EFUPW Forums

Now that I have your attention....

I'd be interested in hearing the views of the players of the server for my own use as well other members of The DM Crew that want to make use of it. You've probably heard it a million times that "The Players make the server, not the DM's" so this is your time to shine and tell me exactly what you feel.

I would like to know what you think the server is currently great at providing, what you think as a player the server is currently lacking, and what you believe the DM's as a whole should currently be concentrating on as well as any other things you feel should/could be addressed.

All I ask is that you keep trolling/flaming/insulting/etc out of this thread and focus on the issue at hand.

As an addition, if you feel you don't want your opinions public, your more than welcome to PM me them with the thread title.  

Thank you in advance!

Id like to see more people exploring the place.

I know its entirely up to the player to explore and find the secrets of Ymph but i guess if there was more of a reason to look deeper into some places it would encourage more exploration,

I guess if there were vendors found out in the extremes that sold items that were more powerful than what you could get in and around Zig and that are highly desirable it would drive more exploring.

Id also like to see more quests available for the nature characters to do at lvs 2-4 on their own or in small groups. It just seems odd that nature classes have to go into the zig to get a chunk of their XP down low lvs

Right now the server is great.  Plenty of conflict intrigue and PC interaction.  It's great there us usually atleast one DM on whenever Im playing.  One thing I think DMs could focus one is providing either IG support or scripted things to help futher uncover the mysteries of Ymph.  There is stuff out there I know but things like learning to change the weather, where do you start?  I've found plenty of interesting locked doors and I for one am intrigued by what's there and how it could be a place to expand.

I want there to be more stuff in the gobsquat because of:

"Welcome to Gobsquat! Population 0!"

I think that the gobsquat has now become a no-man's land. Nobody likes to go there, nothing is happening there, and nobody wants to go to the hanged goblin.I tried to start up the Hanged Goblin Plots and traditions once more, before the big war between gobsquat. Because of the War sadly, none of my tournaments were successful, and none of the events there were worth while.

"[09:55] Rake in the Russayyy"

EFU needs many things, but I think most importantly it needs players to take more risks.

Risks = chances = conflict = intrigue = fun.

EFU is more life like and more thrilling to both watch and play, when PCs are doing more things to lay it all on the line to advance plots, goals, and agendas.

Whatever those plots/goals/agendas may be, get out there and don't be afraid to stir shit up.

Quote from: Elytherin Dragonius;161799I know its entirely up to the player to explore and find the secrets of Ymph but i guess if there was more of a reason to look deeper into some places it would encourage more exploration,

Exist in abundance.

Quote from: Elytherin Dragonius;161799I guess if there were vendors found out in the extremes that sold items that were more powerful than what you could get in and around Zig and that are highly desirable it would drive more exploring.

These exist too.

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Not meaning to demean your suggestions, just thought I'd let you know.

As for what EfU needs, I'd say 'fewer trolls' for a start, though trolls on the low road would be great, also.

Agree with RWG.

EFU's health is a direct correlation not with DM time or DM plots but rather with PC pro-activity! A dynamic atmosphere is made by players not DMs, always has been/will be!

I do feel as though quite a few players are being dynamic (having goals, pushing agendas, getting into conflict) at this time and I want to say, good work and keep it up.

Skills

I know the skill system is a back burner to alot of people but it seems pretty neat and I think it could use some added details in the journal and some new things added. (Extra recipes?)
 
I mean I don't want this to be wow where I am killing a dragon for a tailoring recipe, but I just think being able to create more might be good to.

QuoteId like to see more people exploring the place.

Me too. I remember when i first joined, this was the most fun of all. However not many people seem to do so. Why? maybe they don't feel it's worth their time, the chances you'll find something neat are low, and you can always find that one enemy that can kill your entire party if you are not prepared. Most of the RP can be done while staying in a single wild area, out of danger, and it also takes a lot of time. Plus, if you are near a PvP conflict, you want levels and lootz, more specifically potions, if the time for fighting your arch nemesis and win-or-die draws near, it's likely better to quest, that way your chances of winning increse.

I think incresing the frecuency of random events and sub-bosses could help making people more encouraged to explore. Speaking of sub-bosses, i usually find 3 enemies + the sub-boss, and the boss is not really intresting at all. I'd like to see greater mobs of weaker enemies surrounding the sub-boss, so the fight would feel somewhat larger and more worhty of having. This bosses should also have abilities that were easily noticable, usually it's just a strong version of the enemy. But what if you follow DIIs example and make bosses that are extremly resistant, give buffs to their minions, are extra-fast, have an aura that damages enemies, cast spells, teleport, etc? This would make the battles much more fun.

I also would like to see more consitent spawns in the wilds of enemies that aren't necesarily the bane of the party nor a bad joke. Add goblin hunting parties, or packs of weaker werewolves. Avoid the 1-enemy-that-can-kill-all and the joke enemies (like nightmare bats) to add spawns that are in between the two.

Speaking of werewolves, i'd like to see less elder werewolves. I think they should be rare, but are not really. Change their name and make the actual elders rare and more powerfull if you want, but i think elders should be rare.

Exploring asides, i'd love to see evil-oriented quests. Most quests are meant to recue, kill the baddies, save the village or cleance the place. If future quests added would be about killing good aligned monsters for evil purposes, it could make evil PCs feel more evil.

And on PvP conflict, i hate that the best supplied PC (the one who hoards potions) is always the winner. I find it lame TBH, since i am scared shitless of any PvP since i have no idea how you people make to find the stoneskin/inproved invis potions or how do you manage to store that many lesser spell potions. Powerquesting = victory in PvP as i understand it, but i find PCs that quest less usually more intresting. I wish the number of non-healing potions a PC can drink in a single amount of time to be restricted, maybe 3 per turn, enough to drink haste/blur/displacement or some other smart combination. The best supplied PC still wins, but not by THAT far. Also gives more credit to wand-users or custom castspell loot.

Speaking of this btw, i still think the prices of wands should be fixed. Offensive evoker wizards really don't get much of a chance of showing how offensive they are due to the spell limit, less they get an eternal chip of ice, that is cool but isn't too noticable. If magic missile wands, negative energy ray wnads, ice dagger wands, etc. were cheaper, more wizard PCs could look magical by unleashing magic at their foes at most times (not only on the large key-mob of the quest is in front of you and the wizard conveniently knows *coughs, metagame* it is there where he should use the fireball.) Same goes with level 3 wands, wich are simply not viable less you are the blur whore wizard who logs on time to recieve the orders.

Also, Offensive spellcasting loot should be reserved for wizards/sorcerers and maybe bards & druids. I hate when i see armors that cast melf's acid arrows, and items of Fear (7)/ single use usable by all. The fighter looks more magical due to the ammount of potions he drinks than the wizard. More wands and rods for spellcasters, that cast offensive spells.

I'd also like you to add a chessboard. Yep.

And more eggs in the sunken enclave. If i have to spend another 2 days killing eggs just to be killed by the symbioths that spawn out of nowhere, and return to level 2, it's going to take me a month to have the level and/or supplies to actually go to the surface and do real stuff. Especially since there seem to be no other risers atm, not on my gametime at least.

I think I'd like to see a more 'steady' movement of plots. Sometimes they seem to stall for a long period of time or not ever get finished off at all and that can be kind of frustrating.

Also, when players have a major impact on those plots it would be nice to see that reflected in-game somehow. That mostly relates to large scale meta-plots.

QuoteAnd on PvP conflict, i hate that the best supplied PC (the one who hoards potions) is always the winner. I find it lame TBH, since i am scared shitless of any PvP since i have no idea how you people make to find the stoneskin/inproved invis potions or how do you manage to store that many lesser spell potions. Powerquesting = victory in PvP as i understand it, but i find PCs that quest less usually more intresting. I wish the number of non-healing potions a PC can drink in a single amount of time to be restricted, maybe 3 per turn, enough to drink haste/blur/displacement or some other smart combination. The best supplied PC still wins, but not by THAT far. Also gives more credit to wand-users or custom castspell loot.

Firstly, your assessment that the best supplied PC wins is absolutely incorrect. It couldn't be more erroneous. I can't count how many times I have seen the massively supplied PC be beaten by a lower level, lower-supplied PC. I know several players who could be counted on to achieve such a feat nearly every time because they understand the dynamics of PvP, which I think you do not. I suggest you practice more, and in time you may agree!

