leading out were blocked or locked, there WAS a secret way that PCs could explore independently of a DM that revealed two other districts of the city that contained a great number of different clues and hints about what was going on down there (unfortunately only one player, as far as I know, saw some of it...)
- There were a lot of events being run by DMs that simply required showing up
- Asking questions from the other PCs about their goals, objectives, etc.
- Asking for a NPC to be possessed for questioning, etc.
The idea being that by collecting different kinds of information, a PC can in some way put together a narrative and theory, put together the puzzle and begin to understand what's going on....
In my next post, I'll discuss some examples of current plots.
I agree with VP to some extent about the difficulty sometimes of discovering clues about lore and server plots. I had never even heard of the "Horn of Ymph" being an actual item until it was basically spelled out via NPC public post. Generally speaking sometimes I get the impression that it's just certain people who know enough stuff OOCly from playing in every faction to put it all together, maybe not directly metagaming, but you can at least make a lot better guesses when you've seen the inside of a lot of factions.
I pretty much never make any kind of lore/scholar type PC's because I simply have no idea how some people get their information. Just feels like it springs out of nowhere to the casual onlooker.
I don't know how you make some of it more accessible without making it too accessible to the people who consistently seem to always put themselves into the position of knowing a great deal about all the most secretive plots.
Two things.
One, there is a LOT of stuff going on in EfU. This is a large part of its charm. We have dozens of very energetic and active players, many of whom have plots large and small going on. If you sometimes feel confused or even intimidated by this, that is perfectly understandable! Many a time I have seen a screenshot or rumour thread and thought, "What in the world? This stuff was going on just next door to me and I never noticed?" And yes, that can be a bit dismaying at times, but I also think it shows just how much effort and love we all put into EfU. Players certainly do not intentionally shut you out -- it is just that there is so much happening that it is easy to feel overwhelmed by it all!
Two, if you would like 'in' on this stuff, the very best way is to ask. Either OOCly in IRC or on the forums or ICly of the characters themselves. We have many good players who are great and helpful people and they are usually happy to help other players out. Occasionally they will be busy, but even then they will gladly come back to you later when they have more time. The forums are as always your friend here; IC letters or OOC queries in the General forum will often bear fruit and lead to later ingame encounters that you can build on.
I'd like to finish with this: you are not alone in feeling lost at times. It has happened to me as well. I have found that the solution almost always lies in asking for a helping hand. That can be hard if you are shy or worried about bothering people, but really, the best of us will always have time for helping you out in making your character fit in.
~tOH.
"The Steps of Sanq" (http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77047)
This is the main plot I'm personally working on at the moment, and I'd be very happy for any player to get involved (in any capacity, including opposition!).
Let me begin by saying that the fate of this plot is not predetermined, and player action can influence significantly in which direction it goes. As an example, the plot is already wildly off track from originally planned.
Finding the "Horn of the Sleeper" (although possible without DM supervision since some of the earliest days of EFU:M) is not something that I expected to have happen, but is certainly an excellent example of how a dedicated player was able to solve a riddle and therefore exert significant influence on the development of the plot.
If you're willing to play a PC that consorts with evil skeletons (not to everyone's taste, I certainly understand) + happy to embrace significant risk, joining the group of PCs pursuing the Steps of Sanq is certainly one option - with access to the forum, I think how to be involved in the plot that way will become very clear.
If you prefer to oppose these PCs, it is again a question of gathering information and identifying other PCs who are in opposition. And then simply reaching out to them, getting in touch, consulting, and coming up with a plan or method of opposing them.
As the famous quote goes, "80% of success is showing up." Although of course we all have restraints on playing time, paying attention to IRC or being available for scheduled events is important (of course) if you wish to have a role in them.
Not being shy, asking for help, becoming affiliated with or associated with other dynamic PCs, contacting the DM pushing the plot - I think trying these things will make for good results.
Putting together puzzles and figuring out lore - this is another thing, maybe worth a second discussion. The truth is that we do make serious effort to disguise and hide some aspects of our setting. I tend to think that figuring things out can be some of the most fun that EFU provides. Balancing secrets for players that surprise me with their capacity for investigation vs. those that struggle with it more is difficult....
Here is an opportunity (http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/showthread.php?p=335232#post335232) for anyone who wants to get involved in things.
