EFUPW Forums

EDIT:
tl;dr: Please add some short quests with LOW XP reward but decent healing or money reward so that getting your supplies busted at L9 is not a Death Spiral or leads to hiding in town.


Since Purple Crystal Mines was made 3-8, there's no longer any short quests if you hit L9. There's Tower of Mercy arguably, but last I saw it was limited to 10 runs max per PC. I had another go at Trolls last night so I could do something along with a couple of L9 PCs and the loot does seem to have taken a hit. I'm scratching my head as where I can still take IC allies.

• Orcs 2: Needs the Orcs 1 Map, long. No pay.
• Tower of Mercy: Take limit.
• Kant's: Faction NPC Questgiver (Conclave), long, harsh.
• Trolls: Seems to have got worse for loot, no pay. But doesn't require a total crushteam.
• Lizardmen: Unless it got buffed it's now missing the pay that used to be the best reason for doing it, long, mobs no longer drop healing.
• Old Stones Rent Collection: Amazing quest, good payout... but Old Stones.
• Mist Ogres: Pretty nice, but really long and tough.
• Coral Cove: Very long, few PCs have any idea how to get to it, crushes non optimal teams.
• Hive: Doesn't actually crush a non-optimal team, can still challenge a good team, decent loot. Hooray! But no pay, and quite long.
• Defense of the Bogs: 3-8, horrendous Withering

So this of course leads to weird stuff like PCs who don't like the Conclave at all doing Kant's because it might be tough but the healing's good and there's pay. Or suddenly, everyone's a merchant. The problem with only having Long Badassed Quests is that high level PCs can't hit something else to get back the basic supplies they lost trying the big ones. Or take faction rookies along without expecting them to get rolled. Or just go and hit a quest because it's fun, rather than sticking IG for 2 hours to do one. Hive's being spammed a lot because it's the only one that's often profitable, has no restrictions IC or OOC and won't just lolmurder lower levels.

The invasions, trade routes etc are nice, but it would be really good to see some "less epic" quests with a wide level range. Stuff with lower risk and lower reward than the high-end stuff, that you can do if supply drained or as a faction team of all levels. otherwise it's just Advantage: Crushteams.

Quote from: Egon the Monkey;303546Since Purple Crystal Mines was made 3-8, there's no longer any short quests if you hit L9. There's Tower of Mercy arguably, but last I saw it was limited to 10 runs max per PC. I had another go at Trolls last night so I could do something along with a couple of L9 PCs and the loot does seem to have taken a hit. I'm scratching my head as where I can still take IC allies.

• Orcs 2: Needs the Orcs 1 Map, long. No pay.
• Tower of Mercy: Take limit.
• Kant's: Faction NPC Questgiver (Conclave), long, harsh.
• Trolls: Seems to have got worse for loot, no pay. But doesn't require a total crushteam.
• Lizardmen: Unless it got buffed it's now missing the pay that used to be the best reason for doing it, long, mobs no longer drop healing.
• Old Stones Rent Collection: Old Stones.
• Mist Ogres: Pretty nice, but really long and tough. No pay.
• Coral Cove: Very long, few PCs have any idea how to get to it, crushes non optimal teams.
• Hive: Doesn't actually crush a non-optimal team, can still challenge a good team, decent loot. Hooray! But no pay, and quite long.

So this of course leads to weird stuff like PCs who don't like the Conclave at all doing Kant's because it might be tough but the healing's good and there's pay. Or suddenly, everyone's a merchant. The problem with only having Long Badassed Quests is that high level PCs can't hit something else to get back the basic supplies they lost trying the big ones. Or take faction rookies along without expecting them to get rolled. Or just go and hit a quest because it's fun, rather than sticking IG for 2 hours to do one. Hive's being spammed a lot because it's the only one that's often profitable, has no restrictions IC or OOC and won't just lolmurder lower levels.

The invasions, trade routes etc are nice, but it would be really good to see some "less epic" quests with a wide level range. Stuff with lower risk and lower reward than the high-end stuff, that you can do if supply drained or as a faction team of all levels. otherwise it's just Advantage: Crushteams.

Sinister Enclave scales well.

There is enough open world content to profitably explore with allies now... I am level 11 and feel like I can reliably find activities / battles / random events for my allies.

Mist ogres has loot AND pay.

You don't even list all the high level quests.

Zalturo, withered bandit camp, defense of the bogs all fit the bill.

Quest balancing needs tweaking for certain.

Quite a feat to bring along a full muster team to sunken enclave, with very disparate levels. It worked really well in the end, a truly epic quest.

On a more general note, I find that the server could benefit from another short quest for characters in the 9+ level range, with a loot level similar to the crystal caves - just for the sake of re-supplying in healing trinkets.

