I've talked to Howland about adding magic bags, and NukeCat mentioned the DMs are discussing it.

I'm definitly FOR this. I don't have a character at all who isn't walking around discarding two or three Cure Serious potions because they weigh too much. Right down to guys who don't wear armor and have 10 STR. My 16 STR guy dropped Full Plate to wear Banded Mail to save on weight.

By 4th level in DnD, a party usually has some magic bag of holding; and in PnP you aren't carrying EVERYTHING you own on your own back.

Conversely, a second suggestion.

Hireable henchmen who are pack rothes. This is another idea I was going to use in a PW I was working on. Rothe are commoners, they won't fight, they've got enough HP to stay alive if attacked but not for TOO long if you don't come to their rescue.

They will be great for a few reasons:

1). Rothe hunting. 40 pounds of meat a shot, you'ld think you'ld be thoughtful enough to bring a way to carry it back.

2). Dead party member. How often are you at max cap. carrying back your dead? A pack rothe can handle one or two corpses, so you can get someone back and raised faster.

3). Pack Rothe just seem awesome. Maybe even hire an urchin off the streets though who is intelligent enough to pick up items in 'remains bags'.

4). If you find one or two suits of armor as random loot *during* a quest, you can put them on your rothe.

The drawback is that your Persistant Storage system isn't working right now. So if there is a crash, rothe disappear with everything on them. If the system gets fixed, rothe can be set up to be 'rented' automatically out of your bank account. Essentially a mini-storage you can rent if you have the gold for it and once the gold disappears 'angry rothe renting gnomes show up to collect the rothe with anything on it and magically disappear after causing it to drop everything its carrying'.

It sounds quite silly taking them in to certain places, and for some reason, I forsee tons of people with rothe trains. The idea still needs to be addressed (pack mule feat implemented somehow!) but perhaps this isn't the best, at least in it's presented, and simple, implementation.

The three things low carrying capacity adds to the server, in my opinion, are less item hoarding, more item distrobution, and, like with everything, the survivalist feeling.

Generally I agree, even 20% bags are insanely useful for medecine but I have to disagree with the armour issue. If you can't carry a plate, really, its more interesting that it IS too heavy to carry.

I can wear up to banded I think, but I never pass Light armour, perhaps a chainshirt origionally because the other stuff IS to heavy and it makes more sense to stick to what you can carry With your supplies, rather than ditching your supplies for better armour.

I'd like to see 20% bags as dm given quest loot, rather than shop items to keep them limited to a point.

Although I'm feeling the penalty of no Persistant Storage quite heavily.

I am totally with Fish on this one.

Wouldn't want to see magic bags just available to anyone in a shop, because anyone can get a lot of gold, and as a result you'd see a flood of the magic bags which wouldn't really make them a perk or special thing anymore.

But maybe added to loot on the higher-end quests, and definetly as a reward maybe on DM quests or DM-spiced quests, would be cool.

I don't want to see them as generic loot, else someone will just do the quest for the loot. I saw this with an underhelm a while back.

Maybe put it in one of the higher-tier loot chests, meaning the chance of getting one is super-slim, but possible.

The Pack Rothe idea is both ridiculous and fanciful... I like it, because... Well... It's so crazy it just might work?

ExileStrife It sounds quite silly taking them in to certain places, and for some reason, I forsee tons of people with rothe trains. The idea still needs to be addressed (pack mule feat implemented somehow!) but perhaps this isn't the best, at least in it's presented, and simple, implementation.

You EVER play DnD? You take horses, mules, wagons everywhere by a certain level just to carry the loot.

As for a 'train of rothe' there is the 1) price to keep that down and 2) supply of rothe. If there are only four or five rothe available at a time, that's all there is.

Rothe should also be returned to keep the fees down, and return automatically if a player logs out.

As a DM in RL games I used to take great pleasure in watching players dilemas when they would have carts and horses and had to work out what to do with them and their excess equipment when they had to go exploring in narrow caves etc.

