I get a bit tired of whenever someone says IC an insult to another character, they immediately try to jump at your neck and drag you to the arena to fight. It sounds a bit OOC that a person would want to fight anyone who insulted him (of course there are exceptions like Baneites or Zidane, but the majority wouldn't)

How do you feel about it?

I expect its pretty common amongst a violent group of rowdies who survive and thrive by fighting and killing enemies, and for whom a reputation as a feirce take no shit warrior is essential for the continuation of their livlihood.

But wouldn't they answer by insults first? If the argument escalates, agreed they might want to fight about it, but it often sounds like an ooc reason to pvp.

I have the complete opposite reaction. I think if people insult each other, going to the arena is often very apropriate. Most players are not gardeners frolicking through the meadow, they are adventurers in a VERY hostile and dangerous enviroment. They KILL THINGS for a living, risking their lives every day.

What I don't like is people who make threats and then magically back off when they realize the OOC possibility of real violence, or those who make poor exscuses for why they refuse to fight.

I did not like taking away characters challenge ratings, but this is one of the best advantages of it, less(but not no) meta gaming when you challenge others.

I think it should depend on the character who is insulted. If he's a hardass brawler, he'd like just punch him in the face there and then. Some of my characters did that. If he's a pansy character, maybe just say 'Yes, sir, I am a cur. I am sorry'. If a character responds to an insult with an invitation to the Arena, I think its pretty appropriate, given the setting.

I think Aekula means this situation

Commoner 1: Wow, that's a huge ugly face on top of your shoulders. Commoner 2: That's it! I'ma taking ya to the arena. Commoner 1: Uh... okay?

The situation (I think, 'cause I'm usually wrong) Aekula would like to see more is more arguing and insults before the situation escalates into an arena duel.

Wait. what?

Someone's character is insulted ICly, and somehow it's completely OOC that they want to beat the person up because of it? That's silly.

Tristan put it the way i meant it.

Right. Some characters are brash, boarish ruffians that will beat the piss and snot out of a character for the slightest word against them. Deal with this kind of stuff in character -- making it OOC just seems kind of unecessary. If your character is a sissy, emote *wets himself*, if your character is a hardass, beat the snot out of him or her in the arena. Keep this stuff in character and revel in the conflict!

In my opinion it's no different from the classic:

I -said- you'r yeller.

You callin me yeller? *hand goes to the pistol* You best step outside mister.

I'll third what's been said and say the arena is a great place, but I would also say that I think OOC thoughts carry them to the arena rather than maintaining perhaps IC behaviors and starting a bar brawl right then and there. I could see the lawfuls wanting to take it there, but let's go all you chaotic individuals--go on and swing first wherever you are.

It would depend what was said, After all i wouldn't care about any of my charchters that are being insulted, if it was someone else for instance when Teredrift was referred to as A "Whore" then i would challenge somone to a fight i feel it depends on what was said.

I had a character who you'd be lucky to LIVE after insulting him.

Does every 18 str, 12 dex, 16 con warrior out there really have the mind to fight back with words instead of fists? I also agree it's appropriate.

Chivalry developed in Europe as a response to just this problem, how do you deal with a class of heavily-armed, martially-trained men running around with no one to police them? In a situation where any argument can escalate to violence and violence will likely result in death, spontaneous brawls don't seem to be the likely norm. I would think insults and slights would build into rivalries, rivalries would give way to feuds and then feuds might result in duels or even assasinations. Someone who goes around challenging everyone who slights them to a duel is just that much likelier to meet his match sooner rather than later. In addition, I think some of these aggressive instincts would be tempered by occasional tournaments or gladiatorial games, where rivals could face each other in a sanctioned setting and if the feud is intense, maybe "accidentally" kill their rival even if the rules say the fight isn't to the death.

"What are dueling over, again!?"

"I forgot already, lay on you namby pamby!"

Dumas wrote a book called the Three Musketeers. Full grown men would roam around France trying to get insulted so they could start a duel. What a great book.

I approve of senseless violence.

Goodnight.

wcsherry ...if your character is a hardass, beat the snot out of him or her in the arena. Keep this stuff in character and revel in the conflict!

But, and my main problem with the entire Arena concept, is how are you responding to an insult in a hot tempered way, yet mild mannered enough to defer that anger to walk over to some proscribed place to do battle? Its entirely bogus and metagaming to the extreme.

Fact is this, there are just opportunistic wanna badasses that just want to PvP and will take ever chance to do so. In my next quoted piece the person talks about the 18 STR, 12 DEX and 16 CON warrior, that leaves what for INT? Yet this person is able to recognize and interpret any slight insult. Add with that <8 WIS he is able to calmly wait to enact vengence until he gets to the arena?

This isn't RP, this is bullshit facade. The arena is an artificial fake-civilized area where you can act like you are an adjusted and sane member of society but once inside the arena you can let loose your psychotic tendencies. Of course I have nothing against a psychotic half-orc with 18 STR, but there is no way anyone would let that person in the gates of their town.

ExileStrife Does every 18 str, 12 dex, 16 con warrior out there really have the mind to fight back with words instead of fists? I also agree it's appropriate.

Whereas the wordsmith apparently has no RP method in which to inact vengence? Nor the crafty and devious rogue, who can't slip some poison into your food, or knife you in your bed. The only avenue for character conflict is the "Arena". Where apparently half-oorcs would reign supreme by killing everyone in the city except the completely meek. That sounds like a good world.

