At different times on this server, it can be difficult to do those early quests and to establish your character due to certain factors. If you are evil, you may have trouble during a time when Paladins are prominent. The same is true of Paladins having trouble finding a questing group in times where evil is prevalent. So, I would like to suggest that we adopt a change to the aura system that was instituted in Pathfinder (see here: http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/spells/detectEvil.html#detect-evil)
Essentially, creatures that are not Undead, Outsiders, or Clerics of evil alignment do not have an evil aura until level 6. At level 5 or below, they are basically too weak to produce an evil aura. This is not true for every creature; some exceptions can be made, say, for classes that require evil as an alignment, or else characters that have gained many evil alignment points.
This would allow low-level characters to quest with each other easier, establish relationships between alignments that would not otherwise exist, and prevent the use of Detect Evil as a block to conflict rather than as a means of initiating it. It does not absolve Paladins of their responsibility to battle Evil! It simply means that they don't have a button that, when pressed, gives them all the answers. It actually requires more of the Paladins, and offers Evil characters an oppourtunity to be seen as evil through their actions, not their mechanical status.
That is how it appears to me, at least; I know of paladin players who retire their characters because it is nearly impossible to progress due to an influx of low-level evil characters.
It also makes sense within the setting. It's unrealistic to assume that Joe Thug at level 2 radiates a sinister force just the same as Joe Tyrant at level 8; the higher level might have a stronger aura, but Joe Thug can't have really had that much of an effect on the world to earn an entirely blackened soul. And if he has, then it should be reflected by the DMs adding evil points to his alignment, and thus allowing that aura to show up earlier.
Anyways, please add in your two cents. I know where I stand, but I'd like to hear what the rest of you think.
Conversely, we could just steroid high level evil.
Instead of stunning the Paladin could be hit with Confusion, a pain-invoking headache, or other things that would ping huge on the ol' evil radar.
Cautiously endorsed, but all divine casters of evil alignment (rangers, druids clerics) should register as evil at any level.
That being said, there is a simple method of blocking Detect Evil that is accessible to most everyone even at low levels.
Sure it makes a paladin have to look deeper but what if said player isn't roleplaying just how evil they are just to quest? Huge flaws there and wouldn't be the paladin fault, yet he would fall from grace? I say keep it the same as is.
Quote from: Random_White_Guy;192940Conversely, we could just steroid high level evil.
Instead of stunning the Paladin could be hit with Confusion, a pain-invoking headache, or other things that would ping huge on the ol' evil radar.
That wouldn't solve the issue at hand. The issue was that lower level characters could be impeded by the detect evil.
Quote from: putrid_plum;192942Sure it makes a paladin have to look deeper but what if said player isn't roleplaying just how evil they are just to quest? Huge flaws there and wouldn't be the paladin fault, yet he would fall from grace? I say keep it the same as is.
Having played fallen palidens on other servers I can tell you that a paliden would not fall from grace by allowing a *Barely* evil nobody help him find lost children, or kill an encampment of gnolls.
Evil is shown threw actions and if a paliden notices this then he will stop allowing such to aid him or try to bring him back from the dark side sort of speak.
A paliden is a beam of light in a dark world, and with all light it casts shadows, The palidens job is to extinguish the darkness with his light and to rally others to his noble cause threw his deeds and actions.
This doesnt mean a paliden can take down a tyrant by hireing a troop of black souled thugs and still get off scot free.
As long as the evil isnt so powerfull that its to a noticeable level
I think that a paliden whould be able to quest with evil chars that dont seem so evil threw levels 2-5. So when the paliden and his evil buddy hit 6 he can be [!] No! My best friend is evil... NOOOOOooo *Cues rain and sinister music*
But yes.. thier is my little rant!
This was -always- a problem when establishing DM quests or on smaller scale any other quests. People generally choose questing over helping joe shmoe with his evilness.
I am of the opinion that getting rid of it for low level evil would be a good idea! Yes some evil might not show it until they hit 6 but tbh for such a small amount of time I doubt it would matter in the long run of RP. Agreed.
Evil is evil. They already have it easy here.
No need for this change tbh.
I support things which make a paladin's job more interesting and forces them to use their own judgement. Edit: Though I'm just speaking for myself.
Eq's got a good point that EfUA is arguably even easier for Evil and harder on paladins than the old setting, however this change would impact both equally.
Warning. Slightly off topic
I think that this isn't really the solution however. The solution is to make Good and evil-disliking Neutral more desirable to play. Look at the amount of loot and options (Loot, undead, demons, slavery, DM factions, the fact that the Archipelago has an Evil ruler, the Assassin and Ruby PrCs) available to Evil and otherwise callous PCs. Now look at the options for Good PCs, it's an uphill struggle to be proactively Good compared to proactively Evil. There's nowhere major that's really supportive of them, and few legal ways to fight the evil here. Not good for Lawful Good Paladins when they have to choose between an Evil dictatorship and a Chaotic slum.
It would make sense to have a Goodly equivalent to the sheer power of animation and the metric assload of undeath and demon gear. it would help the rare Good faction not horribly outgunned, and have a proactive goal for acquiring power. There are rather fewer risks attached to say being a Evil Necromancer than being a Good Wizard or a Paladin to be honest, compared to the power/research plot hooks that's available to each.
To me, team good is team nature (other than malarites and moanderites) And i would love to see a wildsman paladin, maybe one of nobanion?
That being said, i agree with the above post
That being said, all this was off topic.
I like this idea. But I also watched "Unbreakable" last night.[hide="Spoiler"]If the main character had realized that Elijah was evil right away, would there have even been a story?[/hide]
SPOILER!
Cripes, sorry. <_<
The problem to me with this is that it gives Paladins out there, especially low level ones just levelling up, an excuse to quest with evil PCs and not use their common sense.
The man says he worships Bane, calls out to the Black Hand in battle, but he doesn't show up on my supernatural sense? Well if he's good enough for my god, he's good enough for me!
I can see situations like that arising frequently.
Paladins don't have it that hard when it comes to questing. Sure on occasion you have to decline a quest because someone evil is running it, or someone evil is around, but usually this leads to Paladins creating trusted circles of friends and allies. Once that's formed, a Paladin has little trouble questing up.
Paladins should not be calling people out as evil anyhow in public, not unless they have some sort of proof to back it up. Either through some deficiency of morals, or some crime the person has actually committed. Just proclaiming to a quest group that the person is 'tainted' or some other nonsense should not be done without evidence to back it up. A well played Paladin in my eyes will simply find some polite excuse to duck out under those circumstances.
Quote from: BrittanyPanthas;193069The problem to me with this is that it gives Paladins out there, especially low level ones just levelling up, an excuse to quest with evil PCs and not use their common sense.
The man says he worships Bane, calls out to the Black Hand in battle, but he doesn't show up on my supernatural sense? Well if he's good enough for my god, he's good enough for me!
I can see situations like that arising frequently.
I do not see this as an issue, however. Evil pinging on the radar doesn't stop a paladin from questing with him, nor does it grant him an automatic shift toward chaos or evil. The DM does. If the DM witnessed the guy saying he's a Banite with the paladin, it's just the same as the paladin questing with evil, because ultimately, it's the DM that shifts alignment.
I'm not a big fan of DE. If it were up to me, I would remove it. Paladins still have to battle evil, but its more up to them to investigate and pursue it through actual conflict building and interaction rather than an arbitrary system.