Quote from: HowlandAt character creation, erase the default Bioware text background. Do not put your background there but rather a basic description of what your character looks like.
Is there any way the DM’s can start enforcing this? With not just darkness but fog and rain and such it’s getting so sometimes I cant tell if I’m talking to a gnome or a Halfling and the player has either the generic description or has a completely blank one. Sorry to be the profile police but we should in the least have a ballpark height weight, and unless they are intentionally trying to hide it race and sex would be nice too. If the PC is intentionally trying to hide one of these facts then perhaps it should be stated in the general description “Always hooded or helmed.†Etc…
I mean it’s not like if you are not hooded or helmed that people cant tell what race you are but based on the players video cards and monitors you cant always tell a halfelf from a human or a gnome from a Halfling. Oh, and then there are the players that use an off portraits (
not of the correct race) for their PC and make it even more confusing. Is it a gnome or a Halfling? I don’t know because they have an elf picture and no description.
Names are enforced, why not descriptions?
Seconded.
Yes, we can. I'm pretty certain it's not desired, though. Plus, it would require a copy of every localized default description.
At least removal of the default one. That annoys the crap out of me. If someone doesn't feel like taking the time to write at least a short description, I feel less inclined to take the time to RP with them.
Quote from: Jayde Moon;87367At least removal of the default one. That annoys the crap out of me. If someone doesn't feel like taking the time to write at least a short description, I feel less inclined to take the time to RP with them.
Many new players don't write a description or leave the default one. It doesn't mean that they're not worth interacting with!
I would think that after the thought put into the character creation, that this would be one of the easier things to do.
I mean you don't have to write a novel...just a BASIC description.
Race
Sex
Eyes
Hair
Build
Noticible traits.
Done.....
My stupid video card does not pick up the little details, often armor is blacked out, or small features are blurred. Most of the time I can't tell Leathers from chain at a glance. Now let's add the weather effects. I could walk right past a "friend" and not know it with out hitting the tab button.
So I would LOVE if people would take the few seconds to put SOMETHING helpful in the description field.
Quote from: core;87651Many new players don't write a description or leave the default one. It doesn't mean that they're not worth interacting with!
Course that's true. And I didn't say I
wouldn't interact with them. I'm just less
inclined to. IC the way I play it is that there is nothing that stands out about the character, they're just an average, everyday schlub. Doesn't mean there can't be some other compelling reason to interact with them.
This isn't something we're in a position to enforce, but I agree it's definitely desirable. Where would be the best place to put a note reminding players of this?
[COLOR="Blue"]This[/COLOR] (//%22http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/old_forums/viewtopic.php?t=48%22), stickied to the ‘Information for new players’ forum perhaps?
In all capital letters. Personal pet peeve of mine.
"My goodness, he looks like nothing!"
I suppose my greatest pet peeve is when there's a LONG history or something that has nothing to do with what ought be there.
Eww. Wow, I'm such a snob!
I maintain my position nonetheless.
Hmm.
~PM for More~
... Seriously though, while descriptions are nice they are hardly worthy of a lot of hassle on the part of the DM, plus after the initial retardedness of opening it you know that you don't really have to look there again. I'd say just let people have as little information as they want in their profile, because their character's success will ultimately depend on how they are percieved by others. To be perfectly honest I wish the NWN player client let you edit your character's profile as you went instead of just setting the business in stone.
I saw one person that put...RP to find out.
I then IC said, "SO what do you look like?"
The player sent me a tell and asked what I meant. I explained that his descripton said to RP it out..so I was.
I don't think that player was happy with me. *shrugs* I just did what he said. How do you RP finding out what someone LOOKS like. I don't want their life history, or even their personality, just what they LOOK LIKE. should be easy enough.
Also:
Litheness
Buxomness
Amount of Fire visible in Eyes
Percentile of ability to move like Hunting Cat
New players often don't realize that's a place to put physical appearance, but rather think it's room for biography. They want people to "RP" to find out their character's history, not appearance.
A simple explanation is generally sufficient, and people should never IC'ly "RP finding out what they look like."
I promise that person was NOT a new player...
Having been one (recently) I would never do that to them.
I find this kind of annoying as well. It just adds more of a nice feel to the game. It doesn't have to be incredibly long, (Mine take up a paragraph, usually) but I feel it would add more realistic, like an experience, and not just an escape from RL.
Also,
big notice in OOC starting area?
