dms, i thought about it alot. it got absurd that monks became so depandant on items... its so bad that monks become relaying on stuff (my monk got extreme ac, for monks (many items) if he doesnt have them, he is as importent as dead)

it shouldnt be like that. moreover, monks are extreme hard to RP. means, a monk should be STRONGER, and yet, should hold almost nothing special on him (and not, monk's habit, a belt, two rings, amulet, about 2000 coins, four pairs of gloves, etc. he worth more then 7000k i believe, only by items, its too much)

i tihnk monks should get more XP punishments and stricted by dms, and become stronger by server rules. else a monk is a just a person who learned karate... =S

and gets ac bonus for wisdom, better damage for unararmed attacks,Imunity to disease and faster movment speed at higher lvls. Personaly i think monks are fine as is.

then you didnt understand what i said....

monks get wisdom modifier, while others god sheilds and weapons. a paladin get immunity for desease as well, by the way, and a good fighter has enoguh fortitude anyway...

im say a monk should be stronger, and get panelties if he not RP well,

RPing well means he wont be greedy, etc. monk is a very powerful char, and should stay so.... its payment is the RP... which is a lot.

the problem here, is that a monk is not as powerful as it should be. makes him to have to be depandant on more items, ruins his RP (actually monks should be aplication needed, to my thinking...)

Monks get stronger as levels rise, Just as Wizards do. You can't expect everything to pwn at level 3 or 4. I've never played a monk, but if I did I'd expect it'd strictly be for the roleplay (Which it should always be! >.>) Rangers are far more gimped anyway.

The small number of good monks I've seen (two? three?) have gotten some nice equipment.

And role-playing a monk well has more to do than not being greedy and stealing.

Monks on servers like this once they reach level 6 are extremley powerful. If you don't have an awesome fort save you have low constitution because monk is a class that gets even base saves. If you have even con even dex and even wisdom your fort, reflex and will saving throws will be even.

As with some of the other intricate classes (bard, barbarian, druid, even rogue) you need to know how to use them to make them powerful. Its not about stats its just about how you actually play. In the right hands a monk is a monster of obscene amounts of destruction.

Agreed.

You could always come up with a philosophy (depending on your character's alignment and order) and try selling it to other people. If you can play a charasmatic guru well enough, I doubt that you'll ever have to do any of your own fighting...

im not saying my monk is not strong... i just said there is a big diffrance if he has all the "ac bonuses from items" (my monk beat up a bard with song and ghostly visage, arena)

monks gone way far and diffrent from what they are in PnP

I guess i dont see the point. Monks are tough to play at low levels just like any character. Them getting powerful, especially through items is no different than any other class. Wizards are deadly at high levels with some of the spells they get. I have played monks quite a bit, well crafted monk might I add. I dont think RPing them is hard at all, evil or good. But, I train and teach kung fu so maybe it comes more naturally. I dont see why they should get punishments. There are races that get bonuses against poisons and what not, you can take feats to resist such things. Sed, care to chime in on this one?

RP fantastically, get the best loot (custom DM made RP rewards) and your character will be effective, no matter what the class is.

That's the idea, monks should get diffrent type of "loot" not exactly items, but more like "enlightment" (not speaking about xp nessecerily)

I get to meet many PnP dms young (19+) and old (get to 20-30+) monks should be more RP depandent then other chars, more restricted in many ways (like clerics get restricted in many ways - spell failiure, personally I see this as guiding from dms to RP the char better)

Monks should have more restrictions, and more "bonuses".

If char could be actaully adited, i would call it Deep Monk. their whole idea seems to change, perhaps get stricted in the underdark.

Comming to think about it (and reading all the posts here) Perhaps i just hit it all wrong, and need guide myself?

I would like to hear the general concept of monks in your eye/s (if possible)

I do not see why one should add to the Monk's already extensive list of innate abilities and useful skills. More "bonuses" to the Monk class is not desirable from a balancing point of view.

I really don't understand what this post is suggesting, but I do find the challenges and benefits of playing and RPing a monk to be very satisfying. I think the important thing to keep in mind is to not limit yourself to the stereotypical kung fu master personna. Think outside of the box and you'll find this class to be as versatile to RP as they are to play. They compliment just about any group extremely well. Alone, and the Monk is about as vulnerable, but elusive and capable as are Rangers and Rogues. You simply fight at your own risk. With a group, they can fill most voids and support most situations. The checks and balances are about right for this class, and will get even better for all classes with 3.5.

I really don't worry much about what items he finds (and really shouldn't given their supposed humble nature), as long as his primary goals and objectives are met. For my character, those goals and objectives are not magical and material. So all is well in Darkville.

yes. while vows of poverty etc mean items are not necessarily something a monk would seek out, in order to have a few AC bonuses I don't see why they wouldn't purchase a habit or such thing.

The main issue alogen is justifying your monk's collection of items IC. If you don't think they should hoard such items then you might just have to be satisfied with a lower AC and try to avoid dying.

If you feel strongly enough about being humble and poor, then you should rely solely on your natural AC from dex and wisdom. If a little bit of self protection seems appropriate for your character, then I don't see whats wrong with having such items.

[edit]: in other words... I think monks are fine as a class.

I think Naga said it well - in the right hands and under the right circumstances, a monk is incredibly dangerous.

Think of the monk that has a high level mage, for example: Protection from Alignment Magic Weapon (if he uses kamas) Bull strength Cat's grace Owl's Wisdom Endurance Flame Weapon (if he uses kamas) Stoneskin Haste Improved Invisibility

The monk can benefit from ALL those, and probably pwn anyone, prepared or not.

If your monk is pansy and having trouble in quests, then it's likely more to do with the casters not knowing how to use a monk in the party, than the monk class in itself being weak.

Bindragon wrote:

I really don't understand what this post is suggesting,

Its Discussion, not Suggestion.

Thank you, guys, i understood it, but i had another, now i see more solid, question:) What is the general RP concept of Monk in the underdark?

Currently my monk is seeking challange, which includes helping others (I put Tyr in his diety, for RP reasons), fixing the wrong, etc. He just started to write a book as well:) And his high goal is perfaction of body, mind and soul. (lone monk)

I would ask some more, but this perhaps better for mail (more pirvate issue, then this general discussion)