Alright, horses and mounts are disabled because of lag issues, which is fine. But Paladins are not blamed for lag, and they already have a hard time in EfU:A. I suggest to script alternative 'mounts' which could be simple summons with themes, celestial maybe, or specific by deity, which could work as animal companion or familiar. Even a human squire could be a good idea.
Aside from RP limitations of fighting with and for evil characters, Paladins really do not have it bad. They are Fighters on steroids and I've never seen anyone complain that fighters are weak.
That said, I like the suggestion, I just don't see it as necessary to make paladins somehow 'better'. If anything, the summon would be entirely RP in nature.
Link to this very same suggestion from a year ago, on the old forums. (http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/old_forums/viewtopic.php?t=42235)
I disagree that Paladins have a hard time at all. They really don't.
Well, well ... I take it back the 'hard time' thing then. Maybe I was wrong. Still, ignoring just that part, a class feature is being completely turned off, without even a replacement. Yeah, I get it, Paladins don't get familiars, and the 'summon mount' is just to illustrate that Paladins have mounts, not that they summon them out of the blue like Druids call their companions from thin air.
paladins easy mode bloodbath death undead tournament LOL
Quote from: derflaro;139182paladins easy mode bloodbath death undead tournament LOL
... hmm ... Eh?
How are paladins turned off? I mean, they got all those nice spells and knightly stuff. Mounts in general, none of us got mounts. Why should paladins suddenly have it?
Never said Paladins are turned off. I said a class feature is turned off. And if you read the actual suggestion, it does not say mount, it is a suggestion to replace it for something like a companion or squire. Mounts are definitely rightly disabled, since they generate a lot of OOC problems, such as lag and traveling stuff.
...and they never had them before, what, 1.69? anyway...
I don't really think that Paladins should be given anything else at the moment, however, if you truly believe that summon Mount should be used to represent something else for Paladins that pass level 5, then I would recommend something that represents advanced knightly or courtly training.
A small bonus to discipline, persuade, concentration, ride, etc.
If Blackguards were not so difficult to unlock on this server, I would suggest that Paladins be given a counterpart to their Fiendish or Undead Companion. However, since Blackguards are so difficult to attain, I don't see the need to parallel them to Paladins and would prefer that remain a unique class feature to them.
Just to illustrate that 'summon mount' feat that most folks seem stranger to, it is based on the P&P paladin ability of level 5, called 'Special Mount'. It is simply summoning a supernatural creature. The only thing that would have to change is that it would not be 'mountable'.
Follows the P&P feature from where summon mount was based on
- Special Mount (Sp): Upon reaching 5th level, a paladin gains the service of an unusually intelligent, strong, and loyal steed to serve her in her crusade against evil (see below). This mount is usually a heavy warhorse (for a Medium paladin) or a warpony (for a Small paladin).
- Once per day, as a full-round action, a paladin may magically call her mount from the celestial realms in which it resides. This ability is the equivalent of a spell of a level equal to one-third the paladin’s level. The mount immediately appears adjacent to the paladin and remains for 2 hours per paladin level; it may be dismissed at any time as a free action. The mount is the same creature each time it is summoned, though the paladin may release a particular mount from service.
- Each time the mount is called, it appears in full health, regardless of any damage it may have taken previously. The mount also appears wearing or carrying any gear it had when it was last dismissed. Calling a mount is a conjuration (calling) effect.
- Should the paladin’s mount die, it immediately disappears, leaving behind any equipment it was carrying. The paladin may not summon another mount for thirty days or until she gains a paladin level, whichever comes first, even if the mount is somehow returned from the dead. During this thirty-day period, the paladin takes a –1 penalty on attack and weapon damage rolls.
While it is understood what it entails, I believe that given the other class features of the Paladin, that a summoned companion is not appropriate in the EfU:A setting.
Mounts should be earned and gotten IG.
Quote from: Dr Dragon;139204Mounts should be earned and gotten IG.
That's what I came in here to say. I've seen PCs assemble and own animatrons, PCs with weapons that transform into golems, PCs with unique summons in addition to their normal ones, and other things so awesome I don't even want to spoil the surprise.
If you rock out with an awesome enough paladin, there's a good chance that some DM will be inspired to cook up something appropriate for your character.
Special stuff can be earned by anyone of any class, and that is not what I am talking about here, what you are saying is the same as something like rangers earn tracking IG, bards earning bard song IG, etc.
Maybe paladins could summon not a mount, but some kind of celestial ally? It'd make them a bit more holy.
Red Elient Mounts :P
Making the paladins even more powerful with a summon/animal companion?
Well maybe I'm not the right man to speak now considering what char I play but..
Paladin one of the most powerful of the classes you can pick here.
They get full base ab. And to add on that they get spells, even if there are few they are very powerful if you know when to pick what spells. They also can use divine wands without any UMD.
Not to mention they get Concentration AND Taunt.
Add a certain subrace to that and.. Well..
Ask Alyssara >_>
Not like animal companions are very strong. Maybe the panther.
But he is proposing more a EFU:A familiar: a worthless for combat, RP tool. (well familiars get buffing spells but take away that and they are all next to useless 80% of the time for combat purposes)
Which is why I argued very early on that Paladins don't really need more upgrades Akke. -.-
Well, it is not about making them more powerful actually. I am not suggesting a boost here. The 'ally' or 'squire' does not have to be powerful. Useful maybe. But could bring good stuff, as well as draw-backs (responsibilities). Oh well, don't ask me about details, I'm just suggesting a replacement for summon mount anyways ...
There will not be mounts in EfU:A (http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19567).
Turning the Summon Mount into a kind of skill boost (similar to the activated Domain Power feats) was the most interesting suggestion I've seen, but in light of the fact that paladins already get Smite Evil, Turn Undead, Remove Disease, and Detect Evil as activated abilities,
and they have a number of innate abilities like immunity to disease and fear,
and they have spells/divine item use/good skill access, mechanically the paladin is on-par with most EFUA classes.
Quote from: "ExileStrife in the [url=http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/old_forums/viewtopic.php?p=169942&sid=5d143d08d7e33d8db4af761445405449#169942old thread[/url]"]Seriously, why is there this sudden rally to give Paladins something they have in no-way ever even had prior to the patch as though we've taken away sometime essential to the class?
Some DMs have said that EFUA is "pretty well-balanced." When you've achieved something like that in a game where you occasionally run into some pretty hard limits, you've got something special. It isn't enough to think something would be interesting or cool - as much as I love the [COLOR="DeepSkyBlue"]Rule of Cool[/COLOR] (//%22http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RuleOfCool%22).
And yes, providing details and supporting arguments are the responsibility of people who think a suggestion is worth implementing or at least considering. At some point a suggestion thread should stop being an undirected brainstorm and start taking some kind of form that can be recognized by people who don't already like it. Personally, I think that transition should be made by the end of the first page.
Quote from: Blake the Boar;139228... I'm just suggesting a replacement for summon mount anyways ...
Quote from: Snoteye;139233There will not be mounts in EfU:A (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19567%22).
... ?
I think you miss the point snoteye. We're talking about a RP tool much like a familiar without the buffing spell. Think of a lantern archon casting "cure minor wounds" four times/day and hovering arround the paladin, or that would grant a +1 to will saves against mind affecting spells or something like that, something that made it worth having arround some of the time to give the paladin a sence of "awsome divine warrior" but influence combatwise so lowly it won't turn the tide of battle or even add to it more than RP.
Paladins don't get familiars (http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/old_forums/viewtopic.php?t=42235).