EFUPW Forums

Folks,

EfU has been pretty amazing lately. There's been non-stop action for days, but there's also been a lot of unpleasantness. Not all of it is related to PvP or conflict. There's spite on the forums, vitriol in IRC, and people have even been piling shit on the DMs, for just about any small issue imaginable. Everybody just seems to be predisposed to bitterness. I don't know whether it's because of the way EfU is set up to be very conflict oriented, or if four years of playing has made the server as cliqueish as some people think. I'll say with certainty that it's not because of the Holiday Season, this was a growing trend for all of 2009.

Whatever the case may be, there is something patently ridiculous about having OOC enemies on EfU. Something I've seen all the time (and I've been guilty of it myself) is that people often approach me, looking to vent about this or that. I can't be certain but I suspect just about every player on EfU who comes to IRC knows what I'm talking about. "____ is such a fucking asshole," "____ is a griefer, he targets people OOC!" There's been plenty of discussion already about the cancer of rumor-mongering, though, and that's not what I want to address.

What I want to address is how bitter people are getting over EfU. I also want to address certain ideas people hold about what the server requires for success, or to have fun. What I'm going to say amounts to "It's a HOBBY," or, "RELAX," but that isn't enough. I didn't understand it when Howland said these things four years ago. I don't know if I've completely understood them yet, myself. So this thread is as much for me as it is for you.

Loot and Levels
There is, I've noticed, a common assumption on the nature of the server, that goes more or less like this:

Quote1. In order to have fun, or be successful, I have to be at least level 7.
2. In order to get level 7, I have to quest a lot.
3. In order to quest successfully, I must not have any bad luck whatsoever, or I will lose hours of work.

Until very recently, I more or less agreed with this sentiment. I have spent ages on the levelling treadmill, and somehow, the same thing has always happened. I would get too ambitious, or just run into some honest-to-god bad luck, and I would die, and the last week of playing would be out the window.

There is also an assumption, considerably more toxic, that goes like this:

Quote1. I always see the same people getting custom loot, and going on quests
2. I'm almost never one of those people, and if I am, it's just a random DM quest that anybody can turn up to.
3. Therefore, those people who get loot and quests are DM favorites, and I don't stand a chance.

Well... Yeah. They are DM favorites. Of course there's DM favoritism on EfU. How else would it be? Should every player get one piece of DM loot with exactly the same usefulness, once a month, and no more than that? That would be equality, in the sense that everybody is being treated exactly the same. It would also make EfU into World of Warcraft, in the sense that everybody will end up in exactly the same place if they play long enough. It may sound appealing, or a better way to run things. In some ways it is. For this server though, it would not be good in any way! It would ruin the very dynamic that makes EfU worthwhile - the thing that keeps everybody playing here; the very singular thing that every single player wants above all else from EfU - to be a Legend.

There is a process you can follow, to get loot. I've discovered it painstakingly, over my time playing here. Through observation, and personal experimentation, I've found the process that works. Here it is:
1.) Make a character with a distinct personality, goals, and opinions.

2.) From the moment you get in game, be proactive. Make sure everybody you meet, knows who you are, and what your goals are. Don't wring your hands, hoping somebody will talk to you. Stop people on the street, have a conversation. It doesn't have to be about questing. In fact, it shouldn't be about questing. Questing comes later. Questing is irrelevant to your character's success. Every conversation you have with a character you haven't met before is an opportunity to make a new ally, or a new enemy. Every ally you have is one more person who will recommend you when they need somebody else for a DM quest. (DM quests are where loot comes from.)

3.) Once you've made friends, hang out with them.

QuoteThis is what questing is for. It's a situation in which you can hang out with friends, and learn to trust eachother. If you're just meeting somebody for the first time when you both show up for a sending made by a guy neither of you know, here's what'll probably happen: You're not even going to talk during the quest, except for some generic grunts and (maybe) some coordination to overcome the challenges. You'll proceed through the bland quest, staring at your XP counter, and clicking your mouse, until one of two things happen: A) you leave the quest area with more XP than you had before, B) you died during the quest, and there was nobody around to even care.

4) Once you've gotten to know your friends, and you know what they're all about, work together for success. If you're always working together, you can share your resources. Make sure the right people are getting the equipment they need. Look out for them, and they'll look out for you.
If you have a steady quest group of people who are fun to hang out with, then XP starts to matter a little less. You are having fun, just hanging out with these people. When you die with friends around, the death isn't meaningless. It takes some of the bite out of that lost progress, because you're not thinking of it as "those hours of hard work." You'll think of it as "Easy come, easy go." When you're having fun, the XP comes faster and easier than it ever will if you try to bust through half a dozen quests with strangers. I promise.

5) Do things to pursue your goals. Be sure to involve new people sometimes. Go search the island for treasure, or patrol for orc warbands, or look for clues to finding ancient relics. Seek forbidden knowledge in the colony's ruins, or set up a toll in the inner-city ruins. Intimidate merchants into raising/lowering prices, or into paying protection money. Why wouldn't you? You have the people, and you have a reason to do it. And you know what I hear? I hear the DMs love to see players doing stuff like that.

