It would be nice if there were some +1 damage ammo's sold at reasonable rates from certain npcs. Perhaps also some expensive variants of ranged weapons. I see there are plenty of "interesting" weapons and armors available from a variety of sources.
It would be preferred if this "ammunition" shop was incredibly "cheap" by the nwn standards, thusly nothing else should be bought or sold from this store.
It would be nice if the prices were scaled in such a way as you could get +1 damage ammo for say 25-50 gold per stack of 99 and +1d4 ammo for 250 gold per stack and perhaps even 1d6 damage for 500 gold per stack.
If this can't be done via the normal vendor system what about speaking to an NPC and selecting the stack type and damage bonus you want and paying the amount asked.
It would also be nice if some mobs dropped "Sealed Ancient Quiver" a "use" item that generates a stack of random arrows from all of the arrows that can drop on efu.
Anyway feel free to shoot this down! Puns ftw.
I'm in support of this, archers are nerfed enough by standard D&D as it is!
Aw, stop whining and just go and take a trip to Old Port and buy some special ammo off the trap shop, it's only 50k gold. Or those 15% chance of Sleep ammo types from the Dreamers. For 1000. :P
So, yeah. Agreeing. However, there IS ammo about with Wounding and +1d4 elemental dmg. Sadly it only drops on one, tough quest and is rather rare. I think stuff like that should be maybe 200 a stack, and also drop on 4-9 quests.
The sort of thing that you want to hoard for PVP or spice, not use as a matter of course.
I remember the blue mushroom inn used to sell +1 electricity dmg arrows, +1 fire dmg arrows....
I support the suggestion. But if implemented i ask people not to forghet about bullets/bolts as well as arrows.
If posible, i'd like to ask an arrow that could somehow pierce DR. I'm thinking, by replacing phisical damage with magical damage. But this might require scripting.
Off-topic: How exactly does wounding works? i belive in the OC it worked by dealing 1 damage each round, but last time i saw it it did more, can't remember how much though.
I don't agree with the 1d6 ones as, with various feats (rapid shot etc) and true strike/cats grace potions etc. you could kill someone easily, cheaply with 0% risk, from half way across a screen.
The +1 damage ones would be fine though. Maybe even the 1d4 for +1000 maybe.
Quote from: artfuldodger99;130850I don't agree with the 1d6 ones as, with various feats (rapid shot etc) and true strike/cats grace potions etc. you could kill someone easily, cheaply with 0% risk, from half way across a screen.
The +1 damage ones would be fine though. Maybe even the 1d4 for +1000 maybe.
Hi, my name's elemental shield, available from charges from plenty of loot items, potions, and also from spells.
I'm for the suggestion, but I really don't even see it making much of a difference
If people are regularly finding plenty of loot with charges of Elemental Shield then i have been missing out!
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Elemental_shield
Back on topic, 1d8 +1d6 from range is unbalanced imo. +1 or +2 seems plenty enough, if such a trader was implemented.
I think he means Insulation. And to spam that many TS pots would be ridiculous. I mean I could see it being nasty with TS/Called Shot (leg)/Rapidshot, but the only way to get around Blur halving the dmg would be using a specific shortbow against *some* playerraces, use that -AC Mighty longbow and hope for good rolls, or use a +1 AB crossbow that's rare and can't be rapidshot.
IMO, ranged PCs being scary as hell using rare or pricey ammo is like a melee PC being scary as hell using a Flame wep device and potions.
As I said, +1d4 ammo exists, but rare. Having it fairly expensive as a reserve bit of kit like melee PCs use Displacement potions seems the way to go IMO.
Ya I basically meant Endure Elements, Resist Elements, or Protection from Elements, who woulda thought they'd have one called Elemental Shield that does something entirely different from the other three... who thinks of these names?!:-P
Honestly I don't know why they didn't just make one first level spell and have it resist a certain amount of elemental damage per level of the caster
So no - no I have not been finding potions of Elemental Shield, although it wouldn't be too much worse than the hundreds of death armor potions I've seen in loot.
But back on topic, I'm still in support of this
atrfuldodger99: You mentiond ways to decrese AC and AB on the enemy, and incresing the AB of ranged weapon users. Your average respectable enemy has arround 50HP, assuming a fighter archer with weapon specialisation and a +2 mighty bow you would be doing about 8 damage per shot, if all three shots were to hit that makes 24 damage, so in two rounds you might kill it if you are lucky, but most times it will take 3 rounds to take down 1 enemy if all your attacks hit. 18 seconds is more than enough for it to reach you, and more likely than not, won't be alone.
Also take into account ranged weapons can't get the damage bonus from flame weapon nor magic weapon. And asides from arrow damage only mighty can increse the damage, but even then most archer PCs will not be able to add +2 or +3 to damage, not unbuffed. And no one wants to buff the archers.