What a character description does for me is gives me something to play off of. If they a tall or short, thin or heavy, attractive or fugly etc., is helpful. There was one recently that professed how very bad their PC smelled (kudos to the player for that), my dwarf walked around sniffing and asking “What in the hells is that smell?†after that PC walked past. This is good stuff to work with on a role-playing basis not just players wanting OOC info about somebody.
You see only death in their eyes.
I find it helpful to know how grizzled a given PC is.
Like a Grizzled Watchman or Grizzled Chosen hunter.
Grizzled Seeker, {Bearded}
How about a script that detects if the description is blank, Bioware standard, or contains the word RP in it? When the script detects these things, it fills up the space with a madlibs paragraph.
For example;
NAME is an ADJECTIVE RACIAL NOUN. HE/SHE has COLOR eyes and COLOR hair. HE/SHE can often be seen VERB-ing NOUNS, as this is the way HE/SHE serves HIS/HER god, DEITY.
Blaze Firestormer is a delicious human beast. He has hazel eyes and blonde hair. He can often be seen playing lutes, as this is the way he serves his god, Bane.
Ahahah, characters with blank descriptions and mismatching portraits can be great (seeing dwarf-lings a lot that way) but is it really that big a deal..?
I just always assume they're kinda lower-average looking in about every way imaginable and a rather dull person..
I heard on occasion some people just have a hard time writing up those things. I do too, really, forgetting lots of things that -should- go in there, so a guideline posted up somewhere would be a real good idea methinks.
But can you really ALWAYS tell what deity someone worships just by looking at them?
'cause I can think of situations where I would pretend to worship a divine entity different to the one I actually entered in the field..
So many ideas for entries to write in the research notes of Maximilian Cromwell (http://www.escapefromunderdark.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20259)...
Good lord, no wonder no one would RP with my first character.
But at any rate, while it may be slightly annoying seeing the above mentioned PC descriptions in the box, shame on you guys who avoid the PC all together. The person, most likely, is just new rather than lazy.
Always, always encourage new players.
I am kind of shocked to read that people disregard certain characters, simply due to their use of the stock description, or their lack of one altogether!
I don't think the quality of the description has much to do with the player's ability to roleplay, or weave a fanciful story of love, loss and woe.
Erm, nobody said that. The only thing that comes close is where I said that I'm disinclined, which I clarified by agreeing with Core's statement and further explaining what I meant by disinclined.
But here's some examples spelled out with how/why:
My PC is moving from Point A to Point B. As he/she does so, he/she will pass by many characters. My PC is on a mission, Point B is calling and there are yummy hot dogs and cotton candy waiting there. Therefore, my PC is not stopping to chat with anybody.
However, my PC passes someone with a description that I read as I pass and within it that says something notable, like they are 8 feet tall or they walk around absolutely naked. It doesn't have to be outrageous though, the point is there is something about the description that my PC can't help but notice and perhaps interact with, enough to make her stop, even though he/she is on a mission for Hot Dogs and Cotton Candy. For Fipya, noting that your PC has tribal tattoos or wears bone jewelry or otherwise describing some sort of druidic or natural path in the PC. If I had a cleric, noting another PC wearing the holy symbol of the Deity my cleric worships might stop her. If I were playing a young nobleman, noticing something noble-ey about your PC might get him to stop, or if there was something absolutely wretched my PC might comment.
If there is no description, then MY assumption is that there is nothing about your PC that stands out to my PC, hence there is nothing that says 'More interesting than Cotton Candy'.
However, if my PC were standing around and another PC that my PC knew brought your PC over to introduce, and your PC had no description, I would happily RP with you. If our PCs made a connection, then it wouldn't matter that you didn't have a description written in. My PC now has IC history with your PC and it would be OOC and bad RP on my part to ignore your PC simply because you had no description.
So, what I've tried to express above is two things:
One is to explain that nobody said they WON'T RP with you if you haven't put in your description (at least not in this thread).
The second is to show how having a description might be an RP trigger. Without a description, you don't have that particular RP trigger, and thus one less tool to help get your PC involved.
A lack of a description doesn't mean people are going to make a point of ignoring you. It is, however, a bit like having a low CHA score: you're going to get overlooked at first glance because there's nothing there to see at first glance.
I've actually considered giving a low CHA character a shittily insubstantial description for precisely that reason. Colorful descriptions encourage RP.
