EFUPW Forums

Hi everyone,

I’d like to make a friendly suggestion to everyone playing EFU:M: when you are beaten in PvP, I think it’s a good idea to stay in character at least to the person/people that have beaten you. Rage in tells to your friends if you like, but stay IC publicly.

  This suggestion comes after weeks of playing here, and having PvPed a lot of times. I’ve never actually full damage killed anyone in EFU:M, nor have I looted anyone for more than the princely sum of 2 blur potions. Nobody has ever lost a great deal to me, so going out-of-character and being passive-aggressive and short with me is quite a disproportionate response I think! It happens I’d say 80-90% of the time I PvP people and it just ruins the experience for me (a big thank you to the people that just lie there and take it and play along: I salute you).

  I have been  subbed a lot of times and FD killed and while I may sometimes talk to my friends about it in tells, in public channels I stay IC the entire time as I think it’s just a courtesy to let the person that’s beaten you fair-and-square savour their victory. The moment someone goes OOC to me I just feel like sighing and walking my character off, because it’s clearly become personal at that point and no longer a game that’s fun for everyone.

  To clarify, by going OOC I mean:

QuoteComplaining that I cheated to beat you (tell a DM, not me)

Complaining that you lost to lag rather than to my PC (tell a friend at worst, suck it up at best)

Complaining and/or being snarky when I’m hounding on your character to make more of their items drop so I can have a look through your pack. (I’m very sorry and I know it’s a pain and inconvenient to have to rearrange your inventory and quickslots, and I will spar kill if I’m not looking for something you’re carrying, but unless there's an alternative mechanic I can use that I'm not aware of, just deal with it I suppose?)

Complaining that I don’t have enough justification to sub your character or going "//WTF MAN" when I jump out at you in the wilds (if I’m playing a bandit or druid, esp. one that isn’t actually robbing you but just subbing you for reputation and character dev, which has been the case up until now, then I do. It’s ultimately up for me to decide and not you, and if you suspect I’m taking liberties, again, tell a DM, not me, I really don’t want to hear about it)

Complaining that you’re a lower level than me (if you’re really a much lower than me then I wouldn’t FD or loot you and I would go so far as to RP accidentally dropping healing items/invis as I walk away if I'd left you in a bad position with nearby hostile spawns)

Etc.

  (I am of course not talking about things like sending someone a polite tell to ask if you’re allowed to get up from being subbed.)

  As I said, I’ve never actually gone into PvP with the intention of FDing anyone, or looting them beyond one or two potions that I used up in the process, so even if you did lose to lag, even if you think I don’t have justification to beat on you… I suppose just be a big boy and deal with it? I do understand that some people panic and get frustrated when they think their characters are going to die or be looted hard, but I don’t think that’s an excuse, because if I can overcome that, I expect everyone else to be able to too.

  I imagine some of you reading this might be thinking “We know this all already, this is a totally unnecessary post”, and I would’ve thought that too, so I’m surprised to find myself having to write this, because I really didn’t expect this kind of thing to be going on here.

Thanks everyone!

The reminder is nice now and then. I believe that people sometimes expected the worst of things and panic in a slew of tells or other things. EFU has always had a very great success rate concerning quality PVP, and I truly think that it hasn't faltered in any form over the years.

Since this is a kind reminder to all the player base regarding PvP ... Here goes mine... Please, stay down when subdued. Simply emoting "stands up" does not give you the right to walk away, go invisible and strike back! You need the -clear- permission of the player who subdued you or a DM to perform any action other than speak.

If you have a (misplaced) sense of spite about the PvP, speak with the players and/ or DM AFTERWARDS. Accusatory OOC messages during the act are extremely nauseating.

Sending tells to friends just after you have been or while PvP is ongoing is a very bad idea. While I think that 99% of the time people do stick to the rules I do see what Akrasia is saying, I have encountered various people that can break the immersion by acting inappropiate. I.e. You can tell it is the player speaking through their character rather then the character itself.

Nice post, Akrasia.

I will step further and say that a lot of the folks you may complain to in tells won't appreciate it either.

I will add that trying to stay positive will also help develop a more balanced attitude towards PvP.

If you actually are the victim of inappropriate PvP, take it to a DM.  Otherwise, if you don't have anything nice to say (to the person who PvPed you), then don't say anything at all.

I'd like to add that IC but out of place dialogs are very annoying as well. I've seen a lot of players whose characters, after subdued, become fearless, badass dudes with no regard for their own life that go like

"You subdued me? well you suck, i ain't even scared. In fact, let me throw as many insults and provocations as i can and be unresponsive to beatings or intimidation"

Because this honestly feels as if the player was trying to ruin the experience of the other player by changing the personality of his/her character all sudden. That is unless the PC was like that all the time, but they usually aren't.

But that's just a personal opinion.

