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...but think about why you FD another player before you do it.

The recent events motivated me to write this. I am not pointing fingers. I am not saying a single player was responsible. If you know the particular event I'm referring to, you'll know it was a mess pretty much from the start; it spiralled (in my opinion) out of control without anyone being able to do much of anything to prevent it.

Now pretty much all the people involved have to show for it is a bunch of burned-out faction characters and dead PCs who could be enjoying an amazing rivalry.

Sorry, just had to get that off my chest. I don't want to start a huge discussion, this was really not because of the usual team red/team blue mentality, nor was it because the people involved are irresponsible, discourteous players OOC. I enjoy playing with everyone involved, but I really just feel like we (all of us) let things get out of hand when we could have thought about what we were doing a little more.

So maybe next time we'll think about it. We, as players get to re-roll new characters and live to play the next day. Our characters just, well, die, so maybe there's a good place to start looking for a reason to dial down all the STOP KILLING EACH OTHER IN THE RUINS.

Two cents.

Rather I dare say, just like I say I do not like non-app goblins and kobolds and what not for this reason, stop playing without any unreal fear of consequences that you think you can avoid because of OOC factors, or think that will ensure if you kill or do not kill another.

No doubt rather many tend to play their character with no fear of death because they know they can just start another concept. Now, one that doesn't fear of losing is always a danger to one that attempts to play and survive, and I find it odd how quite many out there are scared, but in moment of boredom throw all aside to either win big only to lose next day with same problem, or to die with a bang by taking as many as they can along.

Make efforts to value playing before destroying.

While this post is most likely borne of frustration, it's still probably just a really good rule of thumb to think twice before you /c subdual full. If you find yourself typing that, take a deep breath and ask yourself "Is this fun?"

I just want people to make up my mind as to the FD during a pitch battle thing. To me it makes more sense to keep things balanced to actually do the FD (strategy over numbers could win). It makes it so there is no mistakes or glitches and quite honestly in war who is going to be doing subdual damage and not fearing for their life. My thing though is, way back when the Mithralsouls and Montezzi's went at it I was told in no uncertain terms that you do NOT go FD. Then just recently (in the melee in question I believe) Amber, who I always put on subdual when I logged in with her (as she hated violence) gets in her first PvP and gets FD'd. So quite honestly all I would like to know (being I was told a long time ago not to) can we or cant we FD in these situations without DM repercussion? Like I said it makes more OOC sense to me but I also fully get the more fun IG/IC aspect so I dont care either way but would like to hear an official ruling.

Not an official ruling... But if you're gunning for someone, and want them dead, no questions asked, just FD them and skip the SD part, but only do this when they're at near death and you're attacking them, walking into PvP with FD on is just going to wind up with critical AoO's killing the wrong people that really shouldn't die.

SD everyone if you have the chance, though sometimes in close, chaotic battles you just don't have that option if you want to win. Still try to make it fun, though, and from what I know there was warning (at least, for everyone but Wane I think) that the next time there was fighting heads would be flying.

Just my opinion.

Quote from: Nightshadow;186996SD everyone if you have the chance, though sometimes in close, chaotic battles you just don't have that option if you want to win.
Just my opinion.

You'll find conflict to be more rich and entertaining all around when it's not thought of as winning or losing.

QuoteNow pretty much all the people involved have to show for it is a bunch of burned-out faction characters and dead PCs who could be enjoying an amazing rivalry.

I'm not sure what you are trying to imply here. I wasn't involved with the incident you're speaking of but do know about what happened. All three factions still have solid numbers and there is a lot of conflict still going. They can build new rivalries and create more conflict just as before.

The recent conflict has been pretty amazing overall and the PvP has also been mostly solid along with it. Eventually someone will take casualties and things will slow down, but that doesn't mean it should end. New characters can hop right in for whatever side of the conflict they want and use what was already created to help in moving their own story along.

I'm just one of those people who do want to win the PvP fights... Unfortunately I suck at PvP so 75% of the time when I get in PvP I'm the guy being full looted at the end of it, begging for my hard-earned stuff back, only to be beaten down some more and have more stuff taken, which ends in me retiring my character because suddenly I'm a level 7 fighter who can't do any of the quests to get supplies back and I'm too weak to go on any of the higher level quests without being utterly useless and not getting any loot.

