: if EFU could find a way to make Chain Shirts into Light armor, like in 3.5 rules, that would be amazing
: Possibly cheat by applying two-handed and ambidexterity to chain shirt when a ranger dons it :S
: It sounds like one of those things you could put on the suggestion forum and risk actually having implemented :S
: Have dual-wield "work" on chain shirt armor.
+1
Yes, please.
Would be nice
I would like to again draw attention to this seemingly wonderful idea.
Or just give Rangers +1 AC Studded Leather Armor like Barbarians tend to get DR Loinclothes.
<_<
Rangers are sick. One feat away from ridiculousness. I think they'll be fine. I also speak from experience.
Rangers are great, but it's mostly the 2h or sword and shield rangers that are great. Those who dual-wield tend to be less-played and weaker. Lower AB, low damage on off-hand, almost requiring exotic...
A little boost to dual-wielding rangers would be nice. :)
I tend to multiclass ranger rather than go pure >_> I think this would be a good bonus for the PURE ranger rather than people with 1 level thereof.
"Rangers are sick" ? Perhaps I missed some aspects of the class, but it is flawed on many points I think. It's one of the classes with the largest selection of class skills, yet it only has 4 skill points per level up instead of 6. Marksmanship is not as interesting as it should be, and there is the famous chain shirt case discussed here. I also find it strange that a class that relies on dexterity for armor class does not has a feat like evasion. (like the barbarian) On the top of that, several classes like warriors and barbarians gets perks. Of course we're all entitled to have our own opinions, but I think (pure) rangers does need a little boost, in one way or another.
+1 damage, spot, listen and taunt per five levels (+2 at level 5, +3 at 10) +1 AB per two class levels to favored enemy, +4 Hide/MS, +4 Spot/Listen/Search at 5, move speed increases. Archers and dual-wielders tend to be weaker than their sword and shield or 2h weapon counterparts, but there is no one better than a ranger at stealth.
That said, I restate that a little boost to dual-wielders would be nice, and honestly this is only a little boost.
Take a single barbarian level and you've just replaced 6 levels or druid/ranger speed improvement. Nothing to encourage a pure class character there. Stealth bonus is nice, but it's not working in every wilderness area (or it is shown on the character sheet only from time to time?) For the Spot/Search bonus at level 5, I don't what you are talking about.
Stealth is nice, but if the marksmanship and dual-wielding weapons options are not interesting, the pure ranger class is but a spy. Spying is nice, but this isn't the whole thing about rangers. So yeah, an improvement in either armour or fighting capacities would balance things out.
I think this is about style as much as mechanical advantage. You can buff up leathers, you COULD make +1 leathers more common or give Rangers a +1 AC in all leathers like Barbarian Armour of the Wilds from one of the perks. However, a pair of axes and a chainmail shirt is a great ranger archetype.
I played a dual-wield ranger who then changed his weapon loadout entirely because he got a really nice DM loot chainshirt. You COULD give rangers a scripted +1 AC in all leathers, but this sounds cooler. Though you're still in a poor place relatively speaking relying on DEX as a ranger when you don't get Uncanny Dodge. One reason why fullplate rangers are so good. You get the free Improved Two-Weapon Fighting at 9, you get divine spells and detect, etc.
Sorry, I did not expect this to explode into a discussion about how powerful rangers are or aren't.
I do not think it would be massive balance concern to be able to use an armor with +1 more AC than studded leather and retain dual wield abilities, as you have relatively low AC as it is dual wielding. Especially when you consider than in 3.5 rangers get this anyway and is widely viewed as a good change.
It's mostly a stylistic preference...for me at least.
I think dual-wielding concepts could certainly use the boost.
I see your points. I would be for PURE ranger perks, like barbs, fighters and rogues get. I've still never felt limited in the slightest playing a ranger in EfU, though. AE, when used well, is incredibly powerful. I had a char that used to specifically find powerful animals and AE them, just to tank with him. Plus you get divine spells and wand/scroll use. I guess I'm 'Meh'. Not against, not really for.
Yeah, I'd make it similar to how rangers work in 3.5. Dual wield focused ranger, or archer ranger. Both should be perks for pure class, and perhaps the dual wield would gain what's suggested here, and the archer guy some bonuses for shooting. :)
3.5 definitely vastly improved rangers. Fort & Reflex high, 6 skill points per level, combat styles, evasion...
Aside from any mechanical debate, chainshirts look 100000x cooler than studded leathers, which have universally awful models.
Add improved two weapon fighting at L6, and greater at L9 as in 3.5 - this would give a welcomed boost to those rare dual-wielders :-)
This, really, really would be cool!
That.... would be terrifying, Pentaxius. Double weapons are already really nasty because you can buff both ends, and this would multiply those. The issue with dual wield I've found is the huge expense in buffs for a comparatively minor advantage if you're not using a double weapon, and double weapons are not finesseable. Compare it to double weapons or Monks with flurry of blows, both of which only need to apply one set of buffs. Dual light weapons is more of a Rogue thing as you get your Sneak Attack damage with the offhand too.
I'm with Vlaid though, if Rangers got bow perks in Light armour and chainshirts it would let them compete with Sneak Attacks/Fighter archery perk/Bard Song.
With the right Favoured Enemy you can be devastating as it deals with the AB loss and adds more damage to both hands, but outside of that you're a bit crap. Which is why there are so many FE Human/Halfling/Undead Rangers as those comprise the majority of EfU enemy types in both PVE and PVP. I'd be all for lowering the power of Favoured Enemy in favour of giving more varied bonuses. It would tone down the piss-taking Favoured Enemy Human 18 STR Improved Disarm Greatsword Fullplate Rangers who spend all their time in the city.