Some of you have already taken advantage of the new associations that have been implemented. I'd like to ask you for feedback on how you experience them and most importantly how we can make them better for you, since it's usually going to be left to the players to take advantage of the benefits they bring.
So what I'm mainly curious about:
[INDENT]What do you like and what do you think should be done better?
Is there something missing you feel would help you realize your agenda within the association?
Is there something you dislike about it all?
Other stuff?[/INDENT]
These are not going to overshadow the purpose of the major factions, that I believe will be opened very soon. Great times ahead :D
I have a character in the Mayor's Muster. I'm also just going stream of consciousness here so I'll say any comments I have and hopefully you'll filter whatever is not useful.
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"What do you like and what do you think should be done better?"
I like the feel of the association's NPCs. In general it feels laid back, dutiful, like a close-knit group (band of brothers) but not self-righteous. I like that it is essentially a blank slate without feeling or being "bland", which would be terrible. I also like that there are no alignment restrictions, which I've always felt was more of an OOC thing. Two things that could be done better: first, install more unnamed NPCs around the village perimeter and one in the square. Even just two more would help. This is for the purpose of reporting crimes quickly and also giving the feel of a fully enclosed village, which this is in many ways; second, pick a name for the association members. Although this could likely be done by PCs just as easily. I like Mustermen, though it sounds a bit like mustardmen. Musterer is weird. There's lots of options but right now it's a struggle. I just prefer "Recruit", actually.
"Is there something missing you feel would help you realize your agenda within the association?"
I'd like to see more oppourtunities for the Muster to interact in official ways with Clans Caermyn and Aberdenn, with the Order, and with the Mayor (who I feel is a pretty interesting character from everything I've read.) And maybe not always in a law-enforcement capacity, but something casual or tongue-in-cheek to really put across that this community was existed before we arrived, and people know and communicate with each other.
"Is there something you dislike about it all?"
When people leave the doors open and unlocked. Not naming any nameS, but It's a Definite challenge. So far, I have literally no complaints other than that.
I like how we're largely given our own agenda to work with, and it can be very fun to explore possibilities and mold the reputation of the faction!
Associations are one of my favourite additions to EFU:M. Pretty much all of my favourite pc's have been in factions and whilst they are fun they only fit certain concepts. I like the fact pretty much any concept can join an association and you can still enjoy the perks and allies inherent to that kind of organisation. They are also great in the fact you can get a pc uniform without spending several thousand gold on very expensive custom armours.
I'm not sure about the other associations but the one thing I think could be improved is a ranking system. For caermyn anyway it says that NPC's may reward you with higher ranks but an official list for each group would be cool. Personally I like to know where my character is ranked and who's above and below me as it helps to realise what you can/can't do and who's in charge in a particular situation. This is especially important imo in something like the muster. However a nice idea if there are not direct ranks would be a sort of reputation system in that you unlock extra perks as the NPC's take note of you, maybe a special post on the forums which notes how well reputed pc's are within an association. A lot of the old efu:a factions had pretty vague requirements for reaching "the next level" and I feel that this sort of "Do cool stuff and you'll be noticed" is much more appropriate for the looser associations. NPC bosses are well and good but higher ranked pc's are -always- around to push plots without a DM.
TL;DR: A better publicised or more specific ranking system either with private, corporal, sergeant etc. Or a sort of "Whose done the most for us this week" leaderboard system for the associations would be good.
I love it, however, I feel being admitted to them should be similar to joining a DM faction IC'ly, as in, most will require two recommendations for joining. However, not having to app unless you want to advance in rank is very awesome.
I have to say that it's good, but I worry about it detracting from PC factions. An Association has the advantages of an established PC faction. Easy recruitment, a bigger sandbox feel, HQ. They also have guaranteed DM interest, and uniforms.
Understandably there's going to be a rush on them as people want to see, but there's suddenly a huge number of PCs in the Muster, and it's still growing. Feels kind of overwhelming.
It's actually shrinking, if yesterday is an indication we lost 5 people due to a variety of circumstances.
As the Muster should be. People die off all the time because of the duties of the job.
Associations are grand, I feel like the group colors of some should be more distinct from each other though.
Drastically different and easily identifiable group colors would be nice. We have a dark, gritty setting, but it is hard to tell the difference between the factions at a glance.
Given the quasi-nordic theme of Mistlocke, Hirdsman (lower rank) and Huscarl (veteran rank) may be appropriate titles for the men of the Muster.
I like the idea of Recruit for recruits because it's kind-of a put down, and Gendarme (gentleman-at-armes) for first-rank officers because it indicates how polite and societal everything about Mistlocke is. Even our guards are "gentlemen".
Different uniforms is definitely on the list.
Nordic? Try Celtic.
I was reminded of Novgorod.
It would help alot if Association (and Faction) colours were stated outright. I also like the idea of a page dedicated to Associations/Factions/PC Factions of note, detailing their purpose and deeds.