Quote from: Vlaid;335223I pretty much never make any kind of lore/scholar type PC's because I simply have no idea how some people get their information. Just feels like it springs out of nowhere to the casual onlooker.
As mysterious as it might seem, pursuing mysteries and uncovering lore is not terribly complicated. It does involve a lot of reading though and most likely a good deal of writing if you want to do it well. Make full use of the awesome in-game library or the forum version of it--how excellent is it that the Curios and Epistles has works from the earlier settings?--and get acquainted with the history of the Shrouded Isles.
You'll also find that the game world itself is littered with hints and facts that can be linked together--thoroughly explore it and pay attention. The scrawlings, the journals lying about, the skeletons worn by time and pretty much all of the objects you can see are more often than not laden with meaning that contributes to the story.
But if you don't want to do anything like that, you can always just find PCs who are involved in such things and chat them up. Oh yes, chatting with PCs is a great source of clues and information regarding the more PC oriented plots and events as well as the larger ongoing metaplot; simply being involved in the setting helps.
Quote from: Howland;335231Putting together puzzles and figuring out lore - this is another thing, maybe worth a second discussion. The truth is that we do make serious effort to disguise and hide some aspects of our setting. I tend to think that figuring things out can be some of the most fun that EFU provides. Balancing secrets for players that surprise me with their capacity for investigation vs. those that struggle with it more is difficult....
I think that is a good point to make. If you discover something big, you may inadvertently spoil the discovery process for the rest of the playerbase. Players come to realise this as well, I think, which may be why some of the more secretive stuff is always kept well guarded within specific factions--the Transcendent Conclave had a great archive, for example, and the Sharantil initiative of keeping secrets secret helped solidify that. This was a good thing though, as it did encourage people to join the faction, which in turn encouraged involvement in the setting.
With that said, it is important to realise that individual characters are also contributing to the lore and that not everything is predetermined by DM controlled NPCs. Which is where I will quote the glorious, VanillaPudding:
QuoteThis is probably the part I struggle with / whine about the most myself, but really they are telling a story (known already or figured out as they go) and it is -very- hard to change that. What you need to do is to try and decipher the -direction- of things and decide whether or not you want to flow with it or oppose it, and those both have countless options / factions to do it with.
Quote from: Rimmeke;335209I generally try to engage in conversation with characters I meet. My problem here is three-fold, sometimes I cannot even find other players (despite circling the local haunts), [COLOR="Red"]the majority of the time characters will simply run past without responding[/COLOR] (or be AFK).
This is sad, but a common enough occurrence that should be avoided wherever possible. I encourage people to interact with PCs who are making an effort to interact with your PC. This is in fact one reason why we set our characters to walk rather than run while in town (at the bare minimum)--to encourage interaction.
Many great responses to this thread, it speaks at length of the quality of the player-base. I'll just add a point : persistence is key, and carries its own reward.
I'd also encourage playing as a side-kick, some players out there are outright stellar, and there is much to learn on how to push goals and agendas by providing them with much needed assistance and observing them along the way. Side-kicks can be truly excellent characters, and even overshadow the leader in their aura ! For this purpose, it helps to get in touch with players of a faction/group you'd like to fit in prior to making your character - directions never hurt !
Quote from: Howland;335230Not being shy, asking for help, becoming affiliated with or associated with other dynamic PCs, contacting the DM pushing the plot - I think trying these things will make for good results.
This is fine advice, but I've seen almost the exact opposite of it sometimes, at least as far as contacting DMs or asking for help is concerned. I sometimes feel as if I'm screaming into the wind whenever I work up the courage to ask something on the DM channel or talk to them on IRC, and the general philosophy when I even get a reply seems to be "help yourself first, then we'll help you."
And I'm unsure what exactly "helps," besides pushing plots and interacting with big name PCs, which I do, but it all seems to rope back around towards needing the DMs to get a particular thing done, which -in my experience- is damned hard to do.
This is probably for a bunch of reasons, like time zone differences, being too busy, my PC simply not being interesting enough to warrant investment in (conspiratorial as hell, I know, but it's the impression I tend to get, whether manufactured in my own head or true,) but the silence is just generally dispiriting, and I find myself merely making plans that go nowhere because I can't get the necessary oversight to accomplish them, or it's judged by others (PCs or otherwise) that they're not worth helping out with, for one reason or another.
