Level 1 and 2 summons of the spirit theme cast scare.... too much. Seriously, this is a spell that is 95% useless, considering almost no enemy is level 4 or lower, it would be fine if they casted it 1 time only, but they cast it too many times, the summon ends up doing nothing but casting scare, it doesn't do any damage, it doesn't tank and it doesn't scare anyone because scare doesn't work on 90% of the enemies.
Could the scare spell be removed from this summons?
EDIT: Or, make scare work on enemies of a level highet than 5.
Hahahahaha. I kinda agree, spells such as RAY OF INFEEBLEMENT would be much more viable. :) Scare is really not a viable spell to use on quests.
I'd like to divert this into a suggestion for changing scare. Have it Fear all targets under L5 but simply Daze any over L5 (they are shaken by the fear, but still able to move). Thoughts?
Quote from: DollarPhil;192649I'd like to divert this into a suggestion for changing scare. Have it Fear all targets under L5 but simply Daze any over L5 (they are shaken by the fear, but still able to move). Thoughts?
Not against, but daze wouldn't do, i think the shaken effect is -2 to AB and saving throws, isn't it?
The problem with Scare is that as a L1 spell it is crap. Single target, mind affecting 1d4 round Fear, level-dependent, that amusingly adds an attack and damage penalty while removing the ability to attack. Compare that to:
- Ray of Enfeeblement. Weakens mobs, weakens PCs and probably slows them too from encumbrance.
- Sleep, which is also crap but can at least affect multiple targets and is handy from loot.
- Colour Spray, which is an level unrestricted area of effect disabling spell.
I'd suggest removing the level restriction on Sleep and Scare. Anything over L4 can't be Coup de Graced when asleep anyway, and removing the L5 max on scare would make Scare into a single target alternative to colour spray with a lower duration. Neither would be overpowering, especially as Fear's the weakest sort of disabling effect since it's easiest to get saves against and remove.
It's only useful on a wand drop to scare off low level animals. For a Necromancy spell you're better using RoE.
Honestly I have to say that removing the level cap on scare would be pretty cool. I don't see it becoming overpowered either.
I know I've wanted to cast scare in many roleplay situations, but it simply won't affect the target. And a fear spell at such a moment is just too much collateral damage.
Maybe it could even be made into a perk?
"You're a really scary guy. +2 intimidate, +2 saves vs fear and lvl cap removed from Scare."
The PnP shaken effect is -2 AB, saves, and skills. (As well as -2 to ability checks, but that can't be done in NWN without actually lowering ability scores, IIRC.)
I seem to recall suggestions about improving Scare before, though, being shot down.
It was a discussion regarding sleep. People wanted to remove the cap on it as well, I believe Mort shot it down because he was afraid of Coup De Grace's making all quests far to easy. (Past level 4, sleep doesn't cause coup de grace...)
I think it was actually shot down with the argument
"Scare sux"
"Don't use it then"
That is not really dealing with it, but rather evading the problem
Remove the level caps IMO
Sleep would become far too powerful as it is a group affecting disable, superior to color spray.
Scare does appear to be rather useless and should be replaced with a low level, low dc enfeeblement on these summons.
I am in support of changing scare or removing it from these summons
My two cents:
The level cap on Scare being removed wouldn't be a big deal. The DC would be low for the summons casters, can be blocked by PfA, and most characters over lvl5 would have more than a decent chance to beat it anyway. And it is a single target spell. It also should be a really cool and RP-used spell for low level (evil) casters, not a "scare sux, so don't use it". It is minor Fear, after all.
Regardless, I DO NOT think it should be removed from the aforementioned summons. It is characteristic of them, fits perfectly, and if you don't want them to cast it and they are, you simply don't know how to control your summons properly.
Diz-e is right. You can command your summons to attack rather than just let them do their own thing. The "Control Companion" tool is a must for anyone who uses summons, companions, familiars, AEs, or animates.
Quote from: Nihm;192827Sleep would become far too powerful as it is a group affecting disable, superior to color spray.
Huh what? It wouldn't. It's limited in the number of HD it can affed, and removing the cap would let it work on up to L8 only if you got lucky on the roll for the number of HD it affects. It also ends if you attack the target. it would be useful for getaways, less so for attacks.
Didn't realize sleep was capped that way, my bad.
Perhaps Doom or Bane could be considered for these summons as replacements, either of those would maintain the summon's flavor and have no target level restriction.
Le'bump.
This is still an issue. Could at least the number of scare charges each ghost has be lowered to something resonable, like 2? They seem to be able to cast it like 5 times. And while Diz-e is right about the tools, it's hard to controll 7 minions at the time using the tools..
As of v964 -
Scare will work on l5+ things (this is an experiment, it may get changed back or otherwise altered)
Summoned Mournful Spirit and Summoned Demented Spirit have had their spell set adjusted.
yesss