Caermyn and Aberdenn...Novgorod?
More and more, as actual serious stuff begins happening, I'm beginning to see that despite its numbers the Muster just doesn't have the teeth to actually protect Mistlocke. At all. I'm hoping that changes soon, because criminals are traipsing about with immunity.
This'll change with PC elections I presume.
Quote from: lovethesuit;246106More and more, as actual serious stuff begins happening, I'm beginning to see that despite its numbers the Muster just doesn't have the teeth to actually protect Mistlocke. At all. I'm hoping that changes soon, because criminals are traipsing about with immunity.
Criminals in Ziggurat weren't really that easy catches neither. It's all more about getting actual proof and witnesses, especially the latter, then just grabbing someone "becouse we suspect" or "becouse he was nearby".
Mistlocke's laws are pretty straight forward, with exact crimes with exact punishments listed. If someone is a known criminal guilty of a crime, what is stopping the Muster from apprehending them?
The muster is a village militia, they aren't like the Armada.
Quote from: lovethesuit;246106More and more, as actual serious stuff begins happening, I'm beginning to see that despite its numbers the Muster just doesn't have the teeth to actually protect Mistlocke. At all. I'm hoping that changes soon, because criminals are traipsing about with immunity.
Something to work for ic, but keep in mind you're just a member of a militia in a relatively small settlement.
If anything, I would hope that would loosen the restrictions. Ultimately I'm not concerned about my character's place; his story is being told one way or the other. The Muster itself is fine, and the way Recruits work is as well. It's more than fine, it's good. But it seems that -nobody- is doing Team Law in a way that makes a difference, and that tilts the balance.
The point about adding info on the Associations is a good one. I'll try to get those added to the Setting Information within a day or two!
Quote from: lovethesuit;246106More and more, as actual serious stuff begins happening, I'm beginning to see that despite its numbers the Muster just doesn't have the teeth to actually protect Mistlocke. At all. I'm hoping that changes soon, because criminals are traipsing about with immunity.
Too true. In part because of what we've been told as we join, that we have no real guard rights, and we're just there to protect, not hunt down and arrest. Definitely no Stygian Armada, more like a watered down Loyalist Militia (who despite being in the same boat, regularly went out and kicked ass or at least tried).
Perroy, I'm assigning you to fix this, go collect some 50's. :P
I think that fact makes it better really, it makes it more up to players' initiative to do while still maintaining an aura of responsibility in their role.
I'm confused then. We've got laws posted but without any mention of who judges them, metes out punishments, or arrests crooks. I had assumed the Muster, but for all I know, the Mayor is supposed to put on his Sheriff's Badge and hunt down thieves. Still, even if you're not ordered to hunt down crooks, can always do it unofficially outside town I suppose.
The Muster absolutely enforces the laws. Punishment is handed out by the Lord Mayor or Captain. The emphasis on the Muster is punishing crimes within Mistlocke, and not being some kind of all purpose team-good-law-protectors of Ymph. Essentially, the NPCs - and of course PCs can think differently - don't see the Muster as something that should get involved in things that occur outside of the town.
I'm in the Aberdenn and I cant tell us apart from the Muster. Its also really hard to identify the Caermyn. I refresh the idea of a minor color changes to all three which make them distinct from each other, and more importantly from base dyes you can grab in the market. I say with with a heavy heart, cause I love Aberdenn's browns.
Aside from color I'm still figuring out these factions and how they work, so I'll toss some more feedback when I have a better grasp on what's going on.
Quote from: Nightshadow;246124we're just there to protect, not hunt down and arrest
Do it anyway and see what happens... :D
It's been months with new developments, our major factions are in, all have tested the water and found it either likeable or not. With more experience, is there something to add regarding:
[INDENT]What do you like and what do you think should be done better?
Is there something missing you feel would help you realize your agenda within the association?
Is there something you dislike about it all?
Other thoughts?[/INDENT]
The main thing with associations, and specifically the clans, is I feel it would be helpful if more of their history was known. I feel that they need more background into what has passed over the years so that people better understand the feud, as well as each clan's part in the formation and building of Mistlocke.
The two houses appear rather stagnant to me, at least in terms of conflict between them. I'd say that they need the things Capricious suggested but could also do with some greater agenda and goals that cause competition with their rivals or enemies.
The largest impact I have noticed from associations is a negative one that comes in the form of recruitment. They seem to swallow up players that could perhaps belong to player factions instead, yet offer instant incentives that player factions typically cannot.
I really feel that they need to be expanded upon lore wise, offer a better hierarchy above the base that has positions players apply for, and compete with one another a lot more in general.
Another note on recruitment, in my limited experience with associations. I would guess they hold a great deal of appeal with players because it is possible to become a part of something primarily player-driven, make an impact on the server, etc. etc...without (emphasis here) needing to write an app. For a faction that is out there, pushing its agenda and goals, it's a convenience to be able to find a PC and get rolling with the crew right away. But if all of the players in an association are in different timezones, busy with RL issues or what have you...it becomes pretty difficult to learn about the group, much less get inducted. You can always bug DMs to get keys/wanded, yes, but that seems to be missing the point of associations.
