Hey,
Some of you may have met me, Seithes Varyon.
First off, he was my first ever NWN character. I probably shouldnt have put all my plans into it but he's way messed up because I had no idea what I was doing lol
So, I'd like to make my original plans happen with a new character and I was hoping some experienced players could offer me some advice on how to go about it.
I'll be rolling a new guy on Friday. What stats should I give him? Last time i put it all into into intelligence(18) and wisdom(16), everything else was around 10 (except strength which was 8) and it worked very poorly for me..
I'm aiming for palemaster, perhaps eventually even lich so any idea what level I should be to ask for these kinds of things?
As for my cult, I had a fair number of players under me but I had a lot of trouble trying to get us a hideout. Trying to remain in the shadows but I need to make some kind of contribution to general roleplay too so any advice on how to keep my new PC from being discovered too early, recruit members and still be noticed enough to get a place would be good.
Anything else you can think of will be more than welcome.
i recommend 17 intelligence with a nice wisdom and con as upgrading animations leeches health and it would make sense for a necro with good con to be able to be more stronger. As for the group keep it completely secret only invite those into it that you have learned to trust or know are directly dedicated to your aimes
I would recommend that you crank that charisma up to represent his ability to exert his command over the undead!
Wisdom could actually be lower considering anyone who persues necromancy might not be the wisest person, especially arcane necromancy. That being said-
you shouldn't be concerned about building stats, you should be concerned about building a character.
Welcome to EfU! I'm likewise a fan of necromancy, it's in-your-face nasty evil. It's also very, very hard to play because most people (should) want to kill you. But if you play it smart, it's exceptionally rewarding.
As GodOfPain says, it's usually safest to be secret about necromancy. Then again, RP + smart play keeps you alive better than that extra 8 HP or 2 AC ever will. Don't worry so much about mechanics- figure out what tactics keep you breathing, which ones leave you in the fugue.
As for hideouts, there are dozens upon dozens all across the server. Just take one. Make a note of using it in your character journal. This is a good task for minions- send your people exploring! Have them report their findings with recommendations.
As for applications, send in your Palemaster App ASAP. Before you make the character is best! That gives the DMs time to watch how awesome you are and see why you deserve the prestige class. Lich, on the other hand, is a MAAASSIVE goal. Talk to the DMs about that. Expect a long, difficult road to such a goal. Definitely go for it, but by no means expect to achieve it. This server isn't about the destination, it's about the awesome journey!
I have one small recommendation. If you like evil and necromancy (I sure do!) try a non-wizard class instead. Cleric, if you want to be dogmatic and use better armor, weapons, etc. with even better necromancy spells. Maybe fighter/barbarian if you want to be a undeath cultist and have awesome survivability. Bard is a great choice too, with unique talents for being a great Necromancer. If you don't think these choices would be more fun, ignore that I said them.
Again, welcome to EfU! If you want to chat more, never hesitate to contact me via IRC.
EfU:A can be a tough nut to crack. If you want to delve into the lost arts of undeath and lichdom, there are very few NPCs on the Shrouded Isles who possess such knowledge, and you will get absolutely nowhere without their help.
If you want to approach those NPCs, your character should have plenty of natural Charisma. If you want to ask them questions, you should be able to Persuade them, as well. If you want to understand what they told you, then you must be well-versed in the Lore they will share with you. Finally, if you ever hope to put what they teach you into practice, you will need to understand Spellcraft.
While no PC has ever attained lichdom, it is not impossible. Take care of those four things first. Without them, you have no hope whatsoever of becoming a lich in this setting.
Don't forget, you could try the alchemical route!
I honestly have no idea exactly how fruitful that would be, but you can obviously delve your research into the necromantic fields available to you, and see what happens!
Lichdom is a very difficult goal. I do not believe there has ever been a player lich in EFU history. That said, do not be discouraged if you fall short - if it were easy, it wouldn't be worth having.
If you intend to play a wizard, a high Intelligence is a must. Your Constitution should also be high since you have such a low hit die. Make your Wisdom and Charisma at least 10, but no more than 12 - they won't help you mechanically. Nobody gave a crap about the guy who couldn't do Orcs 1. Strength isn't as big a deal for a Necromancer beyond carrying corpses (there are rare items available that might help you in this). If you have to melee things or rely on a crossbow, you're doing something wrong.
If you choose a cleric, research Valsharoon (you probably should anyways). Put at least 14 into strength, con, wisdom, and charisma (normally I'd say go 12 or even 10 for cha but you'll actually be somewhat good at turning if you pick the right domain, and there's enough undead mobs to warrant it).