And when I plan with other PCs, they either die or their own plans get paralyzed for such-and-such reason, while the plans of opposing factions (I hate to make that sound competitive) seem to be moving at a break neck pace. I'm unsure if maybe some factions are just getting more love at the moment cause of their current roster of PCs or what, but mine at least doesn't seem to be really going -anywhere.- It's not as bad as it was for my last PC, whose faction literally floundered for months before apparently dying, but it's not great either.
But yeah, I don't mean to make this sound bitter, it just feels like a constant uphill battle that I feel clueless on how to effect positively.
Quote from: Pelorean;3352121) High-level players are not very prone to joining player-run factions, with a few very notable exceptions, due to lack of perks and plots offered. This means DM factions are where the main brunt of plots will take place. I dont think this one is fixable.
Rare, but I've seen player factions work fantastically - the Gilded Arrows, to name one I've been a part of and seen go to great heights.
but bro theres quests to smash
Show yourself to be interesting or proactive, or hopefully both, and we will facilitate your desire to tell a cool story.
QuoteRare, but I've seen player factions work fantastically - the Gilded Arrows, to name one I've been a part of and seen go to great heights
The Brotherhood of Mercy, aswell.
QuoteThis is fine advice, but I've seen almost the exact opposite of it sometimes, at least as far as contacting DMs or asking for help is concerned. I sometimes feel as if I'm screaming into the wind whenever I work up the courage to ask something on the DM channel or talk to them on IRC, and the general philosophy when I even get a reply seems to be "help yourself first, then we'll help you."
I am guessing this relates to pushing PC initiatives. If you're trying to push a plot on your own, it will be harder, and does require demonstrating success on your own. DMs are limited with time and energy, and we can't rush to help out every player's effort, but certainly if we see something really cool most of us are happy to try to help.
If I were to guess, I'd guess that the plot that inspired this comment is something to do with grain trade with Caermyn and the Order... but here's the thing: grain plots make me, and probably most DMs, start to fall asleep... surely there's more exciting stuff out there to deal with?
I wouldn't have pursued it at all if a DM hadn't explicitly called attention to it - my PC ran with it cause he's a diplomat and negotiator. That's his thing - he doesn't cause conflicts, he tries to mend them... which, hilariously enough, is the antithesis of this server's philosophy on what "fun" is.
(The DMs weren't really the problem there, by the way. I mean, maybe a little, but it took everyone forever to get back to my character on what should have been a really simple matter.)
The current grain plot has ran into a brick wall for other reasons which I won't get into here.
I do not think it is fair to say that this server's philosophy is that mending conflicts is boring. Sounds kind of cynical to me. We can discuss these concerns privately.
Sure - I use the "Erwin" handle on IRC.
Edit: never mind, apparently it's Ryan now
Quote from: Ryan;335275That's his thing - he doesn't cause conflicts, he tries to mend them... which, hilariously enough, is the antithesis of this server's philosophy on what "fun" is.
And without conflict to mend, what would they do then?
Conflict comes in so many forms. The pursuit of remedy itself will give birth to offshoot issues, which in turn provides something to engage with. I've found you don't have to exactly achieve a goal if the pursuit of that perhaps unachievable goal is a source of continuous intrigue or excitement.
My advice is to not get caught up in nursing progress. Surely pursue it, but be ready to review what you're trying to achieve and reinvision it if it doesn't seem to be working out. You may find most of your experiences more rewarding that way. Creativity is your only limit.
You need allies and playing orthodox characters hurts that.
Play the sort of amoral opportunist who fits in anywhere and it is much easier. Or someone willing to lower themselves to the level of others for gains.
Very few characters consistently stand for something. They do so selectively, when it suits them or when they're grandstanding for a dm.
Having an uptight or honorable character is just about impossible so maybe you should try something a bit more easy going.
Quote from: Nihm;335297Having an uptight or honorable character is just about impossible so maybe you should try something a bit more easy going.
Pulling this off in its own right seems like it'd be rewarding, though, in more ways than one!
