I want to applaud the players of PCs that have been on the server for a long time. They add some continuity to the storyline, and make the experience more enjoyable in my opinion.
There are so many times I log on now, and in cycles of just a few weeks, the character list is almost completely devoid of names I recognize. While I appreciate that this is the nature of the game, sometimes I wonder if we wouldn't be better off with a bit more permanence.
This is not a sour grapes post about my personal experience with my own character. It's something that I noticed in the Underdark, and has seemed to crop now and again.
I'm not sure what the answer is, but there are so many permadeath PVP kills, I honestly can't keep track of them. As a result, I have become somewhat blase about what should be prominent characters being killed and disappearing from the server.
Maybe that's just the nature of the beast, and that's fine too. Just wondering what others think about this issue.
So keep up the good work, those of you that play visible and memorable characters that define this server and keep some semblance of an evolving saga rather than just a compendium of short stories and tall tales.
I personally think that DMs might consider setting a standard at which points players may opt to have their PCs turned into NPCs. You can't ever go to the character again and they belong entirely to the DMs, but it's a way to have your PC take up a practically permanent residence.
An example of how this might have worked is with the late Clarice Nemetski. Let's say she attained whatever standard the DMs set for something like this.
Well, at 'retirement', the DMs take Nemetski and have her spawn permanently in the Mausoleum where she might offer the same benefits as some of the clerics in the other temples.
The trick would be setting a standard that isn't unattainable, but also isn't too simple.
alternately, this might simply be something you app for and the DMs arrove/disapprove it.
I dunno, but yes, it's off to me that the changeover is as fast as it is, sometimes. But it is the nature of the beast.
QuoteI'm not sure what the answer is, but there are so many permadeath PVP kills, I honestly can't keep track of them.
I think you are grossly overstating the effect of PVP deaths on the server population. As someone who has had (in the past only, no longer) responded to PvP and followed outcomes it became apparent that the majority of PCs are dropped due to two reasons:
1) It was a hastily rolled PC and the player got bored with it, moving on to another PC
2) PC died on a scripted quest, player is pissed and permas
And yes, they must all die sometime, this being an action oriented server rather than a social one.
We have something like 400 to 700 different characters logged in each month (or did, at some point; Strife would know this better than me), and the vast majority of them are still alive at the end of the month.
It's not that so many characters die [to PvP] but that important and/or memorable characters end up in deadly situations (and then don't get out of them - alive, anyways).
Vast majority of PCs are just abandoned (or die to something silly), probably a solid majority of PvP deaths the player of the PC was ready to move on to a new character anyway and welcomed it.
Long lasting PCs are good though.
If people are playing an actual prominent PC and are sort of sick of it, they can talk with a DM about the possibility of turning it into a NPC. Most of the time we probably won't be interested though, unless the PC would provide a specific purpose.
Me?
I love the short story. (Look at my PCs haha.)
A month is the ideal length for a character I personally believe.
You spend a week or so getting established, you spend a week tooling up for something big once established, once you're tooled up you spend a week or two rocking.
After that you're either dead, or not.
But a damn fine way to spend IG.
I'd much rather throw my heart and soul into a character for a short story (Often a tragic tale), and make it an interesting place where I feel like I did something cool.
Characters lasting longer than a month usually leave me feeling like I'm getting bored, and I hate being bored.
I'm a builder. I like my PCs setting up factions, getting groups off the ground. Every PC faction I've ever made has gone on after my death, but I get no joy more than watching other PC's enjoy a group I made, carrying on the story, and prospering.
Its one of those things where you can sit back and go "Hah. I made that."
Though that's probably why I went DM <_<
Personally, I think characters should stick around for a long time. It'd be nice if people could find a character they liked playing for a long time, and just stick with it even if they died a sucky death. The intrigue of getting supplies back through loans and services can be just as cool as what you do with the supplies. From the perspective of a character who has been around for a while, I do find it a bit annoying when I need to find a new crew to chill with every few weeks or so!
bit of both types is the best, as per usual LOL. making some chars npcs after awhile isn't really going to remedy anything
I think it really depends on the character. If you get involved in a lot of dirty scandals or simply with the 'wrong' crowd, you should expect PvP to happen eventually.
If you die, so be it, it's the life you picked for the character and their story. If you survive and live on through PvP, I'd say that's even better because it provides great oppertunities for more RP.
Longer lived PCs are awesome. I applaud the players that can play them. I cannot really. Though I've had some exceptions.
Must they all die? Was the OP's question.
The answer, in game and out, is, unavoidably, unequivocally, ...
YES.
(If days are hours, and months are years, a PC with several months real time has had a quite long career indeed.)
One thing I'd like to announce to everyone. Do -not- make new characters more often. Instead of making ten characters, 1 for each concept make one character. Try to make a character that gives you an amazing feeling and you WANT to stick with. Make one character, and play him until he permas, lives for a long time, or you have to do some other plot.
