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I'd like to hear the playerbase's opinion on this somewhat.

I have always seen rangers favored enemy as a very personal, very important choice to their class.  It explains a lot about their background, why they adventure, the choices they make.  

We as DM's get to see what people pick for their favored enemy when they choose Ranger as their class.  I like having a look when I see rangers rolling around.  It gives us as a DM's a bit of an insight into what you're all about.  

However, 99% of the playerbase always seem to pick one specific creature in their favored enemy list, and I'll only give you a single guess as to what creature that is.  

I do believe there should be a rationale behind your favored enemy.  Understand this is my personal opinion, not that of the DM team.  

But right now it is done for one reason and one reason alone.  Mechanical superiority in PvP.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter.  But I am curious to hear some thoughts.

I do believe that there should be some backstory explaining why you've taken FE - Human.  Yes.

There should be rational. In my opinion, it doesn't neccesarily mean they hate that species; it could mean that they're just familiar with it. For example, a ranger who hunts defectors from his human Baron in a human-only nation would probably have FE: Human because he hunts them down a lot.

I played one ranger; Rob Darkspell. His FE's were Undead and Human. Undead is because he hates undead and studied their weaknesses as he saw them as an abberational use of the Weave. That's the traditional hate.
However, he also had FE Human. Mechanically, the reason is obvious; PvP (though I was playing a gimp build on him, lol). I did have what I felt was a very good justification, however. As a talented healer, he would know more about human anatomy than the average joe ranger, having patched himself up and others through it quite often. It would stand to reason that he would learn something from it as he does so; perhaps how to shoot a bit better with his bow (or rather, what to target), or where there's a sensative joint? Thus his second FE.

There has to be justification, but it can't be as flimsy as "oh, he's human, he'd probably know how to hurt another one of them. We naked apes have killed eachother for X thousand years; if we don't know something about it, we're all Eldathans, ain't we?". That's just bad RP.

Capricious' ranger Ghost was one of the finest examples of Favored Enemy I have ever seen. Not only killing them but goading them, leaving a mark, pursuing and hunting them at every turn.

A known human murderer could have FE Human in that same regard. A lawman maybe if he lived in a pretty human society, leaving a trail of corpses and more. Etc.

I'd just ask people who have FE Human to make it more...

Flashy?

Showmanship is a lot of feat RP and should be used more.

Loose ranger powers if they do not show the appropriate HATRED to their chosen race imo

The interesting thing is, ranger FE mods truly promotes pure rangers. But as you get to higher levels, where you are already more and more powerful (Especially with some pure classes, based on their bonuses already) The FE becomes overkill, especially in PvP. +4 AB is pretty big.

I don't think HATRED is necessary. For example, a hunter that ranges the wilds and has FE: Animals seems appropriate. In the past, we've had engineering ranger-multis who studied golems and animatrons and had FE Construct (also appropriate).

But significant and sustained focus to justify whatever you choose is important, in my opinion.

Of course, I don't mind the abundance of FE Humans, as for me it just makes the exception to that stand out all the more.

QuoteThe FE becomes overkill, especially in PvP. +4 AB is pretty big.

I suppose it doesn't hurt to mention that it's been on the list to nerf/adjust for months! It will be reduced to +1 per 3 ranger levels eventually. So yeah.

I currently play a ranger. And have FE: Human.
 
My thoughts... right, wrong or indifferent... FE does NOT mean "hated" it means "favored".
 
My own reasons are part of his back ground, but they are pretty obvious.. self loathing. He has self loathing and major anomosity towards his FE's, that guide his actions.
 
Of course, I was aware of a mechanical advantage regarding humans. And I think with that comes some inherent responsibility. Just because you CAN do something, does not mean you SHOULD.
 
Anyway, all I got without tipping my hand on my current PC overly much.
 
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EDIT:  I respectfully, disagree with the +4 being overpowered. It allows a ranger to not take WF: X Weapon, and be awesome against his favored enemies. It allows that one feat to be used in something else. If you change that, it will be (somewhat) compensated by WF: X weapon and I think you will see more cookie-cutter rangers.

Favored may as well mean hated, imo. As in, if you are in a new area, hit /c tracking, and see your FE in the list of enemies...that should be the first thing you make a beeline for above all others. An enemy that's at the top of your most wanted list.
 
