I know this is probably a sensitive subject, but maybe it would be a good idea to tone down the number of invasions. They seem to be happening daily and several times a day. I dont know if its related to IC stuff, but with the Mistlocke set up it can be pretty hard on the lower level characters trying to start out. Especially when the invaders come from the side entrance. With the ziggurat if you didn't want to participate you could stay in the city, but with Mistlocke's side entrance there isnt that option. Usually I am all for spice, but I feel as if this is getting a little bit much. Just my two cents.
Or maybe giving greater rewards to people who participate in them? Especially when it's prudent to their concept that they strike a defense; though usually sacrifice many supplies and levels doing so.
Reducing the number of invasions is probably a good idea.
Lower the fatality rate of the invasions rather than the number of invasions themselves... It is well known that those who get smeared around the floor like butter need to go out and crush quests and grind and so on in order to recover. Weaker invasions, with less lag are absolutely a better solution.
Alright.
Do not lower the invasions, most of the recent ones are DM run, not knowing that others have been had earlier. Instead, when dm's run these events. Notice the players doing something, and not invis looting the rewards others are fighting to get.
Quote from: Craig210;258035Do not lower the invasions, most of the recent ones are DM run, not knowing that others have been had earlier. Instead, when dm's run these events. Notice the players doing something, and not invis looting the rewards others are fighting to get.
THIS!
I love the invasions. Please DON'T tone them down! They are great fun. The only issue is that unless your a money grubbing looter, you will always end up way, way poorer at the end, than at the start of them.
So let us have some way of script that notes how many moved around and actually killed stuff, note their levels and drop loot into their packs accordingly
I think invasions add something to EfU that no other server has. And adds a bit of a feeling that it is honestly us vs the whole rest of YMPH. It's awesome.
The invasions are awesome, lovely and many other great adjectives.. but they are also fatal. Those of us who play characters who'se RP is to go in and face stuff, sure, we know that we likely will die at some points, everyone does.. And death on efu has been argued to..well, death innumerable times..
But yeah... It would be nice to have something benefit those who actually give thousands of XP, which translates to a few hours of "work" to get back, something for the effort... Because it happens too often that once you come back from fugueland, every corpse is picked neat and dry. So in the end, those who die are those who get nothing for the effort and end up with a lose / lose situation.
For veterans, i am certain there are innumerable ways of diminishing these losses, but for those who are new to the place, it can be rather devastating, especially on morale and the everlasting: "Am i having fun here" aspect of it.
tbh invasions have always given an INSANE amount of exp (at mid levels), you could hide at the back and get it anyway but if you don't, I'd say the exp gain is worth the supplies cost. If you do you're a bit of a wanker
I think the point is being missed. Its the quantity of the invasions (every day lately, sometimes multiple times a day) and the set up of Mistlocke thats causing the issue from my viewpoint. Its when the defenders on the bridge get beaten back, especially when the side attack comes in then the invaders get into the town proper. Its this scenario that tends to cause a lot of fatalities. Especially among new characters or builds that aren't really meant for front line combat. The invasions themselves are a lot of fun, but to many and its drains the supplies / levels and gets frustrating for new character / non combat builds quickly. So to keep everyone happy what about the following ideas.
1. Lesson the number of invaders coming in from the side, the main front is still the bridge the side attack is not as much of an issue. This way the side attack can be beaten off by the NPC guards if the PCs screw up and let the attack into the town proper.
2. As was mentioned before, have some reward for the brave defenders of the town. That way even if someone has to respawn they don't feel like it was just a potion / level drain. There does tend to be a habit of people looting the NPC corpses while the fighting is still going on sadly.
3. Maybe have some way of stopping the invasions IC for a while. IE if the characters choose they can follow up on -why- the invaders came and see about stopping it. That way it isn't quite so random and there way for the PCs to fight back so to speak.
4. Maybe a bit of warning, in the Ziggurat usually the scouts reported the hordes coming. What about for the town you hear the war horns of the enemy host sounding in the distance? Surely that large a group of invaders makes some noise and gives some warning.
