I've always had the feeling that EFUers lean left, though I know a couple of right wingers are out there. Even if you can't vote, because you're too young, or not an American or a criminal or whatever, I'm curious to see who our playerbase as a whole would elect if they could. For what its worth, most of you know that I pretty damn liberal and am 100% behind Obama.
Lets just avoid turning this into any kind of shouting match. We are all allowed to have differing opinions, and though we might disagree, lets be civil and hold love in our hearts for one another.
I'd be much more interested to see the outcome with four categories instead of two, being:
I'm an American, voting Obama
I'm an American, voting McCain
I'm not American, voting Obama
I'm not American, Voting McCain
Just a thought!
An excellent thought, Garem. I should have rocked it that way. That being said, lets see how this pans out. Maybe I'll post another in a few.
I vote neither, as i really don't care for US politics. Not that it doesn't impact me, but i can't impact it, so why the hells... you know? Best spend my thoughts on where it can make a difference.
BOB BARR
Libertarian
Elmer Fudd ftw
The Democans want my money to give to the poor.
The Republicrats want my money to give to the rich.
Both groups will waste my money as do all governments because they do not know how to manage their own bank account or run a successful business let alone the country's.
The key for me is to choose who will take less of my money. [sighs]
I am -not- an American, yet I'd vote for Obama.
I'm not old enough to vote either.
Go figure.
Ain't old enough to vote, so option three
I'm an American citizen, and I will be old enough for this ellection.
Obama!
(I'm what most people I know call "Obama Drama")
I don't really give a crap... when it comes down to it I'll choose whoever won't screw up the U.S. the most.
You undecided people are so jaded.
This is a subject that has been giving me something of a persistent stomach ache recently, and is one I am reluctant to broach. Usually I believe strongly in calm, reasonable debate in which an emphasis is on seeing both sides of the issue, trying to understand the other person's point of view, and often meeting somewhere in the middle. My instinct is almost always for compromise and for the idea that if anyone argues for something passionately, it is for good and reasonable reasons.
Once upon a time, I think there was room for serious and meaningful debate weighing the merits of the two American political parties. I think there's considerable value in a nation of people trying to decide between two candidates, one who may represent traditional "conservative values" (fiscal prudence, smaller size of government) and perhaps one who supports a government that invests more in infrastructure, social programs, etc. There's real substantive differences that reasonable people can have about the role of government and merits of different approaches.
These differences do not seem meaningful to me in today's current political climate. If you are a United States citizen, and if you care about your country, I would urge you in the strongest possible terms to become informed about what is going on in the world today.
I don't think John McCain is a monster, and there's a lot in his record that's deserves respect - but the idea of allowing another Republican president to be elected is just sickening to me.
I am no great partisan, and I would be all for a serious political party that actually did represent true conservative values (things like fiscal prudence, avoiding foreign entanglements, personal responsibility)... but those aspects of the Republican party, to my mind (and writing as someone who does spend a very considerable amount of time trying to stay informed from a wide variety of sources) has been totally corrupted. Hell, once upon a time I may even have BEEN a Republican - just not now.
The issues are too numerous to properly list - the Iraq War, the war in Afghanistan, the environment, social issues, the economy, military policy, domestic policy, the present housing/credit crisis, foreign policy, torture, the debt, and on and on. Each of those issues deserves considerable study and research to even begin to understand, and fully comprehend how absolutely and embarrassingly messed up things are right now.
I will be voting for Barack Obama for many reasons, but perhaps the number one reason is that I very much wish to cast my vote (diluted as it may be due to our absurd electoral college system) AGAINST the charade and ignominy that has been perpetrated by representatives of the Republican party.
Do I think Barack Obama is some kind of savior? No. The actual powers of a president to fix messes is limited pretty severely. He will probably disappoint a lot of his most fervent supporters as he struggles to address the huge problems he will have to face (if elected). However, I do think he's an extremely strong candidate, perhaps one of the most talented political leaders in the history of the US, an extraordinary man who will be studied in the history books. Is he perfect, ideal? No - sure, it'd be nice if he had more of a legislative record. I don't doubt I disagree with him on any number of different policies.
