Hi guys.
It has been re-iterated more often lately, EFU is a server about having fun - And the Aim of this fun is to tell one immense, epic story.
So let's talk about running. You're probably thinking, what the hell does running have to do with an immense, epic story? And there's the thing. It doesn't. Leastways, not on its own.
Whatever could you possibly mean, Box? When could RUNNING ever be bad?
Simply put, running is bad when it is done as a speedy mode of travel, without any good reason to do so, simply because there is apparently no one else around. If something is chasing you, or you need to catch up with a group, running is perfectly fine. But if you are simply wandering aimlessly around the ziggurat or beelining from quest to quest, or worse - running to avoid stealthed PCs, running can in fact be a negative contributor, sometimes even falling into the 'need to win' category that is talked about so much recently.
Let's put this into a scenario.
Joe bloggs is a wizard who is a plotting and scheming fiend, who constantly has see invis up as he is walking about the Ziggurat as he moves from secret meeting to secret meeting, and Karl Heinz Schreiber feels like following him to see what plots or other storyline goodness Karl might be able to get out of following Joe. Then all of the sudden, Joe begins to run because he figures nobody is around, and he'll get to his destination faster. (Or in the few cases this happesn, because he doesn't want to give a stealther a chance to follow him)
Now Karl, if he wishes to remain undetected, is forced to end his pursuit or to attempt continue to follow in stealthmode, making a guess at where Joe might have gone. If Karl is unable to follow Joe, where he would've been able to do so had Joe continued to walk to his destination calmly, Karl now misses out on a golden chance to eavesdrop and pick up on a potentially sweet plot.
While the above is a rather poor example :
Running is an excellent way to ruin good storytelling opportunities, and look quite silly in the process. Sure, it's an excellent way to make your way to a secret meeting while being absolutely sure you're not followed - But Where's the fun in that? Sure, you can say it is IC all you like. "My character wouldn't want to let people follow them" and such. Which is fine and I'm sure no DM is going to bust your balls over it more than pointing out your PC looks stupid dashing around as if it were armageddon.
But the fact remains, if the chance never exists in the first place, you don't know what kind of cool offshoots might stem from your plots when they are overheard by someone who followed you. If you wanted, you could even use someone following you to your advantage. Start talking about your plot in ways that will intentionally mislead them. Get creative. Just don't run!
tl;dr
Ima saying, if you feel paranoid or scared that someone might with bad luck be around and you wanna skim through the rubble and ruins fast, in panic, go for it. Yeah, sure, mighty stories might come about and even if we speak of "don't try to win", it doesn't mean you have to give chances for foes to catch up with you on purpose. As silly as it may sound, but it's actually the hunters job to find a way to catch the rabbit.
As for me, I ain't there to lose on purpose either.
I confess! I run through the Nobles Gate because 95% of the time, there's nothing going on in there.
Quote from: Paha Poika;163961Yeah, sure, mighty stories might come about and even if we speak of "don't try to win", it doesn't mean don't give up on purpose either.
As for me, I ain't there to lose on purpose either.
You're missing the point. If you are even thinking of it as winning or losing, you're going to get butthurt when anything negative happens to your PC. Which is really the sort of mentality we should not be getting into.
Giving someone a chance to turn something small like eavesdropping into an awesome plot/Chain of events is in no way 'giving up on purpose'
Because really, this is a game. Someone needs to win, someone needs to lose.
Guess what? Your PC is eventually going to die.
You lose. GG. Uno mas?
Quote from: Caster13;163962I confess! I run through the Nobles Gate because 95% of the time, there's nothing going on in there.
That's a matter of opinion. And yes, I am there to aim at something with my PC's. Always. On my opinion it on other hand makes me play my character as I want it to be played. I want him to make it, and I am scared of followers, muggers, thieves and what not.
This all the more makes it so, that I will never on purpose make my way slowly somewhere, as to give chances for people to eavesdrop or possibly mug someone. If it happens during RP, it happens. If I on other hand don't wish it, I will do what I can do avoid it.
Stories are what it's all about, but I want actually someone who has effort on eavesdropping and spying, who does not need me to held their hand so they can do it. If the wolf can't catch the rabbit without one walking right into it's mouth, then by all means, the wolf can starve as far as I see it. If there is valuable effort at trying, that is when I may use my chances at something different.
Some good points. But you can argue both sides of this...
"Now Karl, if he wishes to remain undetected, is forced to end his pursuit or to attempt continue to follow in stealthmode, making a guess at where Joe might have gone. If Karl is unable to follow Joe, where he would've been able to do so had Joe continued to walk to his destination calmly, Karl now misses out on a golden chance to eavesdrop and pick up on a potentially sweet plot."