Harriet clearly needs to take the Muster on more quests!  XD

Being high level is about more than crushing quests.  If you don't have time to do a quest why not roleplay or explore or involve other players things.  I love to quest and I know how hard it can be to quest after 8-11 but it can be done.  Join factions, make friends.  I think adding small short quests so people can just spam them and more of them per reset then become L10 and be relatively unknown to anyone except his quest buddies, is not something I want to see.

To me, this seems less about spamming to reach level 10, and more about trying to maintain a supply cache large enough to survive large DM events, the harsher of the high level quests, and explorations into the farther reaching more dangerous realms of the server, that don't really pay out in supplies what they cost.

In lower levels resupplying is relatively easy. In higher levels, it's very very hard. Which seems backwards.

The fewer supplies you have, the less likely it is you're going to take a group of people out exploring dangerous and far reaching areas.

But what if i feel like questing, r if i'm drained of supplies, and i have a high level character and i don't have 29384 hours to spare? From what i've seen, many players on EFU have a lot of time to spare and don't mind 3-4 hour game sessions, but not all of us can have that luxury.

Last time i did a long quest, that was the broodhive quest, it took like 3 and a half hours, and i barely managed to sprint to my duties after that.

Quests aren't the only things that give supplies. Depending on the difficulty, randoms can also give great supplies and XP. You just need to find them. They tend to be very short, but also rather brutal, and there's no level cap, so a level 11 can go smash one with two level 7's, if they so chose.

You don't need to quest at level 9. Please figure out something else to do.

I think the idea is that once you're 8+ if you want to get supplies and gold you need to try the things where there is a tiny risk that you'll die.
Most of the quests have had their rewards increased in terms of exp and some seem to drop more loot/potions than before.

Someone who is content on not doing anything that takes a bit of time and might, if unlucky, involve death should probably stick around level 7.
Gnolls and Shadow Canyon comes to mind.

Quote from: Winston Martin;303643You don't need to quest at level 9. Please figure out something else to do.

With Winston on this mostly.  When I reach level 8 I only quest if someone else brings it up.  If you're out doing things, for the most part I find you will get xp.  Though my personal curiosity does want to at least do some of these quests once...

Assuming your schedule allows it.

Not sure why this keeps coming back to quest-grinding for XP.

The original post clearly stated that this was a request for shorter, non-time consuming quests that can be done at higher levels as a way to replenish lost supplies that can be used for exploration/plotting/DM events, not to grind to level 10.

Organised_Chaos
Thank you for noticing! I will edit the OP to be clear on the specific intent. Stuff with negligible XP rewards and a decent reward of cash or healing. If you want to reach L10 it should involve some risk or skill. But it you shouldn't be effectively punished for consumables or money because your PC manages to not die. I'd argue that if you have Remove Curse, then deliberately burning your XP off to stick at the top end of L8 is an optimal trick to be able to do some PvE game, stay low Withering and amass huge profit. This is a bit of a weird situation.

Often, you very much do need to quest at L9. If you're being spiced or running plots, they cost your supplies or your gold. If you're exploring, you're getting Withered and you need to pay to remove it unless there's a friendly PC doing it free. If something big drained all your potions, you need a way to get them back. Yes, invasions are very good but they're a reactive thing, you have to be there when it goes off. On the other hand if there are some low-risk low-reward quests out there you can leave town and proactively get hold of some resources to do more stuff. Otherwise you get overtaken in any conflict by PCs that are being loaded up from smashing badass quests with their badass mates, or DM plot, or faction favour.

Now, you might say "Oh why don't you go and to the caravan escort or Watcher Scouting or whatever" but they are essentially the same thing as quests. Semi-reliable means to get some resources to use for other stuff. However they have their own IC reasons not be avoided for various PCs.

I like PvE combat, and cannot understand the apparent fear that I might get a PC to L9 and then obtain part of my fun from EfU in a way that someone else doesn't like. I don't do simple quests because I want to grind to L11. I do it so I have the resources to blow on exploring/PVP/plot without needing to spend an entire evening on a longhaul quest, and because it's FUN. You know fun. The important thing in any game. Not Proactivity, not Conflict, not Risk-Taking, not Story. Those are just things that can generate Fun. If you're not having fun in a game, why are you there?

Open world content?

Zaltoro's Ascent?

Raid on the Bogs?

Withered Bandit Camp?

Have you done these?

They are short, sweet, and a boost to supplies.

I hear what Egon's saying and agree.  There's another part to it too.  When you've got time constraints but want to do /something/ these sort of quickie quests would be great.

It's not a matter of grinding, it's a matter of feeling like you're doing something.  You can build RP around getting people to go with you.  You can get people together without getting into a 3 hour RP bit (or conversely have a reason to get people together that's not going to end in awkward silence after 5 minutes).  And sometimes, yes, you want to be able to smoosh stuff for some supplies or just to smoosh, but don't have all f'n night.