Why do most rangers pick FE: Human? Mechanics absolutely plays a factor. If you're lucky, it's also justifiable ICly. My Stargazer's favored enemies are Shapechangers and Humans. And while they both make sense given my Gazer's goals and history, I won't say it doesn't feel a bit cheap all the same.
 
Hatred may not have to be the necessity for choosing a FE enemy. But it should impact a little more upon a PC than whenever they decide to enter PvP. A hunter that 'used to hunt humans for his lord but doesn't anymore since he teleported to the Zig' doesn't really need FE: Human, if you ask me.

My opinions is it can be hatred towards a foe or experience/study in fighting it.  For example, my elf gladiator was a pure ranger with Fe: Elf and Fe:Human.  Elf was to represent his hated and experience in hunting drow whereas his fighting humans in the pits had given him practice against them.

The last ranger I played was a pure class with FE: Halflings and Humans. Why? Because these are the two most prevalent races for thieves, and I was playing a merchant. I wanted to be able to spot them sneaking up. Remember FE is more than just AB.

The way I see it, it's what you mostly fight. My insatiably hungry halfling Malarite, Bucky, had FE: Animal as he kept killing, cooking and eating anything that moved. He then took FE: Human as he converted to Malar and spent his time guarding a Cleric against other humans. I'd expect a bounty hunter or soldier to have FE: Human as that's what he mostly faces. You might have a gnome with FE: Kobold for logical RP reasons but he'll rarely use it in a serious fight. IMO FE is similar to Weapon Spec. You wouldn't make a Fighter with Weapon Spec: Halberd then spend all your time using a greatsword because it's a better weapon. Similarly taking two Favoured Enemies that never turn up on EFU seems a waste. Luckily you get another at 5 so it's possible to take a "RP" Enemy and a mechanically useful one.

Felt like a kid with my hand in the biscuit tin getting called on this one.
 
As I came up with the character for my ranger I knew I wanted FE human for mechanical reasons.  Running on the logic I never look for PvP and when I get into it, I lose, I wanted to make a char that would be happier to seek PvP out and decided on something simple and ubiquitous, hunting down those that hunt for any reason other than food.  Being a predominantly human population, I figured these would be human hunters.  

I can see why FE human might be seen as improper, taking the feat before the man hunting and all.  Being restricted to taking the feat at lvls 1 and 5, I decided to go with it early and justify later, rather than let game mechanics restrict me later when I ought to be skilled at hunting humans.

I'd be interested to know what people make of this kind of thinking.  For me, it was an imperfect solution in an imperfect system.

I'll admit that on one or two of my ranger PCs (actually, I don't think I had that many), I molded my character's story/background to fit the mechanical advantage of FE: Human.

I'm not as much interested myself in whatever backstory you have for taking the favored enemy, as I have for what you do for it now.

Someone who spent his life hunting and killing goblins but has favored enemy human makes as much sense to me as the trained carpenter suddenly excelling as a computer engineer after graduation.

To provide a bit of extra incentive to avoid powerpicking FE: Human, perhaps a small smattering of ranger items could be added that require pure ranger and FE: X enemy.

For example, a mighty spear enchanted by the Githyanki to impale illithid, usable only by pure rangers with FE: Aberration, or an enhanced poacher's bow used to cut down Stargazers that requires pure ranger and FE: halfling.

When the ranger change is made, have a script check if it's FE: human or FE: anything else.  Gives you +1/2 lvls for non-human FEs, +1/3 levels for human, probably will see like a 5% shift toward other favored enemies.

It comes down to these simple questions, what will you fight the most? What levels will you fight them? Will they be consistently dangerous throughout your career?

If you outgrow your FE because you can no longer find them in dangerous amounts or dangerous levels, then the ability isn't worth it. You don't take a level 1 feat that you wont use past level 3. Especially not on an ability that is game changing. Ab 1/3 levels is that much more of the most important number on your character sheet.

This is only my thinking and nothing to do about others choices.

I can only imagine that someone chooses FE human so that they can use it in PvP. I never consider making a PC to PvP but to at least survive a quest more often than the PC before that. As there are few humans to fight in quests, I can't imagine taking it.

I would consider an evil ranger to potentially pick FE Human. This is on track as a killer that they are. How many PC's are made that used to chase after escaped bandits that needed to be taken down? I suppose I see FE as killing and not just catching and returning to jail for example.