I find that amoral opportunists are good chillout PCs, but putting a set of consistent rules or plot hooks in place for a PC gives to a reason to do stuff. For example, EfU has had a number of successful Paladins, and they are PCs who have horrible mechanical penalties for compromising their principles. Also, playing a character with A Cause gives you an automatic ally pool of people with similar Causes. Principles BTW don't have to make you Good or Lawful or anything. Captain Harrison was a pirate who steadfastly avoided killing as a point of principle. I played a Jergali Scrivener who *could* animate the dead, had all the skills for it but only did it under what she considered dire circumstances. Several PCs have stuck to their deals and threats, building a reputation on it as both trustworthy and frightening. Putting some form of principle on your PC gives you things to deal with rather than just Quest Loot Numbers Go Up, and extra roleplay if you are forced to compromise it to survive, or for a greater belief. It's especially good if your point of principle is unexpected based on your PC's image.
I find one of my biggest RP roadblocks is running in to PCs that stand for something so uncompromisingly they avoid The Dreaded Character Development at all costs and are immune to diplomacy, which is another way of saying Immunity: Roleplaying :P.
One thing I'd mention to the DMs about Grain Plots Etc is that if you create a problem with the server, players will want to solve it and they'll even enjoy solving it in an obvious way. I understand that it's more fun to watch a PC try and solve a famine by HUNTING THE GREAT WHITE WHALE OF YMPH AND SALTING ITS CARCASS rather than negotiate a grain deal, but if logical solutions don't work, you're left with confused players wondering why someone else got the glory for a really dumb (IC) idea.
What may seem cool and fun for one player, the DM team may think is stupid, boring, a waste of time. Being ignored or not helped because what you find fun about EFU doesn't fit the PvP / MAJOR CONFLICT WILL RESULT FROM THIS EPIC THING mold is something that has put me off greatly. I remember when EFU was less about PvP and what will come and more about delving into dungeons and lore, just because. Sometimes, some things have simple solutions and sometimes a small little boost, talk, or even tiny favor from a DM that would take a mere 5 minutes can make ALL the difference.
That said, the most important thing I find, which I am also 100% guilty of is STAYING WITH ONE CHARACTER and NOT QUITTING from aggravation. Also no alternate characters helps. Just talk to everyone and make friends or enemies. Take people on quests or explore, be active. I think it's as simple as that. Put yourself out there!
I think a lot of the cynical viewpoints expressed here are sort of self-fufilling prophecy unto themselves. When you believe nothing happens without "DURP MASSIVE PERMA DEATH AND PVP DM CONSPIRACY RAILROADS ECT", you stop trying to push your stuff in your way, you stop believing it's possible....and there you go. You end up right where you expected you would.
I myself have at times fallen victim to these sort of player cynicisms that you see espoused in many of these posts....but I feel the more you can keep them out of mind, the more likely you are to overcome them and prove they are entirely wrong and inspire other players to do the same.
Sometimes it's just hard for players to admit, or for anyone to say to you directly, that you just aren't doing much to push your agenda and interests, that you aren't doing so in any interesting way that people can get on board with, and that you shouldn't expect advancement in the way you are pushing things. If what you are doing isn't working, try something different. Don't take it as a personal insult that you suck or everyone is out to get you or something.
I think the key to getting involved in plots is flexibility and determination.
Flexibility in terms of allowing your character to be affected and changed by the plots currently occurring around him/her. Fact of the matter is, because of the nature of plots (i.e., the plots generally being bigger than the characters involved in them), it's much more likely that your character will need to change (maybe a little, maybe a lot) to become involved with a plot more than the plot will change before appealing to your character.
While flexibility will enable you to get involved in plots, it's determination that'll make it happen. I think the simplest way is to just talk: "Hey, what's going on? Has anything interesting happened in the village today? Do you know anything about [insert rumour post here] and who's involved with it?"
Yes, the nature of a persistent world means this can require a huge investment in time before you meet the right person and strike the right conversation, but I think it's still the most direct and quickest way to get involved, i.e., "This plot sounds relevant to my interests." "This is a person I know who is involved in the plot." "This is where/when I can find him."
Sometimes this'll be simple if the plot's more open and general and a bunch of people are openly involved. Other times, if say, you're trying to get involved in a villainous/secret group of people, there'll be a few hoops you'll have to get through, though these hoops are IC.
Quotethe majority of the time characters will simply run past without responding
I think this is simply inexcusable if it's the case of your inquiring character being OOCly ignored. It doesn't take much effort to type out [This person ignores you like a jerk] before continuing on walking.
Anyway, if you see Clara Smogson IG, talk to her. She's a chatterbox (unless she's running for her life).