With the nature of the game and the fact that peopel are basically living out of Motel rooms and there is no where to safely store your gear except on you I would hate to see that easily circumvented as it means you have to make decisions based on your charaters abilities. I find this is fun and it does mean you have consider carefully what you are going to take with you when you quest or explore.

Yes a couple of magic bags would be cool to see but perhaps also bags tailored for a specific purpose that can hold more of a particular item if not reducing weight - like Potion storage, herb storace, scrolls etc?

Not sure about the pack rothe, while the idea of a rothe following me around is hot, characters are too often in and out of doors and lava tubes and climbing ropes etc to have a rothe accompany them.

I do like the idea of special storage bags for herbs and scroll cases etc.

I also would like to see SOME form of hirable persistant storage when it returns. Considering not everyone joins factions, it would be good to have something that the everyday adventurer could lock away some valuable items in for a cost.

As nestek suggested in another thread, maybe spencer... or maybe even at the bank? Safe deposit boxes. :D

I like the pack animal idea.

I don't know about the magic bags. Every campaign is different, but in mine; magic bags are a godsend--and very rare. So, maybe a couple of ten could be introduced into circulation so to speak.

But how about this?!

Housing for adventurers! You pay xyz amount of gold per week and you get your own room with a kick-ass hard to pick lock AND a persistent chest that can say, hold up to three pages. Lodging (sleep) included. The price with of course be high, but it might be worth it to some people.

Too much overhead? Just a thought.

I also like the idea of enslaving goblins and making them your personal porters. :)

The idea of individual residences has been floated before and a few reasons have been given why not.

Apart form the overhead on the server to track everything it removes from the community - instead of having peopel needing to congregate in either faction areas or the inns everyone would just go to their little abodes.

Also where to find the space in Sanctuary to build these?

I think limited storage lockers that give you the equivilent storage of a leather bag would be a better way to go and hopefully less overhead.

I, sadly, cannot endorse this idea for a couple reasons.

First, carrying your dead friend back isn't supposed to be an easy thing. Have you, in real life, ever carried a limp human body (usually a friend who is way drunk)? It aint easy, and it sure has hell doesn't get any easier (or even possible) to carry two or more.

Second, having a pack rothe will cause two major technical problems: Lag and congestion.

The server already lags if you have more than 6 in your party. During module wide events when dozens of people are in the same area, the server comes to a crawl. Now DOUBLE that number if everyone has a pack rothe. And god forbid you need to make a quick escape through the small herd following everyone around!

And finally, lets not forget that Howland didn't want people hoarding items all and having these massive stockades of stuff. he wanted item rotation on the server.

Though this idea was concieved in good merit, from a technical standpoint I just don't think it's workable.

I'm all for the magical bag idea, but not so much for the rothe idea. That might be because I'd find it to be too much of a hassle though, so I won't go into that.

I do think that you should be able to use a full plate and carry a load of other stuff with 16 str though. Otherwise it will just encourage going for 18 str even more, and it seems there's more than enough motivation for people to do so already.

Sure, of course you should get rid of some of the loot you're carrying around, but it doesn't take that much to fill up the carrying capacity of 16 str. As far as I've understood, 16 str should be -a lot-.

Also, as a person who used to regulary go rothe hunting for the sake of having an excuse to go exploring at the same time, I noticed that the amount of rothe you could carry back very rarely compensated the losses you got when trying to find them. This is addressing the inability to carry much meat back, pointed out in the opening post. I won't got any further with this, since it's not really the main topic of this discussion.

djspectre

First, carrying your dead friend back isn't supposed to be an easy thing. Have you, in real life, ever carried a limp human body (usually a friend who is way drunk)? It aint easy, and it sure has hell doesn't get any easier (or even possible) to carry two or more.