My one Ranger on EFUA was an undead hunter from the beginning and then chose orcs for his second FE due to the Ymph having many of them about. That made sense to me and I had never imagined taking FE human till I read some forum notes about it.  Who'd a thought ...

In all honesty, rangers don't make good pvpers(blah blah blah, it's my opinion) but having favored enemy makes it a lot of fun to go hunting whatever your FE is. Say it's goblins. You could just go out in small parties hunting for your enemy. It makes it good for adventuring, and intrigue.

When I played my ranger on the new server, he had FE: Animals because he was a "beastmaster" build.  I was laughed at oocly for not choosing humans.  It not only made sense IC, but also mechanically when I was trying to AE a Dire Cave Bear or Ymphian Sabre Tiger and didn't hit it on the first try (as rare as that was! XD).

I will also sort of reiterate Howland's mention that if you choose something other than FE: (Bleh), the Dms will notice, and appreciate it.

I remembered a dwarf pest exterminator that had FE:Vermin

We had some good lolz

Quote from: AKMatt;228184When the ranger change is made, have a script check if it's FE: human or FE: anything else.  Gives you +1/2 lvls for non-human FEs, +1/3 levels for human, probably will see like a 5% shift toward other favored enemies.

I think this would be a good direction to go. Humans are probably the most varied and widespread of the races, I do not really see how someone who specializes in hunting them is just as good as a ranger who specializes in a lot of the other choices.

I would think having humans at even +1/4 levels, other PC races at +1/3, everything else at +1/2, and half-elves at +9/1 would be better.

Quote from: derflaro;228210half-elves at +9/1 would be better.

Those elven whores

Quote from: Seanzie;228202In all honesty, rangers don't make good pvpers(blah blah blah, it's my opinion)

Your opinion is wrong.

As for the nerf on FE: Human, it's probably a good idea.

I've never managed to think of a good reason for a PC to have FE human other than the age-old argument of 'manhunter'.

Considering the abundance of rangers with this feat, there are very few manhunters out there.

Favoured Enemy does not mean, in my eyes- particular hatred. In most cases.

It /can/ mean such, but frankly- what it all is about, is about the ranger excelling in being particularly skilled not only at BASHING THE CRAP out of the chosen FE, but also-
Tracking them.
Knowing their customs.
Knowing their psyche/behaviour.
Studying them.
And most importantly - Understanding them (this does not persay mean to agree with the FE's ways, of course.)

I tend to fall into the whole 'Hatred' bag of FE's when I'm picking FE for my rangers. Into the simple pattern of Race X did something nasty to my PC in the past-> my PC swore to hunt them down, etc. Perhaps it's boring.

And frankly, with the FE: Human, I /can/ picture most of the wilderness/ Old Ways rangers having it. Since humans are the most numerous race in the realms. Since humans stand for the ever-spreading civilization. Burn trees, 'civilize' the wilds, yadda, yadda, yadda. Being a plague.

 Like with the Ziggurat. Aside of the PC's, there's how many human NPC's there? The colony is mostly human. Everyday, when I walk the server as a wilderness PC, I picture once in a while seeing NPC hunters. Seeing NPC farmers. NPC patrols. Perhaps I'm wrong in doing so, but IMO- there is more to this than just picturing the single Armada/Order PC's to represent the whole.

But this said, there needs to be a reason. A backstory reason. Good reason.

And I agree with the nerf.

Ebok gets it. In EfU, the most numerous NPC enemies are Orcs, Undead, Animals, Halflings and Humans. You might want to make a ranger with FE: Gnome or FE: Fey, but not only will you rarely if ever get the mechanical benefit, you won't get the RP benefit. You may as well take GSF Enchantment on a sorc whose only Enchantment spell is Daze. That said, unless you have an extreme RP reason for taking two rare favoured enemies, you may as well pick the second as a result of your experience fighing X on Ymph a lot.

What would be good is to explain what races some of the EFU custom mobs (like plant monsters) are, so that people who haven't used Tracking can understand what to build for if you want to make a hunter of them.

Too bad theres no way to change favored enemy so that you have to choose specific races of humans the same way you have to choose varities of reptilian and monsters.

Quote from: derflaro;228210I think this would be a good direction to go. Humans are probably the most varied and widespread of the races, I do not really see how someone who specializes in hunting them is just as good as a ranger who specializes in a lot of the other choices.