I'd say, +1 arrows, +2 arrows and +1d4 arrows for sale at 50-60gp, 100-110gp and 250-300gp respectrively.
Because, 1k gold for +1d4 arrows!?
Is there a secret tequinique like alchemy or herbalism that allows you to spawn gold out of nowhere? Because people keep suggesting insane prices for everything.
It's not resoanble, +1d4 for 1000 gold makes 10 per arrow, assuming you would always roll 4 in the extra damage it would still be more than 2gp for each extra damage point dealt. -IF- it hits.
I might pay that price for +1d6 arrows with wounding damage.
Flame Weapon Scroll costs 100, lasts for 3 minutes. So, 3 minutes' worth of +1d4 Fire Damage arrows should by the same token cost 100 gold for 3 min worth multiplied up by a premium for being class unrestricted.
Assuming 3 attacks a round rapidshooting, that's 30 arrows a minute So, for a stack of 99 arrows with +1d4 Fire Damage, 250 gold seems good.
Doing the same maths with alch fire, you get 4 rounds of 1d4 Fire for 30 gold (and you can make it too, so even cheaper potentially). so cost per attack assuming a normal Fighter with 2 attacks is:
(30/4)/2=3.75
3.75*99 = 371
So, whatever you use to figure out how much to charge, 300 gold a stack seems about fair, as it's the only way to add extra damage to arrows. It should be in the cheaper end of the range if added due to the fact you can't have a buffbot do it and you have to pay for supplies. But, not too cheap, as there's no time limit on the flame. So, 300.
Set things up with buyable and droppable good ammo, and you've got ranged PCs being very useful, but paying to do so. The same as a melee PC buying potions and hoarding them off quests.
Add affordable bonus damage ammo to complement the new and useful bows that are turning up, and we'll see people actively wanting shooters along more.
Actually, since you put it that way egon, i'd say they should be cheaper, a level 3 flame weapon grants 1d4 + 3 fire damage to a weapon, effecively making it twice the effect that you descrived. Flame arrows would have only 1d4 damage without that +3. 250 i say.
Doesn't this discussion come up something like every two months or so?
Selfishly agrees with this, reserveing the right to disagree when i go back to melee character!
(+1 count, yay!)
Quote from: Oskar Maxon;130929Doesn't this discussion come up something like every two months or so?
Yeah, similar ideas, but a vendor for ammo's a new one, especially considering the rather unaffordable but existing Dreamer ammo.
Besides, it gives me an excuse to post maths at people. :D
Quote from: Oskar Maxon;130929Doesn't this discussion come up something like every two months or so?
LOL. Maybe we need a sticky listing the recurrent posts: archers, class balance, spell upgrades, death whining, rage quiting, how to stay alive, etc.
Quote from: Oskar Maxon;130929Doesn't this discussion come up something like every two months or so?
Maybe there is a reason for that?
Archers are incredibly powerful with a stock longbow and regular arrows. They do not need help.
I would, however, love to see more ranged weapons with non combat bonuses. Perhaps even very rare ones that give limited uses of Fire and Acid Arrow, or even once per day use.
Or even something as simple as a magic bow with infinite regular ammo. That is my one gripe with archers, having to carry obscene and impossible numbers of arrows to last a quest. I mean really... is 2-3k arrows -really- that feasible to carry?
Let's remake the entire ranged combat system.
First, we give crossbows the base damage of a greataxe and the crit multiplier of a scythe.
We then proceed to bump longbows to d10 and shortbows to d8, with x3 18-20 multipliers of course.
We give all successful ranged attacks a random chance at instant killing, and a universal slowing effect. Every now and then arrows may also mean stunning, blinding, dazing or a Fear effect if fired quickly.
We'll then proceed to spam threads of "Nerf ranged attackers" and "Why the hell are archers the only useful sort of characters"
All this QQ and overblown exaggerations over asking to be able to purchase ammo, wow, half of these responses don't even add anything constructive to the thread. Well done. Particularly LiS.
Quote from: FleetingHeart;131003Archers are incredibly powerful with a stock longbow and regular arrows. They do not need help.
I've tried to make archers and find out they are only usefull when you have 3-4 archers, in wich case 3-4 fighters are better most of the times.I've also seen other archer PCs in PvP who die without getting their opopnent to "injured". Wich means, if you are right, that i'm doing something wrong. Could you then please explain your reasosns?
No, really i want to make an archer, the bastardsword fighter is just not my style. Anyone help? Listen in silence? Fleeting Heart? Imposible Dream?
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;131019I've tried to make archers and find out they are only usefull when you have 3-4 archers, in wich case 3-4 fighters are better most of the times.I've also seen other archer PCs in PvP who die without getting their opopnent to "injured". Wich means, if you are right, that i'm doing something wrong. Could you then please explain your reasosns?