Not fun for me, so I won't put any extra effort into making it fun for other people who put me in that situation when the tables are turned, though I will be OOC courteous of people who are the same to me, and do my best to make it fun for them.

I disagree, lolmagics. The Stygians seemed to take quite a blow from the event; interesting characters on both sides of the conflict died before they had the chance to truly shine. I'm not saying it doesn't make sense. I'm not saying it was poorly done. I just think that if all those involved had taken the time to think about it a little, things would have turned out for the better.


EDIT: Just so it's clear, the 'event' in question includes all the fallout that was generated from it; when you kill a character, especially when you do so without thinking, you only make it easier for the people on the other side to turn on FD without a thought.

Pink stygian people. Think of the Pink Styigian. That is fun. FD is not. Ever since my PvP incident as i joined EFU, i send a tell to the player i am about to FD asking him if he is ok with that, and if he/she isn't, i don't.

I understand how diferent it is in mass PvP. However, you could all have stayed down, then take prisioners and do something creative with them. Esnalve them. Scar their faces and let them walk humiliated back home. Convert them to whatever evil diety you worship. etc.

Don't be wimps when you lose and don't be jerks when you win.

FWIW, The Stygians' numbers are not good right now: LiS and I are both taking some time off from our Armada PCs. So there's a single active Stygian (I'll help when I can).

I'm not blaming anyone. It was our side that pulled the trigger on the FD first anyway.

The moral of the story is: go app for a Stygian, people! It's a super fun faction and for the moment you should be able to get recommendations really easily.

The Docks is overcrowded anyway. ;)

Whilst I agree with the sentiment of don't just rampantly FD I do not think we need to feel overly guilty about killing someone.  Most pvp deaths are interesting and well deserved.

I think the simple rule should be: Let conflict build, once conflict is built - it's OK.
 
I don't mean calling someone a twat, or a jimmydean, I mean weeks of conflict - I'm talking someone that was a thorn in your side. You want to make the game interesting for everyone.
 
I can't speak for everyone, but when I speak for myself, I think the most enjoying part of the game is rivalry, and going into battle knowing you'll lose something - maybe everything - but it was well played out, and deserved.

If it makes sense for your character and it won't be a cheapshot, go ahead and FD in my oppinion. Elaborated: If it's a major battle like a war, FD is legit to make sure that the other team suffers costs beyond just supplies. a Res costs more then healing pots/herbs.

However, if it's a random mugging, that's FAR less justified. If it's a dwarf against a gob, well, try to have some decency, especially if you have the chance. (for example, a pre-mortem one-liner while you switch to FD is always a good option, let them say their last word, and give them as good an end as you can.)

All in all, I think the best policy in regards to FD: If you go to war with your sword set to Full Damage, expect to die at the hands of one set on Full Damage. And easily sooner then you think.

This really isn't a discussion about what we've come to call OOC Courtesy in FD'ing. This is meant to discuss, in a general sense, the act of killing another PC as the means to achieve an objective.

In a recent FD PVP event, the character who killed mine accomplished very little other than having half the server chase and eventually kill him for it. My PC, on the other hand, participated in the killing of another PC who had been subdued after winning a duel to the death and indicating he would, in fact, not kill his opponent. Miscommunication led our side to FD him; I don't mean to discuss why it was done, simply that if we had taken more time, IC, to sort that out, maybe it would not have happened at all. The events that followed were all justifiable from the point of this particular death. I cannot blame the PC responsible for the actual deed either, because he had a history with the dead character, but also because he was given orders from superiors, and he thought, ICly, that the best way to follow these orders was to FD the PC.

Notice I don't mean to argue each particular death in terms of its 'IC merit' or the 'courtesy' employed. I'm merely contending that, of the six or so PCs directly involved, five are dead; one for reasons unrelated. The one who is alive actually did die during the event. What did this accomplish to any of the people involved - the actual characters, not the players? When you put yourself in your character's shoes, and I mean, truly put yourself in your character's shoes, you don't proceed with an act like this unless you are absolutely certain you wish to die for it. While our characters lead very different lives, certainly far more dangerous than our own, their instinct of self-preservation is a defining drive to nearly all characters, and certainly all characters present.

 The following is food for thought. It is not meant as an accusation of anyone in particular:


 

• When you are 'bored' with your PC, and you willingly walk into an extremely dangerous situation which causes others to kill you, consider that you, being done with the PC have little care in the matter after it's said and done. Other people, however, will have to deal with the severe IC consequences of having killed you.
   