As for the people who post their entire life story, I don't bother to read those at all. If it's longer than 1 paragraph, chances are it's too long to read simultaneously to participating in RP. Since you rarely have an occassion to just stand around ready novel-length descriptions without engaging in RP, they just never get read.
Who gives a shit.
Everyone who posted in this thread gives a shit one way or the other, it seems.
Well, on the server I first played on we were encouraged not to use them because so many people would write metagamey paragraphs that tried to force RP on you (like "this person strikes fear in your heart" and "you find this woman strikingly beautiful"). Or would give background information that you really should be finding out through conversation.
So I got out of the habit and didn't know it mattered so much here (house rules are so crazy different everywhere..!) So please don't ignore me for that and I'll do better if I make another character. I promise.
Also.. On yet another server I play on, Arelith, they allow you to change your description later on. Is that something that could be possible to do here? After all your character goes through so many changes in their lifespan that what you initially wrote often doesn't apply any more five or ten or more levels later.
Aw, I'm sorry, shoulda made myself more clear..
If a description-less (or worse still, NWN-standard-descriptiony) character would approach me and talk to me or do something else that would draw my attention as normal, I would of course not blatantly ignore them! I can remember cases, admittedly only very few, where I have been deeply impressed by such players, but the thing is, and you can think of me as you want, this won't change, I feel LESS inclined, myself, to interact with those characters if I have a choice to talk to this other character who has a description that allows me to find an easier way to start with them like, say, "Whoah.. is that a fruit tree sticking out of your forehead..? Can I take a bite?" (I'm exagerating of course. You get the idea.)
Why is that? Well, in the past, I often times tried to show them the ropes or explain things as they're often times new, as it had been said before, just, it's not happened all that often that they actually appreciated this very much.. :<
Oh, but.. if you ever saw how a looot of established player almost literally pile on to a PC who is obviously new, smothering them with their helpful advices and little gifts, here, you'll understand why I'm not feeling guilty for not ALWAYS helping them with everything I can.
Plus there's one more thing. I have been doing this RP kinda thing for a pretty long while and I can still remember that the first time I around, the first thing I did was getting rid of that standard description here and using my own and I was like, uh.. well doesn't matter, I just strongly doubt it is all that hard to fill in something at least.
Forgive my snobbiness.. :3
(Oh but I guess it's still nice to have more "neutral" descriptions, as monet's examples show, like, WHYYY is you striking fear into my li'l heart, WHAT makes this woman so strikingly beautiful?)
One thing I would like to add to this discussion, is the suggestion that people put down their subrace or perhaps region of origin for humans. Particularly subrace since there is a big difference between wood elf and sun elf, for example.
As for where to add this info, what about a "new character checklist" at some point. I'm undecided whether it should be a journal entry or on the forums, maybe a journal entry with directions to the forum. The checklist can include a number of recommendations before you finally jump in, such as:
- did you pick a valid deity?
- do you have an acceptable name?
- did you write an adequate description?
etc.
with descriptions of what 'valid', 'acceptable', and 'adequate' refer too. Again, these would only be suggestions, and if put into the journal then they aren't really interfering with players (new or old) that just want to jump into the gameworld.
IMO, a character discription should be, in three short paragraphs,
Paragraph 1: A basic description of the body in general. (Keep your STR, CON, and CHA in mind)
Paragraph 2: Some more details, such as eye color, and occasionally some personality traits that are easy to notice
Paragraph 3: Some visual clues to their stats, for example, a strong body might be STR 16-18, while a 8 INT might be 'looks simple minded'
Granted, you may disagree, but I beleive it's a good idea to do so.
Quote from: erglion;88268- did you pick a valid deity?
- do you have an acceptable name?
- did you write an adequate description?
The differrence between the first one and the latter two. Is that currently the first one is the only one changable in game. Unless they script it in. Having an unacceptable name or description means completely rerolling the char.
I'm not really sure basic description matters, as it has a tendancy to change over time. Hairs grow long, delicate skins get torn apart, etc.
Most people end up wearing helms, anyways. Some even need disguises, and that little name floating over their head + a personnalized descriptions doesn't help.
Basically, what you see is what you get. As for "seeing the pain of years of suffering in one's eyes"... who'd look deep enough, you know?
Last, if if you can't tell the differencer between a gnome or a hin, or a male or a female, you'll get someone else either laughing or angry IC, and that's a good rp opportunity.
I refrained from taking part in this discussion but let me tell you now so you know.
