I've been pondering how to put this. This is about the best I can do.
First, Caddies, you performed the role of the ravaging, bloodthirsty hunter excellently. You created a great horror that will keep the young children of Ymph fascinated for years.
Second, to every single one of you who regarded Cruloch as little more than a stray dog with rabies, I'm extraordinarily disappointed in you for belittling the awesome. And kudos to the L.L. crew that rallied and hunted Cruloch down without reducing him to a house pet with a pissing problem, but respecting the beast as a fearsome thing to be respected.
Let the villains be villains and let the heroes be heroes. I'm extraordinarily sick of every level four with a fresh pair of dirty chainmail they scavenged acting like Billy Badass, thus reducing the very quality of people who ARE Billy Badass. You're not helping the story or the roleplaying, the things that make this server great.
I understand the mentality of wanting to be the hero/villain. That's fine, and part of the story. But let everyone have a chance to enjoy the limelight. And this absolutely goes to the folks who've been around a long time, so don't be mistaken, as we like to pretend the story must constantly revolve around our PCs because, frankly, we're generally better players than those newer to the server.
lol?
People all want attention.
But Garem has a point.
I don't see the point in this post. If a level four character wants to be part of the action and it's IC for him to want to help those around him, let him run out and get killed in two rounds by a werewolf if he wants to. It's not as if character levels should influence a PC's IC actions anyhow(Although I know this is an idealization)
So you've came to the forums telling the new players not to be glory hogs, but at the same time that seems to be exactly what you're doing. You're telling others OOC to stand down for the sake of someone else's OOC ego.
If I am being overly callous or misunderstood the post because I lack some other information regarding this storyline then I apologize, but that's how I interpreted what you were saying and I found it rather selfish.
Billy bad ass shows he's billy bad ass, many people will try to be like billy bad ass, this is normal, but few people will actually BE billy bad ass. it seems silly to ask people not to try to pose as the people they dream to be one day. They might not be there yet, but they may get there eventually.
Let them act how they please and is ic for their character, if they're bad ass enough their actions will speak for them. As is the case with most villians/heroes in efu:a.
I think Garem's point is not that Level Fours cannot help with this. But more along the lines of people being like.Nonchalant.
"Pfft, who cares if they killed a werewolf, it's just a dog. I'm too cool for that anyway."
etc.
We do kill werewolves everynight we travel...
But i think the point was: there are some real villains and real heroes, and it takes some time to build suspense/action to the climax of things. Don't rush being a villain or hero, it takes more than winning at PvP each time someone insults your PC.
I believe the point of this is more along the lines of something that happened with Vlad died. One of my characters ran into a very low level character that was bragging how he took down Vlad. What happened? When Vlad was at Near Death and being taken to be executed it seems Vlad tried to make a break for it. A very low level character hit Vlad from behind and subdued him (ie one lucky hit). This low level character proceeded to explain to all his friends how he 'rushed Vlad' when 'Vlad was trying to run like a coward'. When called on it and challenged to a duel, the player made an OOC remaker of 'I want to be clear this is only a level three guy'. After the duel where the character was soundly beaten? The character said ok now I am ready to go on a quest and then was right back to bragging how he took down Vlad.
My two cents. If you decidde its IC for you to be a braggart or a moron (ie not being affraid of something like Caddies Werewolf) then very well. But if that would -not- be IC for your character please realize that its not very impressive when you say things like are mentioned above. This is especially true if the death in question happens because of a gank squad response to a sending about pvp somewhere.
- My Two Cents
Well said Garem!
Maybe reading comprehension is failing me.
So you don't want people, in character, to brag and act like they're bad ass when they're not? Or is this about bragging OOC?
Clearly you shouldn't act bad ass IC and then try and avoid the IC consequences in an OOC manner but otherwise I fail to see the value of the original post.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/06/Crocker1.JPG)
Niner just became a DM so he could troll the forums without being banned.
9lives yer my hee-ro.
Seneschal, naw, I was applauding the people who did awesome things. Boasting about it is great when you actually do it. I'm referencing the rediculousness of before the final fight when people were getting taken out like flies and that was entirely ignored. The only real fear I've seen IG has been through spells. That's a bit rediculous, considering some of the terrible things out there, isn't it?