Guys, you have to distinguish yourself, to get attention. It's the very most important part of EfU, and it starts the moment you set foot in the gameworld. Everything I said after number one comes naturally. These are the things everybody should be doing. Make it easy on yourself: take a few ranks of Charisma. For god's sake, don't play a mute/shy/antisocial/angsty character unless he still has a reason to talk to people.

Take it Easy

People spew endless garbage in EfU's IRC channel. People lie to, insult, and shit on eachother constantly. The jokes are crass, the links are random and generally worthless, and just about any conversation about stuff that happened In Game is either spoilerish or something that happened three years ago that you may or may not have been around for, and in which case the conversation is pretty much always the same.

So why should the stuff somebody says to/about you in #efu matter, in the slightest bit? Honestly, yes, I'd prefer it if trolling and insults weren't an issue in #efu at all. There are a few people who do it on purpose, hoping to get a rise out of others. The only way I can see that stopping though, is if it stops being fun. Ignore the shit. Laugh about it. If somebody says something mean about you, take it like you would any constructive criticism. With a grain of salt, and an open mind. Don't snap back at them. The very best response, if you've got to give one is probably "lol, w/e", or something similar.

Now, I said all that about IRC, and having been IRC's biggest retard for four years, and probably also its most talkative user, or very nearly so. I stand by what I've said here, in the light of recent times. Once upon a time, the dick jokes, trolling, and rampant pseudo-bigotry were hilarious and all in good fun. Whether I've gotten tired of them, or if they've just become more mean-spirited since then, or if people have just brought the art of trolling to a science, I can't really say for sure. Whatever the case, it's only half of the issue.

The other half is when In-character things cause out of character bitterness. There's no excuse for this. It should never happen. Nothing that happens in-game should ever make you mad enough that you feel compelled to despise the other player. Hate the character. Seek revenge in-character. I bet if you try it, you'll end up having more fun than you would, having an argument in IRC, where nobody ever wins.

I'd like to quote the man himself, his response when I pointed out how diseased EfU's been with OOC bitterness. It sums it all up pretty well.
Have to chill
need to chill

ok?

I agree with this post. and I have recieved DM loot before.

Also if people are so jealouse of people getting epic loot why not mug them? I mean really I am amazed how at the targus tourny people who in epic loot and are recorded do not end up robbed later......People who get DM loot often take risks or have proven awesome enough in pursuing prominence/goals.

On the money. Great post.

Quote[09:55] Rake in the pussayyy

Sternhund's wisdom aside, upon my return from my break I saw a fair bit of negative stuff.

Guess where it came from? PvP and DM Spice. These two things can either be welcomed, balanced, or avoided by PCs. Its up to you how to handle them.

You don't have to do anything on EFU you don't want to. Easily free to say "Fuck this, I'm out, you guys have fun", and walk away either IC or OOCly.

This is what ive been saying forever. Pursue your goals and include others DMs enjoy that. Even good PCS can include people in goals.

I'll give you yet another advise.
If you are on IRC discusing a new concept, don't let DrD in, ever.

I agree with all points made, except for one.

You do need level to be succesfull if your RP involves conflict. Otherwise any PC or NPC will kick your ass and it's game over.

While the above should be considered off-topic, or purposefully ironic; Kotenku has basically the essence of things right here. Every character I've ever played on this server that I enjoyed, reached that enjoyment through much the same process as the above. Take it to heart, read it, and then read it again. :P

Quote from: Drakill Tannan;159906I agree with all points made, except for one.

You do need level to be succesfull if your RP involves conflict. Otherwise any PC or NPC will kick your ass and it's game over.

In a manner of speaking, yeah, that's true. I can't really speak much about PvP, having not engaged in enough of it to have any authority on the matter.

I never actually said levels aren't important, though. They certainly are, there are just some misconceptions involved with levelling. 1), that you HAVE to be a certain level in order to have fun (different from winning) 2) that you have to powerquest to get there, and 3) that powerquesting leads to death.

These things are only true, when you're doing something wrong. At the risk of repeating everything I wrote already, if you want to have the levels to crush hard in PvP, then you should focus first on making some friends who you enjoy working with.

If you have those friends, then Level 7, and mechanical power will follow pretty naturally.

If you are playing a concept that has alot of conflict involved and you only start playing aggressive/seeking out PvP when you have reached L7+ then that's pretty much the best way to lose respectability for both yourself and your PC. Just throwing it out there.

I would argue that levels don't matter as much. They help, but if you have a PC who has good charisma and ideas, you can manipulate the gameworld well as a level 2-4. I currently have a PC who I log on occasionally that is Level 6 who garners a decent amount of attraction by PCs and DMs alike for his interesting ideas and stories, but the character probably sucks at PVE and PVP alike.

Engaging in conflict is healthy in this game. Even at lower levels, when you get your ass kicked. Thats your character cutting his teeth on adventuring and all that goes with it.

Good PvP'ers make it worth your while. Sometimes they'll chat it up with you before hand, or ask you a ridiculous task to avoid conflict, or if they win, they humiliate you or maim you or something. Death is usually (or IMO should be) at the very end, the climax of the conflict or the only logical resolution to it.