Yes, and I put him on the back of a horse and carried him home. Ironic.

djspectre

Second, having a pack rothe will cause two major technical problems: Lag and congestion.

djspectre

The server already lags if you have more than 6 in your party. During module wide events when dozens of people are in the same area, the server comes to a crawl. Now DOUBLE that number if everyone has a pack rothe. And god forbid you need to make a quick escape through the small herd following everyone around!

djspectre

And finally, lets not forget that Howland didn't want people hoarding items all and having these massive stockades of stuff. he wanted item rotation on the server.

A temporary pack animal will not encourage hoarding. So this is a null issue.

djspectre

Though this idea was concieved in good merit, from a technical standpoint I just don't think it's workable.

Even I can work out the technical standpoint of it, and I'm not a tech person either.

In response to some old, unanswered comments:

It makes fine sense for an adventurer to keep a pack rothe. The rothe won't follow the adventurer EVERYWHERE. It will need to be left behind, which can easily be scripted.

If it's added, I had a thought. Tying up the Pack Rothe with a "Rothe Lead" item, similar to the manacles. Reduce movement to 0%, -2 dexterity, whatever. This way, your friendly beast of burden will be nice and restrained as the hook horrors feast on it... and your precious magical gear.

Ladocicea The Pack Rothe idea is both ridiculous and fanciful... I like it, because... Well... It's so crazy it just might work?

From purely a setting standpoint, they sound very, very plausible as a pack animal you could purchase at, say, Fort Mur for longer-range travel. How they're handled within Sanctuary could be left to the Town Council to deal with as an election issue (adventurers who want them, regular citizens who are sick of their poop, that kind of thing).

I also like the idea of magic bags.

I do think the cost and availability of both should seriously limit who can own either.

Also, I wanna be one of the server's first rothe rustlers!

Samuel_Drake I like the pack animal idea.

I don't know about the magic bags. Every campaign is different, but in mine; magic bags are a godsend--and very rare. So, maybe a couple of ten could be introduced into circulation so to speak.

I've personally handed out more than that, although I don't know how many are in circulation.

I could be wrong, but I think persistant storage has always been kind of a benefit for getting others involved/adding to the server in general. It's an incentive to be proactive, and once you have access to persistant storage, to STAY proactive.

It also might bog down the server (especially if EVERYONE has it). There's already a 20 item limit on Persistant Storage, so that fact inclines me to believe this.

Also, it is my personal opinion that trading and economics on the server are FAR too underplayed. There are a lot of things up right now talking about the best ways to survive and thrive in the Dark. All of them mention how important SUPPLIES and being well equipped are. If everyone just tucks away twenty items for that rainy day, this would further reduce the already stifled circulation of goods and items on the server.

This leads to my final point- the new market and auction house. Inside are two or three offices specifically created to help two things I noticed while playing Genevis Ward.

1) Traders get bogged down REALLY fast. Having a merchant guild office in the new market will allow them to have more goods and get more business. 2) Mercenaries and other kinds of warrior groups were having trouble with equipment. Not many people can spare to hold an extra suit of armor. Now, if a new mercenary group starts up they can have their very own office to help alleviate these problems.

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My conclusion, again, just my opinion:

If you're having a LOT of trouble carrying things (and you are NOT holding things for some kind of PC initiative) and don't have enough space and/or weight, you're probably carrying more than you need anyways. Give it away, sell it away. If you don't need it, someone else does.

I support the idea of the rothe carriers so long as they are able to be tied to a location, can not transition into situations a skidish pack animal may not readily go into, chance of running if combat ensues, and able to be killed and looted of all items on the animal. I wold wonder if the additional scripting needed to put all of it into action while maintaining balance would be doable, though I readily state I am no scripter.

On the magic bags, I'm for it. That said, I think they should be perhaps fairly difficult to obtain/somewhat rare/ big perks.

Rothe's are the greatest. I love the idea completley. Don't cry Lado. I'm sorry.

Put your less valuable stuff on the Rothe then. Or buff it.

Stop knocking the Rothe idea! :cry:

Samuel_Drake Housing for adventurers! You pay xyz amount of gold per week and you get your own room with a kick-ass hard to pick lock AND a persistent chest that can say, hold up to three pages. Lodging (sleep) included. The price with of course be high, but it might be worth it to some people.