One of my first, but most favorite characters in the UD lasted for 4 months. I had a blast and enjoyed the greatest kinds of times. I was able to join the church of Dumathoin, Hang out in Upper and lower, enjoyed the remnants of montezzi, and had major fun with the other dwarves and with Prince Gyrrt. I met players, associated with them, and made friends. In the following, I made some enemies (Savraass worshippers!).
In the end he died during the exodus with some other dwarves trying to go to some dwarven kingdom for safety and aid in saving sanctuary. But on this trip he died in Mur with many others. It was glorious.
I would only lv6 Cleric but I lived for such a long time. My reccomendation for concepts is to start low, but work your way higher and higher until they gain many companions and foes. This way your character doesn't perma die within the first week. Always try to make your experience with characters long, strong, and far.
Remember that if you want to do perma battles make sure it is for a good cause, reason, and experience for your next characters.
Also: Levels don't matter! Although they help, I disaprove of power questing. Roleplaying is simple. So instead with a lv3 character that only has 15 mintues, roleplay instead of questing! Your characters strength and greatness is only shown in amount of items after helping others, your equiptment, and your companions who aid you.
They must all die. That's the cycle of life, yo. Alpha to Omega and all that crap.
It is ok if you die due to Pvp or Dm events. As long as the character had a long time, exceled in his goals, accomplished various things, and most of course....
HAD FUN! :)
Playing the same character for a long length of time is fairly uncommon for me. Playing one for other a month, I tend to consider a success (Clarice lasted a month and seven days).
Most of my characters I'll perma during a scripted quest or I'll just abandon all together. I've come to view death by PvP (which has never happened to me) or DM event (e.g. Clarice and Senestia) to be successes in that it's a sort of glorious, going out with a bang, kind of death.
I typically play characters for about two weeks to a month, but the characters that I truly enjoy and would play for a long time always end up dead early. It is something I would like to change, but I do like playing characters who get themselves into trouble.
How do people play PC's longer thana month and a half at most....o.o
I typically play someone for three days, decide if I like where the character is going, then come up with goals and move on from there. It's all about being careful in PvP so that you don't die before your goals are met, and about keeping a fresh supply of goals so that you don't lose interest and quit playing the charcter.
It is possible Thomas. The reason why my PCs live for awhile is because I can't play 24/7 and I spend more time RPing than questing on EFU
A fun and interesting character for me is one that is always at risk of being killed by an opposing faction. Nothing more fun than having to watch your every move!
What Dream just said is one of the reasons I've always loved monstrous PCs - but be aware this is merely because, on my own, I tend to be unable to piss off enough PCs to make them give me the thrill of the hunt.
Conflict, danger, short and furious, or longer and legendary lives - that is EfU.
A lot of my chars (actually, almost any one I didn't abandon for one reason or another) lived a long time.
Luke Danger, my first, lasted about a year. Really fun to play, even though he had difficulty. Being a Paladin, who joins a Watch, when it was loaded with evil chars, and also being the arch-enemy (so to speak) of the greatest PC faction ever (Montezzi), and trying to breathe life into a faction long-since dead. (I honestly was just hangover).
My second real concept was Alexander Patton, and he lasted a good few months, and really enjoyed him. He wasn't an epic hero, but he was friends with them. He turned into a bit of a leader as the Exodus began, caring for the safety of others, and basically turning from TN to NG, a change I think suited him well.
Then Orik Ironhammar, only over a month, so short for me as a main, but he certainly made a mark, and I enjoyed him, even if he had the (in my honest oppinion), the suckiest deaths. Killed when I was just getting back from a quick AFK that I had to do. [I blame my dad, 'cause he was the reason]
AFter, I had James Byrdeye. Origonally intended as a dump-char so I could help make the Zig safer so there's a safe place for the playerbase, rather than the un-defended terretory as it was durring Orik Ironhammer. He was retired on my part, as I had acomplished what I had hoped for with the character, and it was time to get back to my Team Good works.
And finally, my most recent KIA, Rob Darkspell. Out of all my characters, I enjoyed him the most. Why? Because he was, while not a jack-of-all-trades, fairly versitile. Stealth, spells, herbs, and a fine archer. He also had, in my oppinion, the best backround story of my characters. But what really made him my favorite was getting to play with friends (and actually met new ones) as him. He was deep in a lot, but what I thought was his ability to walk from city to nature with relative ease, something I didn't exactly intend.
So for me, the common KIA rate isn't that high, as I tend to play more tenatively, not commiting before a month (if possible), playing it safe, being on the winning side most of the time ( :P )
But I won't deny it, chars die, but it does leave a bit of a hole in the player, especially for those who've grown with their characters. For me especially, this happens. Buyer's Remorse I guess.
Beggar hit the nail on the head about why most PC's vanish: Boredom or frustration over monster kill. Lets add to that unavailability of the player also.
I know a lot of well received characters that vanished because the player just stopped playing altogether....a really, really long AFK session.
Personally, I don't give up on characters because they die on quests or whatever. and if the character seems stale, I create a nuance for that character to explore and see what happens.