When every single PC on the server basically ignored the terrifying nature of Cruloch (insert any of the notable badasses... Kassarack, Dakarai, anyone!) then they're taking something major away from the story. Maybe it's based on the OOC knowledge that it's almost impossible for them to be a certain level because this is a low level server. I'd say it's more likely that people just don't take death seriously because the blood we spill is in numbers and pixels.
As for scrib's reference to my ego, dude, my PC played no part in any of the attacks on Cruloch. If anything, I've been astoundingly insignificant since my return to EfUA.
Amusing reference, 9lives. >.>
Oh, and I'm going to give my opinion about it if I think someone's playing their character in a stupid way that is injurious to the story of EfU:A. I would bitch and moan if everyone made min-maxed half orcs that spoke with the eloquence of a wizard, too. Unless you're implying that everyone is an 8 wisdom lout with no regard for their safety in the face of one of the most efficient killers I've had the experience of watching, then yea, I guess I'm wrong.
While I agree with some points you make Garem, it still sounds like you're trying to tell people how to play their characters, and that's a no-no. There are many times I might get annoyed (or worse) with play I see in game, but we all have to remember it's a game for all of us, not just the rocking out players. We're all entitled to play our characters how we want to (and if we get smacked down for it then so be it. :p )
Well, myself as a new player felt like you are trying to tell me and other new players to recognize their places and play quiet, and let the awesome more experienced players to do all the cool stuff and get all the attention, being the protagonists and antagonists of the server. If that is what you are trying to say here, well, sorry dude, I don't think most people play to make an unoticed character at all, as Thomas said, everyone wants attention, nothing you can do about it.
Ommadawn, I'm absolutely entitled to suggest what I please! Just as your entitled to disagree. This isn't a new discussion, at the heart of it. We've had discussions before about how very few players recognize that it's IN CHARACTER to roleplay fear. To blindly ignore pain being inflicted upon your character is to act OUT OF CHARACTER, too (the original point being the absolute uselessness of torture, I think). Barring extreme examples, of course. It's damned near metagaming, in my opinion!
I think the term I've heard used before is "Betty Sue"-ism and... well, a guy name version. Every woman is the most beautiful ever and just as brave as the absurdly ripped he-men. When that happens, being super hawt suddenly means you're just normal. Nobody is special, not even for a second, because everyone is disproportionally strong, brave, beautiful, etc.. Do you really support this sort of thing, Ommadawn?
If you feel that way, Raposa, then I do apologize. That's not at all what I'm trying to say, nor my intention. Somewhere in my typing perhaps I fumbled with some poorly chosen words. Anyone can rock out, and I definately want everyone to rock out. I'll definately support you when people act in an OOC manner towards you too.
New players are probably the biggest victims of a similar problem, by old and new players alike, as even if they make it to a high rank or some honorable position, simply lack of name value will leave you less respected than someone with half a billion posts and more PvP victories than they can remember. Quite frankly, I'm probably guilty of this too! Even if a new player's PC noble who can't type correctly and frequently dies to rats (no offense, Kotenku), he should be respected by damn near everyone who doesn't want a Ruby to teach him the meaning of the word.
It just bothered me to see so much rediculous bravado in the face of what was truly terrifying. And a lot of people died, which while I sympathize, is the just outcome.
Maybe my recall overstates the actual amount of this going on. Certainly possible, I won't deny it. Just saying... everything above.
You can make any "suggestion" you like Garem, but it has been clearly established (and by most DM's) that telling other people how to play their characters is not acceptable. Now, that was the first impression I got from your OP, and it may not be all you were trying to say, but it was my first impression.
As for your other points, RP servers like this are a form of entertainment and escape for most of us, so we should be able to play the characters we want to, or feel comfortable with! We want to be heroes, so we make them buffed, or beautiful. Why not? I personally do not make perfect, beautiful people (all the time <_<) but whatever floats people's boats is fine, in my opinion.
I also like to RP fear, pain etc. I have had several characters (including a current) who have been tortured, terrified and maimed in game by others. I do my best to play out the consequences, and I imagine others do to. But not all people will react that way, and there's not a lot you can do about it. Sometimes, it's simply a matter of player education perhaps, but whatever the reason, player respect is most important to me.
Quote from: Garem;129170(...) because, frankly, we're generally better players than those newer to the server.
I mean, seriously dude, WTF?