I'm fine with magic bags/containers, although I think they should be uncommon at least, rather than something that can be bought at a shop or regularly dropped on a particular quest.

Off the top of my head, two issues with "storage lockers" or "safe deposit boxes" that everybody can get are: that a ton of junk would accumulate (or otherwise, the lockers would have to be regularly pruned out, which would be a bit intensive and have issues of its own), and that it would lead to issues where valuable or significant items (plot items, faction items, personal items, or otherwise) get locked away and are rendered inaccessible. Currently, with a limited number of storage chests, it's easy to supervise what's being stored; it would be much more difficult if there were hundreds of different "safe deposit boxes" filled with large numbers of items. Another issue is that persistent storage has a few potentially exploitable bugs still left in it, and I'm not entirely comfortable making it publically accessible in that state -- that may be able to be worked around, however (the scripts for the office persistent storage safes should be exploit-free).

The pack rothe idea intrigues me, although it sounds a bit complicated. I'm a little unclear on how it would hook into persistent storage, and whether or not the above accumulation/supervision issues would come into play; some clarification on that would be appreciated.

what about boxes, reducing capaicity on one side, and make the own box heavier. makeing it so, that only if the box is full it worth something (perhaps a box for the dead, one that is heavy, yet with the corpse is lighter (if i was given the corpse's wight, i could check the mathmatics for the logic of it))

Arkov,

I was under the impression that persistent storage caused serious lag issues when exporting/importing between NWN and the MySQL database. On a server as busy as EfU, this should be a serious consideration.

Icky Arkov,

I was under the impression that persistent storage caused serious lag issues when exporting/importing between NWN and the MySQL database. On a server as busy as EfU, this should be a serious consideration.

A more concerning issue would be if a persistent storage chest had to be emptied out automatically when a character (or escort) dies -- since deaths occur during combat, the extra processing required to clean out the database entries could cause lag just when we're trying to avoid it (combat involving people dying). This is a possible concern about the pack rothe suggestion.

That said, though, I think that server-side processing should be going pretty quickly now. I haven't had a chance to test it, but while I was away we got a really fast new server and it should (hopefully) make server-side lag mostly disappear.

As I understand, persistant storage currently works because the items are copied over to an NPC who is then saved. At least, that was my experience in previous modules with persistant storage. If its different here, knowing how it works will help me figure out how to make it work (is that circular enough)?

Essentially, pack rothe won't need an NPC since they are the NPC. Anything in their pack stays there. Nothing too dissimular from what you'ld already be planning with your persistant housing; only the rothe are NPCs and not fixed locations.

At the end of your "rent" cycle, the gnome quartermaster who owns the rothes sends his flying monkey minions to take back the rothe; or you can pay to extend your renting of it. If you don't pay, flying monkeys and rothe disappear with the rothe who drops its contents on the ground.

Or, to compensate for the lack of flying monkeys on NWN, it could just be like blockbusters. If you don't give it back, you get a large debt. Of course, what could stop someone from just not paying that. So flying monkeys are good.

Flying monkeys are really essential to this plan. Blockbusters for example, can't come after you if you log out without paying your late fees. Flying monkeys come right away, and if you log out--well then all your shit is still on the rothe.

:( Blockbuster autosales the price of the movie, minus the rental fee, for jerks who keep it more than 7 days after it's due. Within 30 days of that you can still return it and the only charge is 2 bucks, which never increases. Jerks. Quit burning on Blockbuster!

Ummm why can't you get the rangers or druids an extra ability (make tham have 15 empathy first though) that can dominate any wild rothe and turn them into pack animals permantly? the rangers and druids can actually make some coin here. and only a druid can lead the rothe anywhere so increasing the uses for a ranger or druid. therefore making them a more RPABLE class. warriors are always included. druids are things for consideration rangers are always in also mages they are i believe a bit underused also. seriously how many monks fighters paladins, and barabarians you see walking around? (bards also) this i believe will mae the ranger and druid classes more versatile in rp ability. so if a person wants a rothe to help in advenutring he must find a ranger or druid. $$$$for druids and rangers. Though i am not entirely sure the results may that everyone is gonna want to be a druid or a ranger for this abilty...make the ranger or druid lvl 6 first then allow them this skill

Thomas_Not_very_wise (Something about Rangers and Druids dominating Rothés.)