He is something of a Rorschach candidate in that I think people see in him what they WANT to see. For me, I see in him an extremely intelligent, competent compromiser with a level-head who will make reasonable, informed, adult decisions.
But regardless, we are in EXTREMELY perilous times. We can not afford to have irresponsible buffoons managing the government any more. We have absolutely got to get some serious, responsible and competent stewards to start moving this country back onto the right track. For now, and for me, the answer is very clear that Obama/Biden is vastly the preferred choice over McCain/Palin.
not a big fan of either but obama is a much better choice than mccain
libertarian r00ls though
Quote from: Lansert;89357I'm an American citizen, and I will be old enough for this ellection.
Obama!
(I'm what most people I know call "Obama Drama")
Hmmmm, well I'm sure many of you got the impression that I had not given much thought into my vote. The truth is that it only looked that way. I have thought it over a long time and Obama really is who I think our next president should be. (not going into detail why)
I take my right to vote seriously, even when I talk about it to strangers online I don't seem that way. Because I know that there are many nations that do not allow their people to vote, or only certain people, or say their people vote but if they vote against the current "leader" they will suffer. (And The United States has done all of that before, some people have no idea how good they have it)
So do not let my exclamation point fool you into thinking I am overly excited and as such not thinking clearly.
Also...
When Howland speaks you get the impression of a 35 in wisdom.
I voted for Obama in the primaries and I am voting for him again in November.
I do my best to stay informed on politics and current events. I have also voted in every local, state and national election that I could vote in since I've turned eighteen. I'm proud to say that I am not responsible for voting for Bush. :p
Palin is hot like the flames of a thousand burning suns.
I would it that.
I'm pretty much with Howl, and coming from one of the most liberal cities in the world, it's awesome to see Obama posters everywhere. I hear back at my hometown there are lots of "Obama Bin Biden" and "NObama" posters everywhere, but honestly I'm not sure how anyone can vote for Sarah Palin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwSbPxRZ3CI), who could be one 72 year old's heartbeat away from the Presidency.
If the Republicans didn't empathize with the values of the religious right so much, and if they put up competent candidates, I would put them in serious consideration. Though, frankly, I think they're current campaign is a joke, and I'd like to hear why anyone is voting Republican, because I'm sure they must be misinformed on something.
It's a fascinating thing to sit and watch from over the pond! So much more grandeur that we display in our little country. Excuse my ignorance but when it the big vote day?
November 4th.
I am English so can't vote... but if i could it would be Obama.
He isn't perfect (in fact is far from it) but better than what is offered from McCain/Palin. Before Palin was announced i wasn't so sure but a couple of things scare me greatly about McCain/Palin
- Sarah Palin believes Planet Earth is 4000 years old and humans were around at the same time as dinosaurs.
- Sarah Palin does not agree with abortion even in cases of rape and incest.
- Sarah Palin has had a passport for 18 months
Sorry to get serious, but McCain has had 4 reported heart problems in his life and is 72 years old. He may well die before he 76th birthday and we would have Sarah Palin as the leader of the Free World. Honestly that terrifies me.
I live in an incredibly red district in a swing state that is currently littered by those obnoxious "nObama" signs for a great many blocks. They are ridiculous.
I am going to be voting for Obama, personally.
QuoteSorry to get serious, but McCain has had 4 reported heart problems in his life and is 72 years old. He may well die before he 76th birthday and we would have Sarah Palin as the leader of the Free World. Honestly that terrifies me.
Actually, he's had cancer 4 times. Not sure if that's any better?
Anyway, a lot of what I am seeing is positive feelings for the change Obama offers. I think this is a trend with youths around the world because our world has changed. Just imagine the kinds of things we grew up with compared to our parents. We know that the same old ways of doing things are no longer going to hack it. The people holding onto the past are those that are destroying the future. The last half of the 20th centurt brought about the biggest explosion of scientific thought in human history. It opened up a big can of worms and the old religon vs. science or left vs right mentality that has been the crux of America since its founding, is no longer contected to our lives. We have big issues that we will only solve by working together. We are a new generation for a new world. We have a new way of thinking about things, and new approaches to life on this globalized planet.