In both builds make sure you get Greater Spell Focus Necromancy to modify undead.
Beyond that, the best advice I can give you is to focus on making an NPC ally who appreciates your stance on undeath. There are a lot of necromancers out there! You can probably find out a great deal by reading older posts. This character will provide you with not only quests and loot but also valuable information in your quest for lichdom.
The final parting advice I can offer is that there are a lot of lesser forms of sentient undeath that past players have actually achieved. If you are willing to compromise a bit, I think your odds of pulling this off are much more significant.
Good luck!
As far as alchemy goes, if you have both the Lore and Spellcraft skills you will be good at it (especially if you are a wizard). Even if you cannot find anything pertinent to your quest from undeath, lots of useful items can be made. It's well worth putting the effort in to learn about it.
Concentration is a must for both. Can't be forgetting your spells everytime an arrow lodges itself in your temple.
Healing and Lore is nice in the event you want to do Herbalism as well. I don't want to spoil it for you but characters that can do both really have a lot of options. Healing also pertains to your ability to handle delicate operations such as undead grafts. A very creative necromancer might be able to even build some sort of frankensteiny thing with DM help.
Don't neglect your EFUSS skills either!
Good luck! Again!
Come and join us on IRC Seithes, irc.darkmyst.org #efu , you can talk to us all in real time and personal message us with ease.
RPwise, and in order not to die, you need to ether:
a) Remain in cover
b) Get a powerfull ally. I'm talking of either a very powerfull PC who will kill anyone who threatens you (wich still places you at great risk) or a powerfull NPC. House Harvix likes undead, you could try looking there. If you can get the duke to recocnise you, Lord Harvix to sponsor you or something like that, you will be safe within the dominion, and can go "NECROMANCERS UNITE" publically, and not die, as long as you remain in the dominion unless it's necesary to leave
Mechanically wise I have a few tips on how to survive as a wizard
1) Be selfish with your buffs. Does the fighter in the frontline could use haste? well YOUR extended ghostly vissage takes priority. NO MATTER WHAT. Invisibility also, try to be invisible always, if imposible be invisible whenever there is a mayor threat. Wands of invisibility, darkness and ghostly vissage are your BFFs here. Especally the first one. Buy them, 1500 gold is well worth it.
2) Play a buffbot. While less fun, it's far safer to buff up, stay back and crush quests. Don't get near the enemy unless you are invisible or at least under ghostly vissage.
3)Don't strive to save the idiots. Many times my selfless wizard places himself in danger for attempting to save that airhead that insisted in rushing ahead into the fray. And many times i saved him, but others we would both die. ABANDON the idiots imo.
4) Even if not idiots, if it looks like it's going to be total party kill soon, just say "screw you all" and FLEE.
On necromancers:
1) Since you need scrolls to animate, frequent quests that drop them. You can also attempt to farm nighrtisers in the sewers. A few ways of doing this:
a) Find a group, while invisible, summon a shelegans persistant blade in front of you. Throw a fireball to the mob, as they come near flee and send your dagger to fight them, while they are distracted by it, cast another fireball. If thouse 2 fireballs don't kill them, just drink an invis potion and flee. ALWAYS KEEP A POTION OF INVISIBILITY QUICKSLOTED.
b) Go invisible, summon creatures, buff them up and lead them to the nightrisers.
This might eventually give you some scrolls and necromancer supplies.
But don't go animating unless you need to. And when you do, animate a corspe, don't just cast the spell. Orcs are awsome, Ogres are THE SHIT, kobolds are good too, and thouse can be purchased without going too far from the ziggy. Look arround. Remember to buff up your animates.
Do alchemy. There are neat thigns for necromancers you can get that way. But be carefull, buff up to avoid damage from failed experiments. Potions of polarity are a must if you are going to mess with sinester ingredients like negative esence and skeleton knuckles.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;234731RPwise, and in order not to die, you need to ether:
a) Remain in cover
b) Get a powerfull ally. I'm talking of either a very powerfull PC who will kill anyone who threatens you (wich still places you at great risk) or a powerfull NPC. House Harvix likes undead, you could try looking there. If you can get the duke to recocnise you, Lord Harvix to sponsor you or something like that, you will be safe within the dominion, and can go "NECROMANCERS UNITE" publically, and not die, as long as you remain in the dominion unless it's necesary to leave
Mechanically wise I have a few tips on how to survive as a wizard
1) Be selfish with your buffs. Does the fighter in the frontline could use haste? well YOUR extended ghostly vissage takes priority. NO MATTER WHAT. Invisibility also, try to be invisible always, if imposible be invisible whenever there is a mayor threat. Wands of invisibility, darkness and ghostly vissage are your BFFs here. Especally the first one. Buy them, 1500 gold is well worth it.