I would think having humans at even +1/4 levels, other PC races at +1/3, everything else at +1/2, and half-elves at +9/1 would be better.

Even though I agree that +1/2 is likely OP I don't see the logic in giving humans preferential treatment here.  Humans aren't as different from one another as a cockatoo and a great lizard.   +1/3 round the board seems like a decent bonus without going nuts.

QuoteI would think having humans at even +1/4 levels, other PC races at +1/3, everything else at +1/2, and half-elves at +9/1 would be better.

As a player that prefers rangers. I like this. ALOT
 
I agree that some of it has to be thought out.. my very first PC on EFU:A was a ranger.  I took FE: Vermin, because thats is typically all low level PCs fight, and I wanted to get a feel for the server.  Alas, after 4th level, it was a useless feat.

QuoteEven though I agree that +1/2 is likely OP I don't see the logic in  giving humans preferential treatment here.  Humans aren't as different  from one another as a cockatoo and a great lizard.   +1/3 round the  board seems like a decent bonus without going nuts.

Admittedly they are not as different as your example, and logically it isn't infallible, but leaving it at +1/3 across the board is not going to stop everyone from taking humans much more often than everything else.

As for the half-elf joke, no one would take FE: half-elves still even if that were a reality.

I can't seem to get a picture of it and lack a scanner but theres a picture in one of the sourcebooks with a bunch of humans all standing side by side and it demonstrates just how different they are physically and also if you read into them how different they act as well! So yeah some humans will be as different as a Great Lizard and a cockatrice.

IMO the decision is and always will be mechanical. The reasoning is simple, PvP the majority of the time on EFU decides if you live or die. Whether it be a 1v1, or a gank squad most people on the server play humans, it makes sense to want to survive, it makes sense to want to win and not just roll over.

Up to +4ab vs Humans is a huge advantage, it also allows you to play around with your build, you can be a crush bot. But you can also place more attributes into other skills, such as INT WIS CHA CON and not worry that your ab won’t be up to scratch for PvP.
I think what defines characters however, is how you role play it. Both my rangers had a reason behind FE human beyond mechanics. One wanted to become a Ruby Hunter, a black harper he sought to make the counts men fear him as freedom fighters fear rubies. The other was a crazy ass son of bitch who ate people, enjoyed hunting them, enjoyed making them play sick games.
I don’t see this feat as a hatred, but more as the name says. It is an enemy you prefer to hunt, granted it is cheese, it can be lame to come across someone with more ab than a pure fighter buffed who is higher level.

I think the better solution here would be to motivate people to choose other FE’s, it only takes one person to show what is possible by not cheesing for others to want to follow suit.

I've taken FE Human on my ranger, given the vast array of human characteristics he obviously didn't hate *all* humans; he hated Stygians, who were generally human, hence he took it...
 
I felt that was "enough" to warrant chosing FE Human, not sure what the DM's think.
 
If I could have chosen FE: Stygians, or Lawful Evil, I would have.
 
As an aside on this, having two or even three if you hit 10, FE's seems silly to me, its a bit like:
 
"Oh yeah i hate goblins... know what... I also hate magical beasts... oh oh yeah... and dragons hate them also"
 
Would be better if it was just one FE and people focused their concepts that way in my opinion

[takes FE: Sending Warrior]

Yalta, you don't have to hate a FE. If you want berzerk vengeful rage... play a barb. Why would a hunter hate animals? They're his livelihood, he's just very very good at killing them. The same for a Helmite Guard concept with FE halfling to spot Halfling Rogues trying to sneak abour. Take a second one, you've got practice in fighting something else. Feasible, considering how EfU regularly pits you against the same race of mobs. With 1 FE, you'd have a total split between"mechanical FE" of stuff you might actually fight and "Gimpy RP FE" of Gnome Slayers.

To me the problem isn't in the choice but rather the result and the reason of that choice. People like to see the changes in effect, they like to witness their feats in action, and the easiest way to do that is to select something you'll fight often and build a simple little story around it as an excuse (like we've seen in many posts prior to this).