Obama inspires me personally, and reminds me of the potential of not just America, but Americans. I personally am willing to work for a man like him, because I know he is working for me. On sheer policy, I agree with him on the issues and I guess that's what has always made me a liberal. I want healthcare, I want a cleaner environment, alternative energies and to eliminate our dependence on foriegn oil. I wanted them 8 years ago. In fact, I've wanted them my whole life. I don't trust that the other side even cares about the things I do (honestly, a lot of them -are- the oil companies to begin with). When it comes down to it, they don't care about me at all, and point to the failed idea that poor and working class people should help themselves.
Shit man, I help myself everyday, by going to work where they don't give me benefits (while the executives I work for get 7 figure salaries), I help myself by paying rent to my ghetto apartment and buying a meal a day cause i can't afford any more then that after 60k worth of student debts. I'm not looking for a handout, exactly, just someone who understands that life is tough when you are where I am. Life is tough for all the people I know. It used to be you got out of college, got a sweet job, got married and bought a house right away. People who didn't have these things by the time they were thirty were outcasts. What about our generation? Try to get yourself a loan for a home now, or a high paying job. Got a great idea for a bussiness, try to get Merill Lynch (Bank Of America) to fork you some start up cash. It isn't going to happen. If you're not like me and can personally afford to do these things, kudos, but at the moment I'm 25 years old and those things seem so far away, I'm no longer certain they'll ever happen. Deep down I feel that someday I will be successful. I want to be rich (more importantly, I want to live a rich life), but I hope that when I am, I never forget the kind of struggles I had to go through to get there, and how the working class is America.
I believe Obama really will work to bring back the realities of that American dream that has become a work of fiction. The dream that actually does allow people in my position to move up in the world instead of putting more and more barriers in place that keep people in thier born class. Whether sucessful or not, I'd rather have someone who is working for me then someone who is working for the fat cats. When my president is working for me, it inspires me to work for my country. It reminds me that we own the government, that they are us and through the government people like me have a say in the direction of the world.
Yes, cancer not heart problems. My mistake.
There are many more positive feelings about Obama out here in Brazil, at least, than about McCain. I'm not sure if he'll make any difference in the whole, but it seems people prefer a candidate who might cause less disgrace and political/economical(not not mention humanitary) disasters, rather than the one they imediately associate with the one who did cause that many disasters.
I'd vote Obama if I were there, as the less of the two evils that he is.
I like to consider myself an independent, though my values fall in line most often with Democrats. On the one hand, I believe in less Federal government (local and state should have more impact on their communities,) but also believe strongly in programs aimed at helping the less priveleged and in regulating corporations to prevent corrupt practices. During the primaries, I was rooting for McCain to win the Republican ticket, and Hillary to win the Democratic. At that time, I would've been happy to vote for either. I was slightly sad Hillary didn't make it.
Now, however, I have seen McCain turn his back on all the qualities that made him a desirable candidate, and take on the mantle of the party that brought us Bush. I am sorely disappointed in him, and his choice of Palin as V.P. is scary. I like Obama, however I would've preferred to see someone a bit more "proven". I believe Joe Biden is actually more suitable as President, and would've like to have seen the ticket reversed. I do believe Obama will be a good president, and I'll be voting for him come November.
Quote from: PanamaLane;89962Try to get yourself a loan for a home now, or a high paying job. Got a great idea for a bussiness, try to get Merill Lynch (Bank Of America) to fork you some start up cash. It isn't going to happen.
That's because for the last several decades the Liberal Democrat controlled congresses have forced banks, under penalty of law, to grant loans to people who could not afford to pay them back, leading to the collapses of the housing and financial markets.
Quote from: PanamaLane;89962I want to be rich
Quote from: PanamaLane;89962I'd rather have someone who is working for me then someone who is working for the fat cats.
How can you be a fat cat if you put your trust in someone who is working against it?
Quote from: YaltaSarah Palin has had a passport for 18 months
What does this have to do with anything? Somebody who hasn't done much foreign travel can't be a politician? The only reason she probably got it is because up until 18 months ago, Americans were able to freely travel back and forth through Canada without a passport.