As for the second point, where you ascertain that the most interesting characters are the ones who don't quest often, again, that's just wrong. There is no direct correlation between interesting and questing. You can have interesting PCs who quest alot (in fact most of the memorable PCs of EFU's history have quested often) and you can have interesting PCs who do not. There is no relationship there at all.

Just clearing some misconceptions up, back on topic. :p

Not to drag this on, but you can create great conflict without going straight to blows. Sure it might wind up there at some point, however conflict shouldn't always be about bashing on each other. I think creativity goes a long way to making things fun.

But yeah, sorry to derail this further, I just felt the need to put that out there.

I don't know, I'm pretty awful at PvP anyway, but it would be nice if we could lessen the amount of potions people seem to be getting somehow, even if it's true that it doesn't help that much.

Quote from: Random_White_Guy;161804"[09:55] Rake in the Russayyy"
 
EFU needs many things, but I think most importantly it needs players to take more risks.
 
Risks = chances = conflict = intrigue = fun.
 
EFU is more life like and more thrilling to both watch and play, when PCs are doing more things to lay it all on the line to advance plots, goals, and agendas.
 
Whatever those plots/goals/agendas may be, get out there and don't be afraid to stir shit up.

I'm relatively a newcomer to this server, and so my words are like that from a foriegner adjusting to a new country, rather than a long-standing veteran with established views of "What EFUA Should Be".
 
But, since you ask of our opinions, I shall throw in mine...
 
As much as I like "conflict", I enjoy conflict on various levels. I often believe that battle is the climax of a conflict, rather than the whole definition of it. I enjoy all the subtle nuiances, the build up, the insults, the trickery, the backdealing, planning, the emotions of bystanders, collateral damage, the..... story. In a story, the tragedies and fortune that happen upon the characters mean nothing to me if I do not feel attached to them emotionally.
 
In the short time I've been here, I've seen so many factions and players rise up and dissapear that it's dizzying. Throw in events that tackle one in real life, and it's twice as dizzying. I'm enjoying my time here, but one of the things I can't seem to enjoy (yet, anyway) is the short lifespan of everyone and everything here, and especially in the context that game time is in "real time". Sometimes, it feels almost as if "Oh, here's the new flavor of the month or two" (And I mean to not offend people, really, but this thought has occurred more than once, and I've gleamed such on the Internet Rage Channel occassionally as well).
 
While I constantly hear conflict is the center of this server, has it always climaxed so fast? Has the what-seems-to-be average lifespan always been so "short"? If anyone else here feels things are rather "too" short, I would hear not only your voices, but your reason for that voice as well.
 
Of course, compared to the exceedingly long character and faction life I'm used to on other servers, it could be considered refreshing as well. Mirkali, my character on the server Narfell (which I hear is now a shadow of its former glory... a bit of irony if you know FR history), was played for about 2 1/2 IRL years, which I admit, I could have cut perhaps the last 1/2 to 3/4 of a year out.
 
Often people wonder why I keep making comparisons to the other server, and I don't mean to come off as saying "Be More Like X Server", but I hold it for comparison because it's the only server that made me laugh and cry; Multiple times... not because of some OOC obsession of bettering other players or being beaten by them... but because the character development and the multiple climaxes in his story were so enjoyable that they remain some of the fondest memories in my gaming experience. Ever.
 
I haven't felt that here yet. A few smiles, some laughter...
 
But I don't give up hope. Maybe I've only found the tip of the iceberg of EFU:A, and I shall find what I lost long ago and seek once more to this day. Though maybe, I've grown older now, and jaded with Persistent Worlds, and I shall never find the immersive, beautiful story that I lost. Perhaps, with my next character, I'll simply try things out the way that others seem to do things here, and see if that brings a different sort of enjoyment.
 
Either way, real life permitting, I plan to see more of this server as I'm able.
 
While I'm typing... a few requests (in no particulary order) to the DMs who create the server plots and theme...
 
*) The Houses were brought in with Trenada, and have had some things happen with them, but I think there's great potential for future plots of having more... .... involving conflict between the houses, more involvement of players becoming part of the established houses. It would be to the greater amusement of people I think if there were more cloak-and-dagger politics between these houses... as... at the moment they seem to me as "curtains" that hang with the scenary. If you can tell, I like subtle political intrigue. A lot. I hear this was popular in old EFU as well.
 
*) While "sandbox" player conflict is great, I've found a lacking of any plots recently with enemies that threaten the Colony's welfare as a whole for a while now. Maybe they're on the horizon, or some think them "stale", but I think a steady stream of these, with a variety of threat levels (As they need not all be "End of the World" scenarios) along with player conflicts would be more enjoyable, as I find the diversity refreshing.
 
*) Some events seem to drop by the wayside as far as being posted on the forums. I like to think that personally, that The Colony, with so little to do and what have you, is like a small town, and gossip would be rampant even with what most would consider "trifling" things. I'd suggest posting these more, or perhaps create a seperate DM-controlled post within the Ziggurat forum to manage less-server-wide-implicating-event-rumours.
 
Those are the three for now that I'd suggest.... "flavor-wise"? And do forgive me, DMs, if you find such insulting, as often seems to be the case here is that us players don't see what's behind the scenes or what may be coming, and if there's any subtle "cues", then I've surely not picked up on them.
 
Thanks again for all who listend to my two cents, and once again, it was meant to be helpful, as well as a view from myself personally, though naturally, being the foriegner here, I might be missing a lot.

Scruffy is more right then wrong in my honest opinion. Character turnover happens, but it isnt productive. I'd like to see a couple things, and I'm well aware that they're not liking to happen.

First, more rumors. Rumors are great because they are NOT news, but snippets of "have you heard" or "so and so said that her friend was listening on a conversation between the Duke and one of Lords of the houses arguing!" My point: Little things make the server feel like more is happening behind the scenes, the there could be a world out there that has things happening in it that isn't all player controlled. Heck, It doesn't matter if these snippets had a historical reason for happening, it doesn't matter if they are true or false, anyone reacting to or talking about or hypothesizing what could be, what happened, what it could mean, etc are all reactions to little things. DMs can clearly inspire players without requiring quests or specific collectible items to collect In the same breath, we can do more to make these up as well, its just typically harder the smaller the base becomes. Fun times though.

Its just about the little things that maybe accidentally turn into that much more. Lies or truth, rumors about certain PCs could inspire allot of reactions, and reactions are fun.

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Players need to live longer. Characters that last the 3-6 months are some of my favorite of all time. Questing kills a huge bit, pvp turned bloody first rather then taunting or physical warnings or the like. This is more to other players, and I'm sure many of them already know this. But simply because its IC to kill someone, doesn't always make it the best story producer. I believe people should consider how this could be done in ways that inspire more story from it, merely then gank-win scenarios. This hasn't been horrible lately, so maybe I'm over reacting.

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Factions need to have other factions react to them. They need goals that makes them different then the guy next to them. Factions need to bump against most other factions, whether positively or negatively. The more gray that happens the more interesting. If everyone just goes, there are two teams, and chooses a side--its boring. If everyone gets along, its dead and horrible. If everyone is fighting then things are happening all the time. ICly Peace is cool, OOCly peace is meh quest then. I'd also say that factions should represent a part of the server, the more alien a faction is to the world its being played in, the more stretched out the player base is. We don't have enough to spare :P

I'm just talking. Daz didn't really make clear what he wanted to know, but I figure it'll make sense. I'm not bothering to proof read this, so if stuff's backwards, then so it is.

First off, the lowbie quests are nice. I'd like to see some soloable stuff higher, but that's no big deal. 2-4 quests get characters into the survivable levels fairly quick and painless. Unless you're a mage/rogue, I guess. Most things on the server itself default to 'pretty sweet', too.

That said, few bits I don't think are viable projects, but could use attention. One being 'Friking Death Wildlife'. Really, how did the guy with the cart even get his ox and wagon this far, when I can't sneak out for tripping over animals that devour my fresh lvl6 outside the gate zones? For that matter, what path did he take? There are kobolds all over that one, orcs all over this one, spiders down that one, and death cats and dogs on all of them. I know it's an unforgiving wilderness out there, but can we get some roads or something? Just because ruthless carnivores could be there doesn't really mean they should be.