The only real solution is to provide more things for people to fight in the FE categories. I bet quite a few people would love to be a Dragon hunting ranger, or even stomp on some outsiders, but when it will only be used once in that PCs life in a 15-30 minute fight or throughout a low end quest and probably never again, why? Provide some whelps, aberrations, drow, outsiders, and other things in some new high end quests or strong random spawns and you'll probably see a few more of those selections arise.

The second option is of course to just ignore it. They are the strongest class in EFUA (don't debate it) but they are rarely causing any sort of turmoil or issues due to this AB bonus.

FYI - They aren't the strongest class in EFUA.

Honestly, I hate the idea of a nerf to FE's.  I very much like the idea of items that can only be used by Rangers with a particular FE, with the caveat being of course that it was impossible to find said item for FE - Humans.

FE selection should represents a ranger's extroadinary skill in hunting down and killing particular races or monsters. This extroadinary skill should be derived from sheer practice, and the practice should consequently be a derivative of sustained circumstancial need and/or emotional dedication (racial hatred being the most common).

So basically unless your PC regularly hunts down and slays humans because its his a job (bounty hunter, assassin, etc) or does so out of a sense of -racial- hatred or vengeance (Eldruth Veluuthra elf for example) then IMO you should definitely not take it.

Ofc. in the post above Egon is suggesting taking FE: Halfling 'because you spot halfling thieves good' as a viable Ranger concept LOL.

I mandate only that we rename the Ranger class to FE: Humans

Quote from: BeteNoire;228310The second option is of course to just ignore it. They are the strongest class in EFUA (don't debate it) but they are rarely causing any sort of turmoil or issues due to this AB bonus.

You mean allow players to play their game without passing judgement on their choices?  I won't hear of it!

Quote from: Caddies;228314Ofc. in the post above Egon is suggesting taking FE: Halfling 'because you spot halfling thieves good' as a viable Ranger concept LOL.

Go on EFUSS. What's the most common class for a halfling, I'll bet? One with Stealth. It's rare to see a halfling PC who doesn't have stealth except for mages. Stargazers are renowned as sneaky. Halflings have a reputation for devious combat and theft, so it's logical to be trained to spot the race of people who are really good at hiding in corners. As Yalta points out, you can't take FE:Rogue, so you take the 2 races most likely to be hiding.

It definitely is viable for a concept, that's why my last merchant PC had it. Most of the PCs he called out for sneaking around the docks looking shifty, were, unsurprisingly halflings. He didn't hate halflings, he just always mistrusted them slightly and tended to watch his wallet around them.

QuoteHe didn't hate halflings, he just always mistrusted them slightly and tended to watch his wallet around them.

I rest my case.

I just want to point out, that Ive never played a Ranger with Favored Enemy Human, well, not since the class gave the additional ab bonus'.

I always thought that it would've been more interesting to have the Favored Enemy work more like perk packages, rather then a flat attack bonus. You could easily set the more useful natural Fe choices as weaker, and give secondary benefits for other choices. Only Rangers get so many that it doesn't make this very viable.

In PnP 3 and 3.5 you have to be evil to select your own race as a favored enemy. In 4e they did away with FE but gave a damage boost to their hunted target, Ive always found that was successfully balanced.

You could always push the bonus gained on ab lower and increase the skill set side of things, too. Figured I'd toss some other use ideas into the mix.

Quote from: Twelve;228244As a player that prefers rangers. I like this. ALOT
 
I agree that some of it has to be thought out.. my very first PC on EFU:A was a ranger.  I took FE: Vermin, because thats is typically all low level PCs fight, and I wanted to get a feel for the server.  Alas, after 4th level, it was a useless feat.

There are frustratingly good vermin all over the server, some of which are very powerful enemies. BEHEMOTHS, if you will.

Really, there are only 6-8 different FEs I'd even consider taking on the server. Granted, that's better than what I would have taken on EfU pre-Archipelago (FE: Aberrations, Constructs, Lycanthropes anyone?).

Would it be possible to remove ranger bonuses from working against PCs? The problem is that people are worried about being PvP viable/beefy rangers, and understandably so. Die to orcs, you can respawn. Die to a player and your story is over. Clearly, we want to keep these aspects of our server, so if anything is going to be fixed make it the problem, that FE: human makes level 8-10 rangers ridiculously good in PvP.

Plus, I like the comment made earlier regarding special items vs. enemies as reward for ACTUALLY abiding by your favored enemy and roleplaying it appropriately. These would work in PvP against PCs.