Rimmeke, I always enjoy playing with you. Even when we're butting heads like back in the WW days. I've always found that you like to cloister yourself away and sometimes it feels like you're actively hiding from what's around you. Not all the time! We've had epic conversations on server lore, gathering little tidbits and comparing notes.
I honestly believe there are three different ways to gain attention on escape from undeath.
[INDENT]1.) When the Spotlight of Attention is focused on your neck of the woods (either by you putting yourself there, or by PCs/DMs coming to you)... Act. Push the boundaries, have fun, but only do what is or could be in character. I'm not saying that everyone should be acting out when DM's are around, but holding back or being shy about what's going on certainly isn't going to draw that attention to you.
I should note, that doing this when other influential PCs are around is exactly the same thing. Those that seem to have the power in efu, tend to employ it in places where their attention is drawn. That power manifests into action which we then involve ourselves and roleplay within. It does not always have to be conflict. But bravery / some risk is always necessary.
2.) Have FUN. If you can entertain yourself and others around you, people will want to play with you. If you are having Fun, then its all good. If you aren't then you need to change your style to see if perhaps another one is better suited for you. Not faction, not theme, but style. Loner Rover scout bores you? Don't just jump into a stargazer. Try someone that wants to BEND the World to their Will, etc.
3.) Be consistent, but allow yourself to evolve alongside the other characters around you. Personally I love keeping track of my character's emotional states / vulnerabilities because it helps inform a consistent play style to which other characters and DMs can recognize. This recognition is essential as it tells them what they can expect, and thus react accordingly. Also it allows you to know when your character will BREAK, when they will just flip out and react badly to a situation. Wearing these changes through emotes contributes to a greater detail that often draws others people. As well, search for others doing this too. ( not everyone is afk or ignoring you, I promise )
The ability for a character to change, adapt, or make rash decisions is essential. When you notice yourself being a pariah, Act. Have your character approach others (enemies or the allies keeping you at arms reach) and force a confrontation. During these confrontations you have the opportunity to see what is keeping them away from you. You can try to change for the better, to abandon (slowly) a fear or uncertainty and put trust or faith in the other character's agenda. You can attempt to change the other character by being persuasive. And finally you can turn against the faction or inter faction group that is treating you in this way and see it as a personal insult. Then you can dedicate your time into having conflict with them, speaking against their beliefs, teaching your own, zapping them, or otherwise put yourself in a struggle for dominance. These are fine now and then, >_> but change is more often the way to go. Just know where to draw the line.Its okay for a character to fail, or to die. Try to enjoy that part too.
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If you dont know the server, take a moment, and learn the paths. Find the quests. Write them down! Take notes, directions, etc. The quests are fairly static, so you really only need to do this once and then go to them a few times to get it down pat. If you forget where it is, do a sending saying a there are horrible rumours of such and such going on, you wish to gather a group to pursue them. You need someone that knows where these issues can be found, and others willing to put sword to task. etc. ( sending only draw the currently free players within the level limitation, sometimes there just isn't enough. )
Anyhow, Good Luck. You can always grab me on irc.
Quote from: Howland;335274If I were to guess, I'd guess that the plot that inspired this comment is something to do with grain trade with Caermyn and the Order... but here's the thing: grain plots make me, and probably most DMs, start to fall asleep... surely there's more exciting stuff out there to deal with?
In the past Grain has been a primary motivator that have hamstrung any events around it to which does not deal with the issue in some way. Most players are also bored with the idea of dealing with grain.
However, if an emphasis is placed on the lack of it, starving people, food shortages, factions being told by npcs to do something about it. Then whomever put that into the module needs to allow for some sort of solution, or at least make it clear that there isn't one in an IC way. I cannot imagine it would take too much time to for an npc to say, we dont have enough grain for anyone else other then here.
-- OR --
You can put a very expensive grain bundle item at the port, and let players Buy them and bring them to *donation* boxes at certain places around the module. This would remove the need for DM's oversight, as well as allow players that are interested in using food resources to RP doing this. If the DMs keep a counter, they might see a consistent and interesting way to show change with but a single post. There is also the idea of finite food, where the totals for an area can be compared with the totals of the other areas to determine the % of food. Which could be repped by NPC dislogue saying why are these people getting food and not Us.
Sorry... Tangent.
I'm not an expert. I'd say my last PC is the most involved I've ever managed to get without luck.
I'm not sure how to tell you what you need to hear, Rimmeke, so I'll tell you what worked for me.
