So, through lots of observation and comparing notes with associates of mine, I have realized that there is a distinct difference between a good player, and a great player. I would like to know what your opinions are on how a good player, might become a great player.
But first I must define what I believe to be a good player and a great player.
QuoteGood Player- Someone that when he logs in you think 'Oh it's him/her... who does she play again?' and you check the player list, see it, and say 'oh yeah I knew that'. The good player is capable of some truly great RP, but for one reason or another always seem stuck in supporting roles. The sidekick, the loyal servant behind his Master, the soldier. The good player is capable of making a difference, but often it is incredibly difficult for them and they often find themselves with overwhelming roadblocks, or have difficulty finding others to assist them.
Great player- Someone that when they log in you think 'Oh its (player), he plays (character)' without having to check the list. They almost always make a difference in a few short weeks, sometimes less. Whatever they play, the characters name becomes well known very quickly. People flock to them. They can make a brand new character and be in a DM quest that day. Their plans almost always progress, sometimes slow, sometimes very very quickly, but they always progress.
So... discuss. What is it that some of you great players out there do (dont be modest, you know who you are) that some of we good players can learn from to improve not only the quality of the server, but enhance our own playing experience?
i'm not a great player, but what should be known is to make a character have at least one major goal that involves people (if not more), and pursue it
the more obvious you make it that you're doing something involving/fun/proactive/whatever the more attention you're likely to draw, and the more likely you're going to have fun yourself, which should probably be the first major OOC goal, unless you're some sort of big dangerous dan
Include people. something i learnt from Talir.
Include people in stuff, bring new people into your factions. give them missions to do, be it "map the isle" or "stalk this pc so we can find when they are weak".
Imo a great player, includes as many people in their plots and pc's as possible.
I'm NOT a great player, not even sure if I'm a good player, but I have to say I actually enjoy playing the "side-kick" concepts. If I didn't have Vifur right now I'd look into the slave concept because it would be the altimate sidekick. But anyway...
I think part of the reason I have issues taking charge of a group is the fact that I don't know all the quests that well. Hell I went on the wolf quest ("Save teh cows!") by Johan's Mill for the first time just this past weekend. So I think that knowledge of what/which quest can be done based on average party level helps to make some of the great players great and should be added to the list of what helps to make a "great player".
There is a single, simple, rather undifficult process to make the leap from "Good" to "Great" player.
Involvement.
It requires some work without doubt, and requires proper inspiration, but all it takes to become a great player is that. This is a game. First and foremost If you can find a plot you love enough to pursue endlessly yourself, then you win. Its that easy. There are a lot of good players with personal and intricate plot ideas that they pursue. Some seek wealth, some seek glory, the works.
From that point on if you can involve other people into your plots, then you are a great player.
Its just that simple.
I'll just say I think persistence plays a big part. Even if you can find a goal that suits you and stick to it, it may take some time before the right kind of characters turn up to support, or oppose you.
If you do stick by an agenda or whatever your character is about for a long time though, your name will most likely become known and supporters/opposers of your cause should turn up.
Edit: I should mention, of course, you also have to promote your cause. Time won't do it for you, but with time more people should notice your efforts.
Great player = good player + makes others have fun too.
Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
A great player can make something out of nothing with the help of other players and little DM help. I think people sometimes forget that this is a storytelling (RP) server where you are trying to tell your story to others, not the DM's are trying to tell you a story, They are there just to help you along as you tell it.
The server is shaped by the "awesome" playerbase, not the DM's :)
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Quote from: ExileStrife;147417Purposely losing when it's a good moment to do so.
Something that is incredibly important to being a "great" player is this, and it is also key to getting those DM Quests you hear so much about:
Log in. And when I say log in, I mean log in for a lot of time. I don't mean dedicate 12 hours a day, but I do mean log in and find or make something to do. If you log in for 20 minute spurts, a DM won't have time to notice you, set something up and run it.
Like any other game, you get out of it what you put into it.
Quote from: Random_White_Guy;147396If you can find a plot you love enough to pursue endlessly yourself, then you win.
I can't stress this enough. Playing NWN on EfU:A is a creative effort. If you don't have a source of inspiration for yourself, you're never going to inspire others to follow your plot.
If I had to hand out some general advice, I'd say this:
read history. Learn about the Roman Senate. Learn what SPQR means. Find the names of all the colonial settlers of the New World, also known as America, and choose your favorite. Read up on the great pirates of the Caribbean islands.
Pretty much every DM who has ever logged in to this server is educated and will understand immediately what you're aiming at if you adopt some of the themes you find in history books. Trust me, you don't even have to scratch the surface to find enough inspiration for a thousand character concepts.