Begging for your life is a good thing to do in these situations, when you're subdued. Whining in tells or OOC will just make someone (me, if you're subdued by me) want to FD you, or at bare minimum, loot a lot more, just like insulting, threatening or lying to the person who subdued you. Most people on EfU will hardly ever FD, even if they are some major villain, and when it comes to looting they tend not to take anything nearing a crippling amount (though sometimes they do), and especially not from random folks. I have seen people give back the things they steal if the person gives in to some demand (like tell no one, spy on this person, figure this out for me, etc.).

Obviously sometimes folks do take a lot, and it's just the way it is. You got it once, though, and you can get it again, be it from friends, quests, or some nice little event. There are tons of ways of getting those potions back that it's hardly a setback for more than two or three days, tops. If you need help, ask for it IC and if necessary, OOC, people generally have good advice.

I totally agree with the statements above.  I just want to add one thing... not all of the 'sportsmanship' lay in the hands of the loser.  Yes the one that loses needs to be a good loser, they need to be able to look passed the loss and forward from here.  But, the winner needs to do the same.  Having lost more PvP than I ever care to admit, the winner can destroy the experience just as quickly.  

I've had tells telling how me how easy it was to beat me. (now that was always a confidence builder.)
I've had tells bragging about how much crap the "winner" has made off with over time.
I've had tells basically telling me it wasn't worth it because I didn't have anything worth taking. (My answer was "then don't take anything..."


So not only can the losers ruin the 'event'.. but the winners can just as well.

Sylvyr is correct. I have been in PvP that consisted of a fully buffed invis ganker taking me out in no time and then talking trash to me afterwards about how easy I was to beat. Both sides are important -- good roleplaying is cooperative in nature and requires some give and take from both sides. I should stress, I have been in losing PvP situations where I have enjoyed the RP far more than in winning ones where all the loser does is talk trash. It all depends on showing respect for your fellow players (possibly not the characters but always the players).

Endorsed. Deeply displeased to learn that this is apparently an issue; back in MY day players usually could handle winning and losing with equal grace.

dunno why people would gloat in tells, that is gay as hell and rude tbh, WHO WERE THEY SYLV ILL SORT THEM OUT

and there is nothing wrong with gloating ic, some characters are just pricks

I haven't experienced any of this myself, is this some kind of new trend?

I feel that the best I can do is to lose as often as possible in order to set a good example for other losers.

That's why I never win PvP. Honest, that's why.

TBH being chill is THE most important trait, bar none.

Quote from: Valo56;301114Most people on EfU will hardly ever FD, even if they are some major villain, and when it comes to looting they tend not to take anything nearing a crippling amount (though sometimes they do), and especially not from random folks.

What most people do is irrelevant and such general statements hold a limited basis for accuracy. What you do, is everything.

The most important factor is that you, the player, are respectful to your fellow player. A big part of this is putting yourself in the shoes of your victim if you are the winner, or in the position of the winner if you are loser and understanding that both of you must gain something from this interaction.

You must understand that cooperation is the key to making the experience enjoyable for all involved, and that it has to be meaningful, or else it should be reconsidered. We are not replicating the real world here where a mass murderer might simply gun down unsuspecting civilians without them ever knowing why. This type of act (i.e. 'I'm gonna FD kill you and take all your loot, even though I do not know, you do not know me and you did nothing except be a PC who walked into the crossroads to earn this.') should never be perpetrated against PCs. It is perfectly fine to do so against kobold tribes, goblin granary invaders and other varying NPC outlets for homicidal rage! And when you do so with other PCs, show some of your homicidal nature through RP and dialogue! Or not, depending on the PC.

Making something meaningful is complicated, but it is the very essence of what we are doing through our roleplay (and seemingly enjoying throughout the process!)

The primary issue for PvP initiators / winners (assassin, monster, bandit or any other kind of PvP heavy / criminal concept) is that you cannot act only for your own PC's gain without giving something back to those from whom you take.

You can give something back very easily, the currencies available are many and are limited mostly by your imagination (if you are thinking of your limitations by mechanics, you are so badly limiting yourself that it makes a kitten weep.)

Among the possibilities, it can and ideally always should include narrative: revealing why your PC is doing this through roleplay and dialogue. E.g. as a drug addict pilfers gold, they might reveal signs of withdrawal, "Pappa / Mama's gonna get a whole lot of lovin' tonight."

As for the victim, though it applies to everyone as well, this:

[INDENT]
As a player who has basically been the victim in every single PvP encounter I have had (except that one time, I suppose), the most valuable and productive trait to help overcome the situation is being calm. ShadowCharlatan says it best. (//%22http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/showthread.php?p=301114#post301128%22)[/INDENT]

For folks considering concepts, keep in mind you can give / take anything from other PCs, ranging from the material: gold & loot; mental: pride, sense of safety etc; physical: blood, body part, life; intangible: servitude, virginity, and many more, just use your mind creatively. (Yes, one of those was added in jest.)