Edit Addendum: +3 ab at level 9 is still very, very good. That's not an absurd or unreasonable alteration (corrected)

Quote from: Garem;228353Edit Addendum: +3 ab/dam at level 9 is still very, very good. That's not an absurd or unreasonable alteration

I was only aware the change to FE here is the AB bonus, all the other bonuses are +1 per 5 levels???

Do note- FE human can be beat, I recently did it- So it isnt really that OP just when every ranger takes it- you just now know, they are more mechanicaly minded then rp minded.

Exactly, there's no Win Build on EfU. I don't see how it's any more OP than rage in most fights anyway. +2 damage is on a par with Weapon Spec and more limited as it's to race of target, which you don't control, not weapon armed, which you do. The AB is good yeah, but I'd hate to see it nerfed as it's one of the great reasons to play a ranger in that it compensates for low stats. You can have 12s and 14s across the board and be dangerous. Not to mention that the +ab really helps you stand a chance as a shooty PC using stuff like Rapid/Called shots.

Perhaps a better change would be to cap the FE AB to something like 2 +/- Int Modifier, to cut down on powerbuilds. Int also makes sense in that you're coming up with cunning ways to fight said enemy.

I don't understand the hate disdain on taking it, TBH. It's not "better RP" to take a FE you never get the chance to RP, or take a nonsensical FE ("I am a military scout Ranger who fights soldiers, whoops better take FE Aberration").  What feels off is rangers who don't do any scouting or tracking, and appear to have built themselves purely to crush duels by using FE in unbuffed fights.

Summing up, I've always thought it's better to reward people who take a weaker choice for a good reason, than to nerf a popular thing and catch the normal PCs as well as the unforgivable crushbots. EDIT: Actually, in that way, FE Human rangers and +vs Human gear serve as a bonus to taking a nonhuman playerrace.

QuoteI don't understand the hate on taking it, TBH.

I think it's a bit dramatic to call it "hate."

Allow me to quote the only DM comments in this thread -

QuoteI do believe there should be a rationale behind your favored enemy. Understand this is my personal opinion, not that of the DM team.

But right now it is done for one reason and one reason alone. Mechanical superiority in PvP.

Ultimately it doesn't really matter. But I am curious to hear some thoughts.

And myself.

QuoteBut significant and sustained focus to justify whatever you choose is important, in my opinion.

Of course, I don't mind the abundance of FE Humans, as for me it just makes the exception to that stand out all the more.

Talir -

QuoteI'm not as much interested myself in whatever backstory you have for taking the favored enemy, as I have for what you do for it now.

Someone who spent his life hunting and killing goblins but has favored enemy human makes as much sense to me as the trained carpenter suddenly excelling as a computer engineer after graduation.

There are some other good points raised in this thread, as well, but I do find some players can get a bit too over-sensitive when they feel the choices they make are being criticized.

Quote from: Relinquish;228356I was only aware the change to FE here is the AB bonus, all the other bonuses are +1 per 5 levels???

Ah, I stand corrected. Not sure why I thought that.

Better yet, Make pc's earn thier ab bonus? If they do not show signs of tracking down thier quary of searching to disable thier foes or even, mentioning that they hunt said creature then they should lose thier AB bonus. So people whom just have FE so that they can look pro in duels get slapped in the face.

There's a pretty thin line between promoting good RP and condemning an arguable perception of bad RP.  I recently spoke to a friend IG who was on the verge of quitting over the latter, and may well have followed through if they didn't have the encouragement of supportive players.

My initial reaction to this FE thing was an amused, "holy shit, I've been scolded!"  As this thread grew and I thought more about it, I made the connection between this kind of criticism and my friend. At that point I started to get annoyed at certain attitudes, and realised that there may be a problem.

Everyone plays EfU to have fun, and the standard of RP is consistently very high compared to just about any other server I've been on.  Discouragement, in what is not exactly a rapidly growing player-base, is not a good move when the vast majority of players do put in quite a bit of effort in their own way. [/rant]

Sorry for the derailment, but it's been playing on my mind.  Thought it might benefit folks to think about. >_>

Everytime you kill(not subdue) a favored enemy you gain +1 ab for 1 turn(60 seconds)/level the effect stacks and is capped by your ranger level. Problem solved and even gives more ab for pve(where most fe's work outside of human)

Quote from: TheImpossibleDream;228441Everytime you kill(not subdue) a favored enemy you gain +1 ab for 1 turn(60 seconds)/level the effect stacks and is capped by your ranger level. Problem solved and even gives more ab for pve(where most fe's work outside of human)

Dreaded fate for a ranger with FE: dragon.