Barr '08
I find it almost amusing that the #1 banner old school GOP supporters will put up is that they are for "a smaller government". Sure, they're not too fond of social programs. They believe in a free, unregulated market (unless current polls show sticking up for a model that is causing the subprime mortgage crisis will lose you a few million votes). These things, in turn, allow them to make tax cuts a major part of any campaign they're in. Less spending means less taxation, right?
Except, I don't see how a party that is so in with all sorts of powerful interest lobbies could ever put forth that they're 'for less government'. Sure, the
government might be smaller, but the private initiative will take over where government leaves off, and then decisions that rested in the hands of elected officials (no matter how contrived the selection process, they were elected!) now pass on to the hands of the Board of Directors of some obscure major holding with offices God-knows-where and meetings God-knows-when. Republicans always talk about how they'd like to diminish the role of government in the lives of people, but under Capitalism, to do so is to remove the only tool the small and poor may have (in an ideal situation, of course) to mitigate the inherent flaws and injustices of a Capitalist economy. To downsize government in favor of 'economic freedoms' is to allow the big fish to hunt the little ones with complete disregard for any notion of fairness and justice.
QuoteQuoteQuote: Squyrl
Originally Posted by PanamaLane View Post
Try to get yourself a loan for a home now, or a high paying job. Got a great idea for a bussiness, try to get Merill Lynch (Bank Of America) to fork you some start up cash. It isn't going to happen.
That's because for the last several decades the Liberal Democrat controlled congresses have forced banks, under penalty of law, to grant loans to people who could not afford to pay them back, leading to the collapses of the housing and financial markets.
Let's not forget the opposition of all those Conservative Republican-controlled congresses to any sort of government regulation on the financial system, which in turn led to the housing credit companies selling these debts (with interest, obviously) further down the road to investment banks and other types of financial institutions. This, and not 'years of Dems forcing the poor bankers to grant loans against their will' is what led to the current cascade-like crisis in America.
This all having been said, it certainly feels to me as though Obama is nothing more than a band-aid to cover a gaping, deep cut. All government can do in the lives of people, is to mitigate suffering, through social programs and steering the government as fairly as possible. But Obama isn't going to be the one to overcome the limitations of private property, the principle of, the true (and only material) cause of suffering in the Western World today. Like I said, it is my belief that the best he can hope to be is a woefully inappropriate band-aid to a gruesome and enormous gash, the blood from which is the lives of people everywhere - America and abroad.
I am not an American, but if I could vote in the US of A I would certainly be picking Obama as the much, much lesser of two evils.
QuoteLet's not forget the opposition of all those Conservative Republican-controlled congresses to any sort of government regulation on the financial system, which in turn led to the housing credit companies selling these debts (with interest, obviously) further down the road to investment banks and other types of financial institutions. This, and not 'years of Dems forcing the poor bankers to grant loans against their will' is what led to the current cascade-like crisis in America.
Where did all this debt come from? That's what Squyrl was saying. Limitations on financial institutions may have been a band-aid (to steal Kia's words!), but the damage was already done (because of too much government interference on banking, in my opinion, but that is somewhat debatable).
Honestly, the partisanship going on is abominable (here and nationally) regarding this financial "crisis". I refuse to blame one party or the other, because it was NOT caused by any one party as much as people may want to believe it (because, quite frankly, this couldn't have happened at a shittier time what with the elections and all). Obama and McCain and their respective parties will blame each other because that's what our politicians do to get elected.
Partisanship won't solve this problem. Hell, nothing may except maybe time.
I'm sorry if I sounded too partisan, it's just that I find myself very frustrated these days by the extent to which the Republican party and its leadership have deviated from true conservative values (which I definitely respect), and which makes it difficult for me to take them seriously as the necessary opposition until they succeed in reforming themselves.
Is McCain a reformer? I really don't see him as being one in any way. In fact his campaigning tactics and some of the fundamental, pandering decisions he's made on any number of issues really upset me as a voter... but that's going into more detail than I wish now.