We've all been talking about descriptions and complaining about those who don't have one, however, I complain about people who have to frigging long ones! (VALARON SUNNULLAR I SEE YOU) So moderation is something to be desired! Keep your bio one to three paragraphs or I won't read it. In fact, I often don't read Bios because I expect people to RP their charisma correctly and accordingly. If I see someone subservient, I am going to treat them like it. The only thing I tend to put in bios is a general outline of the characters and what people can make of his personality from a distance. Also, don't go to much into detail since these characters are often, living breathing personality representations from yourself. Your greedy nature, your stern nature, your chaotic evil alter ego, to your inner paladin. However, this -can- change. You can put in your bio saying, "His skin is flawless and without blemish," but then, I could walk along and ruin your pretty little skin.
A better way to put it would be, "His skin appears to be without flaw or blemish." This way you are giving the opportunity to change the description of your character.
To those who don't put in a bio, I can perhaps say that they didn't wish to go through the trouble of writing a descriptive biography and suddenly have it turned upside down, trust me, it has happened to me before. Sometimes people make long winded, arsed emotes to describe changes in character behavior that in the end, conflicts with the biography of the character. Biographic notes that cannot be seen such as, "She has no tongue," Doesn't mean your character knows, and if she indeed is speaking, you can assume something has changed to let her speak. Do not assume everything in your bio is fact.
If you are a well developed character and something dramatic has happened to your character, perhaps requesting a remake, or request a DM to change your biography would be in order. But hey, we're just playing a game!
... this really sort of auto-moderates itself.
If your descrip is too long, no-one reads it. Mr Emo with a 10-page description of the exquisite inlaid artwork on his froofy vest can cry himself to sleep that no-one loves him or reads his sappy poetry. No moderation is required. None. People just don't read it because there's simply no time to stop and read anything that long while you're RPing.
If you have no descrip, people don't bounce off of it for RP. This is your choice. You can be boring, there is nothing wrong with it. People will react to it naturally by having nothing to say to you unless you give them something to work with.
... and I'm amazed that this thread has lasted for 3 pages. A toast to thee, intarwebs. :)
Quote from: Luke Danger;88310IMO, a character discription should be, in three short paragraphs,
Paragraph 1: A basic description of the body in general. (Keep your STR, CON, and CHA in mind)
Paragraph 2: Some more details, such as eye color, and occasionally some personality traits that are easy to notice
Paragraph 3: Some visual clues to their stats, for example, a strong body might be STR 16-18, while a 8 INT might be 'looks simple minded'
Granted, you may disagree, but I beleive it's a good idea to do so.
Agree that sometimes bios can get too long. Breaking it down into parts can be helpful.
I start with stats. Height, weight, eye color. If that's all people want to read, it's right there at the top, three lines. Done. You could add race and sex, I suppose? Or body type/build, whatever. But there it is, first thing.
Then I start writing. And I might write one more paragraph, or I might write TEN more paragraphs.
The first paragraph is gonna have the more noticeable stuff, easy to see. Later paragraphs will have the stuff you'll notice the more you are looking. Kind of IC that way. The longer you spend reading my description, the longer your PC must be looking over my PC, the more information you're probably gleaning from the visual cues.
But yes, the quick and important stuff first. If I want to write a ten paragraph description, I don't expect ANYONE will read it all when they first meet my PC. They'll want the basics and ignore the rest. But I'll might put it there because PCs who get to really know my PC might find themselves with a bit more time to examine my PC closely.
Quote from: Caddies;88148Who gives a shit.
Seen so many people with a good description who were just as fine players as people with a standard or no description that I really don't care anymore.
Also, descriptions where you can tell someone spent a day on them using a thesaurus are less fun than no descriptions, especially when you need a dictionary to read them.
Chances are, when you start calling your ears auricles and your eyes oculars, you're describing too much.
if anything, i find people with default description more deserving of attention in some cases because chances are they won't act as predictably as everyone else and/or are a new player checking out the serv5r
Suggesting no description is better is a step backwards. If you don't like descriptions, or you disapprove of someone's writing style, stop reading.This is just as relevant as the DMs who spend their time adding little details to areas, or interesting descriptions to NPCs and objects. For all of the thoughtful people (and toolsetting DMs) who've described unique aspects of their characters image for those of us who do pay attention to these details, thank you.