This isn't a thread to discuss mechanical adjustments (which won't happen, for a variety of reasons).

I forgot what the original post was about and had to go back and check! One thing I want to check is if Favoured Enemy works against monstrous player races now (I was under the impression the new subrace system fixed it). So will it work on PC orcs, or will you need tt have FE: Half-orc? Also, is there any way that EfU could have Favoured Enemy: Ooze implemented somehow? It's never been an option, but there are a lot of oozes on EfU, and good reason to take it if you want to live in the Bogs or Sewers.

Moving back on to the original topic, how do people decide at L5 once they've already got their defining FE? Whatever you've fought the most on the way to 5? Whatever you expect to fight most on Ymph? Whovever your biggest IC rival is? For example, FE: Elf and Vermin make sense for a Shevarashan Ranger. FE: Animal and Undead or Aberration and Undead for someone who lives in the sewers. But, for a lot there's not a clear second FE.

It's as if a wide range of Rangers stands accused here for picking up a FE: Human for whatever semi-reason they can come up with. Since I left off with a FE:Human ranger, I feel obligated to share my pov. As will be the general consensus, all of these players apparently expect to be (actively) involved in PvP with humans (since it's such a dominant PC race). But Favored Enemy can as easily be explained as the race you have the most (anatomical) knowledge about, looking at the bonusses it provides. Most of us jolly human rangers know where to hit a (hu)man to cripple him for life, but a Dwarf's stones may yet be made of iron. Who knows?

It's impossible for 99% of the population to deny that their choice does not derive almost purely from a point of PvP practicality, simple and alone because of the mechanical PvP bonus advantage. If we want to see diversity in the creativity of our community's favored choice, we may yet do well to change the bonusses in a way that they aren't (just) dominant to just specific races.

It's not worth making excuses over.

Sometimes the server seems bipolar to me.  

On the one hand, great RP is touted as the ultimate goal that we all strive for.  We have seen many PCs that were rewarded handsomely by DMs for the concept and how they were played.

On the other hand, some players know every stat of the game machine and exploit that with great success, and often dominate the server as a result.  Arcane casters are casting ultravision on their party and using darkness spells, fighters are chucking tanglefoot bags to get their opponent out of Expertise in PvP, and multi-class builds are created solely to utilize UMD or give them access to wands.  

I'm really not making a judgement here.  It's just a bit confusing at times.  

I guess the ultimate goal is to be really good in both aspects, yes?

Maybe the DM staff should make a list of the things that they don't like to see as they are considered cheesy just to make it clear and on the table?

As a human, I know how to kill a human very well... just saying!

You probably know how to kill animals, vermin, or insects pretty well. That doesn't mean you are a dedicated hunter of these things.

Quote from: putrid_plum;228519As a human, I know how to kill a human very well... just saying!

Good point. I propose all humans get free feat FE:Human based on thier character level rather than just ranger level.

I think you guys are looking everywhere for a good explanation when you don't really need to. To be a favored something means to be regarded or treated with preference or partiality. A ranger can have tons of reasons to do that: because he expects to fight that race, because he has trained to fight that race, because he hates that race, because it is the race he hunts more often, etc. It can be explained in a lot of ways.

Quote from: Udenbur;228453It's as if a wide range of Rangers stands accused here for picking up a FE: Human for whatever semi-reason they can come up with. Since I left off with a FE:Human ranger, I feel obligated to share my pov. As will be the general consensus, all of these players apparently expect to be (actively) involved in PvP with humans (since it's such a dominant PC race). But Favored Enemy can as easily be explained as the race you have the most (anatomical) knowledge about, looking at the bonusses it provides. Most of us jolly human rangers know where to hit a (hu)man to cripple him for life, but a Dwarf's stones may yet be made of iron. Who knows?

Anatomical knowledge about where to hit someone to cripple them is more sneak attack.

Favored Enemy involves less anatomical knowledge and more of how to hunt them, seeing that you get detection bonus and tracking bonus against them.

That is my point of view.