How many times have you seen a movie where the protagonist wonders if the car behind him is following him, so he takes a random turn and sure enough - the car turns too! Or a guy is walking down the street and sees a guy shadowing him in the reflection of a window or mirror? The hero dashes into a store and ducks out the back, while the evil spy gets on his walkie talkie and breaks into a run, blowing his cover but generating a chase scene? Doesn't that also generate an RP situation?
If your PC starts running and a PC pops out of "thin air" and starts giving chase, that's exciting, isn't it? Doesn't have to lead to PvP for it to be exciting.
Are you currently playing a stealther perhaps?
Why can't my invis PC run through the wilds when he thinks there may be someone stalking him? It may not be IC to "la de da" and smell the flowers if you think someone is stalking you, or it may be IC to slow down and walk INTENTIONALLY to invite the attack.
Another thing - I may only have 2-3 hours to play at a given time, and I'd rather not spend it walking alone through an uninhabited area.
Okay. Not to blame box or anyone but I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant.
EFU has become increasingly focused (or at least the general discussion forum )with telling PCs that EFU is a server of fun not to WIN. That PvP is important to being fun. That other things take place that need to be addressed.
We have DMs to deal with that issue. It is cool sometimes to see that PCs are taking an interest in caring for the way the community is handled but seriously, running? Really?
What happened to the cool general discussion threads on "SURVIVING EFUS EPIC HARD WILDS", "PVP TIPS FOR NOOBS", "PHK IS TOO OVER POWERED", "MONKS NEED MORE STUFF".
I don't mean this to come off as crass but I think its a disturbing trend. DMs will solve problems of "People abusing mechanics by running around everywhere" This trend is getting kinda ridiculous.
Sometimes, a PC runs for a simple fact:
Its faster. Fedex quests, getting through areas, etc. Its fucking annoying to lallygag and waste time. If you're stalking a PC and he runs, stop him. Or don't. Find him again later.
The motivations and actions of PCs is a DM concern not player one, especially when it comes to mechanics stuff like "Running".
I find Box's post to be shallow and pedantic.
I somewhat agree with the OP but I feel it should be based on IG/IC justification. If your PC has a reason to be running around then fine. If your PC has no reason to be running and it's strictly for OOC reasons because the player is just being impatient, then no.
I.e.: Olo was old and didn't run unless he had to. Though after he was mugged he either buffed up or ran through the area he was mugged in. I feel it was justifiable IC for this and RP'd out of breath and whatnot after the run.
I think what I'm saying is that if you do run then at least toss in an emote or something before or after. That way if you are being followed (for whatever reason), the stalker cant really complain you went OOC.
Once upon a time there was a PC played by Howland, who was of course evil, and he had a large gang. There was a troublesome PC that none of them could spot and that would stealth around and spy on them. So, being Howland, and pragmatic, he just told all the PCs in his gang to run everywhere. Problem solved. Good cardio wins.
On a personal level I do not find walking through empty areas to be that interesting. If I wanted to do that, I'd play a druid. I play to have fun and if you miss your chance to ambush me, etc, I'm sorry. Out of courtesy I do feel a little guilty running by people.
Quote from: Kotenku;163975I find Box's post to be shallow and pedantic.
Shallow and pedantic, indeed.
Not to highjack the thread or anything but...
Quote from: Kotenku;163975I find Box's post to be shallow and pedantic.
Quote from: TheImpossibleDream;163983Shallow and pedantic, indeed.
Isn't unconstructive posts that neither say why you are for or against the OP pedantic? And making a post that is intended to be an insult against somebody a bit shallow? Or am I just missing the sarcasm?
A bit ironic I would say. [shrugs]
Quote from: RIPnogarD;163984Not to highjack the thread or anything but...
Isn't unconstructive posts that neither say why you are for or against the OP pedantic? And making a post that is intended to be an insult against somebody a bit shallow? Or am I just missing the sarcasm?
A bit ironic I would say. [shrugs]
It is ironic in more ways than you know.
^lol. As for the topic on hand, I think it's ridiculous to tell people to walk everywhere in a video game. Not only is it time consuming, but conflicts/plots are much better when they naturally occur. Since when are you supposed to intentionally invite spies or ambush by walking along slowly?
Do what I always do. have your PCs throw sarcastic comments/offers of healing/incoherent abuse at PCs who run around populated areas. especially if you're a guard PC who CAN yell at someone "HEY! Stop, suspicious fellow!".
I've been ion the receiving end of that off a DM too with a possessed guard shouting "Hey what's the hurry?" when I was sprinting as I was the only PC on. I don't think you can really criticise hustling through unpopulated areas where either:
A: There's nobody there to care or RP with to make the walk interesting.