• When your side suffers an FD casualty during PVP conflict, no matter how things turn out (whether you win or lose this particular engagement) remember that the argument of well, the other side used lethal force is a double-edged sword, and that it is rare you will kill a PC and all his supporters in a single encounter. By this logic, opposing sides should never stop murdering each other.
   
• What stops this murderous drive in all of us is what we call OOC courtesy, but needs to be (in my opinion) a sense of roleplaying your character - his fears, ambitions, desires and ultimately what you plan to do with him.

It seems a bit hard to propose that we take these things into consideration during a messy, large PVP event like this. The moment we start thinking like our characters, just for a few seconds (it is only a game after all), with little or no chance of return after we die, OOC courtesy and IC self-preservation instinct become two sides of the same coin. The unfolding of this in the gameworld is (again, my opinion) what we have come to call meaningful conflict.

lol

Yes, basically that's it.

Might be I'm wrong, but afaik you(r side) was the cause of things getting out of hand. The other side has been a lot more lenient on the subdual modes over the history of their characters and faction. I wasn't there, but I found that in EFU:A people show the highest level of courtesy and consideration when it comes to PvP. This single incident inspired by your group killing the man that showed mercy to one of your own just doesn't seem to merit the insinuation that we've grown inconsiderate and OOC motivated.

When asked in a tell why my PC was FD'd the player said, "striking a member of the armada is a death penalty". I think were my PC subdued their may have even been one or two stygians that would have spared her life knowing things about her the player that FD'd her didnt know, (behind the scenes ploting).
 
You need to consider that the PC you're FDing may be your bosses inside man (spy). Just because your PC doesnt know another doesnt mean that PC isnt known by members of "your side".
 
note: Amber was almost always put on subdual as soon as I logged in with her, she didnt kill if she could help it, I seldome even quested with her so not to have to kill.

Udenbur, I don't think what I'm talking about is the Red/Blue mentality here. I didn't feel slighted, I enjoyed myself during the event in question. I just feel like none of the characters involved got what they wanted in the end, because everyone involved (even my group if you want to put it that way) went on FD without putting themselves in their characters' shoes. Notice I am not talking about OOC courtesy either. This is not the case here.

Notice I am not talking about how we all are OOC filthy meta gamers. I think everything that happened is absolutely justifiable from an IC standpoint, but did not help push or further the goals of anyone involved. This leads me to believe everyone, across the board, could do with feeling their character's feelings, thinking their thoughts, for a single second. This may lead to better outcomes in the future.

Or not, there really isn't a problem per se, in the true sense of the word. Everyone involved took their deaths well, everyone rolled up new characters and got ready to rumble again. In my opinion, though, considering that 'everything is as good as it could be' might lead us to a situation where we are really not afraid to lose our PCs because we can just re-roll. Many of us have been playing this game for years; it finally begins to dawn that it, being only a game, doesn't really warrant any sort of agony, and that 'losing' and 'winning' are concepts dearest to people who forget this is a game (strangely enough).

TLDR: I'm not insinuating anything, man. If I want to call anyone a filthy meta gamer, or an inconsiderate prick, I will. This is not the case. But I think there's room for improvement. Capisce?

There are some situations in which a FD killing is the -only- IC action, and a character has been left no choice in the matter.

So long as FD isn't used lightly, I don't think there's a problem in it being used, especially when a character using it has no choice.

Attacking armed men holding a prisoner may well end up with death in the ensuing chaotic melee.  That's part of the excitement!

I'd have thought people would have calmed down over that whole PvP event and drawn their lessons from it by now.

A strange characteristic of this community is to jump upon any invitation to a civilized discussion as if it were a 'rant', or a angered accusations. I don't think anyone did anything wrong. I'm not going to repeat myself, it seems people always fall back into the defensive mindset that - correctly - states that no rules were broken and no one got bitter because of what happen. I'm just trying to raise a discussion, with one main question - was that handled the best it could have been? Enough people seem content with the outcome, so I'm going to let it rest.

I think you bring up some good points and that there is always room for improvement.

Im a tad new here but I have something to say,
 
With pvp and such if its two opposing sides, People will die alot often. Its not you are safe due to ooc curtosy. The curtosy is that you dont have a meaningless death. You are dieing due to ic build up angers and a "War" one could say between two factions. Now if someone is FD and there are others who were thier allies there, then they have every reason to run off gather more help and serve the just punishment right back to said person.
 