He is exceedingly handsome (15+ charisma), yet at the same time, immensely frightening (roll will save to DC 20 to avoid wetting your pants).
I find descriptions are somewhat redundant. I, personally, never gain much from them. I honestly don't care if your chin is well squared, or if your eyes are a beautiful sapphire shade.
Chances are, if you're ugly, you're speaking with a lot of abbreviations and saying feck at every opportunity, and if you're pretty you're well spoken. Rule 1 of roleplaying looks-to-talks-ratio.
If you really care what they look like when they have no description, just blatantly walk up to them and say "What do you look like?"
Quote from: ZipChances are, if you're ugly, you're speaking with a lot of abbreviations and saying feck at every opportunity, and if you're pretty you're well spoken. Rule 1 of roleplaying looks-to-talks-ratio.
Pretty one dimensional view of the Charisma stat.
Once upon a time, they had it split into two scores, Charisma and Comeliness (Attractiveness). So you could have an 18 Cha and a 5 Comeliness or vice verrsa.
This could represent grizzled and scarred, gruff and blunt war veterans who had the ability to inspire bravery and lead troops to victory or supermodels who were uber snooty and came off as airheads.
Now we just have Cha, which a lot of people focus on mostly what it means for their 'looks'.
However, Cha is supposed to be an amalgamation of looks and personality. It is te OVERALL score of your 'impression'. I submit that you can have a 12 Cha and decide your PC is beautiful (15 Cha equivalent), but tactless and uncaring of others around them to the point where everyone no one really likes them, aside from the physical attractiveness (9 Cha acquivalent 'friendliness'/'leadership'). All balances out.
Point is that well mannered doesn't equal attractive and uncouth doesn't equal ugly.
When you throw in that a lot of people base how they speak on their intelligence scores as opposed to their charisma scores, this makes it more so.
Quote from: S SonataIf you really care what they look like when they have no description, just blatantly walk up to them and say "What do you look like?"
That's ridiculously OOC. How often do you need to walk up to anyone you pass by on the street to ask them what they look like?
I suppose you could send them a PM. And you know what, if it REALLY matters, you probably would. But it would only really matter if you were RPing with them and wanted to get things straight.
But if you don't have a reason to really want to know, then you probably aren't going to look any harder than clicking examine on them.
If they don't have a description that stands out and my PC doesn't have another reason to speak with them, then no RP will happen.
Back to square one.
This is still going on?
Wow.
If I thought it were worth the DMs time, I'd suggest altering the deity-setting script to a convo that pops up before you enter EfUA from the new character area, that gives you a little newbie-oriented heads up on RP servers, and maybe lets you choose a few things such as eye color, height, body type, age if you haven't actually set a description yet.
Edit: I mean, some RPers do pay attention to these details, and the more interaction with RPers we can get a new player, the more likely they'll enjoy themselves and stick around, right?
Just to throw it out there, I personally have gotten a lot of rp with my new character, just from writing -one- sentence about my character's physical appearance, and -one- sentence ( it's a long one, I'll admit ;))about a pendant she carries.
Granted, I could probably get the same effect if I just went everywhere emoting, *Pauses, taking a moment to shake her hair about in the wind and generally look smexy* or *One -again- pulls out her two sided pendant which features a golden heart on one side and the face of a beautiful red head on the other* But personally, I'd rather just toss that in my description instead of emoting it -every- -freaking- time. On the other hand, a person only needs to read/be told what you look like once generally, and then after that they have a mental image.
If you want people to get a nice little overview of what you look like, throw it in your description. If not, or if you're uncomfortable with writing, don't. I've never decided not to roleplay with someone over something as frivolous as a description, but on the other hand it provides a nice jumping in point.
Yeah LoC. It can make a great "conversation starter" if you have something unique in there. That's definitely better than just "brown eyes, fat," too, though I'm of the opinion that something is still better than nothing. :)
What we could do is add a fork that checks if the PC has a description and probe a question -- "Your PC has the default or your PC has a blank description, most players in this gameworld use the description information as a mean to understand what your character looks like. Blank descriptions could lead to mean mean elitists ignoring your character."
The last sentence aside, maybe this could be useful, but the deity check is there and there are still a lot of people walking around faithless or with a blank in their deity field.
Most of the time, these players are new and making a PC that they didn't put a lot of effort in just to learn the gameworld and see if it interests them. Talk about receiving a bad impression if everyone ignores you. I hope some players are talking to these PCs and trying to involve them still :(