As far as PC's becoming NPC's I like the idea, but I really don't know if it'll fly (or is appropriate) on this module. The simplest reason is because I feel players would feel slighted if their character wasn't selected to be 'promoted' to an NPC. It would just be another headache that the DM's would have to deal with. Aside from that, how do you determine the 'standards' for becoming an NPC? That's nearly impossible to define.
I enjoy long-lasting characters and I feel others enjoy them as well (I've had a few myself that I stuck with). Maybe we're just in the A.D.H.D phase of the server right now. :-p
Quote from: Gwydion;127150I'm not sure what the answer is, but there are so many permadeath PVP kills, I honestly can't keep track of them. As a result, I have become somewhat blase about what should be prominent characters being killed and disappearing from the server.
This is both a blessing and a curse, a blessing because it kinda feels pointless to kill a character in a well RPed PvP conflict knowing OOC he will resapaw, there is no way to ensure victoy.
A curse, because it gives the playerbase an excuse to engage mindless PvP: kill the guy, get the items.
Quote from: Gwydion;127150Maybe that's just the nature of the beast, and that's fine too. Just wondering what others think about this issue.
So keep up the good work, those of you that play visible and memorable characters that define this server and keep some semblance of an evolving saga rather than just a compendium of short stories and tall tales.
Oh there are some names that remain, but usallly they are rare, Juniper strides, Malachi kent come to mind. I think most however are "experiments" or ppl simply get bored of playing with them. I have lost most of my characters that way, one day i simply say: i want to play a wizard rather than a rogue.
QuoteA curse, because it gives the playerbase an excuse to engage mindless PvP: kill the guy, get the items.
This statement has no bearing to reality. When does this happen?
Aside from the very occasional (once every 3-4 months) griefer with a level 2 half-orc that just logs on to cause trouble, I can't think of this occurring in at least a year or more.
Never said a grifer, but it does seem like people enjoy PvP more than what i'm used to in other modules.
Quote from: Drakill Tannan;127234Never said a grifer, but it does seem like people enjoy PvP more than what i'm used to in other modules.
This is partially true but you have a seemingly warped view as to why this is the case!
What the original poster said, was that just lately, it SEEMS like fewer people are sticking with their characters after an unfortunate incident; many have happened through Full Damage PvP.
But not ALL have done this.
The original post was a commentary on character turnover mostly, with a side-topic mentioning that most pvp situations lately seem to be FD:Kills instead of a subdue with a taunt or a maiming or deadly deadline or something.
I agree with Howland that there's not been an outright griefer on the server in a really long time. Last one I was victim to was easily over a year and a half ago. Though I did have someone pull that stunt on my highest level character once, my auto attack subdued him in one hit. Imp Crit FTW!
The great majority of PvP on EFU:A has in fact been non-lethal, I'd wager.
I have enjoyed almost every single PVP encounter I have been in on EFU/EFU:A.
The only ones I haven't enjoyed, were usually my own fault.
Perhaps you believe there to be more FD PvP because you've been reading about my foolish brethren, who continue to rampantly toss themselves into the den of the beast.
lol. It is sadly true.
It depends on the PC. I've played fairly neutral, helpful PCs who tried not to make enemies and had rather conflict-free goals as long-term characters I like going back to, and characters like Stormpriest Waynolt who just wanted to pick fights. I like having PCs I can RP, explore and quest on, and then the odd one designed to make a short-term impression.
I've also had some awesome subdual PVP, be it repeatedly brawling the same street gang, or challenging Morogh for his territory when both PCs were low level.
PvP deaths are by far the minority of character endings. TBH, unlike so many other ways that a PC could retire - in PvP their story does not end. It becomes part of your killers and that is pretty damn awesome. Way better then random death to spawns\boredom. PvP is not the problem!
Quote from: djspectre;127238The original post was a commentary on character turnover mostly, with a side-topic mentioning that most pvp situations lately seem to be FD
I understand the feeling of logging on an knowing absolutely no one these days, but you can see this two ways:
- either a drag to have to start relationships all over again,
- either an opportunity to get to know new people.
I do enjoy it when there's a balance of both, where some PCs make a continuity to the server, but with fresh blood incoming.
Things have a way of settling down, anyways.
i wish there was a lot more pvp tb h
In case anyone is interested, I attached some charts from tonight that are sorta relevant to the discussion here. Hopefully they're self-explanatory. I don't have THIS particular data readily available over a time series (so I can't quickly go back an checked what this looked like a year ago), but it's possible to regenerate that data for given dates.....
In case anyone is interested, I attached some charts from tonight that are sorta relevant to the discussion here. Hopefully they're self-explanatory. I don't have THIS particular data readily available over a time series (so I can't quickly go back an checked what this looked like a year ago), but it's possible to regenerate that data for given dates.....
Pretty intresting data, but the Green is Old EfU, and the Red is EfU:A?
It is possible that the major number of low-end Red is because of new players coming and finding the place not to their likeing. Or it could be concepts being abandoned, which I certainly have done when it just proved too slow or I just couldn't do it.
They're both EfU: A, red is time spent online, green is the age of the character (from when they were first started to when they were last played).