If Ron Paul won the primary, that would be a sign for me that the Republican party was going back to its conservative values.
The big issues for me are:
- Fiscal sanity
- Responsible management of the economy
- Appropriate investment into infrastructure/new technologies/"building up the US" (and yes I think government has a role in that)
- Improving world stature/getting the hell out of Iraq
Squryl wins though for voting for a Libertarian candidate. I can certainly respect that, although perhaps I wouldn't advise it if you live in a swing state >_>
One thing I will definitely give McCain credit for (and one of the few things he actually bucks his party with) is his clear and very unqualified opposition to torture, which has been a terrible stain on the country.
Quote from: Howland;90214Squryl wins
Can we lock this thread now? :)
Obama, but McCain would be okay if he doesn't die.
Tom Mcclintock, SoCal, is the kind of fiscal conservative I would like see run for president.
It just ain't gonna happen.
go winning for voting libertarian
and after that lol sarah palin interview it is pretty intense to vote mccain at this point
McCain. Don't really like the man all that much, but the issues that matter to me most are abortion and gay marry-age, so if I weren't missing this election by like SIX MONTHS I'd go McCain.
P.S. Palin r hawt.
loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Obama. I'm quite convinced that McCain means what he says when he jokes about bombing Iran, and I'm against any candidate who would get us involved in another pointless war.
Of course, I'm also a social democrat, and Obama comes closer to the policies I want for the US - universal health care and education, more rights and protections for workers, a more diplomatic and less bellicose foreign policy, and the resolution of the energy crisis through alternative sources rather than more oil.
Ideally I'd like a candidate who could balance the budget too, and though it seems unlikely that Obama would, the republicans have an even worse record on fiscal responsibility given the astounding defecits produced by Reagan and Bush I & II. I'm not sure how anyone could call the republicans since Reagan "fiscal conservatives."
"fiscal conservative" and "tax and spend liberal" are, as far as I can tell, marketing ploys that have had no bearing on reality since Jimmy Carter. This is how people still believe that liberals are less fiscally responsible today, even after the liberal Clinton showed surpluses where the conservative Bush ran record deficits. In my lifetime, the right has always been pretty good at characterizing things as what they are not and making people believe it.
Yeah, the simplified difference between the parties - at least economically - seems to be "tax and spend" versus "borrow and spend." I don't see spending as a bad thing, as long as it's spent well, and I'd rather have the government behave responsibly and spend the money it has rather than continue to borrow our way into collapse. The problem is that the average American and the average American politician are concerned only with short-term consequences and ignore the debt that's being saddled on my generation in favor of immediate tax cuts during a time of massive outlays.
We are in a crisis of profligacy, in terms of both our personal and governmental spending, and to be honest I doubt that any politician has the capability or political will to remedy the situation. The last one who tried to address it was Carter, and he got voted out for it.
Obama for all the reasons stated...
For those who want to see fiscal consvertism like me, they ain't in Washington DC. Bush is too liberal for me and obviously not fiscally conservative. I think someone from either party could be a fiscal conservative and either be socially conservative or liberal.
For those who think that only Republicans pay out their "good friends", the Democrats are just as good at it. Diet coke vs diet pepsi
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080930/bs_ibd_ibd/20080930issues01
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ibd/20080930/bs_ibd_ibd/20080930issues
I just don't understand how someone can get excited by either party. Yes vote for one of the two lesser evils, but actually get excited, ... no. Politicians is Politicians = Fish is Fish
I say again Elmer Fudd, or perhaps none of the above.
Results from link provided by RIP below, ...
Bob Barr 69%
John McCain 64%
Barak Obama 38%
Reporters both in television and newspapers all have agendas and political parties they endorse. And no matter how often they say they have no agenda, they do. To make an educated vote you should know each candidates political platform, where do they stand on the issues that concern you?
http://www.nationalplatforms.com/candidates/john_mccain.html
http://www.nationalplatforms.com/candidates/barack_obama.html
All the slur campaigns in the world mean nothing to what each of them will represent once they get in office.
Vote for the person that believes in the things you believe in, not the party they belong to.