2) Play a buffbot. While less fun, it's far safer to buff up, stay back and crush quests. Don't get near the enemy unless you are invisible or at least under ghostly vissage.
3)Don't strive to save the idiots. Many times my selfless wizard places himself in danger for attempting to save that airhead that insisted in rushing ahead into the fray. And many times i saved him, but others we would both die. ABANDON the idiots imo.
4) Even if not idiots, if it looks like it's going to be total party kill soon, just say "screw you all" and FLEE.
On necromancers:
1) Since you need scrolls to animate, frequent quests that drop them. You can also attempt to farm nighrtisers in the sewers. A few ways of doing this:
a) Find a group, while invisible, summon a shelegans persistant blade in front of you. Throw a fireball to the mob, as they come near flee and send your dagger to fight them, while they are distracted by it, cast another fireball. If thouse 2 fireballs don't kill them, just drink an invis potion and flee. ALWAYS KEEP A POTION OF INVISIBILITY QUICKSLOTED.
b) Go invisible, summon creatures, buff them up and lead them to the nightrisers.
This might eventually give you some scrolls and necromancer supplies.
But don't go animating unless you need to. And when you do, animate a corspe, don't just cast the spell. Orcs are awsome, Ogres are THE SHIT, kobolds are good too, and thouse can be purchased without going too far from the ziggy. Look arround. Remember to buff up your animates.
Do alchemy. There are neat thigns for necromancers you can get that way. But be carefull, buff up to avoid damage from failed experiments. Potions of polarity are a must if you are going to mess with sinester ingredients like negative esence and skeleton knuckles.
1. Do not be selfish with your buffs. Use invis pots and stand in the back. If the warriors die, YOU will die. Also adventurers don't like selfish wizards.
2. Play a buffbot.
3. Let idiots die, but do place yourself in danger to save party members. Invis pots are your friend. Always beg for invis pots. DOn't be ashamed to beg for healing supplies, invis pots, or anything else that can keep you alive or lend you support. If your following rule 1, they should be glad to do this since frontliners have minimal PVE use for invis pots unless things go very bad.
4. If it looks like a TPW, do flee. But wait until your sure. people will tolerate cowardice in a mage, but not if you running away instead of throwing down a heal RESULTS in the TPW.
A good rule of thumb I have btw, is to use moderate or serious healing if a target is listed as injured or badly injured, but not before.
Also be mindful of your surroundings, situational awareness is a very valuable skill.
PS: Try not to play a dick dastardly, if people are ambivilant about killing you because they happen to like your necromancer personally despite his evil evil practices, you will live longer.
...maybe i was a bit harsh. But i'll stand for what i said. Once you are more used to the server, you can begin to take more risks and become more usefull.
also try to find those with similar goals, as well as trying to get people to like you so they never suspect you of trying anything such as necromancy. Also on alchemy and herbalism watch out there are so many nasty combination's that require so high of skills to work and if they don't kill you. "trust me" im not going to tell you any combination's as that would be spoiling the fun of discovering the stuff on your own but i can tell you some results like for instance i mixed many crazy ingredients that were negative "not telling which ones" the result required so high of skills that i failed miserably and it resulted in a demon reaching out and blasting me with a negative wave that did 167 points of damage even with all my protections and then unsummoned. I will admit even though upset from the failure and level loss i was excited at finding such a potent mix and seeing its awesome failure it was really cool. Also i do not advise leaving idiots and having witnesses s a very nasty result usually unless the others agree with letting the fool die. Also another thing if you plan to become a lich or palemaster i suggest doing a whole lot of study on body grafts and of course necromancy in general and start stocking up on negative essences and the like. Also learn a lot of stuff in healing skill and others around that as said earlier those are related to body grafting and are quite important for such things.
On getting attention of DMs other than telling them before you make the character i suggest you make a lot of public shows without the source being known as you. Such as finding a well known PC and having him killed if possible then making a gruisome public scene such as leaving his body laying in the orphanage with a note scrawled with his blood laying there saying some scary message or even better leave a message on the floor or walls with his entrails "for walls having them nailed there in position". Other ways to get noticed maybe get lots of members and (not too many as that may lead to public notice). Also perhaps have your character get pretty powerful first as to increase the strength and possibilities to the point where your goal may be possible.