Also, just a check, but could we make sure PCs and NPCs are on even footing, at least? Just taking a level of a PC class in normal PnP 3.X indicates you're beyond most people, but I could settle for that being in potential rather than ability. Sure, they've had long lives before you came along, but chances are, so did you before you were zapped/crashed/spawned into Ymph.

Tag on the potions. I'd like to see fights revolve more around fighting than buffs. The fights I've seen that haven't been magic-restricted duels mostly center on who uses the right consumable at the right time, with occasional deference to Knockdown. Regardless of if they should, or if they have to, most I've seen do. Potions are absurdly common. I have a backpack full of the things myself, to the point that I can whip out more spells in a single encounter than a mage can cast for an entire adventure, healing aside.

Seriously. It's as though someone along the design process was scared that PCs couldn't handle quests without buffs, and couldn't wrangle a mage or two half the time. A matter of opinion I happen to disagree with, but in the end not too bad for PvE. And then it carried over to PvP, and hoarding potions by the truckload, and it all went screwy.

So I guess that carries over to my own request. Less reliance on consumable organization/collection, more on your character's build, your party's strengths and weaknesses, and general tactics. This would seem to require many, many less consumables. Slow and steady non-combat healing items combined with a few low-use 'Emergency Heal' type items, maybe. Not sure, but it would need a real overhaul.

tl; dr: Potions are OD'd, PCs aren't OP, tanks have high AC, but can't take spell DCs.

Just to respond to Tanonx, That's more the manner of the beast that is NWN. If potions aren't used, then when spells and buffs go up people will obliterate everything. If they are expected to be used, then its hard to do anything without them. Without being able to alter nwn, allot of this is not likely to be changed. :(

I'm hoping that it's possible to manage a middle ground, with buffing potions being rare enough that even minor ones are saved for tougher fights, with standard buffs and blasts being provided by mages, something like a standard 3.5 game.

Buffs, in my opinion, should make people more powerful, like they do, and everyone should have one or two for when their backs are against the wall. But it shouldn't be at the point where the biggest issue is organizing the oodles of potions you have so that you can get them off first.

On the topic of character longevity, everyone has their own style and personal tastes.

Personally, I enjoy playing and DMing for high impact characters that make the IG atmosphere tense and exciting before dying whilst attempting one of their brazen goals or fighting one of their many PC enemies.

In the end though, you can make your character last as long as you want. There are always ways to survive any conflict. If you prefer a character that lasts for months and even years, then you're welcome to play one! But by no means does it mean others enjoy such, so you shouldn't really expect or ask for it.

Agreeing with Caddies: more characters need to die so their players can move on.

No, seriously, this is my feeling on the subject.

Also more DMs, not for more time or plots specifically but just because.

Firstly:

"EFU's health is a direct correlation not with DM time or DM plots but rather with PC pro-activity! A dynamic atmosphere is made by players not DMs, always has been/will be!"

I disagree. Good players can make good, dynamic atmosphere without a doubt, we could all cite endless examples. But to absolve DMs of responsibility for atmospheric dynamism is head scratchingly silly. DMs can generate absolutely magnificent story arcs, which draw players like moths to the flame. My favourite moments on this server have been when DMs unravelled some key plot point with at an appropriate time, leaving me stunned and surprised. DMs power over the environment gives them a better chance of using good theatrical timing to tell their stories, something players rarely get to do.

Good story telling, good atmosphere and a good role playing game come from DMs and players sparking off each other. Ergo, when DMs are online, the server improves in quality, it couldn’t be otherwise. The difference in quality of the setting during DM time and low DM time is markedly clear. This isn't for a second to say the responsibility for a fun server rests on the DMs shoulders, either. The process is cooperative - active PCs and active DMs make for a better playground.

However, having said all that, back on topic:

The Good:

The server reeks ambiance. The scary jungles, the cannibalistic halflings, the gobsquat, the mysterious half-clues about ancient cataclysms. All in all a five star effort. The server looks good and feels good to walk around in. It smells rich and inviting, and you feel wherever you poked your stick in the water, you would find the world setting to be deeper than your arm.

The Bad:

World setting responsiveness. I might be way off the mark here, but I feel the capacity for a player to impact the setting with an idea alone has reduced. To illustrate this, let me tell a story from my very first EfU character, Frudoc.

I had an idea that it would be cool if we had a free asylum/hospital in Lower, dedicated to the sick and mentally insane of the underdark. It would be a front, of course, and the now barely-a-spoiler illithid would use it to siphon brains of the poor for his bar. The way I just described it just now was the amount of detail I sent in an off-the-cuff PM to a DM in game. He replied, "good idea, lets do it". I started walking to the illithid's bar, but was ported there immediately by the DM. The details were discussed IC. Next reset, there it was in Lower, the start of an asylum, complete with weird looking scary equipment. All of a sudden I had the start of a series of player driven quests (I need to surreptitiously move giant vats of brain storage equipment through the dark, any volunteers?). I had a brand new faction to recruit for. I had guards to dodge, and Lower folk to lie to and, from nothing, a whole story was written. (For those wondering why they cannot remember any of this, Magister ganked me only a few days later!)

That event, however, was what totally sold me on the game. It made the server feel like a truly flexible and unique RP environment, where the DMs were working overtime to beat the limitations of a computer environment - fixed NPC dialog and pre-coded geography. At that point I truly felt if I got a shovel and emoted "digs a hole in the ground", there would be one there on the next reset.

There was no application, no "gather your minions and reputation first, and then well talk about it", no "play a few good characters then we will see". There wasn’t the slightest feeling that interaction with a DM was something that needed to be earned. There was just involvement and participation for a brand new player. And it was awesome.

Now? Not so much.

The Ugly:

People here seem to be OOC on edge. I would love to see the forums and the chat channel be friendlier and less critical. I think there are various DMs who I believe give bad examples to the other players. It’s a cooperative game, which you literally cannot win or lose, played by a small community. I believe that people could be more relaxed, respectful and helpful, and the server would be a better place. Hardcore PvP environments demand extra attention be paid to OOC respect, because it is so easy to let bad juju creep into your headspace.

I didn't read the rest of the thread since the only opinion that matters is mine.


What EFU really needs, is for a firm campaign against everyone idling and meeting outside kingsman's. Bring back the loitering law, have some bitches thrown in jail, make kingsman charge these filthy loiterers extra on the rare occasion they actually enter the premises.


FFS people you don't go to a bar/inn to hang around outside, you go to a bar to go inside and get completely retarded with your friends.

The reason people hang around outside, is we have a huge server, and from that location you can see the intersection of allot of different places. So it gets traffic. If the King'sman had a window in which we could see if people were walking into the city maybe doing something, we might be able to slip our solo selves on over there. >_> imo

Quote from: Ebok;161906The reason people hang around outside, is we have a huge server, and from that location you can see the intersection of allot of different places. So it gets traffic. If the King'sman had a window in which we could see if people were walking into the city maybe doing something, we might be able to slip our solo selves on over there. >_> imo

an out door cafe' style bar perhaps?

Admittedly I have only skimmed through some of these points, so you'll have to forgive me if I repeat issues that has already been covered.
 
The forum information section, especially the factions one, is quite outdated as it still lists both the Colonial Guards, Sharboneth and the Order. I know that it may be vexing to keep updating the forum along with the many changes on the server, but this seems like an update that is quite overdo.
 
Now, I do not know how many people check out the forum before/after, but I know I direct many players with questions to it, only to realize that it must be a frustrating venture to try and tease information out of it.

QuoteI disagree. Good players can make good, dynamic atmosphere without a doubt, we could all cite endless examples. But to absolve DMs of responsibility for atmospheric dynamism is head scratchingly silly. DMs can generate absolutely magnificent story arcs, which draw players like moths to the flame. My favourite moments on this server have been when DMs unravelled some key plot point with at an appropriate time, leaving me stunned and surprised. DMs power over the environment gives them a better chance of using good theatrical timing to tell their stories, something players rarely get to do.

Oh I agree! With all of that. I merely meant to say that above all things, its the inter-PC interactions that make for the best stories and count for the most memorable moments. DMs certainly do make the atmosphere come alive (its the defining reason for DMing, really!) but what we do or not isn't quite as important as PC initiatives. In your example, Frudoc wanted to make an asylum that was secretly a brain farm for a hungry illithid, that was PC pro-activity rather than a DM plot and that's the sort of sweet PC agenda I was talking about.