I have had only one char FD and it was an elf who stole,mugged,robbed, and, killed about a year ago and I was perfectly fine to that.
 
PVP is in essance NOT You V them, This is Your player V Thier Players. Note players and yourselfs are not the same unless your a Seventh level human fighter in rl but thats fine ehh I dont judge...
 
So just throwing this out thier so my thoughts how ever not backed threw dozens of connections and weaves of friends, this is what I think on the matter.

That seems fair. Each situation is different, and factions do have something to do with that. Just like a monster race is a reasonable cause for FD yet does not always warrant it, so too in certain cases is a faction war more likely to end in FD, but not necessarily. As an outsider from the recent conflict that Kiaring refers to, I can say that it seemed to be very heavy on the FD. However, I can also say that from what I saw there was a lot of build up to that, oppourtunities for either side to take a different approach, and in fact a determined effort from at least one (perhaps both) side to move towards FDing their enemies. In my opinion, that was the right call.

What would be the ideal, then, in a situation like the one that occurred? Whichever option told the best story? Not necessarily. There is a balance between what is fun, what is realistic, and what is good roleplaying or the best story. So then, the ideal would recognize this balance and try to keep to it. I think it's all a game first and foremost, so that should likely come first. If somebody's not having fun, stop and think: is there a way I can meet the other two requirements and still keep the fun? If it's completely unrealistic to let somebody survive (i.e. They have threatened your life, continue to do so after being subdued, and have the means to follow through), you might think it's less fun to finish them off, but it could be the only response. And of course, if you consider how your character would act you can never go wrong. It's not like taking a different perspective, it is taking a different perspective, because ideally your character isn't you with a sword.

Again, as an outsider, the entire situation seemed to progress naturally and end naturally as well. There were unexpected bits, but about the right amount of people died for the amount of danger involved in the whole thing. That is to say, not too few and not too many, but admittedly quite a few. I'm also personally in favour of server-changing events like that, which saw influential people on both sides disappearing from the scene to make room for new characters. There's something very cleansing about that.

Hated it when people would just set to FD, personally, because I do think a lot more enjoyment for both sides (Or at least one!) could be had if they RP'd the situation afterwards.

There are some exceptions, though, I digress.

FD is really an IC decisiion. In some cases it might not be neccessary but i find with most PC conflict at least it will end in a FD somewhere along the line. I think if it feels like the right thing to do IC do it. I have been known to FD a character on first meeting and though that is a great shame for the conflict to grow and create more IG plots sometimes it is very neccessary and you are given little choice in the matter. The only time i would re-consider my feelings about this would be if the circumstances were different because of un-controllable varialbles like bugs etc.

People also should remember, that when they are SD'd, and they keep on with the big mouth, crass talk, spitting out threats with a sword on their throat, it's basically asking for FD.

Quote from: SelfishMan;187377People also should remember, that when they are SD'd, and they keep on with the big mouth, crass talk, spitting out threats with a sword on their throat, it's basically asking for FD.

This.

I am not questioning whether FD was right from an OOC standpoint. Not questioning whether it was justifiable IC.

I am questioning whether it was a smart decision for the people involved. In Character.

I hope what I'm trying to propose as a discussion becomes clearer. If we always fall back on the "oh, no rules were broken" and "oh, no OOCness took place", we will always be right. And always be re-rolling our characters every month.

I tend to agree that "FD" should be the last step in a great build-up of conflict.  It should be used if and when the 'story' demands it to be.

I personally think that in this case that is pretty much where we were at.  The Son's and Stygains had (and still are) battling back and forth.
The Stygains would hit the Son's and the Son's would hit back, or vice versa.  After being part of this for a few weeks, I could really see no other way for this to go.

Am I saddened that we lost some excellent and epic characters? Yes
Am I saddened to think that the conflict is going to die down some? Yes
But, do I see any other way this could have gone?  No

Personally, I think each case must be judged on their own.

Be Babe Ruthless!

(http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/SHOWBIZ/Movies/10/02/ew.review.whip.it/art.whip.it.courtesy.jpg)

I think Kiaring makes some good points here.  Others do to.

I'd like to caution that "It's totally IC" can easily become a cop-out.  Nearly everything your character does stems from what you WANT them to do.  It's what YOU think you would do if you were in THEIR situation.  Sometimes, it pays to ask yourself, "This is something this character would do... but is it the ONLY thing this character would do?" and explore options.  Especially in the interest of more epic storytelling.