While I wont argue with any of the suggestions above, I will say that mechanics do not make a wonderful character and to achieve the goals you highlight in your post you need play a wonderful character. Rolling along crushing quests and not acting on your goals before you reach level X will not be in your favour. I suggest going for your goals, and acting as your character would act from the get go. We are roleplaying after all and moving from Evil necromantic wizard with a penchant for animating the dead to redundant wizard buff bot just rings untrue, at least to me. Make allies, create rivalry and enemies and get moving to fulfil your goals.
Select your stats and spells as they fit your character, we aren't playing World of Warcraft here. Flavour beats function in all situations and roleplaying your stats is a great place to start. Is your character physically weak but with a keen mind and a knockout personality? Is he old, young? Would it be in character to provide buffs and wardings for your team mates, or would you be more concerned with blowing up enemies and stealing their souls?
Try not to get too involved in the mechanical side of your character and focus more on how and why you will be aiming for your goals. This will, at least in my opinion, allow for a lasting and influential character that provides something more to the server than simply Buff bot x necromancer that fails at the first hurdle.
Good luck!
Thanks everyone :D I have a much better idea of it all now. Lots of great info ^_^
I can't wait to get him started. Only thing I can think to ask now is..
You guys have mentioned worshiping necromantic gods. Can anyone point me to a guide about deities? What benefits I'd get, how to worship one.. how to find these gods or related stuff in game?
Do I just look for it in the list in the OOC area and get a desc there? I went faithless last time so its total unknown for me.
Also, I like the idea of jumping on IRC and asking but I'd probably never stop asking questions lol It's good here though, all these big explanations and I can re-read them :) honestly, I have a 7 phase plan and a text file called necro cookbook full of my ideas. I'd ask about details for all of em xD Dont wanna spoil the surprise though ;)
I am all for developing my character and I am dying to roleplay an awesome evil overlord. However, its hard to be evil and badass when you just got owned by a rat :-/
Had several run ins, some due to my own ignorance others due to me being so weak. Also I had done stuff like writting my history in my description. Dont know what I was thinking lol. I just want to make him right so I can be capable of what I am looking for.
There is a section in the forums with Information for new players which include a section on deities.
QuoteHowever, its hard to be evil and badass when you just got owned by a rat :-/
This, this, a thousand times this. anyone who says "Build isn't important" is either A: trolling you, B: not very good at the game or C: Good enough at the game to be able to do well with anything half way capable, and can't remember what it's like to be new and make a 10 Con Fighter with weapon finesse and a bastard sword or something. As for stats, you do not have to have a paragraph long justification for every point you invest.
If you take one thing away from this thread though, take this:
You Need Supplies Too. Don't let the goons have them all. Even a mage wants a couple of strength potions in case they have to move a body. Blurs in case they get dispelled. Insulation for defence, even if you are invised, you can get hit by the AoE. And of course, haste. Buy some hastes, they let you cast twice a round and have more AC. That saves your spells for Blow Someone's head Off. Also hoard Negative Energy devices to heal your zombies with.
If you like the wizard play style, but want to be a bit tougher, I'd recommend a Cleric of Velsharoon. Between Magic and Evil Domains, you can play the PC with more offensive spells than "clobber him" attacks.
Generic Evil Wizard: 14 CON and 16 INT are a good start. Buff Intelligence at L4 and 8. Stick the rest of the points as you see fit, but DEX is quite useful for AC against shooters. Take GSF Necromancy for spell DCs and to make your zombies more powerful. Take Extend Spell because it's really, really useful with Blur, flame wep etc. Maybe you'll want Spell Focus or GSF Conjuration if you like conjuring Spirits (mage summons) or Shadows (flank attack summons).
Invisibility is overrated, far better on many quests is to stay back, Blurred and be careful. As Drakill says, it is best to make sure you, personally have enough buffs and stun spells to survive spice or trouble.Plus, buffing and hiding in invis is boring. You can still heal visibly. A good mage has the right buffs and heals people. A REALLY good mage uses damage, Darkness, hastes at the right point, and stuns from loot or spells on top of that to make things easy.
If the enemy can't reach you through the fighters, it doesn't matter if they can see you. Just invis if something closes and locks on to you. Also, Blur and positioning leaves you able to cast offensive spells like Colour Spray, Burning Hands etc, which are very good if aimed well. Ray of Enfeeblement is also a good trick if you can hit a boss or tough monster with it.
