Welp, that's exactly my suggestion. I know it's a core PnP D&D thing, but we don't play PnP D&D on EfU, so I think this alternative better so that paladins aren't just evil PC detecting radars and actually inquisitioning people is required to them. It promotes more liberal interactions between paladins and evil characters, giving them some more leeway as to what kind of relationships they can have between each other.
Just as a paladin might attempt to redeem an evil character, a villain should be able to try and corrupt a paladin by perhaps tricking him into doing something terrible, so that he might lose the favor of his god at the least. Kinda impossible to do anything of the sort at the moment.
And on the other hand, paladins would actually need to exert caution with those they interact with. They could like lay down "traps" to fish out evil people, like asking what the present party members think of raiding those nearby graves.
A battle of wits, with either side not fully committing to PvP until each other's morality is assured. Less black and white, and more mystery.
Discuss.
Oh, perhaps even just remove the identification on the DE.
We'd only get: "You detect something evil nearby." or not.
Detect Evil is integral to a Paladin. Please don't start thing again! :(
It's fine as is. If you want to do that stuff, it's very easy to stop showing up on a paladin's detect evil. FOIG how, if you didn't know already.
It is indeed integral to a paladin. I'd be in favor of a few rare items out there, however, that block it in a more permanent manner than the current method, which would be very good for any evil PC's that lack spellcasting ability but want to infiltrate good aligned groups.
Oh darn. It's really just too easy at the moment to root out who the bad guy is or isn't. Guess I'll have to live with it.
Neutral doesn't show up with Detect Evil.
Can we have the means to block Detect Evil added as a mechanical change note for new players? It's no big spoiler when every Evil PC from a veteran player uses it by the gallon. It's just like knowing that Hold Person is now Mind-Affecting etc.
Yeah, I really do wish that was known to everyone.
Paladin: *Detect evil* Aha! You're evil!
Evil guy: "Prove it."
Paladin: :(
Paladin's are still LG. It's not like even if they did detect evil on evil people that they could murder that evil person in cold blood. They'd still have to go through the annoying process of proving that guy was evil IG.
Quote from: Swifty Willownall;245027Paladin: *Detect evil* Aha! You're evil!
Evil guy: "Prove it."
Paladin: :(
Paladin's are still LG. It's not like even if they did detect evil on evil people that they could murder that evil person in cold blood. They'd still have to go through the annoying process of proving that guy was evil IG.
It is important here to note for referential purposes that the affect of a Paladin -
people who are usually respected in the community, even if it is the sort of respect you give a senile old codger talking about the 'good old days'when men were men and women were chaste and virginal, and how the setting should conform to this unrealistic and frankly absurd vision of how the world *should* be - pointing at you and saying "This is Evil!" goes beyond the possibility of being immediate lynched and seeps into politically integral situations, such as fostering trust with a group of people.
Somebody needs to make a fake-paladin Cyricist who runs around and accuses good people of being 'evil'.
Concept go.
This has been disscussed several times and DE should definitely stay. The only real issue I have experienced with playing evil pc's in the past in regards to this is that the main counter to DE just won't last long enough if your pc is a public person. For example someone playing a pc like father michael will need to be permenently guarded from DE. This wouldn't be a problem on it's own but if someone is spamming de constantly then as soon as the times up they know you are evil again. Perhaps change it to limit the amount of uses within a five minute period before the pc gets stunned.
Quote from: Egon the Monkey;245020Can we have the means to block Detect Evil added as a mechanical change note for new players?
In the old (Underdark) setting, this information was sort of hiding in plain sight to PCs who did some rudimentary exploring and examining. I rather thought that was a tidy solution to the problem.
I just wish Detect Good was easier to get. I've had exactly one (1) PC who got it, in the fugue, immediately following a permadeath, where it did me absolutely no good. Somehow, I would think Detect Good is a hundred times more fun than Detect Evil.
Never going to happen. I'm all for paladins utilizing their wisdom score and handily will crack down on a misguided paladin trying to quest with evil.
There was a city councilor in Sanctuary that managed to keep his alignment hidden his entire career by utilizing the pro good spell. It's not impossible, even for public figures.
That being said, something that blocks detect for a longer period of time, or a rare item that blocks it as a static effect would be nice for evil characters with ambitions for public office. There may be already, I'm not sure what means of blocking the detect currently exist.
There are items that will block it (something worth applying for with ambitious characters?).
I like DE as is. Being "caught" be a paladin isn't really that bad, nor is it all that limiting outside of maybe being kicked from a quest group.
For me the times I tend to cringe is more when the paladin takes to name calling a PC they don't know because they pinged DE. I don't mean the whole "tainted" thing, although that gets old and tired. But calling someone a name like "bastard" or "whore" over the PC being evil is dangerously close to breaking the paladin's code. They're not supposed to lower themselves to petty name calling, and certainly not slander.
I'd say that -is- breaking the code.. unless the characters have a history together that warrants such insults. But just walking up to Mrs. Evil and going "WHORE!" is.. well, bad. My paladin has called Father Michael a bastard, though.. and I'd say it was fairly warranted, considering the circumstances.
In a campaign setting where the evil person may well murder the paladin over calling them evil, I think detect evil is fine. I like having it in.
Paladins are expected to be courteous and noble, in a sense. What reason they give you after they notice you're evil, and refuse to travel with you, is one thing - but how they put it is another. It is not very paladin like to start spitting on someone no matter how much they sense evil.
They do not necessarily know why it is so - did that person murder someone? Is he innately a person of greed, malicious? Is he a thief? When, where and how are not known. It is not noble in any manner or way to slander, however warning people is well in their rights.
Detect evil is fine as it is. I will agree that sometimes more responsibility and thought should go in to people's rp when using the feature, but generally there is little wrong with it.
I saw it being used the first time the other day, having always played on a server with detect evil removed... Everyone is about to go in a quest, paladin uses DE, and says I wont work with evil... then says //remove this person from the quest.... What sort of fun is that?
Quote from: gDarDog;245536I saw it being used the first time the other day, having always played on a server with detect evil removed... Everyone is about to go in a quest, paladin uses DE, and says I wont work with evil... then says //remove this person from the quest.... What sort of fun is that?
He should not be OOC demanding it.
Indeed not, although if it's been agreed upon IC and a character isn't coming it's appropriate to ask the person who took the quest to OOC'ly remove the PC who's not coming so they don't get XP.
This doesn't need to be discussed further, though. Paladins questing it up with evil PCs would be wrong for EFU. See threads elsewhere if you're unpersuaded, or suck it up and place your trust in the DM team's vision for the server.