For the first several months that I played Scrave I had no goals and no direction, except to be a huge buffoon and challenge people in bizarre, made-up competitions. Duels, tournaments, thumb-war -
I once logged in to IRC once and grabbed ScottyB while he was around. I said "Hey, ScottyB, you should help me run a boulder-throwing contest. All I need is an @area to hold it, with 10 meter markers, and a couple of single-use items of greater bull strength so that anyone can compete. I'll handle the rest." He was thrilled to help, and what came of it was a really fun and memorable event that I think people really enjoyed.
I just took what somebody said before, "If you want a DM's attention, make it so we practically can't say no."
Another time, I grabbed Dash and told him "I need supplies, so here's an idea for a cool dungeon crawl. We'll say Scrave found this place out in the desert, a tomb of some ancient bedine warlord, and he wants to plunder it but needs help." I gave him some other cool fluff, a background for the Boss, a thematic hook for him to go off of. Basically did a good chunk of the creative work, and Dash said "Cool, I needed an event where I can drop this plot relic for some of my other players, so this'll work great."
That stuff is all less about getting involved, than it is about making your own fun, though.
After I did those things, I took a break, and when I came back, I decided that I want to actually get involved. I love exploring the server, seeing new areas, and figuring out awesome secrets.
I know that the best way to get DM attention is to have other cool people around, and the great news is that almost everybody who plays EfU these days is amazing.
So what I did, every day that I could log in, for the past couple weeks, was go straight to Muskroot, and make a sending. "Scrave ventures out to the Withered Lands in search of forgotten knowledge and powers. He invites courageous and clever companions to join him."
Two things held true every time I made this sending:
1) Somebody would always show up.
2) I would always follow through on the expedition.
Mostly I used the Bastian Gallenheart maps to set a destination. When I couldn't, I'd ask other people where they wanted to go. If they didn't have a cool idea, then I would take them to places that I know exploration areas spawn a lot. The North coast, the Bog tunnels, the Underdark, the Morass, , Old Port, or Nebezzdos. Basically, anyplace dangerous, and steeped in mystery.
Eventually, I started getting repeat companions. People who enjoyed the expeditions and always wanted to be present. So I wound up with a proper questing group. They wanted to get me involved in their plots, and my answer was always "Yes".
Pretty soon I had people showing me incredibly secret places that are basically unknown by 98% of everybody. We would talk, and craft theories about what and why things are how they are.
Soon I was developing goals organically; Gather the Stargazer totems, summon and speak with a Mist Dragon, get a better answer than helping the Nightrisers... Of course things didn't work out like that, but on the way I found myself questing with a purpose other than XP and supplies, which was getting me out to the obscure parts of the server in itself.
I guess what I'm saying is: don't be shy. Get out of Mistlocke and do cool stuff. Don't worry about XP, or supplies. That's what you're going out there to get - exploration areas are great for those things, and they've often got secret lore to find, too.
I guess the best answer I can offer you is to figure out what's fun for you, and then make it happen. Don't wait for somebody else to make your fun for you, or you'll find yourself wandering around the regular haunts, listening in on conversations and being bored and lonely.
There's so much about EfU that's good right now, it'd be a shame for anybody to be kept out of the loop, especially when pretty much everyone is playing phenomenally well.
You want to get in the loop? Log in riiiight about now... (as of 11pm GMT 20 May 2013)
Now that's some solid advice.
Get in the loop or die. -- Canzah
I can relate, I often feel totally lost, even when I'm "involved" in a faction or a plot. I know a big part of it is I just don't have the time to devote to playing. So things happen when I'm not around and I'm left playing catch-up every time I log in. The feeling sometimes gets over whelming and I log off and sulk.
But, I have found, if I find other characters / players that I truly enjoy playing with, be it RP'ing or Questing, I don't so much mind not knowing everything that is going on.
I would advise finding your niche, that one thing about EFU that brings you back time and time again. For me part of what I love is the ever changing world. The new characters to get to know, the places to see, etc. Don't worry about the Big plots, if you get involved great, if not find something you enjoy anyway.
There are a lot of smaller groups you can join right now that will instantly thrust you into some of the plots going on. Two right off the top of my head are the Summer and Winter Courts of the Fey.