It would also give the DM team a spot to pop in a plot thing or a lil spice or whatnot without having to spend hours and hours of build-up and/or be able to catch those people that don't have a lot of time so often don't bother logging in because they can't.

Just my $0.02

Quote from: Calimport Smoke;303763Open world content?

Zaltoro's Ascent?

Raid on the Bogs?

Withered Bandit Camp?

Have you done these?

They are short, sweet, and a boost to supplies.

Yeah. Zaltoro's Ascent would be 20-40 mins I guess.
Raid of the bogs. 15-20mins?
Withered bandit camp. 5mins?

These three quest should be plenty of "short action".

I back the idea as well. Already at level 8 it can be hard to resupply. Positive DM attention, open world stuff and attack events are nice, but you can't rely on any of them. I would offhand say that two out of three times when I come across some open world thingie it has already been looted.

I still think Egon's last point was the most important one.

I don't play EFU to build up for an epic server-chainging DM event-plot thing, i play to have fun. If i have the time to do that then i'll surely do, but if i don't, should i quit EFU? Chatting in the mistlocke square gets old fast. I'd rather chat with a friend IRL.

thats the point of randoms and exploration, why must all your fun come from scripted quests? have you not had enough of that by level 8?

Thanks Griff for being a perfect example of that odd attitude.

Quote... cannot understand the apparent fear that I might get a PC to L9 and then obtain part of my fun from EfU in a way that someone else doesn't like.

How does it hurt anyone else how another player obtains their enjoyment from this game if it isn't breaking their game for them?

@Akke:
Those offer admittedly some excellent endloot items but they are not an answer. Bogs raid is 3-8. Bandit camp involves a lot of kicking in random mobs until you get the key. I'd heard of Zatauro's as being hard and low potions. They are all more about the few rare endloot things than a pile of basic stuff like Purples offers. A lack of simple, basic supplies actively harms the server by discouraging players from trying the dangerous stuff as they can't survive it. And by killing the PCs that do try to punch above their weight without a crushteam. Fail on the high level stuff a couple times and you're broke and down a couple of levels for your trouble.

@Calimport Smoke:
My current character went up 2 levels just off the open world stuff and DM XP. Got some decent supplies too. However they are unpredictable and the random areas require playing a PC who can scout safely. I deliberately made Lestrade to have stealth and herbalism so I wouldn't get bored when I had no plotting to do. Quests on the other hand are there when you want to go do something. Your perspective's also skewed slightly by first playing a very survivable and successful PC who could roll those high level quests without needing to get up close with stuff..

If you haven't experienced problems getting supplies, that's probably as you're excellent at organising quest runs and play PCs that are capable of doing so. That's fine, but the fact that other players do run into supply issues and become victims of their own success is an indicator that something is dodgy. Concepts that aren't built for crushing efficiency are more expensive to run, and require the extra supplies to be able to take on the big stuff because they take more damage, deal less etc. That's why it's a good idea to have quests that are inefficient to tack onto a powergaming quest train but offer a chance to stock up. Minimal XP, no powerful artefacts, but useful generic supplies. Purples is the ideal of this.

I just don't agree that supplies are hard to get at high end. Infact I usually have so many that I'm trying to sort them and get rid of ones that are less important so I'm not encumbered. EFU is flooded with supplies. If you take risks you will be rewarded. You seemed focused on this crush team but I've seen groups of players make things work with the non optimal classes many times. There are a lot of high end quests and endgame things to do that is scripted. Personally I'd rather see the DMs in game then scripting all the time.

Wouldn't it be easier to raise the level cap on the crystal mines quest back to 9 rather than making other quests for the same purpose?  Just a thought.

Quote from: Damien;303802thats the point of randoms and exploration, why must all your fun come from scripted quests? have you not had enough of that by level 8?

Exploarton and random events takes a lot of time, unless you're intending to log out in the middle of nowhere (which shouldn't be done) or not get very far.

Explorations are definitely a great way to resupply. I barely quested and managed to stay looted/supplied just through explorations/other non quest things with my sorcerer. And defense of the bogs is max 10 i believe.

But if the dms want to make a new quest, thats fine with me. THe more quests the better.

It seems to me that the point of this thread is being completely derailed by the idea that this suggestion was made to promote easy powergaming for exp.  I think rather what the OP is suggesting is that not everyone has the time to do 5 hour long quest when they reach high levels and so shorter quests with low exp rewards would be good for those who cannot commit to such length.  Equally, something like this which provides some -basic- supplies doesn't seem at all unbalancing to me, but rather leaves -more- time to RP/Explore and means you will not need to spend time hoarding gold and other things or worrying that you're going to get wiped because you don't even have the most basic healing after an event.