5. Keep a score card in the DM forum about how many invasions have happened and what type. Space them out and maybe give a bit of a bigger reward if they come frequently.
Any other ideas? I agree they are a lot of fun, but lets try and make it so they aren't so hard on the less well funded characters. Especially considering how often they get into the town itself.
If you don't want to die in an invasion, dont take part.
Fact is, alot of higher level, better stocked, or more daring players are the reason invasions are held off most of the time. They sacrifice supplies, and take the risk of death to have a little fun.
Other players, get the benifit of free xp and watch the show, or risk taking part.
We have numerous invasion scripts, from kobolds to trolls. Meaning even low level players can take part and hold off an attack.
The thing that grates me, and I mean really pisses me off. Is the same players, doing nothing in these invasions except casting invisibility and looting everything clean. More often than not, a simple healing from a charm could save a characters life. But they are too interested in getting rich.
This is not particular solvable on an OOC level, other than in DM invasions. They take note, and act accordingly. On an RP level, i get payback on the bastards.
Craig that is rather my point. With the set of Mistlocke taking part is not always voluntary. There hasn't always been an announcement the invasion is coming. With the side attack issue the invaders can be into the village proper very quickly. As a result, you walk out of the inn or the like not realizing anything is going on and your smack in the middle of it. That was the point of the idea segment. A lot of people seem to like these, so lets come up with ways to make them fun for everyone.
The side attacks, are not scripted and done by the DM team, and often done because the front are abusing the AI of the spawns.
I feel like everybody says it's "abusing" the AI, but why would you just stand at a bridge waiting for a horde to attack you, and eventually bring you down? It doesn't make sense IC and usually ends in a lot of deaths. As the bridge is way harder to navigate. Maybe the Team should work on the AI?
And they almost always have a warning.
It is free XP, and usually a lot of loot.
I think they need a slight tuning up. But nothing drastic. You could always NOT go, as the sendings say "All abled bodys are asked to fend them off, and for unable bodys to hide inside"
Something that needs to be said: when the sending warning about an incoming invasion is made, advice is also given to not be there if you can't handle it. Don't ignore this advice if it applies to you.
I disagree with this suggestion. Keep the number of invasions the same, or raise it.
QuoteIt is free XP, and usually a lot of loot.
I've been in these things for I don't know how long. I can say honestly, that I have yet to get anything near a "fair" amount on the loot found. As was said, you get players that go invis and grab everything they can. I gave up on it. If I fight, I fight and leave, I don't even bother trying to get any loot.
Here's an example; Kobald invasion. Fought off the main force, then a Kobald SuperHero came along. Strong PC's fell, so I stepped up to help hold it off giving them a chance to respawn. Well, we managed to kill it. I used more supplies than I thought I would.. know what I got? Nothing.
Free XP, sure.. lots of loot... can't prove it by me. I do the invasions only when it makes sense. I refuse to go out of my way for them anymore.
I am not sure if it is scripted or not, but having the invaders spawn from the side entrance is the only issue I have with the invasions. Not noticing the sending, my low level character basically ran outside straight into a death trap. Otherwise, everything seems fine.
I'd be in favor of making it much tougher to invis loot everything during these events. I held off a scripted invasion solo (with the NPC Stygs) one night back in Archipelago and some stealther looted nearly everything before I finished off the boss. I had no C&C items so even while he was around making bags disappear I had no ability to counter him with despite the fact it was painstakingly obvious what was going on OOCly and ICly. Maybe a script that simply bombs your H/MS for a round when you take an item in stealth. I'd like to say it isn't an issue but this is the same reason PC corpses autolock during DM invasions; people, maybe just 5 or even 10 percent of the playerbase, really cannot be bothered to control themselves.
Getting nothing for your efforts, not even recognition, is a colossal letdown, enough that people may be inclined simply to avoid these encounters altogether. A simple change like the one suggested above could fix the issue and make these encounters more enjoyable all around as was the original intention before buttheads (players) got brought into the equation.