With regard to setting responsiveness, I agree. But the reality is that when Frudoc was around we had a -much- smaller playerbase (this was EFU alpha, IIRC?) and many more DM hours/focus. EFU is now three years old, the playerbase much larger and currently, the DMing much less frequent. Its unfortunate, but we do the best we can. Hopefully our current discussions on potential DMs will help this setting responsiveness come alive again once more. :)

At the moment in terms of DM's activity. I personally have never seen better in the year or so i've been playing here. So that's kudos.

On quests. There is a nice number of quests for lowbies. it's fairly easy to reach 6 on a pc without trying too hard which is good. And tougher to get past 7+ which is also good. Keeping the server levels at the middle range means more people are willing to take risks/pvp others. I know soemtimes pvp doesn't occur with one "team" because they have a lvl 10 powerhouse backing them up who thusly scares everyone off.

On potions and supplies, those who complain that "questing = pvp win" couldn't be more wrong. I've been in a lot of pvp on the server, and i can say hand on heart that if you go in with the right attitude. (or jsut dispels) you cant bring most people down.

I personally am a massive fan of puzzle quests and challenges (such as bilbys/puzzlers) i would love to see more of these implemented, even with a low exp payout so people don't just lame them for exp. but do them for the fun of it. I also think invasion quests are amazing, and there recently been a new one added that is such great fun to do with a big team. Makes for great RP too.

Currently inter-faction rivalry is fantastic! the new sons faction is booming and the stygians are doing good! This sort of big server-changing inter-faction stuff is the stuff the makes epic legends. So keep it up guys!

Basically, the server is rockin' out currently. I'm just hoping that this continues and we see people doing epic stuff!

People should join the factions more. Epic plots for epic characters await.

I didn't read much more than Daz original post, so if someone already said this or something similar I apologise for that.

Either way what comes to mind is that we still have no settlements such as Fort Mur or the Sleeping Pyrimo, to compare with the Underdark. I understand we do have a few settlements outside of the Ziggurat, and the Docks have taken quite a turn recently. But still, there's nothing to quite fill the role that those (Mur, Pyrimo) did back in the days, and even though I realise we're in a setting where evil is less of the norm one such settlement would be healthy in my opinion.

Now again, I reserve myself for the possibility that one such may already exist as I am not 100% updated.

Quote from: ScruffyMcSmirkalot;161874As much as I like "conflict", I enjoy conflict on various levels. I often believe that battle is the climax of a conflict, rather than the whole definition of it. I enjoy all the subtle nuiances, the build up, the insults, the trickery, the backdealing, planning, the emotions of bystanders, collateral damage, the..... story. In a story, the tragedies and fortune that happen upon the characters mean nothing to me if I do not feel attached to them emotionally.

I wish I could get a tattoo of this. I've been here since shortly after the beta, and I feel exactly the same way. To me, this is the greatest weakness of EfU.

If DMs started handing out random role-play experience awards for good one-liners or brilliant forum posts (which used to happen oh, so long ago), players would immediately shift their attention somewhat from questing and PvP to a more nuanced style of play. This is how it works on just about every server in the Role Play section of GameSpy, and I wish EfU would de-emphasize the OMG-KILL-PWN-YEEEAH! aspect of play just a few hairs and put some more emphasis on the actual stories that drive the conflicts. The plots here are AMAZING! It baffles me that people frequently do not stop the fighting long enough to really savor them.

I love both action and story, but I have always thought EfU was a bit heavy on the former to the exclusion of the latter. Character lifespans are -way- too short.

I agree with just about all of what Scruffy said, and I also like what Egon added to it.

Canzah, There are four places already.

Castle Blackhearth

Gaeserics Camp of Barbarians.

Stargazer Forest.

Exiled's Camp.

Not much to add at the moment other than I sometimes ponder if the reason characters have such short lifespans is the speed in which it is possible to gather vast amounts of supplies and level up.

I can't help but wonder, if it actually took some effort to get to level 6 would everyone be so keen to take risks. Now some people take too few risks and I suppose this would be detrimental to them. But there are many whom take too many risks sometimes. Leading to a lot more fighting than actual diplomacy when it comes to disputes.

I'd actually like to see leveling to at level 4+ slowed down quite a bit believe it or not but I'm doubtful such will ever happen!

I like that certain factions are getting major love. The Targus run was awesome to watch and interact with. The Pallid Mask seems to be gathering steam. The Stewards (Shout out to the homies! Woot!) are doing their thing. The Stygians are always in the ever developing struggles of the colony and lands around them. RwG is running with the Tempus thing, which is really cool and shaking things up outside the colony (side note: RwG find out who the hell the sisters are that the Tempurian(sp?) outside the old gladiator arena always talked about, then screenie that shit! :) ). All seems to be moving wonderfully with all factions ingaging in the same turmoil in various different ways.

The DMs seem to be steering the NPCs and PCs in approriate directions, and making it fun for others. The lack of DMs is a minor, but could be improved, but we've seen the agruments about taking away from the player base and such. I understand the DMs restraint to bring in new DMs.

What bugs me... I mean this with no offense....

Gobsquat bugs the hell out of me. Goblins in no way can be made civilized, goblins are evil, evil, evil, evil. Gobsquat for me has become more of an eyes sore. Its the Jar Jar Binks of EFU:A. Here lately its served no function, nothing interesting has happened or changed in the area, aside from the suicide bomber from the docks.

What I would like to see is a group of Kozah (Talos) followers emerge and level the area with lighting bolts from above. Gobsquat has closed its gates, rarely anyone wants to pay the gold to get in. Perhaps it also reminds me of the Lower Sanctuary towards the end, like a reused plot. Here are goblins, drive the goblins into the sewers, then watch as the goblins repopulate and snatch their land back.

The Floating Island, perhaps my own imagination got in the way, but I felt disappointed.

I thought this was going to be like mountain side type lands dotted with ruined and ancient building staring out into the horizon. Walking the cobble stone streets covered in decaying underwater plants and filled with the stench of decaying underwater life. When I transitioned into the new area I was left with the feeling of "Oh... this is it?" I then learned that the rest of the area required traveling beneath the surface of the area and into the rock itself. I sort of lost interest in the area from then on out.

H'Bala seems to be the big baddy of the server, but there is rarely any activity from this NPC. What I'm saying is perhaps more showing that as time passes H'bala is growing in power, that she can reach out from her prison. Have a large band of shipwreck sailors attack the colony, or something to that effect.

The Mist has kinda disappeared, it seems like the waters between the isles are now more easily travelled and not as scary as once before. Bring the Mist back and her fickle temperment, and mystical creatures.

I think that's it, if I think of more I'll add it. Peace!

I know it won't happen as it's been discussed before and nix'd but I think changing the death system to loss of a Con point rather than XP loss would make for a huge differance to both RP and powergaming. People wouldn't be so willing to powerquest which would cut down on the "powerquesters have more loot" issue. This also would make people actually RP their way through a quest instead of running it. It would also slow things down enough that you might see new and more unique character concepts. It would be easier to RP being less healthy due to a loss of a constitution point than it is to RP having a skill, feat or spell one day and not the next (thats just silly IMO)... Anyway, just throwing my 2 cents into the mix.

And OH, btw!

Quote from: Elytherin Dragonius;161912an out door cafe' style bar perhaps?

Except for PC's chatting it up in the rain, this would be way cool.

1.  Every time I talk to DMs OOCly they are great.  I don't hang out in IRC a whole lot, but when I do get a chance to say hi and shoot the breeze its apparent that they are down to earth and very willing to listen to IG stuff.

Also, the server has been very well covered by the stretched-thin DM staff and it seems they are really doing a lot of fun things lately.  Awesome.

But. There's always a but. When I'm IG and shoot a tell to a DM to request something, most of the time there is no response.  Now I KNOW you guys are flooded at times and its impossible to process everything, but nonetheless I sometimes think my request is considered frivolous and annoying - and is being ignored as a result.  If it is, then tell me so and why if you have time.

So...should we spam the piss out of the DM channel and send "Does a DM have a minute.....does a DM have a minute....does a DM have a minute." like every five minutes or so?  Same goes for PMs.  Do mailboxes get full and they are overlooked or disappear?  