Not exactly helpful, I know, because there's no real solution for something like that.
I'd also love if a little more information could be made available on the Wyrm Watchers, as I know very little about what they're about besides king, crown,???, profit. Perhaps the lore and other core goals of the group are easier to learn once you're on the inside, or maybe they're for the players themselves to push. I really couldn't guess.
One of the negatives I saw was the fact that the Mayor's Muster feels absolutely powerless at times. It is meant to be they are suppose to be village militia, protect people, etc, but they dont have arrest wands, authority, or any respect by the populace. It was said before even in the information that the Mayor's Muster has little sway. Mayor's Muster should have the most sway of all the factions.
And to be added everyone in Mistlocke is usually a village militia (as everyone goes out and fights scripted raids, solve troubles, and do it all without even batting an eye at the Muster.
QuoteOne of the negatives I saw was the fact that the Mayor's Muster feels absolutely powerless at times. It is meant to be they are suppose to be village militia, protect people, etc, but they dont have arrest wands, authority, or any respect by the populace. It was said before even in the information that the Mayor's Muster has little sway. Mayor's Muster should have the most sway of all the factions.
And to be added everyone in Mistlocke is usually a village militia (as everyone goes out and fights scripted raids, solve troubles, and do it all without even batting an eye at the Muster.
I do not agree with you.
* Being part of the Muster grants you power and authority. Requests of aid and assistance are almost always answered by Lawful or Good PCs (sometimes by others, too!). True, I would like more ways to efficiently enforce your authority, but the important part here is to remember that the Muster is a village militia. They are a local entity, trusted and respected by those who live in the village over larger periods of time, and this should be reflected in the attitude of people (NPCs and PCs) around them. They are a persistant force, they know all the names of the kids in the village and what Joe Blogs on the street corner likes to drink at the inn. That familiarity in itself can command a certain respect, and usually, it means that there doesn't need to be any laws. Disobey the Muster, and you might not get a fine, but everybody else sure as hell aren't going to like you better for it.
* Being part of the Muster means that the population counts on the fact that you, and nobody else, shows up to defend the village (at a minimum this includes the NPCs guarding the town). Nobody else has that kind of presence, with the possible exception of the two Houses, in Mistlocke. Sure, adventurers do have a tendency to show up, but are not a homogenous group. No adventurer faction is, like the Muster through It's PC and NPC population, present for every single invasion attempt and attack.
* The Muster is also the only trained military force in Mistlocke. While there are other paramilitary associations (the Houses), factions outside Mistlocke (the Order) of this orientation, the Muster are the only group in Mistlocke to fall entirely under the headline. "Herding cats" is an expression often used in trying to get PCs from other factions to do as they are told and act in an efficient, military manner. It would, however, be very nice to see some genuine changes in attitude from NPCs and PCs to reflect this - and for the Muster to be more efficiently able to execute their military role. That said, I feel much of the latter part of this is something to be pursued IG. Another thing to bear in mind is that, although with all the above, it still is little more than a village militia.
I think the Muster has come a long way, but at the end of the day it is little more than the PCs in it. Since it is an Association, it is very fleeting and open, and since it's small it is also very dependant on those very same individuals. Personally, I think the feel of the Faction is excellent. But it wouldn't hurt that the prime characteristics that I feel best describe the Muster - reliability, loyalty, discipline, but also a certain beaurocracy, slow-movingness, and lack of subtletly - be recognized to a larger extent in Mistlocke.
I am sure someone will disagree with me, and given that most of the above are only impressions I have given little thought there are bound to be errors contained within. But I think it gives a generally good picture of the Muster, at present - a good Association, with excellent DM support, but without the teeth of a more organized and formal Faction (which it is not).
I recall this one line that "Mayor's Muster is MAYOR'S Muster" I was always under the impression that it's not like stygians, it's not law enforcement in it's default sense. They are ragged group of men and women working to uphold current Mayor's word and enforce it.
Though I take it as I see it to be. I don't assume them to be the police.
Granted I only skimmed the topics regarding the Muster...
I think a large segment of the Mayor's Muster's personality and feel comes from the players. If a future mayor invests in the Muster, maybe they'll receive better equipment. If a character in the Muster instills fear or respect in the population, maybe people would treat them differently. They're a rag-tag group, and definitely not the most "professional" or well-equipped in terms of guarding, but they also open themselves to being flavored by particularly excellent players on all fronts. Lately it seems to me that flavor is unpopularity with many villagers for being perceived as weak, and I think it's a fair judgment to say that's a result of player actions.
I like the criticism about the Houses needing more flavor. Perhaps if I have time later I'll try to run some small events to elaborate some on their history, which is actually quite rich!