As far as difficulty, I haven't really been around much lately and the last DM invasion I saw a month or two ago was indeed a bit much due to the monsters being used, but that is more an issue related to that particular staff member moreso than anything else, a topic I have commented on previously. I can't seem to find the thread for posterity's sake.
Guys, please read the above posts before responding. [Delete] There was NOT any warning on the last couple I have seen [/Delete] (Apparently there was one and I just missed it.) and you can't just "not go" because the invaders are getting into the village itself. That was what prompted the posts from above. If you want to give a warning that would solve a lot of these issues. Then like everything else it's fair game, you choose to go knowing you could very well die. Everyone else heads inside to the Mist End or the like.
Look at it this way, it takes about three to four well buffed or equiped PCs to hold the front during an invasion if the invading forces are tough at all. When its kobolds there tend to be a few "super kobolds" to spice things up so you end up needing this anyway. Fewer than that and someone gets overwhelmed. Before this wasn't an issue in the Ziggurat because there was only one front. Now we have two fronts. One on or before the bridge and one to the side of the village. How often do you have eight or so well equiped PCs on and in the village who are able / ready to hold the two fronts? Thats why you tend to get the death into the village issue, bridge is going fine and then its oh crap we just got flanked. PCs run back but they are usually cleaning up a mess when they get there.
If only I read the post, I would agree with you entirely. Unfortunately
Getting flanked is bad. Your argument was made and required no further comment - if its a script issue hopefully the suggestion thread will get followed up on, if its a DM issue you're probably SOL. My advice is to chug invis second things get nasty and let NPCs/retards take the worst of it (unless you're a pally dork, in which case you fall under retard by default).
The rampant let's call it Ninja? Looting by PC's is the only downside I see to the invasions..and I have died on several of them. This is strictly a player problem. If your doing it, stop. If you see someone doing it, kill them, on site. (Subdual of course), as you would to any thief stealing supplies dearly needed by Mistlocke and it's defenders. Doubt the DM's can make the invis looter stop, so it falls to us. The Muster is sure to understand...do it ig. Have them tried for treason, or whatever after the fight is done..or kill them outright and put their head on a pike at the gates as a warning to other carrion pickers..lots of ways to solve it ig.
They are normal spawns and don't really drop a ton of loot. I can't really imagine anyone thinking that they are missing out on things from these invasions even if they get nothing.
I think the main issue here is that the transition between Mistlocke and the springs is far too much of a blind spot in defense, both IC and OOC. There isn't the slightest bit of a buffer between what is supposed to be an NPC-controlled safe area and a wilds area with dangerous spawns. Just the other day I got transition cubed there by an elder werewolf and was forced to flee. When it caught up with me, I was in the middle of Mistlocke and got downed in two hits.
Just put some NPC guards by that trans or remove it completely. Really don't run invasions through it.
My problem's been with the fact that I've seen a couple of Gaathmars turning up when no DM was visible on EFUSS. They then proceed to crush the crap out of a lot of the PCs there. The old setup there was an unkillable Stygian NPC who would definitely be able to clear the mobs eventually. We don't have that here and the scaling has been a lot more vicious on players, especially since mobs started drinking their loot too.
The "spawn exploiting" is a pain in the arse as PCs end up moving forward naturally to kill archers/mages even if they started further off. Best solution I can see is to split invasions into a smaller number of larger waves of enemies, so PCs can't outnumber mobs as they spawn. Of course, that risks lag.
As for what Semli mentioned, that "bomb your H/MS script" exists. It's attached to a lot of quest loot chests to stop people sneaking in and stealing all the loot without a fight. As players have mentioned before though, even if you see people looting, the "X acquires an object" notices are in the combat log and rapidly get lost in there.
The Guard just past the bridge is immortal in the same respect as that stygian. People just hold the line outside of mistlocke normally.