Finally, do not make the mistake of picking your victims indiscriminately and FD killing them without building up a meaningful conflict or prelude. I have had the experience of having a character lured out to an ambiguous location, to be sacrificed in some necromantic ritual without knowing the PCs involved or that anything of this nature was going to take place. Thankfully, after DM consultation, we resolved the issue to allow for a much more acceptable experience and I believe those involved have learnt from their mistakes. Regardless, it was neither a fun, nor interesting initial experience. If you do have such a concept, please ensure you roleplay with your potential victims way before FD time, giving hints to intent, ideally building a rivalry before following through with such a plot.

TL;DR

Respect, just a little bit. (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0XAI-PFQcA%22)

Respect others and hope to be respected.

Aethereal, this is the correct video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rZs8ZKTsp0


PEPSI FOR ALL

I just want to say that I've been in numerous PvP and near-PvP situations (haven't won one yet, sadly) and I have never had this problem with other players. No one has ever gloated or used excessive force.

I have seen some instances where I thought the player's frustrations were driving the actions of the character, which is about as much fun as watching someone argue with their spouse. Other than that, I don't think this is any kind of epidemic.

"Losing" with grace is one of the coolest things a player can do, in my opinion.  Obviously there needs to be grace in victory as well, but it really is disheartening to see people break character just because they have been subdued.

If I see people roleplay a defeated victim well, it usually earns a substantial RP XP bonus, and definitely makes their character stand out on the rare occasions when I decide I'd like to make a thematic quest with loot potential for a PC or group of PCs.

I'm sad this is an issue! If you spot particularly bad sportsmanship, feel free to take screenshots and give us a heads up.

I actually don't understand the need to send ANY tells, whichever way, after a PvP.

It can be legitimate sometimes. Polite queries as to whether a DM was/is present, compliments on a fight and tense situation well resolved, but yes -- in general terms I agree. Certainly insults, complaints about your IC behavior (usually translating into "you didn't follow my script!") and gloating are far beyond the pale.

Learning to lose with grace is the mark of a distinguished player, the kind everyone will want to be around - this includes DM's and players.

Gaining this quality can  be difficult to master and those of you struggling with it have my sympathies, but understand, that it is not impossible to overcome.

Quote from: Valo56;301114Begging for your life is a good thing to do in these situations, when you're subdued.

This is an excellent tip and one I would like to highlight.  A lot of the time people act like the ultra brave hero, which is fine if it is your character.  Ultra brave heroes who back talk might not get mercy.

If you grovel and beg ICly, if it fits for your character, there is a very good chance you can survive and just work for them, or possibly be sent off with some sort of disfigurement or warning.

I guess what I am saying is, give cowardice a chance!  I think a lot of people over look this.

This is pure thread necromancy, but I have to say, since posting this request/suggestion to this forum, I haven't noticed a blind bit of difference.

In the interim, I've suffered two FDKs, one of which was perma, and I just shut up, did not communicate with the people who beat me, and got on with it irrespective of any private complaint I may or may not have had: so why is that, while I'm expected to swallow FDKs with reasonable frequency, in every single instance of PvP I've gotten into since posting, in which I've just tried to sub someone's PC, has it descended immediately into OOC complaining?

What more can I say that hasn't been said already to try to convince people to stop whining at me when I attack their character?

It is frustrating because it's ruining this game for me and I just don't feel like I can PvP anymore.

I've taken screenshots of the kind of rudeness players exhibit toward me but it's so pathetic and so petty and so unnecessary that I even feel silly bothering DMs to email them about it: but it's specifically this small-minded pettiness that so badly ruins the game.

For the last time, please, please stay in character, at least to me, when I hit your PC. Tell your friends if you think I'm an asshole, tell a DM if you think I'm cheating, just say nothing to me.

Ive actually had a guy feign afking so he could try and avoid getting mugged and then raged at me in tells the moment I subdued him.

It can be pretty bad brother.

Quote from: Softie;302586This is an excellent tip and one I would like to highlight.  A lot of the time people act like the ultra brave hero, which is fine if it is your character.  Ultra brave heroes who back talk might not get mercy.

If you grovel and beg ICly, if it fits for your character, there is a very good chance you can survive and just work for them, or possibly be sent off with some sort of disfigurement or warning.

I guess what I am saying is, give cowardice a chance!  I think a lot of people over look this.

I learned i could get away from death, XP loss, drylooting by pathetically pleading for mercy and acting like a coward when the situation calls for it. Got one of my characters VERY far- in all honestly the "not looking badass" is worth it.

Akrasia; I urge you to share those screenshots held with DMs. However small, it is causing you to hate the game and should be investigated.