Because that is exploitable. All I need is a friend that plays a druid/ranger, and I suddenly have a packrothé for free.

But I do like Oroborous' idea about packrothés, but maybe not as persistant storages (hereafter refered to as PS). From what I know, PS creates a lot of lag, and should be restricted to faction/special characters. The moment PS is open to all, the server will be laggy as hell. Oroborous pointed out that usually, PS is a chest, which on server reset transfers all it's contents to a NPC, but because the rothé is the NPC, the lag won't be that horrible. I don't know about this, so maybe it's plausible after all.

I think it would be cool to hire a rothé if I was going on a long trip. It would carry all my excessive gear, and would prove helpful if a comrade died. The rothé has a lot of hp's, but won't engage in any combat. If possible, it would be scripted to run away if attacked, so people can't use it as a meatshield. As stated before, a rothé can't climb ropes etc., so if it could be told to stay put, that would be great. But what happens if the server crashes?

I endorse the idea about Bags of Holding. They should be available, but hard to obtain/expensive. I've seen it work on another server as a craftable item, so I can't see why it shouldn't be plausible on EfU.

i think duids and rangers should be able to be the only ones who can control roth, yet, those, let us not forget are diffrent then the wild ones, and still need to be paid.

thus, if you want a roth, ocntact a druid so the roth could follow you.

alogen i think duids and rangers should be able to be the only ones who can control roth, yet, those, let us not forget are diffrent then the wild ones, and still need to be paid.

thus, if you want a roth, ocntact a druid so the roth could follow you.

I disagree. The rothés are domesticated, just like a mule, and everybody should be able to control is. Possibly by using the voiceset, as with henchmen in the OC's. Only the 'Attack' option would be disabled.

and still there is a limit to how you control a roth, as with any other animal. perhaps there should be a script where rothe wouldnt want to go to specific, perhaps too far from sacntruary (after all, they are domisticated, and used to sanctuary), places. this could be easily done, by tagging the desired places (those the rothe can be at) with some variable, and putting a script on the rothe to seek it.

then, you need a druid/ranger or changing the rothe at some waypoints/ feeding the rothe with some expiensive food (or cast spells to prevent the need of it, i wish the dms to think of it, so it wont be public and us guys/gals could fint it IG :D )

the food/spells/etc. wouldnt work for ever, and if a rothe got stuck in an undesired place it would stay still. fights will make it run the oppostie direction.

hmmm you could script the rothe to go to location but if ya want to go sommewhere in the middle of nowhere you could find a druid/ranger. and when guiding the rothe you will encounter several enemies. so when using rothe you enemy encounters go up and your chances of dieng increases two fold. this will keep it from being overused. and this will make the person get othre players into this and making some nice rp at the same time.

i dont think there should be extra enemies when you are going with rothe. in any way, rothe cant go stealthy, so if someone is comming, the rothe would be seen.

there should be capacity cap for the rothe. as well as some minuses compare to normal rothe (someone siad they are domistcated?)

perhaps two kind of rothe, domisticated and not domisticated.

the less domisticated ones will cost less, and be stronger, perhaps. less domisticated need a ranger/druid for them.

but with less domesticated they would have a tendancy to wonder even with a druid/ranger so you would have to use dominate animal every 2-5minutes or just random the time with a min of 1 min and a max of 8 minutes...Currently, with a limited number of storage chests, it's easy to supervise what's being stored; it would be much more difficult if there were hundreds of different "safe deposit boxes" filled with large numbers of items((sorry ARkov this is qouted undersatnd)) you could give them pick lockable for rouges so it ould encourage players to keep more valuable on hand