On a related note, don't surround the monster spawn sites on invasions and stand there buffed to high heavens slaying the creatures that appear IN THE MIDDLE of your group. And ESPECIALLY, if this is the case, don't continue to ROLEPLAY BEING SOME KIND OF BADASS, while abusing the system. There is nothing more horrendous than a group of players screaming warcries and shouting "ANYMORE FOR ANYMORE, WEAKLINGS?!", while stood in a circle around an endless trickle of monsters. Players doing such stupid things will find themselves swiftly corrected.
Quote from: Halfbrood;258173On a related note, don't surround the monster spawn sites on invasions and stand there buffed to high heavens slaying the creatures that appear IN THE MIDDLE of your group. And ESPECIALLY, if this is the case, don't continue to ROLEPLAY BEING SOME KIND OF BADASS, while abusing the system. There is nothing more horrendous than a group of players screaming warcries and shouting "ANYMORE FOR ANYMORE, WEAKLINGS?!", while stood in a circle around an endless trickle of monsters. Players doing such stupid things will find themselves swiftly corrected.
Many of the invasions makes it impossible not to do this as you otherwise have to stand at the bridge and take fire from mages and ranged units (such as Troll stone-throwers). When you push your way forward through the enemies you'll eventually end up at their spawn and while you could of course run back to the bridge and start over when this happens its only a matter of time before you get in the same situation once more. Not to mention, it takes only one PC to stay at the spawn to nullify the attempt of letting the mobs out by all others. Perhaps there could be a way to make the monsters in the invasions spawn from 2-3 different locations?
Remove the woods beside the Transition and create more spawn points. :)
This would, however, stretch the defenders something awful. Especially if there are few of them to begin with. So if that's going to happen, may it perhaps be wise to make certain the defenders can actually move from point to point without risking to be blow apart because they need to spread out?
Otherwise, you will simply end up with a bunch of people getting surrounded and smeared across the floor.
// Ugh, missquote
It's hard to avoid pushing them back to the transition....you have to run after the ranged who sit back there....who all have AI to run from melee, which sends everyone running to the back of the area, and then all the melee chase you back there.
I got myself killed trying to run back to a "normal" area of battle just earlier from massive AoO spam. So....there is that side of it <_<
Invasions 43 minutess apart seems a little much. (http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/showpost.php?p=258179&postcount=501)
The chances for two invasions in a row is slim.
Quote from: Caster13;258262Invasions 43 minutess apart seems a little much. (http://www.escapefromundeath.com/forums/showpost.php?p=258179&postcount=501)
2 Quests 43 minutes apart doesn't bother anyone, though.
What I mean is: invasions are for flavor. If you're the guy to stay online 4h in a row, they -may- seem common. For the guy that logs on once in a while for a 1h run, they are rare.
If they bore you OOCly, you're free to ignore them ICly: take refuge into the Keep because you're scared (yes, not all pcs should be badass, and that's why people build castles in the first place). Watch another entrance because, hey, the main attack may be just a diversion.
You'll only get killed inside the village if you're afking, which you should only do in a safe place (that means nowhere, really).
I'm more concerned about how easy they are to repel. Please give AI a chance, or don't participate at all. I can understand running to an archer/mage but then get back a bit as if holding unto your positions.
As for Ninja looting, it's an IC action. Beat up guys who are looting while -you- are fighting for the town's safety.
Please, leave it how it is. The invasions are so fun. Everyone scrambles online to play against these raids (as lame as it is). Regardless, it's something fun, and as mentioned above, it makes the server feel "us vs them". It's awesome. Keep it how it is!
I would put two or three spawn points near the road, for the archers to spawn randomly of them.
Otherwise, sometimes, we end up running to their spawn point, and we kill an archer, another one appears immediately at the same spot, and so on.
Just a thought!
Yes, a lot of time the archers, or other ranged NPCs, don't leave the spawn point. And if you kill them there another appears right in front of you.
I made a bit of a game out of a troll invasion: kill the Bog Witch, and when it immediately respawns, try to kill it again, but faster. I think I got her in one round once. I started wondering if it would be better to, like, hold the bog witch somehow, to prevent others from spawning.