I am a supporter of the Patrioc party.
[COLOR="Blue"]Take this quiz. [/COLOR] (//%22http://glassbooth.org/%22)
Me...
John McCain 76% similarity
Barack Obama 64% similarity
Ralph Nader 58% similarity
I don't care about a world gone mad on differing religious views, increasing encroachments upon civil rights, or the onset of another great economic depression.
For the love of God, just don't let The Gays marry!
And no damn abortions!!! They have to suffer like the rest of us before we kill 'em!
Republicans: Shep's Watch, Spellguard
Democrats: Rebels
It's clear who must win!
...
I think I play too much.
Kiaring pretty much nailed it for me.
I HOPE people are kidding when they see Gay Marriage as a reason to choose one candidate over another. Honestly, whether you're for or against, isolated bigotry is a more important issue than healthcare, the economy and world peace???
The people here are certainly kidding. (One can only hope)
The people here (//%22http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church%22) are certainly not.
I will probably vote for Obama, but I'm not 100% sure yet. I usually lean more conservative, but I don't tie myself to any party. Last election I voted Badnarik because I hated both major candidates. This time, I like both candidates, but the Republican party as a whole has been trying too hard to justify what went on under Bush, and if they're going to keep following the trends that arose during his terms, I can't support them, and therefore can't vote for McCain. A recession also seems like a good time for liberal spending. If the economy wasn't tanking, I might be more likely to vote for McCain.
Mothma High Councilor '08.
I'm going to vote for Obama. Socially I'm pretty liberal and really don't see what difference it makes if we call it a civil union or marriage...I mean they're going to hell either way right? I'm totally in favor of social programs that help the poor and really think our country should use it's affluence more effectively.. We can cough up 700 bil to keep some banks afloat, but we can't afford to provide health care for everyone? Sad. It also cracks me up how much screaming people do about socialism....what a terrible concept taking care of your countrymen.
I do have the say that I am extremely disappointed in John McCain and feel that he needs a stern talking to after the way he's behaved during this campaign. Seriously...trying to make the case that a US senator is unpatriotic in way uncool...even if you are doing it by proxy (for the most part). I just don't understand how the 2000 McCain turned into the 2008 McCain.
Given the general feelings on these boards, not being an american myself, I think you'd have to be pretty brave (or crazy) to indicate in [this] poll that you will vote "Republican", and even more brave to just post a reason why and identify yourself. If you want to keep playing here, that is.
Quote from: SnottySnitch;91957Given the general feelings on these boards, not being an american myself, I think you'd have to be pretty brave (or crazy) to indicate in [this] poll that you will vote "Republican", and even more brave to just post a reason why and identify yourself. If you want to keep playing here, that is.
I seriously doubt anybody would be attacked for their political beliefs here.
Quote from: SnottySnitch;91957Given the general feelings on these boards, not being an american myself, I think you'd have to be pretty brave (or crazy) to indicate in [this] poll that you will vote "Republican", and even more brave to just post a reason why and identify yourself. If you want to keep playing here, that is.
Anyone who is going to ostracize another member of this community for their free exercise of association, thought, and choice to side with one or neither of the major American political parties has forgotten something important about what it means to be an American. I honestly don't think there is anyone here who thinks like that. This is a pretty enlightened crowd, and while minority viewpoints may not prevail in a vote or on a particular issue, they are absolutely tolerated and accepted within the group.
Quote from: I can has fun?;92067This is a pretty enlightened crowd, and while minority viewpoints may not prevail in a vote or on a particular issue, they are absolutely tolerated and accepted within the group.
Says YOU! Die, heretic! :twisted:
Quote from: JackOfSwords;92069Says YOU! Die, heretic! :twisted:
Mr Johan just told me to come in here and say that there was trouble at the mill, that's all. I didn't expect a kind of Spanish Inquisition.
Nobody expects a Spanish Inquisition!
Vote for Palin! (//%22http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf1y9s73Nos&e%22)
Obama for me. Not much to add that hasn't been said. Except, personally I would like the leader of the free world to be someone well educated and intelligent.
Let's have a look at some academic records:
Obama:
Occidental College - two years.
