I'm a bit curious as to why this spells duration was increased. It seems to me the spell is more than powerful enough as a round / level spell when comparing it to other spells of it's level. A simple level 2 wizard spell that can only be countered with a level 4 spell and that pretty much shuts down their ability to defend themselves entirely for anywhere from 3 - 18 minutes seems a bit much. When you compare to hold person, which is a level higher, but which has a fair few counters, including a simple 1st level spell, it seems a bit out of balance to me.

Because mages need at least a few effective PVP spells? As you said, hold person is countered by a lvl 1 spell. Realistically most wizards will never, ever get more then lvl 4 spells. There are only so many spells which are actually effective in PVP.

All spells are effective if you use them well.

Blindness and Hold Person are sadly both lower level spells that tend to be among the most effective already.

I can't tell which is worse.

Hold Person essentially takes out most classes, and all you can do is stand there while a wizard pummels you with damage spells.

Blindness you can at least run away still to fight back later, although with a feat like Blindfight-you can really tear the wizard apart for relying on it.

I tend to think Hold Person is still the worst of the two, and the 'easy' counters are only easy if you use them before the wizard strikes. As with all things, balance is subjective and depends mostly on the situation.

If a wizard hits you with a hold person(I'm assuming a lvl 5-6 wizard which is around the server average) and plan to finish off a fighter or paladin or cleric or well... basically almost any moderate to high HP class with damage spells of roughly equal level, your going to have to devote most of your spell slots, to those damage spells. Likewise for blind/deaf. Low level mage spells don't do all that much damage, or are often not apropriate for the situation(such as fireball).

It is not effective for most mages to carry hold person/blind AND damage spells because if they do, they won't have any utility spells.

Any wizard worth his salt though won't be pummeled by a blind fighter because they should be out of melee range and there is no way for a blind/deaf opponent to find the casting wizard unless they cheat with tab.

I think its fine the way it is. There is an easy, somewhat cheap auto-success counter to Blindness/Deafness. People just don't use it, or look for those who might be able to create it.

[EDIT: Enlightened- the counter is actually very expensive to make, definetly too much to counter a level 2 spell]

Vesa Because mages need at least a few effective PVP spells? As you said, hold person is countered by a lvl 1 spell. Realistically most wizards will never, ever get more then lvl 4 spells. There are only so many spells which are actually effective in PVP.

Wizards have plenty of spells that are more than effective in PvP already which have no counters. Off the top of my head-

Balagarn's Iron Horn Gust of Wind

Two spells which are no counters to them in spell form, and which can give a fair amount of time to pummel someone with no recourse. The difference, though? These spells are round / level or less in duration. Blindness / Deafness duration is simply too long for a spell which only has high level / exceptionally expensive counters and which, if RP'd correctly, should really debilitate your character in such a way that he's entirely defenceless.

PnP it is actually hour/level.

It's an effective spell, but it doesn't shut people down. You can still drink potions, fumble about blindly, run randomly (maybe smacking into walls, though!), etc. Finally, potions of remove blindness/deafness although expensive do drop throughout the module and it shouldn't be difficult for a character who tries to stay prepared to have a few on hand and in a special belt-slot.

Wiggyboy

Vesa Because mages need at least a few effective PVP spells? As you said, hold person is countered by a lvl 1 spell. Realistically most wizards will never, ever get more then lvl 4 spells. There are only so many spells which are actually effective in PVP.

Wizards have plenty of spells that are more than effective in PvP already which have no counters. Off the top of my head-

Balagarn's Iron Horn Gust of Wind

Two spells which are no counters to them in spell form, and which can give a fair amount of time to pummel someone with no recourse. The difference, though? These spells are round / level or less in duration. Blindness / Deafness duration is simply too long for a spell which only has high level / exceptionally expensive counters and which, if RP'd correctly, should really debilitate your character in such a way that he's entirely defenceless.

Right. Use those spells around non hostile NPCs and see what happens. The PC won't be the least of your worries.

Right. Use those spells around non hostile NPCs and see what happens. The PC won't be the least of your worries.

I was unaware that so much PVP happened in front of NPCs?

Wizards are PVP machines if they're on offense, which, if they're good, they can always be. Changing Blindness/Deafness won't really affect this, so we leave it at its current duration.

-Cross

PVP happens a moderate amount in front of NPCs, either where the wizard did not have a choice and was attacked, or they do it supervised in front a DM.

Anyway as long as the spell is not changed, I have nothing else to add to this thread heh.

you could when a person cast blindness on you you can give them a +5 on listen checks because when your blind you rely on your ears more. give them a +5 on spot when deaf so that you rely on eyes more. when both let them run into walls

Blindness/Deafness makes you blind and deaf in NWN, not just blind or deaf (as it's in PnP, chosen by the caster).

There's some spells that do either/or (Horizikaul's boom or thunderstones for deafness, cloud of bewilderment and the such for blindness), but even if he was referring to them, they're hardly worth the scripting issue of that. It definitely takes a person who loses one of her senses a while to develop the other senses more, and the duration that those spells have definitely doesn't cut it.

Please no changes. The spell is powerful yes, but so is anyone who specifically prepares for a bout of PvP. Mages must sacrifice a spell slot to have the spell and hence the power, and anyone who can do damages close in to a mage has a chance of interupting spells cast.