Jayde Moon is incredibly ruthless to the buffs of his own allies

I agree with Jade...
 
It seems there is no real issue with one on one duels as most players tend to set ground rules prior to begining the PvP (unless it's some type of assassination). So the problem is in the pitch battles and all out wars. So I guess it boils down to...
 
A) If you don't want your PC to end up in the fugue by some random FD leave the area (because all it takes is one player, even if the other 20 are on subdual). If you stick around for the battle dont get upset if you end up fugue'd and looted.
B) If the PvP action is more than 1 on 1 feel free to randomly FD any PC on either "side" all you like without guilt saying "My PC is a cold hearted bastard that likes to kill" or "My PC judged your PC worthy of death"...
 
Without an official rulling by the powers that be, that's pretty much the summation of all that has been written in this thread.

I understand where you're coming from, and I think the point about not overdoing full-damage killings is valid.  You don't want the server to turn into an arena server with no real intrigue.

That said, there's also another side to the coin.  Stygian soldiers and Docks rebels fighting gruesome, bloody battles in a lawless no-man's-land territory, with magical explosions, stabbings, summons, and a psychotic woman throwing lightning bolts?

It would feel silly if no one died, honestly, from such a chaotic and deadly scene.  I rather like the idea of those proclaiming neutrality running for cover from the bloodshed, rather than sitting around watching it like a high school fist-fight!

There might be less FD killings if bystanders showed a reasonable amount of fear and ran for cover!

Quote from: 12 Hatch;187574I rather like the idea of those proclaiming neutrality running for cover from the bloodshed, rather than sitting around watching it like a high school fist-fight!

I believe this is an argument for TN Necromancers with liberally distributed Fear spells, myself.

Perhaps a rulling could be made something on the lines of...
 
1) Keep it all subdual
2) Those PC's subdued are considered near death (as in need of an ER or magic healing), (stay down!)
3) The winning sides "leaders" can deside if there are any worth attempting to heal and take prisoner, finnish off with a killing (FD) blow or leave laying there and let the fates deside if they live or die.
 
 
That's how I'm going to be playing battle PvP.

While I think I agree with your general sentiment about not overdoing it, sword fights are dangerous.  When people start stabbing each other, someone might well die.  Where's the fun in knowing you'll survive?  It's the characters who take big risks that everyone remembers, and there isn't a risk unless something terrible can happen to you!

Amber bravely attacked a Stygian soldier in a tense life-or-death situation, and was slain for it.  That seems reasonable!

I'm not talking about Amber in particular, I'm talking in general. I'm fine with Ambers death or dying then and there. I would feel even better about it if after all was said and done the winning side said "No prisoners, make sure they're all dead." or "Heal Aulgrim, bind him and bring him to X we're going to torture him, kill the rest." This would not only have let me (the player) see the rest of the action as aposed to standing in the fugue with my thumb up my butt. It would have let other players/PC's make a bid for the lives of the fallen PC's involved rather than the judgement of a single player/PC when dozens are involved.
 
Hell it could even then be left to those that are going around doing the killing blows, some PC's might think to themselves "Gee, this PC healed me more than once [fakes the killing blow behind the leaders back]" You never know how things could RP out in this manner (possibilities are endless).
In going FD in these situations there is only one outcome for the fallen, no RP, fugue, log (=not fun).

Well, unless you have y'know, buddies who'll sneak your corpse out in the confusion and get you ressed. I've done that in at least one mass PVP, and seen it happen a couple of times. Also, there's plenty of reasons IC for a straight FD. Not most of the time, but if for example:
Your PC thinks he's going to to die if captured, and wants to take as many enemies with him as he can.
Huge battles like the bog war.
Personal grudges (E.g. sneaking around at a duel/PVP because you're gunning for one PC your char hates)
Solving upcoming arguments (I know X is going to argue for letting her go, so I'm going to kill that PC now, and tell X "And? she's dead now")

However, FDing chars you don't have any rivalry with because they pitched in against you strikes me as fairly lame unless they're clearly trying to kill your PC. "They got him/took it, and we couldn't stop them" is cooler than "They got the loot, and killed every PC currently opposing them for even temporary reasons"

Yes, Nihm, I am pretty 1337 at selfpwn.