You should never feel the need to impress people to make an impact. You don't need to be a great player, or even a good player. You contribute to EfU with every character, big or small, and it's this wide variety of players and characters that makes the story of EfU flow so easily. Some are more heroic than others, and some make greater impacts on the setting. However, just by being yourself and playing the way you want to play, you're making EfU more awesome. Don't buy into the hype that says starting factions and swooning DMs makes you a better player; there's a correlation, but there is no causal connection.
Good Player does what is expected of a player.
Great Player beats your expectations.
Everyone's expectations vary :mrgreen: .
But yeah, what Strife said is Key. Not acting in an unexpected way (i.e. roleplay altruism) is usually fun to see.
People who go against all odds and succeed (of course they fail 70% of the time with their other chars, but the times where they succeed makes them great).
People who are interesting/entertaining to be around. (This is really a generational thing too... If you have a ten year difference in age and dont have the same cultural background, it hurts your chances.)
As well, unpredictability is key in it. Longterm characters often become less awesome because they become predictable, if they must remain interesting, they must remain unpredictable in some way.
I find this 'involving' other characters something like a gray area. What does this exactly mean? I've recently seen powerful evil priests publicly humiliating and beating up other PCs, overpowered min/max barbarians challenging every p/c for a spar, that they'd surely win, powerful PCs FDing other just for belonging to a rival faction, and all those seemed to be what I saw of prospective PCs that involve others. It seems to me that 'involving' other PCs is very closely related to PvP and high levels of power, be it related to builds, consumables, wealth, powerful allies, etc. However, it seems to me to be the trend, get powerful, impose your will toward others, get allies that way, 'backing ones words', involving others that way. I am not sure about the amount of fun one is bringing to others that way. Well, I'm just saying what I've seen lately, I'm not judging or accusing anyone, simply pointing out the current model of involving seems to be this one. And is not a particular way I would be willing or capable of doing either. Can anyone give me other examples and ways to involve others?
Alot of people equate great player to great in combat, and it's just not true. EFU is a hard combat server so pvp builds or combat builds just tend to last longer. However I have some seen some very good, weaker builds that rp to top quality.
Involving people is key, and that is not always beating them up. Laeris tries to invite others on her quests. Norik is always inviting some new face on a adventure into glorious battle. Nimawyn is always chatting with someone. Draig is always making a ridiculous sending. Just to name a few pcs I know. Evil pcs are just evil, they always exsist.
The key to being great is not being strong, popular, in my view the key is to have fun. If you do, and I see that fun in your character, that's someone great, and that's someone I want to adventure with.
It can easily seem like that but you need to look at it from another perspective. Most of those players are in pursuit of some grand goal that has been made known. This goal, the multiple goals, cause conflict because obviously some people will be opposed to them. Others will be drawn to them because the goal may be something to help their own character along in their personal goals as well.
Multiply this effect by however many characters are in game trying to achieve something big and you get a real big mess of conflict, pvp, plots and schemes that make for an all around interesting atmosphere.
You'll also find that most of these characters are playing their stats pretty well. Some have low wisdom and do rash things if they're forced to make quick decisions, some may just make dumb decisions or not hold leadership and charismatic skill. Even the big barbarians you say are min/max are typically playing their stats well.
As for the main post, being proactive towards goals is probably the most major thing I see that makes a difference. It involves people, creates a fun environment and opens up plots for everyone in one step. Pursue your goals and accept your deaths when they fail, that's the life of the game.
I also try to learn this 'involving magic' from pcs that are clearly application ones. Ones with PRCs or special races. In my understanding, those are supposed to be involving others, otherwise their apps wouldn't get passed. Haven't learned much so far. I guess I should just pay more attention, or be more willing to 'get involved'.
The makings of a great roleplayer.
To define what a great rolerplayer would be would obviously be different in the eyes of each individual. Here is what I would call someone who would be a great roleplayer.
Contribute – They must truly contribute to the community as a whole. This can be ways of both good and bad. Whether you are playing a true arch villain or a would be hero This however does not include PC’s that merely are ‘evil’ to be evil. A great villain is someone who, in my opinion, plots and plots, giving good guys a victory here and there and leads them down the wrong path and crushes their hopes and dreams. It is not a pc that causes random acts of violence and kills pc’s because they can merely because “I’m strong and I’m evil, now you die’
The reverse goes for ‘good’ guys whom instantly attack someone who is ‘evil’ merely because they have an alignment of ‘evil’ on their character sheet.
Metagaming – Great roleplayers rarely metagame. They know how to distinguish what they know from one character to the next and as such rarely would be ‘the son of a lost god” or “have the powers of invincibility.”