Columbia University - B.A. political science with a specialization in international relations.
Harvard - Juris Doctor (J.D.) magna cum laude
Biden:
University of Delaware - B.A. in history and B.A. in political science.
Syracuse University College of Law - Juris Doctor (J.D.)
McCain:
United States Naval Academy - class rank 893 out of 898.
Palin:
Hawaii Pacific University - 1 semester
North Idaho College - 2 semesters - general study
University of Idaho - 2 semesters - journalism
Matanuska-Susitna College - 1 semester
University of Idaho - 3 semesters - B.A. in journalism
Now, obviously degrees are not everything, and going to college etc. does not necessarily make you smarter than someone who doesn't; however, I think there is still something to be said here. This is the leader of the free world.
Quote from: Squyrl;90050That's because for the last several decades the Liberal Democrat controlled congresses have forced banks, under penalty of law, to grant loans to people who could not afford to pay them back, leading to the collapses of the housing and financial markets.
How can you be a fat cat if you put your trust in someone who is working against it?
Barr '08
First off, I'm not going to say that the democrats didn't have a hand in this mess. However, for 6 years between 2000-2006 republicans had a majority in the senate, the house, the presidency (and arguably even in the supreme court). Seeing as this is where most of the problems began in the housing market, and nothing was done other then further deregulation, I think you have to lay more blame on them then the democrats.
As for wanting to be rich, I think there is a difference between wanting enough to one day buy a home, a car, be your own boss and 20million dollar parachutes for being fired from a job you did poorly. I don't ever want to be a "fat cat" and I see people like that everywhere. Of course, wall street is my main street. It bugs me a bit that in these elections both candidates seem to shrug off everyone that lives in a city as somehow less important or real, but especially the republican party. I'm getting off topic though.
I think that Biden actually did make a good point that became a republican attack. If you're wealthly right now, it is patriotic to give back to the country that allowed you to earn that wealth, especially when so many of the people you rely on day to day, the people who sell you your coffee or fix your car are really suffering right now. I'm the one person I know in my life that loves paying taxes. Sometimes I disagree with where they go, quite often actually, but thats not really my decision, its -our- decision made in the form of government representation. The government is our voice. And I'm happy to give back to the country that allowed me that voice. Especially when it goes toward schools, and green technologies and helping the suffering in our own country and abroad, which I think we'll get in an Obama administration.
Quote from: Squyrl;90050That's because for the last several decades the Liberal Democrat controlled congresses have forced banks, under penalty of law, to grant loans to people who could not afford to pay them back, leading to the collapses of the housing and financial markets.
How can you be a fat cat if you put your trust in someone who is working against it?
Barr '08
First off, I'm not going to say that the democrats didn't have a hand in this mess. However, for 6 years between 2000-2006 republicans had a majority in the senate, the house, the presidency (and arguably even in the supreme court). Seeing as this is where most of the problems began in the housing market, and nothing was done other then further deregulation, I think you have to lay more blame on them then the democrats.
As for wanting to be rich, I think there is a difference between wanting enough to one day buy a home, a car, be your own boss and 20million dollar parachutes for being fired from a job you did poorly. I don't ever want to be a "fat cat" and I see people like that everywhere. Of course, wall street is my main street. It bugs me a bit that in these elections both candidates seem to shrug off everyone that lives in a city as somehow less American, but especially the republican party. I'm getting off topic though.
I think that Biden actually did make a good point that became a republican attack. If you're wealthly right now, it is patriotic to give back to the country that allowed you to earn that wealth, especially when so many of the people you rely on day to day, the people who sell you your coffee or fix your car are really suffering right now. Of course, I'm the one person I know in my life that loves paying taxes. Sometimes I disagree with where they go, quite often actually, but thats not really my decision, its -our- decision made in the form of government representation. The government is our voice. And I'm happy to give back to the country that allowed me that voice. Especially when it goes toward schools, and green technologies and helping the suffering in our own country and abroad, which I think we'll get in an Obama administration.