I guess maybe I'd like a DM to at least shoot a quick, "Busy" to me if they are busy.  If they don't have time, maybe a "I'll look for you tommorrow sometime."  


2.  If the DM staff would like to see more exploring of wilderness areas as a form of "risk-taking", tone down either the power or frequency of spawns or both.  If the DM staff wants to keep spawns the way they are, have more random areas pop up each reset to reward explorers.  Is there any way to make them like scripted quests in regards to party size and level range?

If you don't want a small group of PCs farming these each rest, then maybe make "random areas" a quest that only allows you to enter one.  If that's a pain in the butt to script, then make it very OOCly clear that a PC should only do 1, maybe 2 random areas each reset except by special request.  

Otherwise, its just not practical to wander around and burn supplies to get VERY little XP from killing spawns that could FD a character or two with a couple bad breaks or die rolls.

A DM can always drop a pair of ogre bandits or whatever on a PC party if the wilderness is supposed to be tough.  



3.  More short possessions of NPCs in leadership positions to talk or give advice to PCs.  Driving plots, furthering agendas.  Both in DM and PC factions (if there are NPCs in player factions), and in positions of authority to PCs outside the faction.  Players say this happens already, but I think more is better.  

I want to see an NPC steward walking around pwning spawns like Gaesseric used to in the UD.  I'd like to see Captain Drake leading a patrol into the foothills on a sweep.  I'd like to see the Black Company guard that walks from the castle to the main gates stop and take a piss or something.  I'd like to see a fence in the Docks try to sell a stolen magic ring.  An NPC cleric preaching their dogma and looking for followers and pushing an agenda.

Those little things are freakin' awesome to me.  If they are already being done, more please.

Thanks for listening DAZ and staff.

In Pnp gaming, as a DM I always supported the CON loss idea upon a character's raaise, along with an appropriate point loss perhaps to some other stat that was commensurate with the manner of death (Ooh, fireballed were you?  Okay there goes a point of charisma too).  But, with deaths being basically totally under DM control, deaths in my PnP campaigns were relatively rare and always required a raise dead spell to make a comeback.  In EFU, the randomness of the system and its technological quirks have to make me say NO!!!!!! to a Con point loss as well.  My last character died three times before even making it to its first quest (gotta love spawning in Starwood Village).  And there are plenty of random death opportunities out there that are really beyond your control (lag death, etc.) to warrant an even harsher death system.  

With that said I might support a CHANCE to lose stat points upon death, maybe only for higher level folks, or a conversation option that lets you choose to either respawn with XP loss or to take a stat point loss.

Quote from: RIPnogarD;161940I know it won't happen as it's been discussed before and nix'd but I think changing the death system to loss of a Con point rather than XP loss would make for a huge differance to both RP and powergaming. People wouldn't be so willing to powerquest which would cut down on the "powerquesters have more potions" issue. This also would make people actually RP their way trough a quest instead of running it. It would also slow things down enough that you might see new and more unique character concepts. It would be easier to RP being less healthy due to a loss of a constitution point than it is to RP having a skill, feat or spell one day and not the next (thats just silly IMO)... Anyway, just throwing my 2 cents into the mix.

And OH, btw!

Except for PC's chatting it up in the rain, this would be way cool.

I would also like to see more of the mystery-factor that was in EfU. In EfU we wondered what was going on in the spellguard tower, we wondered who owned the now abandoned headquarters underneath the lower district. We wondered who the Chosen were and what the appetite was.

I understand there's stuff like this on EfU:A, but for some reason it's just not at appealing to me... There's the mist, the evil sorceress in the tower, the nightriser curse, and so on, but I find I just don't care about these that much.

On the other hand, I really am enjoying the server a lot more as of late, especially the new set up for the dock district. Good Job.

Two things.

1.) This server needs more serverwide affecting plots, I mean I know we've got stuff like H'bala, the Rot, larvals...but they don't affect us at all. The closest we get is walking there ourselves and fighting the spawns.

2.) More faction friction.

Both I'd say players can do but a little dm encouragement would go a long way I reckon.

Oh I'd say try and tone down the island spawns, I mean seriously when was the last time people did orcs 2?

QuoteI agree with just about all of what Scruffy said, and I also like what Egon added to it.

I'm so eloquent people just assume it's me even when I haven't commented ;). That was  Ebok.

QuotePCs don't live long enough

They do if you don't play someone with a "death before dishonour", "fear no man" or similar attitude, and you try and survive. I played Egon the Balladeer for what 6-7 months, and Ahmed Kaliwazah for about a year I think. Conflict is an important part of the server, but you *don't* have to jump in swinging and yelling warcries, you can have a PC who puts self-preservation before a cause or profit and still be involved in plots. Ahmed helped his friends out, but actually arming up and risking himself against other PCs was always the last option. The usual method was arming, equipping, informing and covertly buffing people.

QuoteEvery Bugger Sits OUTSIDE the pub, not in it

A clear sign I need to play Danny more. Although even with him cajoling, I find PCs happy to stand about in the rain. People always making sendings for outside there doesn't help either. I try to vary mine a t least a bit. Unlike Sanctuary, we don't have a central plaza that most things are visible from, but a series of layers. It is a bit better in the Docks IMO as without the sendings and with a boxing ring in the Wastrel, people cluster at the pub more.

QuoteThe risk/reward for exploring is terrible

Depends on the area. If I'm playing a stealth or invis capable PC, I know the areas I can zip around looking for randoms/skinnable animals/bosses/mob vs mob fights/new locations and have a minimal chance of something WTFPWNING me, and the areas to avoid. However it is really variable what you can turn up. Skinning is pretty good for rewards, but the bigger catches are hard to beat. I think the exploring  would be improved by more stuff to reward explorers and investigators, not just smashbot hunters.

• Long distance high level delivery quests (both group and solo) would rewards for travelling about more and could be done via fighting through or sneaky delivery. PC couriers could stumble across randoms because they have a reason to sneak through more risky areas. Stygians could earn their pay guarding a delivery of ore or load of rare wood. Sons could try and hijack such convoys in order to turn in the reward to somebody else.
• Rare plants that will turn up "Lasts until next reset" consumables upon a Lore/Spellcraft/Heal check and are situated in normally un-travelled areas.
• Balance spawns to have either detection or stealth. That way the stealthy things are a threat to an unsuspecting combat type crushing through an area, and the spotters exist to deny areas to stealth/invis PCs randomly. You don't get jumped by Vines on a sneak or invis runner, but you do start worrying about that group of Trueseeing mobs in plain sight.
  
• More puzzles like the Machine and Puzzle room IMO.

I agree with the point on server wide plots.  Sometimes it feels with the new ziggurat polictics that the real scary bad guys are just forgotten.  The CON point loss system, well i'll be frank I think it's a bad idea.  Whilst it would stop rushing quests, something like dying early on with a PC would make a lot of people give up and make a new guy. Do you really want to play on with a major disadvantage from level 4?

I think Gwydion's suggestion is cool, random NPC possesion is interesting and can easdily flow on into interesting RP.  Also perhaps there could be a quest related to the Mist somewhere?  Something like sailors taken by it and magical orbs.  This could be cool as you could have a glimpse into whats going on with it.

QuoteGobsquat bugs the hell out of me. Goblins in no way can be made civilized, goblins are evil, evil, evil, evil. Gobsquat for me has become more of an eyes sore. Its the Jar Jar Binks of EFU:A. Here lately its served no function, nothing interesting has happened or changed in the area, aside from the suicide bomber from the docks.

I never played a goblin but I did play a EFU character aligned with Sewer town back when that was semi big in Underdark.
 
The truth is that while there is a nature hq, a docks hq and a zigg hq there has always been that "Other" faction. I know people do not always like the "Other" faction because A. it's usually evil B. it usually has zero pc interaction and C.it's usually not very scenic (Sewer town was not a hot spot.) The truth is for those people who dont' want to do the evil docks things, they get another option.
 
Gobsquat I don't think was ever meant to be a hub. Even if you had 5-6 goblin pcs it wouldn't be. It's just meant to be a place where exiles and low lives can hang out. The docks will always have the gangs true enough, but it's just a different vibe.
 
My two cents.

Gobsquat seemingly has come to a halt in activity and I think something needs to be done there. Granted, that something probably can come from players just as easily as dms (hint hint).