Emoting – Great roleplayers emote. To me, this is perhaps one of the most important parts of roleplay that many people seem rarely to care about. This single thing helps to set the move of the char as well as give a feeling to others about the figures mannerism’s, looks, attitude, life…its what brings depth to a character. Often times I feel that players tend to overlook this aspect and keeps things rather simple with a [nods] [coughs] [shakes head]. I always enjoy seeing things like, [*character* leans over and whispers into *character2’s* ear, letting their right hand come to rest on *character2’s* shoulder as his gaze flickers to the dwarf before the two of them.] Rather than [whispers while looking at the dwarf]. They say the same thing but the first example is far richer and more engaging.
Impact on the world – Great roleplayers will make an impact on the world in some fashion. This does not mean you need to be the leader of an army or a noble. This means that you have to, at least in some fashion, further the plot of the server. You could be the leader of the Colonial guard or a Lone ranger. The second option is obviously much harder and would require more dm intervention but it is still possible. As a lone character, ranger imparticular, you can accomplish this by doing, say, Hunting Orc’s solo, and taking out small raiding parties and scouting parties. This is where the boards are effective so that the DM’s are aware of what it is you are doing. Writing posts for individuals who like to solo and play loner characters is the best way for said character to get noticed by the dm’s when they are handling the much larger groups. However, never over exaggerate. “I killed 200 orcs over the past two days, they are all now dead and yet never hunted me down” In this event, expect to be hunted by those you kill. “Rumors have spread of an individual shrouded in a cloak the color of an oak tree that blends into the wild. This character has been seen as an ally to the Ziggurat by slaying the monsterous orc beasts and appears that the orc’s themselves now hunt the hunter.”
Be Open minded – What I mean by this is you have to have the ability to think on your feet. Things will never go completely as planned, however the great RPers out there will understand that this happens, roll with it and think of something more creative.
Involving others – I do not believe that this in and of itself makes a great roleplayer. I have seen a number of players involving others to do quests and raids and whatever else. Involving new players is great and very helpful but thus far, the best bouts of RP I have come across on this server, mind you I haven’t played here very long, have been speaking with/rping with individuals, not out hunting or questing.
Whew….thats a lot and I could keep going, but that are some of the more major points I look at.
Morva is an Elite player.
Quote from: "Daz"A great player can make something out of nothing with the help of other players and little DM help.
I agree and would even say little to no DM help. Otherwise, I admire players that RP with a passion that gives the character life, depth, and that keeps me on my toes. A great player challenges me to portray my own character in new ways or tough situations.
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I'm a teddy bear I guess, I'm pretty content with other players as long as they're not running around all 'how mine for fish!?' or whatever - trying is whats important to me, and I can overlook a great deal as long as folks make an effort.
Consequently, considering the above, my idea of a "great player" is one that can roll with the punches ic and still keep a smile up - willing to lose as gracefully as they win; Being able to laugh off personal or party failures, or looking at the bright side all score high marks with me.
There is always the matter of consideration, obviously in any character versus character setting players are going to end up doing horrible things to each others concepts - taking a moment and considering that the toon you're about to do away with is likely as developed as yours, with a personality and goals, and a influence on others rp enjoyment, before you act seems good form. I'm not saying full death should be overly avoided, but I'd probably say theres ample NPC's to make examples of and most of the time a long standing vendetta over a duelling scar left in a previous fight, and jazz like that have more of an impact over long standing rp than ganking someone and tossing them in the water.
To me a great player of a Villain? Can be villainous without standing on a heap of dead PC's, and much the same for the Heroic types as well. All matter of opinion of course :-D
@Tombanana: your comment about 'involving others' is somwhat true, but think of it this way:
If you 'involve others' to chat your life away around an inn table, or even to explore the isle, or simply to quest regularly, it doesn't actually add a story to the server (although it's 'involving', it's fun, it adds atmosphere, etc.).
EfU is an action/ pvp server, not a sim-city server, so in the end, RP and involvement should probably lead to conflict. 'Involving others' means bringing together a group that at some point will hostile another group. 'RP' as much as you like, but in the end, conflict is the key.
You can also log on and quest or chat or whatever suits you. It's just not those things that'll draw DM attention, if that's what you're after.
I think a good player can entertain himself while no DM is around, and a great player entertains himself and others while working towards an interesting story.
A great player involves multiple people even randomers, end of.
None of this entertains himself and friends crap, you can do that with a quest.
Great Thug pc has to be Pitbull Imo.. :( Rip ye crazy nutta.. but yes I am with Gippy on his comment! So it hath been spaken by the Great Chrijone!
ok I think the ones with constructive input have had their say, please lock this before the trolls and one-liners get it.