This just seems a rehashed version of the old "Roleplaying Fear" discussion except with an utterly confusing introduction from the OP.
The fact is, not everyone enjoys playing a meek character-- and even those who do, don't always make them every single time. PCs are not commoners; they are adventurers. Most of them will be bold, fierce and courageous to a fairly high degree as they strive to become heroes and villains during their careers.
While I personally respect people who roleplay out some degree of fear/wariness when confronted with dangers thrown at them by both DMs and other player characters, its not going to be common on a game where most people are trying to make a name for themselves both ICly and OOCly.
Notwithstanding the important point that no player can really perceive what another player's PC's backstory/personality/agenda is to any certainty. Thus when you see a PC acting all badass in the face of a werewolf attack, you might not know that he is a ranger with FE: Lycanthropes whose parents were killed by a werewolf, and whose agenda is the merciless eradication of all lycanthropes on Ymph. In fact, many of the problems of EFU stem from players assuming too much, and this is why such judgements should be left wholly in the hands of the MUCH more informed DMs.
And, as you can see, venting any frustrations you have with how others are portraying their PCs will lead to people getting defensive/irate...which a quick forum search probably would have revealed before you bothered embarking on your tirade, Garem!
"Nobody is special, not even for a second, because everyone is disproportionally strong, brave, beautiful, etc.."
Generally, PCs represent adventurers, people with more muscle, smarts, whatever than the average, and the pair of big brass ones (or lack of self preservation) to want to go and kill an army of orcs for fun and profit.
99% of fighters will be disproportionately strong. Bards will be hawt. Wizards will be able to out-think Mr Ymphian Average.
Someone bites off more than he can chew here, he'll get whooped either by monsters or players over it. Plenty of my PCs have turned down quests/events/PVP attacks because they reckon it's a bad plan, the team is unsuitable or they'd be outgunned.
If someone's bluffing, they've every IC right to say "I got him!". Yes, that guy subbed Vlad with a lucky shot. And then he got his ass kicked. He can say what he wants, but he won't be taken seriously any more than my wizard saying "I PUNCHED OUT DAKARAI IN ONE HIT!". Anyone watching saw him trip a beaten prisoner, and will laugh in his face. Anyone who doesn't know, well make your own mind up.
Quote from: scribjellydonut;129176I don't see the point in this post. If a level four character wants to be part of the action and it's IC for him to want to help those around him, let him run out and get killed in two rounds by a werewolf if he wants to. It's not as if character levels should influence a PC's IC actions anyhow(Although I know this is an idealization)
So you've came to the forums telling the new players not to be glory hogs, but at the same time that seems to be exactly what you're doing. You're telling others OOC to stand down for the sake of someone else's OOC ego.
If I am being overly callous or misunderstood the post because I lack some other information regarding this storyline then I apologize, but that's how I interpreted what you were saying and I found it rather selfish.
I agree with steve. If a level 4 billy badass and you act in concecuence of his actions, without fearing dead he won't be able to continue his RP untill he truly has earned it.
Billy "Giantslayer": *hears a conversation about how somone will need to fight the mist ogres, begins to talk about his great adventures and how he killed a legion of giants in his lv4 mightyness*
Random adventuer: *Laughs at him, and decides to see what billy is made of: he attacks him while he is in subdual mode*
Billy "Gaintslayer": *Is subdued*
Random adventurer: *Laughs at Billy, and wanders off*
Or, to type less: next time a new character acts like he was bane himself, if your character is annoyed by it, or feels like to stop him, beat the crap out of him in Subdual PvP. He won't find loosing fun, and will think better of pretending to be the main villan with no power to back him up.
Character 1: "Look! i killed Vlad in a single hit, i am god!"
Caracter 2:"Really? let's see what you are made off"
Character 1: *Dies*
Charatcer 2: *laughs*
I think this illustrates my point even better.
This thread derailed pretty quick. To summarize my thoughts: Have faith in your fellow players. If you're upset about something, take a step back, analyze the events objectively, speak with a DM in a calm, intelligent fashion, and we'll offer our thoughts accordingly. I have seen that players who approach us with concerns get a much better perspective on the events, and leave happier than they were before. These concerns do not need to be addressed publicly, because as you can see, threads derail, bad feelings arise, and threads get locked.