I also agree with Canzah, there certainly is no comparable places as Fort Mur or the Pyrimo.

QuoteThe truth is that while there is a nature hq, a docks hq and a zigg hq there has always been that "Other" faction. I know people do not always like the "Other" faction because A. it's usually evil B. it usually has zero pc interaction and C.it's usually not very scenic (Sewer town was not a hot spot.) The truth is for those people who dont' want to do the evil docks things, they get another option.

Gobsquat I don't think was ever meant to be a hub. Even if you had 5-6 goblin pcs it wouldn't be. It's just meant to be a place where exiles and low lives can hang out. The docks will always have the gangs true enough, but it's just a different vibe.

My two cents.

Perum gets it, I think. It's an area that DEFINITELY should not be a hub, or center of anything, or be particularly important, but it does provide a useful purpose for the server. We don't want it to be the center of plots and player activity. But it is nice as a place that can provide a refuge for certain kinds of PCs that are nice to have.

And yes goblins are evil but I think the place makes perfect IC sense. There is nuance in the degree of evil of things, and their capacity towards not just blindly attacking everything but being able to be kept in check.

I'd like to say that short PC lifespans are really on the players, and have nothing to do with the DMs. Really, I think it's for a couple reasons.

Subtle sorts of conflict have been undervalued, for whatever reason. Spying, exchanging information, working against another character's plans to derail them, rather than just charging up and taking a swing, these sorts of things are lacking. And really, you can almost see it on IRC where people are goaded into taking a more direct route, since that will bring you the most "IRC cred"...which is really kind of ridiculous when you think about it. So I'd love to see the more subtle kinds of conflict given more weight.

Also, I feel people are far too fast to go to FD in a lot of cases. This isn't to say in every case (before people start getting all defensive) because of course there's times when it's ICly justified, but I personally think it's born of fear. If you give someone a break and let them live they'll come get you later, and kill off your character, so you need to get them first.

Sure, letting someone off the hook might mean you "lose" in the end, but in most cases you're probably contributing more to the overall stories of server, as well as creating some OOC goodwill with other players. It will allow somewhat more continuity of storylines (both DM and PC initiated) and lead to more risk-taking overall.

My bad, both Egon and Ebok. But Egon, you're preaching to the choir. When I get in a groove with a PC, I will keep them alive for six months or more if I can help it. My problem is that other PCs drop so fast it's difficult to keep anything going for very long. PC plots tend to fall apart because of this, more than for any other reason IMO.

On the subject of new areas, I've long thought that the isles needed a smuggler's enclave full of pirate NPCs. Someplace where rumors abound of buried treasures, sunken ships loaded with gold, and maps where "X" marks the spot. It seems like a Netherese ruin would be a hot destination for thrill seekers and treasure hunters, Mist or no. Enough would take the risk to support a small population of brigands; people who would have very good reasons for avoiding the authorities of Old Port, and by extension, the Ymph Colony.

There ought to be more populated islands in general, for that matter. On the Dark Lake, there were at least 3 non-human ports of call, including a necropolis. In the Archipelago, there's just a few isolated and lonely destinations with very little in the way of merchants, quests, or other fun things to see and do. I keep finding these little clues everywhere about other islands, but I almost never see them represented. More coastlines, more underwater areas, and more islands, please!

I'm a big fan of short and quick NPC possessions, things that add to the atmosphere of the setting.
 
Also, I want to see more fantasy related phenomenons. Ghosts, fairies, mysterious, magical forces, and such, on a small scale.

The server is already really nice, so my two cents are more like "what could be done more":

1. Quick Npc possession, for the atmosphere. It can be guards chatting, a dog barking, whatever.

2. make more use of social skills, especially for low lvl quests, so that some people can reach lvl5 without having to bash stuff.

3. make a travelling zone (cf. thread) so as to encourage travelling. We need places like Mur, Kuota Isles, Pyrimo, Thomas's Shop, Curio shop, etc. Not to copy-paste those, obviously, but safe havens with a curious atmosphere.

4. bring back the sense of OMG we are surrounded by hostiles, and even if we hate each other, sometimes we must get along. Nightrisers, HBala....: they are there, but just avoided. There hasn't been a major threat since Red Eleint. Even the civil war could just be avoided by not taking sides.

5. Similarly, cut the ties with Old Port or any hope of foreign help or incoming. It always has me wonder why people stay on Ymph. Have people try to get off, be sunk by the myst or whatever. Make us feel alone, lost, and surrounded, not just a town where local lords fight each other for power and where we know badass NPCs will save our town from dire stuff.

5. Make more items class only or alignement only, so as to limit a little loot bloat, and to make spellcasting more worth it.

6. Concerning Gobsquat, i like the place, even if it competes a little with docks, it doesn't serve the same purpose. It's a squat, a refuge for the outcasts, not a growing settlement. BTW, sorry if i can't liven it up as much as i want with Kluckoo, but without questing i can't offer rewards for any events i've in store ;) I've gone broke just sending messagers here and there... Anyways, that PC aside, it's a great place, maybe too close to town. It might be a good idea to push the gobs deeper down, to have a "safe haven" on the way down inside the Zig.

7. I'd like to see much more of the myst. It's one of the coolest features of Ymph, imo, and i've only been involved once in something about it.

8. Name more DMs. ;)

9. Make more links with UD. Vault whipe everyone's PC in UD, and allow easier travel in those great underground areas

10. Make subdual mode more damageable to the people subdued. It's not taken seriously enough imo. XP loss, Lvl loss, CON loss, or something like that.

11. Summons: make a regeant/book? that can alter you default summon, not only at character creation for specialists.

12. Tune done preference about what is "expected": let people enjoy the game the way they like it, without having them fear DMs will never look at their PCs, or that they are under-par players. i'm getting weird tells these days about "omg i'm a poor player, how can i get dms to notice me". Like i'm the one to ask...

13. Let people enter DM factions without being too demanding about "what goals they'll achieve in the faction". Even DM factions have "followers" and not just leaders. Man, i want to be a guard just to be a guard. Do i have to have an interesting plot/ goal to do so? I understand you dont want people just "leeching", but DMs factions are missing people.

14. Reduce spawn points to force people to meet more often. Too many spawn points scatter the player base.

15. In this regard, the opposition between Docks and Zig is so high that we basically have 2 settlements, with people afraid of going into the other. That's not cool at my playing times when players are already few.

That's all on the fly.

Quote from: Letsplayforfun;16198512. Tune done preference about what is "expected": let people enjoy the game the way they like it, without having them fear DMs will never look at their PCs, or that they are under-par players. i'm getting weird tells these days about "omg i'm a poor player, how can i get dms to notice me". Like i'm the one to ask...

13. Let people enter DM factions without being too demanding about "what goals they'll achieve in the faction". Even DM factions have "followers" and not just leaders. Man, i want to be a guard just to be a guard. Do i have to have an interesting plot/ goal to do so? I understand you dont want people just "leeching", but DMs factions are missing people...

These two ideas...
[SIZE="4"]Seconded!!![/SIZE]

Stop worrying about people who loiter, be it in front of Kings, at zig top, or whatever.

People loiter because.... ta da: they are waiting.

Some are afk, some are in tell land, some are waiting for others, some have no faction and are waiting for  "someone" to talk to, some are waiting for a job, some are ajusting their inventory, some are ... whatever. It's part of multiplayer computer games.

NPCs stand about idle, don't fuss about PCs doing the same.

QuoteNot only do players and DMs need to do their parts, but the gameworld needs to be crafted in such a way as to incentivise proactivity.

EFU:A is crafted for proactivity -more- than EFU, actually. Fond retrospection aside, let's look at the facts. You cite the Council as the main example...the Council was generally 10 PCs every few months attempting to get on a Council of 5, which really didn't have that much power due to inevitable infighting. In EFU:A, we have a variety of things, most notably guild houses. In the Duchy, an enterprising religious leader or mercenary captain or merchant lord (etc) can rent out a guildhouse, attract followers, gain a reputation and be invited to the Council of Lords and Ladies that serves Trenada and thus exercise real influence over the setting. In the Docks, its much the same. A cunning criminal mastermind or evil cultist or compassionate charity worker (etc) will be able to rent out a guildhouse from the Sons and use those sweet areas with their free resting, secure meeting rooms and persistent storage to acquire power and prestige. Once someone does this in the Docks, the local NPC power will invite them into their inner fold. There they will receive equipment, more influence, authority in the Docks and a wage. Or they could decline, and several other IC avenues may be explored or opened up. In general its more exciting and interactive than the Council, by a long shot.

