As the title says, really.
As we know, any DEX build can just stop putting points in Tumble at 10 ranks because he can easily avoid any AoO with 14 modified Tumble. I propose that a modified tumble score of 20, regardless of the lack of 15 proper ranks (impossible to achieve on EFU's level range) gives an extra +1 Dodge AC, for a total of +3.
This gives the various DEX builds (which are IMO alot cooler in general than fullplate ones) a bit of a buff, and something to look forward to into the higher levels when 20 modified Tumble might possibly become achieveable.
Or possibly 25 Tumble instead, if 20 is deemed too easy!
Dex builds can already get better AC than Fullplate ones, especially fighter/rogue halflings. What would be good is an armor bonus that only applies when you aren't using a shield, for swashbuckler sort of concepts. Say, +1 Shield bonus, rather than Dodge? That would be cool, and not stack with finesse AC whores in a +1 Largeshield.
i dont understand what this means but i agree since im playing a rogue
-A peformer who is an artful dodger after his training and fights as an acrobat
-A duelist that doesn't use armor
sounds good
SUPPORTED
+1
For the reasons stated (people stop putting points in tumble after 10 base ranks since it's pointless), I'd agree. However, the Jump spell may need to be looked into if this is changed so that it does not give almost anyone using it the bonus.
I might be fully wrong now and punish me deeply if I am- However I heard that if you put 10 points into EFUSS acrobatics, it gives you 2 additional tumble points, and I am not fully sure but I believe it might modify the tumble score in such way that on lvl 9, a maxed out tumble + 10 point in acrobatics means 15 core tumble score points, causing extra (third) tumble AC given 2 levels earlier than it should.
This might be complete bullshit but please tell me if I am wrong, I would like to know it myself too!
Tumble by nature only works for AC based upon the skillpoints you spend in it. Capped at LVL +3. So it is impossible to get 15 tumble, unless you get to lvl 12.
Quote from: BiteOfTheKing;227400I might be fully wrong now and punish me deeply if I am- However I heard that if you put 10 points into EFUSS acrobatics, it gives you 2 additional tumble points, and I am not fully sure but I believe it might modify the tumble score in such way that on lvl 9, a maxed out tumble + 10 point in acrobatics means 15 core tumble score points, causing extra (third) tumble AC given 2 levels earlier than it should.
This might be complete bullshit but please tell me if I am wrong, I would like to know it myself too!
It is indeed bullshit. :D
I see what your saying but ehh... I don't see it happening. Seems very..mechanical.
What?
I like the idea, but it would either require a) a recalibration of the very easy-to-find +tumble gear that has quite large mods in some cases, or b) if the required amount is increased to 25, a reliance on said tumble gear.
I'd be in favor of option b because it makes a notable bonus like this take dedication to attain, and because toning down tons of loot is an unnecessarily large workload for a mechanical shift like this!
Yeah, 25 seems a better number for this.
Or just put more +1 ac boots out there with only useable by pure build Monk/Rogue/Bard/Assassin
I think it's a good way to make it so that you don't just get tumble to 10 for ac for 14 to avoid the AOOs.
I'm with the 25 tumble, as it requires both skill dedication and item use.
I would dislike this. The idea of a person in leather armour being better protected than a person in a fullplate is silly.
It's not silly, it's there. Fullplate = 8 + 1 AC, +1 if you have INSANE tumble and then you're probably not using a shield either, to keep the penalties for Tumble down. So +10, but most likely +9. Leathers can be 2+2 Mage Armor + 6 DEX +2 Tumble. So, +12 max, and that's not hard with 18 DEX. I think that the next Rumpclaw-esque build having even MORE AC would be just a boon to powergamers. D20 is odd in that it counts "shot misses" and "shot absorbed by armor" as the same, unlike say in Fallout.
On the other hand, bonuses that are NOT Dodge don't stack up to mad AC. However, they could add flavour to subptimal builds by allowing a fencer PC to rely less on buffs/equipment. A Shield AC bonus from Tumble for rogues and bards (but NOT Monks) would mean you could get away a little better without a shield, but it still wouldn't be as good as having a lump of wood to hide behind.
More monk ac plz
I like it from the standpoint that I like to play dex based characters, but I don't think it needs any fixing from what it is now because:
Dex based builds buff both AC and AB from one stat boost - nice. Said high AB (low damage) is very effective through feats (KD, Disarm, etc).
Tumble actually is already usable above 10 ranks - just not mechanically usable in combat. Tumble specialists can do things and go places non tumblers can not. Having had a tumbler, and done those things, it's very cool.
IMO it also just allows already strong builds to get more boost to AC, that with uncanny dodge stacks with everything else.
Leave it like it is.
Mechanically, I do believe DEX builds could use a boost. The AC argument that DEX builds can get equal or slightly-greater-than AC is completely and utter nonsense, since every point you spend on Dexterity is one less to spend on Constitution (or any other Stat).
However The Beggar makes a valid argument as well that dedicated Tumblers get enviroment bonusses with skill checks.p
That said, I think there's one important thing to bear in mind:
Would 25 Tumble adding +1 AC break the game? No.
Would it encourage more Dexterity builds allowing for more flavor? Possibly yes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I heard this...
When caught flat-footed, you lose your dexterity bonus to AC. Therefor, a fighter using full plate (no shield, no AC boosting items), would have an AC of 18 against someone catching them flat-footed or being flanked.
And, a dexterity build, using hide armor, would only have 13 AC (15 if they have 10 points in tumble).
So, if this is true, plate does serve another purpose.
I don't think it's worth taking the time to implement this even if it was of dubious value.