Anyway, I don't think anyone's looking for a 'ruling' here or something like that.  Just a plea from the OP to 'consider' your options.

Unfortunately, that would turn each bout into a winner-takes-all fight.  Even if the Sons, for example, lose a pitched battle, it makes sense that attrition exists and they'll take down a Stygian supporter or two.  If you have to subdue everyone, that means the inferior force has no chance!

The easiest way to handle this, is to sit back a moment and think.. "Is this the best way for this story to end?  Is it time for this leg of the story to end?"  If you can not easily and without hesitation say "Yes." Then it is time to stick with Subduel damage.

Or maybe... send a 'tell' to the other side, and ask.. "Are you OK with FD here?"

I'll admit I have yet to have a character die to PvP, or not a 'rightful' ending.  I can understand how in some cases it would seem to soon, or unfullfilling.  But, I guess it's a risk you take when you decided to go that route.  

Let's face it, none of us like to lose a character we are enjoying.  If it be to PvP or any other factor of the game.  But, sometimes we just have to 'suck it up and deal'.

Quote from: Cerberus;1875782) Those PC's subdued are considered near death (as in need of an ER or magic healing), (stay down!)

FyI this is how it is supposed to be already.

Anyone subdued and not staying down unless either a DM or the winning side tells him to get up is cheating, and encourages FD on the server.

EVEN IF YOUR BUDDIES HEAL YOU, which they shouldn't unless there's spawns nearby that might actually fugue you, which is mostly an OOC thing.

EVEN if the fight has run off to another area.

If in doubt, send a tell to the guy that subdued you, to make sure.

As for subdual: i look at it this way:

Subdual means you're as dead. Left for dead. Not just knocked out (that's why there's a sparring mode). Buddies don't waste healing on dead people. They pick them up and bring them for a raise if the battlefield allows them to.

It's not hard to imagine you think you're enemie's dead, and just leave him to rot. Then that bad guy somehow survives his wounds and comes back into the story. (ex: Anakin)

FD means you're making sure he's dead: assassination, dealing the kiling stroke on purpose, slaughtering the wounded after a fight, etc.

As for the OP, it brings up a valide point that sometimes arises when using FD, imo: storytelling use vs. ICly ok.

You can't blame people for FDing properly, but it does sometimes put a stop to some stories we would've like to hear more of. It just happens, it's hard when you're pvping to keep it in mind.

Quote from: Jayde Moon;187545Sometimes, it pays to ask yourself, "This is something this character would do... but is it the ONLY thing this character would do?"

In my time on EFU, i've been involved in a moderate amount of pvp, most often friendly duels. I've been on the recieving end of muggings, and have had a character FD'd.

My decision on killing another PC however is purely OOC. Why? It's because its encouraged for players to build the conflict here, where as my characters would rather not have any survivors in such a harsh world, where they could come after you at any time.

While I may want my character to have a ruthless mentality of cross him even slightly and you end up dead, I know such an OOC harsh reputation could quickly be seen as grieving.

However to date the only PC i have ever killed asked me OOCly to end his character. What I have come to realise however is, EFU is harsh, and allthough you may let someone else walk away, they will come after you most often with intent to kill.

So perhaps it is better than people relate more to the character than OOC thoughts, and induldge further into realism than abiding by OOC wishes. I've got the impression on EFU that some people get into PVP knowing full well the OOC wishes of increased conflict, and that they have a high chance of surviving the encounter. And that the knowledge they have of this is what bases their decision on PvP more than the realistic fact most would simple be gutted after the duel and left to rot.

Live by the sword, die by the sword. Expect everything to come full circle.

Quote from: Letsplayforfun;187719Subdual means you're as dead. Left for dead. Not just knocked out (that's why there's a sparring mode). Buddies don't waste healing on dead people. They pick them up and bring them for a raise if the battlefield allows them to.
 
It's not hard to imagine you think you're enemie's dead, and just leave him to rot. Then that bad guy somehow survives his wounds and comes back into the story.

I like this mind-set...
Don't think of it as knocked out, think of it as laying there gutted and only serious, (very serious, not dumping a healing herb on the guy), magic or the luck of the gods is going to keep them alive. You either walk away leaving them for dead or chop off thier head. This would be a good place to send the fallen a tell and ask if they have a preferance even...
 
Knocked out is -1 to -10.... Subduel is you hit -10 and by all rights should be in the fugue (you're dead, stay down).