And that's just the guildhouses part. Various other paths to influence and power over the setting exist and I'm quite certain you could see them if you looked hard enough!

QuoteAt the moment, it seems very faction/plot/NPC driven.

A few months ago, everyone was complaining there weren't any plots and our factions sucked. Now we undertake what was a pretty massive project and its the wrong thing to do. :(

QuoteAnd also lacks a sense of centrality, given that the Governance of the Colony has changed about many times (far more profoundly than the Sanctuary elections) since the beginning, and seems to have been (until recently) ultimately driven by a completely separate setting (Old Port) and small numbers of PCs (small when compared to the entire server participating in elections).

Wouldn't a lack of strong centrality be a better environment for player pro-activity? And if we turn back time, and be realistic, the council elections were sort of seen as a routine bore by many players and in fact if we look at numbers in elections, only a small portion of the playerbase even voted or got involved in any way beyond a few passing comments. <_<

QuoteThe whole thing exudes an elitism that I think correlates with the points scrappayeti is making in the quoted section and my points above. So... in summary: both the setting and the server dynamic seem oppressive to autonomous, creative proactivity amongst players.

Not really. I mean, if you think EFU:A is oppressive to player pro-activity or creativity then I'm not really sure you're as acquainted with the server as you should be. Most of the other posts in this thread assert the opposite, saying we don't cater enough to PCs/players who aren't creative and proactive. Again, we just can't win. :???:

Quote from: Caddies;162016A few months ago, everyone was complaining there weren't any plots and our factions sucked. Now we undertake what was a pretty massive project and its the wrong thing to do. :(

Screw the haters. The plots are good and the Factions are utterly amazing, anyone who can't see that probably isnt directly involved with the factions themselves and therefore hasn't got a clue what they are saying.

Having been in both the Stygians and Now the Son's I can definately say that both faction are excellent, and they are most definately the -right- thing to do.

Quote from: Equinox;162019Screw the haters. The plots are good and the Factions are utterly amazing, anyone who can't see that probably isnt directly involved with the factions themselves and therefore hasn't got a clue what they are saying.

Having been in both the Stygians and Now the Son's I can definately say that both faction are excellent, and they are most definately the -right- thing to do.

I agree. Mind you, it is in no way necesary to belong to a DM faction to be awsome, or make the server notice you. Umbaktu & the blood legion are good examples. The best one i can think of though, are the thayans.

Speaking of the thayans, where the hell are they? did they just vanish?

Caddies, i think it was very cool to make the stygians more prominent, and i love the addition of the sons and the conclave. (although i still think it would have been better if the Thayan PC faction had been made into a DM faction IMO)

I suppose I'll throw in another three cents... so it can be a proper nickel worth of commentary. I haven't read everything in the post, so do forgive me if I repeat any views or words that others have already said.
 
*Red Italics in quotes for convenience...
 

Quote from: Caddies;161887On the topic of character longevity, everyone has their own style and personal tastes.
 
Personally, I enjoy playing and DMing for high impact characters that make the IG atmosphere tense and exciting before dying whilst attempting one of their brazen goals or fighting one of their many PC enemies.
 
In the end though, you can make your character last as long as you want. There are always ways to survive any conflict. If you prefer a character that lasts for months and even years, then you're welcome to play one! But by no means does it mean others enjoy such, so you shouldn't really expect or ask for it.

I apologize if I gave off the wrong impression, Caddies. As far as Play Style goes... I'm not one who believes akin to a modernist in that there's only one way to play (Though D&D itself is rather modernist in its values, but either way...), but I'm more of a post-modernist when it comes to "Play Style", as it's often "different strokes for different folks". Posing them as polar opposites, both the "Quick Blazing" Conflict and "Slowly Smouldering" Conflict styles have their individual merits. I was just simply expressing my preferred play style, or that I've found so far in my experiences, and seeing if I was really a minority in preferring this.
 
However, having heard some of the others, it makes me wonder... does the current "environment" favor a certain Conflict Style more than the other? I'm not accusing the environment of such, and DMs will DM what they want to DM, as they should as unpaid staff of this server. I'm merely raising the question. It seems that there's "many" (I'll use that loosely) that believe that for some reason that the "Quick Blazing" Conflict style is a dominant, althought that belief could be easily facilitated by the greater... transparency?... that's laid out when such Quick Blazing Conflict styles seem to lead to their final climax every two months. Also, if such Conflict Style is actually favored by the environment, then it might lead many to choose that Conflict Style over the other as they have no preference between the two, and merely wish to "succeed" in the environment.
 
As Daz didn't really specify that it had to be something that the DMs could accomplish alone, and merely what we felt the server may have been lacking or exceling in, I'd like to promote dialogue about this further.
 
Onto another thing, that I actually left out of the list, and didn't bother to add it in later, though it's also a question...
 
Nostalgia, and world shaping... the former being something I evidently have a great love for, as seen by my previous post, and the latter that I wish to expand upon... and combine the two.
 
In EFU:A (not talking about EFU), in what cases have the actions of Player Characters shaped the world, in a small or big way, that either is a change that stands despite all the violent change that occurs upon Ymph, or leaves behind even a simple landmark pointing to Player Characters and Player Factions of the past?
 
As I haven't been around long enough, I can't say that I really know many, so I posed it as a question first. I know I've seen markings of Red Elient upon the walls... Then there's the statue of the previous... Governer?... Just outside the Market Area... The sign in the Workshop Guild left by the Cleric of Gond... "Frog Roolz" marked upon a tree in the forest... The Proversion Merchant House, though that was burnt down...
 
I know the last three are left by players, and but I don't know enough about the first two to say if they were markings of a player faction or not.
 
I'd simply like to say that I like these little "landmarks". Reading "Frog Roolz" allows Nostalgia to overcome me, and a smile quirks on my face... and when someone asks who Frog is, Walther tells them of the great Stargazer Warrior who while sometimes was at odds with him, he held respect for and liked very much, as he defended his people... and as a character, was truely unique.
 
I'd request that, if possible, DMs might not only immortalize the previous NPCs, but also Player Characters when appropriate, more often than not, with even the smallest things that we simply pass by in the Game World, and then as veterns we remember the characters of the past once more, and as new players we question who these bygone characters were.
 
I'm a big fan of players and factions having a lasting impact (Whether it be a standing organization, a law, a crater, a building, a sign, graffiti, etc), and much like the Netherese leave both ruins and standing relics behind, it's great when players do this too.
 
Think that about sums it up. I hope my.... quandries... were helpful for facilitating more discussion, or were helpful in some way.

On the topic of nostalgia, I think we do a fairly decent job of enshrining past characters of note within the module. There are several statues to prominent PCs, a monolith to certain characters, various small references hidden around (such as the 'Frog Roolz' etching in the tree) and references within NPC dialogue, both toolsetted and in DM-possessed NPC speech. To be realistic though, such coverage isn't going to be uniform in any way and more often than not must be earned with either a unique concept and/or successes IG. Even then, its sort of random in that it depends if a DM with the module out remembers to add it after he fixes bugs/finishes scripts/builds areas etc.

I'll try and make a point of sweeping through the module every month or two from now on and making sure standout PCs leave their 'mark' somewhere fitting.

Well, all my gripes aside, this is still the best damn gaming experience anywhere on the internet.

I like when it seems like people actually care, players and DMs alike

I'd like it if it took less time to get into EFU:A. Granted the last time I played was like a year ago and according to EFUSL that was for eight hours in one sitting, mostly on one of Howland's DM quests, so things may well be different now. While it was fun at the time I felt I had wrung only two hours worth of fun from it not eight hours, and it was limited by the low level of my character and not ICly knowing anyone. If I put in maybe ten-fifteen more hours I could scratch the surface of what's going on and what else there is to do, but thinking about what else I could do with my time, I could start and finish a book, watch an entire season of a TV show, get really good at an FPS, play and get bored of most single-player games, build a relationship, etc. I also spent a lot of time on the old EFU, my last character in particular was swimming in plots, had a ton of DM attention, was meeting people/going places, etc. but when he had to end I came to the conclusion that this was it--this was the best EFU had to offer, and I could not shake the impression it didn't give back as much as I put in. I'm not looking for instant gratification but I do think you should compare this to other games out there. So much time is spent walking somewhere, waiting for someone to type out a response, waiting for someone to do something, waiting for someone to make it for a quest, waiting in general, that I feel if I want a good story I could just read a book (or play DA:O). Or if I want a challenge involving other people I could play an FPS or RTS.