As it has been stated in probably every single one of the archer threads that no, an archer is not supposed to win in 1vs1 with a melee character.
Well no. That was not my point. But one thing is not be able to win, the other one is spend three tanglefoot bags, god-knows-how-many potions and only hit him for 15 damage before dieing.
Now i'm not asking for a single archer to win against a single meleer, but you'll agree it is acceptable that, after using several tanglefoot bags, items and potions, an archer should manage to get a meleer to "injured". In team PvP that would prove the archer usefull. But if it hits for 15 in 5 rounds (say, if the other team drank a blur potion) if you hit all times then you'll need 6 archers to have them being usefull. Unless that is, they are rogues wich is the only way to make a respectable archer.
But let's skip PvP, because as i understand the server is more about cooperative party questing than PvP, quests happen a lot, lot more than PvP (or maybe i just log on the wrong times when no one is in the mood for PvP) so it seems to me the primary concern should the balancing PvM, in wich, an archer is only usefull if you have 4 of them, or if it's a rogue fighting against something not-undead and non-construct.
In wich case, i'm still expecting either for someone to explain to me how can i have an archer that can deal enough damage to contribute to the fight with other things than RP, yet have enough AB to actually hit the enemies and be able to do something about a 5/+1 DR enemy, OR admit archers aren't worth using and support the suggestion of buffing them up.
I mean it, gimme a good archer build for EFU, i'll test it and if you're right you'll never see me in this kind of threads again. (i know you want to get rid of me, now you know how...)
I'm unlocking this thread just to address this.
QuoteI mean it, gimme a good archer build for EFU, i'll test it and if you're right you'll never see me in this kind of threads again. (i know you want to get rid of me, now you know how...)
It's not that anyone wants to get rid of you, but it is worth noting that there have been a lot of really unproductive, lengthily written suggestions written recently that don't seem to reflect the actual reality of the game we're playing (and have been playing) for two years. And sometimes the tone of these "suggestions" seem a lot more about trying to dictate how things
should be in the poster's opinion rather than trying to understand and adapt to how things are.
The bottom line is that NWN doesn't handle ranged combat very well, that we're not interested in seeing tons and tons of archers around, and that - as with all things that are a little more unusual and quirky - it should be done for the flavor and perhaps even the challenge rather than anything else. And, of course, as with everything if a ranged-focused PC is a spectacular character they may get spectacular DM loot that will go a long way towards making up for any supposed mechanical shortcomings.
But I'm going to answer your challenge, despite some misgivings I have. Because we do emphasize the RP dictating the build rather than the other way around.
QuoteHalfling Mega Rogue
Halfling, high dex, weapon focus sling, pure rogue, rapid shot/point blank shot feats.
You're like any other rogue, except better. With 3attacks/round at level 8 with likely the highest AB of virtually any other rogue type, you will do extremely high damage while flanking (easily done as a ranged PC, with less risk than melee). You also have stealth, rogue skills, trap abilities, etc. making your PC very formidable in the rogue niche of things.
QuoteWarrior Yeoman
Human (could also be elf) rogue3/fighter6. Weapon Spec Longbow, Improved Crit Longbow at level 9. Rapid shot to translate into relatively high damage to NPCs 3times/round (equivalent or better average damage to most sword/shield warrior types), as well as 2d6 sneaks while flanking. Fight in plate, damage as they approach, switch to sword-shield if you need to tank for some reason. Can even take Called Shot to disable/slow/weaken from a distance.
I could keep going but I want to wrap this up.
Other things to note:
Assassin death attack works with ranged weapon (fort save or paralysis when not in combat).
Undead, although crit/sneak immune, are often slow.
Divine Favor and Divine Might works with ranged weaponry.
I've seen Zen Archery used with success.
The Arcane Archer prestige class has the potential to be one of the more powerful PrCs available.
There are in fact a huge variety of custom ammunitions available throughout the game world.
And again...ranged combat is poorly handled in NWN due to AI and lag issues, etc. It is nice how it is: absolutely playable and powerful in the hands of a competent player, suitable for special rewards when the RP justifies it, but still rare so those who do choose this path can feel special.
Thanks Howland. I'll try this bulds and see how they turn out, and maybe make an archer at EFU:A once i do.
I'll just add as a note i've asked elsewere and i've been told is imposible to make a decent non-rogue archer with this limitations. And that would enjoy seeing more archers, even if they are meant to be weak.
But as i said.. no more me on this kinda threads again.
Buried beneath a Howland avalanche of polite facts.
Offtopic question but it's been bugging me.
What is a Yeoman?
There are some pretty wicked arrows being sold IG by NPCs.
Quote from: Sandstorm;131619There are some pretty wicked arrows being sold IG by NPCs.
Yes this shop appeared after the original post however!