For the most part I would have to agree with Howl's original post. If the Republican party actually did anything it claims to stand for (particularly fiscal responsibility), and hadn't spent the last 8 years gay-bashing, bullying the rest of the world, and running the middle-class into the ground, I would vote for them.
I voted Ron Paul for the Republican nomination, as he was the only candidate that makes sense AND has the experience to back it up. Unfortunately, I will be voting for Obama as Sarah Palin scares the shit out of me. I bet she's a demon in the sack, though. :P
I will be voting for Obama. The social sciences have left me with a particularly prickly case of white guilt, and I will feel like imperialist scum if I do not vote for Change.
I am a US Marine and I will be voting for McCain Palin in the next election for several reasons which I am sure will be unpopular around here due to the high amount of democrats/liberals...which is fine by me really your opinions are for you to decide and your life is lived the way you choose to live it. I believe that there are problems with both parties and I really believe in being economically conservative which neither really represents, heh both really are bringing us more toward socialism. I guess what really scares me is that if Obama is elected then the Democrats will run the country from the white house all the way to the house and the senate and I think there always should be a balance with a nice veto pen to make sure nothing gets too crazy, lol. John McCain is really a hold my nose and vote kind of vote because I would honestly rather vote for the corpse of Reagan or FDR than either of the candidates right now. I think Reagan and FDR had more leadership abilities in their little fingers than John McCain and Obama could ever hope to have in their entire careers I mean look at their histories. Obama and McCain are both flip floppers and they both pass so much pork through the Senate it is rediculous. Heh I really just kinda rambled on there and went off from what I was trying to say. I think this election is really unwinable(for me) though because whoever I vote for I will not feel that I am serving a man I respect enough to give my life in combat for and Its for damn sure that neither is Bush lmao. But hey...its my job and I love this country too much not to do whatever I can to serve it and protect the freedoms that come at such a risk.
Btw I am one of the Marines who feels that we belong in the Sudan helping the people who really need it. No matter who is voted into office I will give them the respect they deserve as the president of the United States and serve them as I would anyone before them...I will just be less proud of it ;).
(Oh and btw if you live in SoCal near Pendleton send me a tell I'm at MCT right now and it sucks =P)
I'm voting for joe the plumber!
How are you voting for FDR if you vote Republican? FDR was a democrat.
I have already submitted by ballot for Obama/Biden. I feel that the most important issue the president needs to face is the World. He has advisors for each catagory-- I cannot expect a single man to have all, or any, of the answers to the major problems of our time. However, I feel Obama is a better figurehead for America. He is a better public speaker. He inspires all who listen to him, even if briefly before they realize they disagree with his words. He is a true charismatic leader, which is what we need right now. If you have never seen him, a good example is to listen to his DNC speech ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ato7BtisXzE ). I believe that McCain was a good man, but he has surrounded himself with the same old shady advisors that advised Bush. I cannot trust a campaign that resorts to smear and fear tactics during the worst economic crisis of our time. I cannot trust a campaign that incites its supporters to call for Obama's death, and divide America rather than bring it together, which will not lead to growth when Obama is elected president in 16 days. I cannot trust a campaign that has 100% negative ads about Obama, attempting to feebly link him to one organization or another by weak association. I cannot trust a campaign that has a VP so ineloquent and feeble that Joe the Plumber took more interviews than her in his claim to fame.
Quote from: Kiaring;91736The people here are certainly kidding. (One can only hope)
The people here (//%22http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westboro_Baptist_Church%22) are certainly not.
MY BRAIN HURTS BAD! ME NOT THINK WELL NOW!
Just....damn....I mean...really? THE HELL? I dropped like 7 IQ points because of that...thanks a lot jerk...
Joe the plumber, by the way, would get more back in taxes under Obama then McCain. It baffles me that this fact is glossed over, for the ordinary guy that has become a poster boy for republican policies, the democrates do him better. But hey, why use crazy things like figures and facts when we can resort to name calling?
One more week and this will all be behind us, Obama safely in the white house, getting things done.
TeufelHunden, with Obama as our president, you're more likely to be in Sudan then in Iraq. But expect to be in Afgahistan first. Keep up the good work, I'll likely be joining you soon. <_<