So yeah, make EFU take less time to get into and you might find a direct benefit being that people have more fun because there is more stuff going on/server events seem more accessible and/or important/feel like their actions are affecting the world/players are more willing to talk to each other and toss out plot hooks/less boring stuff. An indirect benefit could be you attract more casual people and well-socialized people who keep their lives in balance with the game, and less of the "crazies" who have decided to stick around for whatever reason, thus causing less burn-out and more fun in that regard.

One of the great flaws of NWN PWs, one i noted when i played in the island of thain too, is that you need like 3 free hours to make sure you will enjoy the session, mind you, sometimes it isn't enough. You need to wait for people to log in, and the right people, at that. Be it at quests, you need the rigt classes (can't be all wizards and rogues), of the right levels that can enter the quest, and that haven't done it before. Other tasks are less demaning, but in general, all take some time to set up.

That is why i like "minigames" so much, they give you something to do while things get started.

I'd like people to consider ways of reducing this times.

Extend the quests level range, allow some quests to be done by 2 people, a remote way of adding somone outside the SQA while inside the SQA so they may join you in the middle of the quests.

Make ways for PCs to travel and get to the meeting palces faster. Give people something to do while they wait that is near the meeting place or HUB. Minigames, but not "solo" minigames, but rather soething 2 people can do while they wait for the thrid, maybe an area where friendly NPCs constantly fight MNPCs and players can join, at any time, knowing what to expect so they don't have to go ultra carefull and prepared... etc.

Ideas for how to make EFU less require less time are welcome.

I like LETSPLAYFORFUNs' idea about cutting off the connection with oldport! That I loved in the UD, being alone in the dark... 'Oh, a little dwarf, all alone in the Underdark' <-- Scariest tell, ever.

QuoteIdeas for how to make EFU less require less time are welcome.
                                                     

Since I do enjoy logging in for short sessions, I'll chuck a few out. I love the random events system, as if I'm only on for a short while I can explore in the hope of finding one and hit it solo or recruit a team depending on its nature. They never take long, and they are often a nice compact mix of combat and traps. I would enjoy seeing random event frequency upped, but with more minor ones added to balance that out. You wouldn't be expecting as much reward, but more chance of a novel challenge.

In fact, on that line, would it be possible to script a couple of short, level unrestricted random *quests*? The random transition would lead to a "lobby" map with a questgiver and another transition into the QA.

Love the idea of skirmish areas, although friendly NPCs could turn it into an invis loot farmign zone. I would suggest really increasing the frequency of attacks on claimable areas, adding a couple more claim points and makign the rewards obvious. Also make the system clearly indicate it's a reward for protecting the area, not "claiming" it. Then people aren't worried a major faction will stomp them for claiming "their" area, and it becomes a small PVE challenge not a conflict generator.

I would like skrimish areas as well. The loot reward from this areas should be low, as should the XP one, (the XP should be nearly none, or they become level up areas). To avoid invis-looting one could place a few archers with high spot/listen and see invisibility, allowing stealth and invis to be soemwhat effective to escape or sneak, but not to do so permanently.

The problem with any server--or game, rather--that has such a huge social component to it will always be the lack of interaction do to fluctating playerbase and timezones and such.
 
Any sort of "single player" aspect in the server would have to be very carefully planned ahead to avoid exploitation. Royal Dragon comes to mind, something to do, but just as well something that could ruin you (financially).

Quote from: Caddies;162016A few months ago, everyone was complaining there weren't any plots and our factions sucked. Now we undertake what was a pretty massive project and its the wrong thing to do. :(

I believe what people may try to disagree with is that PC efforts have been getting pressed aside to make way for DM plot efforts. A little more touch of the efforts that have been made by players in new implementations that are similar  would be nice. (The conclave, The Sons, Red Star Demon, ect) While those factions are wonderful they could have certainly taken on some aspects more fitting of player organizations that came prior to them I think. The Red Star Demon is another fork on that path but, from what's known, no one involved was working towards the ending that happened there and in fact were working for the opposite.


There are a ton of good options in this thread and hopefully it helps the DMs along as they create. I think the primary concern of mine is for people to stop comparing our current world to things that are long gone, stop comparing characters to the greats of old EFU or having nostalgia about an environment that was different  and perhaps more fun for yourself at that time.

  This goes alongside the suggestion to ease off of the expectations a bit and try to enjoy a wider variety of characters. I have had successful and unsuccessful characters myself and I put nearly the same amount of effort into each of them. Very few people (outside of like Howland) can create something amazing nearly every time and that shouldn't be the expectation, but something to aspire towards.

I think, in terms of reducing time, a very good thing to do would be to make lower level quests and ways to get involved more clearly visible and flowing. It might just be because my memory's imperfect, but the amount of lower level quests you needed a team in both Upper and Lower seemed much higher than here on EfUA.

It would encourage lower level players who know their way around to find other low level players and do stuff with them. As it is, I tend to find the majority of low level quests are basically soloable or too difficult for a bunch of new characters to do. Some like Boggs or Bat Tower that require multiple low level PCs and are right where you start would be what I would want to see on the server, in the Colony and the Docks.

Quote from: Howland;163368Ideas for how to make EFU less require less time are welcome.

Relax the XP penalties on dying.

Quote from: Kotenku;163486Relax the XP penalties on dying.

How would that make efu require less time? You'd spend just as much time and just be higher level for it >_>

i lose less exp when i die guess ill log on more

honestly i think it's up to the player how much time they invest. of course those who invest more time will get more out of it, but that's just the nature of the game.

Ideas to make EFUA take less time:

[LIST=1]

• Don't kill your rivals at the first opportunity. Murder should be a -last- resort. The longer you let a rival live, the less time that rival has to spend re-establishing his next character!


• Be more involving of new characters. I don't just mean let them into your quest train. Spend some time RPing with them in some significant way. Get to know them. Get to trust them, then let them in on your goals/plots/secrets.


• Stop making 'throw-away' characters whom you lead into certain death situations. Try a little empathy. This ties back into point number 1.

If more people could accomplish these simple things, then the level spam becomes much less important. Leading to more time for RP. You'll spend less time trying to prepare for that inevitable FD because you insulted badguyA's sister's dog and more time planning and participating in truly enjoyable play.

In short? STOP TRYING TO WIN.

while those are cool ideas fleetingheart, i have no idea how they make you invest less time

eventually any worthwhile pursuit is going to want power, either political or mechanical, that's sort of inevitably going to take some time. i think it'd be cool to have some things be pushed faster but i think that only really goes as far as dm/player interest goes unfortunately

I think that some of that could be accomplished by DM help in making guard factions effective. If you look at the arrest rate for ganking, it's not that high. Half the time, a simple disguise means nobody knew whodunnit. I like the idea of the Sons rather lax laws because it should drive PVP conflict in the docks that doesn't come down to "stab him inna kidneys", providing the two laws they have are heavily enforced. If people are more worried about the guards than the target's level, and the guards "have too much on their plate to pursue trivial brawls" but are shit-hot on murderers, then that encourages longer-running conflicts.

A lot of the time, players can want to avoid conflict or spam up levels because the consequences for losing get out of proportion. For example: One of my PCs was involved in a brawl outside Kingsmans. Him and a PC, "Legionnaire" got drunk, had an unarmed spar at Noble's Gate, and then starting mocking another PC. Legionnaire then gets a DM and punches the other guy, whose response was to chug haste, bark, blur, DF and counterattack with a scimitar.

The point of this story is that there'd be less of a feeling of "need to spam" if players would have their PCs bring fists to fistfights, knives to knifefights and guns to gunfights as it were, and the default assumption wasn't "gunfight". So IMO, IC efforts to relax penalties for unarmed assault (by making it not count towards Persistent Criminal Activity), and other ways to encourage fightfights and sabotage etc over Keg Of Potions Duels. Let's see those unarmed barbs who spend every Friday in the drunk tank. :D