B: The area is known and in some cases *designed as* Gank Alley and only a fool would stick around there without reason unless they have See Invis, mad Spot and a floodlight.
i run if my character is so inclined to do so, or if i don't feel like walking
I run because I cannot hide.
And i run because i simply don't enjoy roleplaying alone. No one is watching, who the hell cares?
Run. Walk. Carry rocks with you and crawl at a snails pace. I really don't care, and neither should anyone else.
Watch Conan the Barbarian, Lord of the Rings, and The Running Man.
Ok, I can get Ahnold running from one city to another, or running from prison to a shanty town. But a dwarf? C'mon. Running is so OP and has no place in our fiction or fantasy.
People who walk have no lives.
That can apply in two ways: if I were to be controversial, I'd tell you to get a life if you care about how other people move in a video game. But more importantly, the game is time-consuming enough as is. I have no interest in doubling the time it takes me to do uninteresting things (such as moving from one familiar area to the other) when I could be doing a hundred more fascinating things with that time. Ideological nonsense aside, I play for my own enjoyment. Yours is just a beneficial side-product.
Yes, I fully acknowledge the problem of stealth. But its signifigance is extremely tiny in the big picture. Sure, be a good sport and walk around if you're doing secret stuff - or run, if you want to lose your pursuers. But that only has any meaning in such a small margin of cases that it can mostly be ignored.
There's also the fact that our PCs are adventurers with super-human powers. I walk 50% faster than most people on the street, and I'm a pathetic bookworm. If I had 16 Strength and 12-14 Constitution, and travelling around was pretty much my career, I certainly wouldn't walk at the snail pace commoner NPCs do.
Actually, I just thought of a good reason not to go running around the ziggurat.
Because you're holding scissors.
I agree with RWG "Are we really discussing running?"
And FleetingHeart, thank you, my next character will definately "Carry rocks ... and crawl at a snails pace".
Quote from: ScottyB;164019Watch Conan the Barbarian, Lord of the Rings, and The Running Man.
Ok, I can get Ahnold running from one city to another, or running from prison to a shanty town. But a dwarf? C'mon. Running is so OP and has no place in our fiction or fantasy.
Say tha' t'me face lad! Us dwarves are known fer our stamina!
totally implement a tripping system. .05% of tripping while running unless you emote tying ur shoes
Implement option for Hide and Pick Pocket users to tie together other people's shoelaces.
This thread is a blatant attempt to claim from me the Most Hated Player crown, and I resent it.
Quote from: Caster13;164026Actually, I just thought of a good reason not to go running around the ziggurat.
Because you're holding scissors.
Gnomish DEATH SCISSORS!
implement something where if you run you aren't as careful and can't detect as much oh wait that already exists unless you're an elf in which case you're inclined to frolic everywhere anyways wow ok
Quote from: Gnome on the Strange;164058Gnomish DEATH SCISSORS!
No! Bad gnome! Listen to what your kindergarten teacher taught you!
My barbarian doesn't run because she's always encumbered... and she's lazy. I love just strolling up to things in battle or hanging back and throwing axes or goblin dung or whatever random thing she's carrying.
Seriously though... this topic made me lol.
bad thread
I agree with derf and vp
die running scum
baddie coward
Quote from: Caster13;163962I confess! I run through the Nobles Gate because 95% of the time, there's nothing going on in there.
Honestly, I've been extremely guilty of this recently. Shit, even if people ARE around. More of a time issue + boredom for me, but nonetheless, the reason stands. Really though, walking has some serious bonuses and I'm the only dolt who does this frequently.
Well, running does have one major weak point is that it prevents anyone from interacting with you, especially frustrating when you are trying to get PCs to help your wounded NPC crawling on the floor and people zoooom around <_<
This is especially true if you want to have setup time to setup a little encounter.
Taking your time => More predictable => More setup by DM => Better Event!
That said, by taking time, I dont mean DO nothing. You should always do something. Whatever that something is, even if that something is walking back and forth across the city appearing to be busy.Not much chance to run an event for you if you just stand there. :(
If i'm on a DM event, or am about to step into one, chances are i'm not alone, therefore i won't be running unless we have a valid IC reason.
I really don't get this at all. There is no reason why running places would not be IC. Maybe it's just me but if I have someplace to be, and I ever want to get there faster, I'll run. Both IG and IRL (no car), I run places all the time. Just cause you're lazy in real life shouldn't make you lazy IG.
Three pages...wow.
If you run, you run, if you walk, you walk.
If you Thomas, you Thomas
I'm testing my new superpowers on this thread which has served it's purpose.
I run at least three miles per week to stay in shape. Maybe some players just want to stay healthy?