1.) Don't be afraid to get your character killed. Take risks. Sometimes they don't pay off, and your labour of love disappears into the ether, but sometimes they pay off in spades, in this character or the next. Not saying you have to be suicidal, just know that every character will die. This is ymph, no one gets out of here alive.- Well Some have, but I digress.
2.) This took me years to learn. Play 1 character. No alts. IF you get bored, frustrated, whatever, take a break, and come back, the server is populated by amazing and dynamic players and DMs's much like the weather, if you are not satisfied, just give it a few days, it will change. Nothing stays the same here for long! The longer your character is around, the more he/she/it will become known, by deed, reputation, or longevity. Alts, I think, are the bane of a characters development, at least from my experience.
3.) Timezones. Be aware of them. I miss a ton of cool events, due to mine, but I also have some great DMs that flesh out my play time. Find folks who play in your regular tz and plot with them, concept, create! I am lucky enough to freelance for work, so I sporadically hit just about every TZ depending on my sleeping habits that week. I have only ever seen the server empty once or twice and it lasted mere minutes. Use IRC, PMs, Tells, whatever, don''t shy away from a little OOC coordination. It can go along way in game.
I hope that helps. Also, take a page from Sylvrdragon- do what you like to do! IF your not having fun, you might want to switch things up, try a different angle, etc.
FFS- wrote alot more then I intended..I hope some of it is usefull.
Something that I've always felt to be true, and has been stated before, is that you must do what you have fun doing...period. Don't do what you think will most impress the DMs, do what's fun for you. Create the character you want to play and play them to the hilt, without worrying too much about success or achieving your goals.
This is the way you get involved because if you're having fun then your character will reflect that. It will be more dynamic and enjoyable to be around, and if people want you around you'll find yourself in demand and in the middle of plots.
Fun is contagious, so have fun and it will rub off on others.
Firstly, I’d like to thank you all for kind words andencouragement on the forum and on IRC. You’ve all offered tons of advice andsuggestions (admittedly, I cannot utilize all of them, for example, I cannot in good conscience log on at midnight for an event and appear on work with amassive gaming-hangover), which I’ve studied and written down ( along withmetropakt’s solid advice of never running into combat).
I think there is a difference, though, of knowingabout plots- one can freely read about a lot of them on the forum- and being able to find a fitting group to hang with/pursue plots with. It seems to me that I’ve too often ended up a solitary figure, no matter what goals or concepts I have tried tofollow. I’m not seeking others to entertain me, but however much I like the character I play- in the end this game is (for me) about playingwith others- because playing alone is not fun.
I’ve been fortunate enough that Howland’s taken time to give me excellent hints and advice on what/how to play- so I hope that, thistime, I shall not err. Thanks again for all your kind words!
For starting out in EfU as it pertains to your specific concerns, here is my advice:.
1. Roll up a PC, I'm talking build here. Keep personality very general and don't worry about goals.
2. Stick with this PC for more than a week. Allow encounters to begin to shape his/her personality. This is growth. You do not need to spring fully formed right out of the start area. Take note of the PCs who seem to be played consistently (as in, staying power). Of those PCs, take note of who is currently "prominent", seems to be involved in and driving plots (which may simply look like busy/leaving town a lot and vocal) and plays when you do.
3. Of those prominent PC's, decide which ones your PC could stand behind.
4. Minion/sidekick it up.
There are a few very public and lasting prominent PCs you could make a sidekick for without even playing the guessing game... those in politics, the great druid, etc.
Often there are way too many wannabe chiefs and not nearly enough indians. By playing a sidekick you will get involved with plots and better learn the ins and outs of how EfU works. Inevitably you will get to know the player you are minioning for and when they learn you are new and trying to figure it all out, they will take you under their wing and happily help you along on your journey. If they don't, they suck and you should find someone more awesome to minion for.
See who plays regularly at your playtime. Get in touch with the OOCly to try to organize events with them. If you don't have a regular group it's harder to play. Try not falling into the reverse: playing only with OOC buddies and ignoring others. Take into account what others want, too, and how their PCs may fit with you goals.
This is a really great thread. For the past year, I've been on and off with EfU due to my personal circumstances. I've often felt cut off from the plots, even as a DM, in the first few days of returning. I think the best advice for getting 'in the loop' is just to interact with anyone and everyone you see. Ask questions, OOC and IC, read the forums, and just generally chase interaction! Interaction always leads somewhere... and with my most recent return, I'm going to be doing a lot more of this!