Spell School: Necromancy means you can't cast Divinations so you want to hoard See Invisibility potions, wands, devices.
A few spells i recomend:
Darkness is like mass improved invisibility + inmunity to ranged attacks for a few rounds. You can cast it in your tanks to give them a BIG edge over the monsters if they have ultravision, or you can use it to save them. Even if cast form a wand, 3 rounds of 50% conealment and no ranged attackers tends to save them. It also looks dark and evil- good for a necromancer. All that is aplicable to your mage. Darkness is 2x better with mass ultravision.
Color spray is another good one. If you cast protection vs your alignment your firends are inmune to it, and you can cast it over them, that is, from the safety of their backs, not having to risk yourself. If you are evil just cast magic circle vs evil as you would anyway because all enemies in quests are evil anyway, and you're good.
Thouse two are among my favorites.
I think i already mentioned it, but you want wands of invisibility, dakrness and hold person.
The first one can save you if things get very tough, allow you to walk near your buddies and heal them even if it's far too dangerous with blur alone, and also can save a tank who is getting raped in the frontline or that is running away from a mob. Egon, it's not overated.
Darkness is usefull as hell, as it can save your whole party, or give them a big, big edge even if only for 3 rounds. If you've got ppl with sneak attack in your party, they'll destroy everything.
Hold person is very usefull against many bosses. A few of them land criticals arround 50 damage, so 3 rounds of them not attacking is a huge relief. Even more, it's 3 rounds of your tanks attacking them, with sneak-attackers it can be enough to kill them. This is aplicable to any strong humanoid enemy, though. Ogres come in mind. It really, REALLY helps out. On PvP it might, the DC is low and the round duration low as well, so they are good, just not wonderfull, especially since you need to dispell PfE before using them.
You might want to get wands of hold monster if you get the chance. Very expensive, but can save you in a DM event if there is something big and nasty comming at you or your buddies.
I'm also fan of resist elements wands (or however the level 1 spell is called) They are cheap enough and save you and your friends from elemental attacks.
Avoid magic missile, negative energy and most ofensive low level spell wands. The DMs won't listen when i tell them they are worthless and useless, but they are. A cantrip wand or two MIGHT come in handy. I've heard players tell me they've killed DM event bosses with them, but honestly i've never found them usefull.
When it comes to alchemy
Many reagents can be usefull. If you manage to make alchemists fire, the ditto flame weapon can come in handy, just make sure you hand them out to the tanks, and tell them how and when to use them. chocking powder can also be usefull. Laughing gas and more advanced granede-likes are VERY usefull, should you get the recipie for them.
There are also ways of making summoning reagents that go +1 or even +2. I know there was one that allows you to summon undead +2 (so casting summon creature 3 would instead summon what summon creature 5 would) probably gone now, it was changed with the new alchemy sistem. But if something similar exists, you totally want to go for it. Howland says there are up to +3 summoning reagents. Get to level 11, summon creature 9. Shit yeah.
And then there are thouse items that let you cast unlimited cantrips. They come in handy.
etc.
Quote from: Seithes;234789You guys have mentioned worshiping necromantic gods. Can anyone point me to a guide about deities? What benefits I'd get, how to worship one.. how to find these gods or related stuff in game?
What you are looking for is here (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=38%22).
I think he means what IC action he should take to worship them IG.
If so, it depends on the god. But something you can do with all is to SPEAK. speeches atop the ziggurat or in the docks or whatever. But you can also follow the dogma. Jergal? DEATH TO ALL UNAUTHROISED NECROMANCERS, Velsharoon? Look down upon everything alive and speak about how undead is paradise, order, perfection, etc.
In terms of survivability, you can't go wrong with downloading a character creator module and testing your builds out on monsters. EFU mechanics will be slightly different but you can get a good sense of what kind of feats/spells/skills work well together. This is the one I use. http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Modules.Detail&id=3704 There is also a CEP version if you know what that means.
As a general rule I would say good RP > good Build (but you def want both if possible). The better you become communicating your character the more likely you are to find a minion who will kill rats for you or a DM that will give you the ultra-rat-slayer-10,000.
Remember you begin this game -very- weak and it will take a long time for you to become strong enough to go out on your own. Make friends with people who know what they are doing. Play an interesting personality and be a survivor above all else. If that means fleeing from even common dangers at times, swallow your pride. Someday I promise, you will make all the rats pay.