As far as loot goes, its hit or miss. Depends on how long you play per day (note I did NOT say how long you quested), how much you engage other players (sometimes characters will give you uber loot free or let you buy it), and if a DM is running some sort of event that day. All of this is happenstance and luck. We don't know everyones schedules, we've got players playing across nearly all 24 timezones, most of which play on three different continents so coordinating this so that 'everyone' can get in on the action becomes highly impractical.

So in short, everyone lets just relax focus on making a character live up to YOUR standards and don't get pissed off when you have setbacks, just look at it as a retcon of sorts, you get to try things over again.

Sticky this IMO.

Very good post and I think most are guilty of this in one way or another myself included.

As for levels and conflict. I will say that you can always run away from something you start if you're over your head level or number wise. Sometimes you won't make it and sometimes you will. Conflict doesn't always mean coming to blows!

A very good post, I would emphasize the idea that being part of a posse (faction, gang, group, cult, whatever...) is the key to both success and fun.

No comment about the circumstances of my 4am words of wisdom, but the sentiment is nice.

1. I always see the same people getting custom loot, and going on quests
2. I'm almost never one of those people, and if I am, it's just a random DM quest that anybody can turn up to.
3. Therefore, those people who get loot

I have played several chars that have not had any of this - not even random DM quest. (This is mainly due to timezone), I did not need to quest to where I got, I just was apart of something instead of trying to go solo and together we made it grew and started having an impact on the server (Mumed Sepret)

Also than, when I joined the Thayan Enclave - again little DM Interaction, I think once when I joined Red Star, yet we were making things happen everyday.

I would rather see the players - do most of the work with the DMs their to support THEM. I believe this for several reasons, the first being that this gives DMs alot less work to have to deal with creating plots (even though there are always ongoing DM plots, I am saying trying to get the DM to do the work that you could be doing, when YOU can have the impact with the DMS helping YOU out, instead of the other way around)

My timezone has alot to do with it, but normally if I can get a dm I ask kindly if they can oversee a plot or an event, because it is entirely PC driven I dont need to ask them in an OOC manner to please run me a quest, event for my faction.

I hope this makes sense to some and am eager to hear your replies.

I really like this post.

QuoteEvery ally you have is one more person who will recommend you when they need somebody else for a DM quest.

That is pretty much how you end up on most DM quests imo, unless your character is very prominent himself. Because of IC relationships most people (I like to believe) are more likely to bring you along to the Mystical Forest of Fairies than a random fullplate dwarf.

Also, I very much agree about IRC. Though not overly obvious, it certainly seems that the whole trolling concept carries a more malign intent these days.

This post sums up a lot of things i've thought about recently. However i 'll add that in terms of DM loot. Awesome pc's get rewarded. I've played pc's and i know many other have, in the past. That iare simply "given" awesome loot just because they are doing such a good thing.

Also in terms of levels, yes to win in major conflict you need some levels, however if your pc is clever, allies/plotting count for so much more than a few thousand xp.

I really couldn't agree more with the OP.

Hum...

good post, peace love and chill(i) beans.

Great post hits the nail on the head.  Just going back to the bit about pvp I completely agree with Caddies.  Tbh lower level pvp can be far more interesting due to the fact it doesn't involve a chug fest of potions.  You don't need DM attention to have fun, I've spent time on my stargazer just wandering with a few buddies

QuoteHow to Enjoy EfU

Three words:
Screaming Mental Gnomes.

Does it really matter how you play a PC as long as YOU are having fun?  If you are not looking for DM attention then it shouldn't matter to you to try and please them by doing 'x to get to y' instead of just being your PC.  These posts are silly because in the end only you know what is fun for you and no one can tell you.  Not everyone one will agree completely what is 'OMG pwnsauce RP'.

The IRC comment is LOL.  It's IRC, don't take it seriously.  People go there to goof around.

I disagree with everything said in this thread. Clearly, everybody on the entire server has access to a forum I don't know about where they talk about me behind my back. They judge my every action, exclude me from things, and there's nothing I can do about it. So, I'm going to keep playing with a completely negative attitude, all the time, and if they want me to be a constructive member of this server they're going to need to show some initiative.

lol no that wuld b silly

Coat, I see what you did here. Cool story, bro.

Dudes... Kotenku just pulled the most epic reverse troll I have ever seen in my life. Gratz man. The troll was so epic I couldn't even tell he was BSing until he said this:

QuoteOnce upon a time, the dick jokes, trolling, and rampant pseudo-bigotry were hilarious and all in good fun.

This stuff is always gonna be lulz. If someone cries, its because weakness is leaking out of their body.

Yeah lets keep necromancing this thread for a year shall we?

k

yes plz

k

k

Do you guys like my picture thing? I don't think it's as cool as TheImpossibleDream's but it looks better than Kotenku or lovethesuit's imo

STAY ON TOPIC SIR

I recently joined this forum and now I want to start the game this forum is offering. I haven't start it yet but I think soon I will go for it. I think I should first of all read and understand the forum by myself and then see where I can have the problems to share with you guys.