I've had "conflicts" on other servers with dumb half orcs that shouldn't even fully understand common, yet can somehow pick out a veiled insult coming from the mouth of a charismatic and intelligent bard. These are for the crowd and half the joke is that the target is too dumb to perceive the it. But your typical "badass" needs to have 18 STR and metagame their own intelligence and english comprehension.

Arena's are completely metagaming for any insultive heat of the moment sort of conflict. And its mere existance gives power to false builds and false RP meant to create conflict and tear apart community. Even if that half-orc eventually meets his match and threathens the wrong person, they still overpower the vast bulk of the populace and would easily ruin the days of many noobs.

How many warriorsactually have these stats on the server? I've been playing sincethe very early days and I think I met one maybe two.

If they have 8 int and 8 cha or worse and they do such things the dm will quickly pick up on it and likely toss them a little token object that causes less xp gain. Also I'd point out 9/10 of these people with such stats that don't roleplay them do other stupid things that eventually get them banned.

That being said. I usually gauge my reaction on how much person has invested in a personality skill. If I know ooc "Okay this person a has 18 ranks in intimidate so I think my character would be intimidated by his/her threats" I will normally back down, same with persuade and bluff depent on my scores. This is just a personal rule for me and me alone nobody has to do that at all I just enjoy it.

Now in saying that if your 0 intimidate bard starts bad mouthing my 13 int 10 wisdom 10 cha fighter (I don't actually have any fighter at the moment but generally thats what your average efu fighter has)

I'd likely just challenge you to the arena and beat the shit out of you rather than playing word games which I know not being charismatic I can't win at.

The reason they challenge is usually because they can't beat you with words and you should ic'ly prey on this.

You outline how its metagaming in a worst case scenario but thats a rare scenario or maybe I just miss all these people who make such characters.

Eric Arena's are completely metagaming for any insultive heat of the moment sort of conflict. And its mere existance gives power to false builds and false RP meant to create conflict and tear apart community. Even if that half-orc eventually meets his match and threathens the wrong person, they still overpower the vast bulk of the populace and would easily ruin the days of many noobs.

Careful with the blatant generalization. Contrary to popular belief, there are ways to have very high CHA, definitely above average INT and average WIS and still kick the ass of 90% of the people who cross your way in an arena confrontation, to the point that the mere mention of an arena conflict gets people to back down. That is the point of even mentioning the arena for a few characters. Fighters know they won't win a confrontation of words, so they try to emasculate their opponents by proposing to take the fracas where they're at the top of their game. There is no 'metagaming' involved. Be careful how you toss that word around. And unless you are going to provide specific examples of the events you described above (which should not be posted here, and should, instead, make their ways to the hands of the DMs if they did indeed take place and you felt that you were wronged somehow) I don't see how you can claim that every 'offender' in question has the stats you described.

This is not bullshit facade. The fact that certain characters recognize that the arena is a place where you can make other characters pay for their insults in the most basic and primal manner is human nature. The desire to inflict pain on an enemy is characteristic of FR, and a common motif throughout the setting. This is a world of holy warriors and brutish thugs who most certainly don't fit the definition of 'civilized man' we have today. Western society has life and the respect for it as one of its highest values. An evil character - evil being a subjective and existent force throughout FR - has no place valuing someone else's life or their well being. They just want to beat the shit out of people. And 10 WIS, 10 INT and 10 CHA are more then enough to taunt the offender into attending an arena match and wait until you're in the place where combat is allowed to kick the shit out of them. 10-11 scores are the averages. Any average person will require a fair amount (and by fair I mean one short step of physical) of pressure before they strike a verbal adversary in front of a law enforcer. This doesn't have to do with the morals or ethics of the setting, but does take into consideration the fact that a 10/10/10 character understands and appreciates fully the consequences of doing something like this.

I would very much appreciate continuing this discussion, and if you have anything to add, please do so. Just make sure you revise your future statements for such gross generalizations. You may be considering someone who is actually roleplaying their character appropriately 'at fault' for metagaming what you perceive to be their stats. That's not very good, even if it is how you feel. A quick question to most any player, over tell, requesting a rough CHA score will solve the problem for one of the three stats. As for the other two, let the DMs deal with it. There are more than enough instances of characters who misrepresented their stats receiving their share of DM reprimand. Trust the team, and let them deal with it, and things will sort themselves out. In the case of a gross offence, send a report to the e-mail. They're quite timely.

- Kiaring

Don't worry, Figgy is around to make sure no one gets too cocky with their uber characters in the arena!

Sorry you misunderstood my post, I wasn't generalizing I was suggesting that I see no route for a 18,12,16 half orc that would lead to an arena. First of all, if at 9 INT the character can't speak properly, then at 8 or 6 they are well away from being able to speak and understand langauge, much less decipher some subtle or not so subtle insult (without an interpreter). And then even if they were, how would they respond with their <=8 WIS? That was the question, it wasn't a generalization, as any build like this has some very difficult questions to answer about how they can function in *any* society. The only time I've played characters like this I basically had to ignore most of the talk that went on around me and reacted with no more wisdom or intelligence than a young child. And nevermind the question of how others are RPing around said 6 CHA half-orc, whom you would think would be an outcast and/or destroyed on sight. Charisma isn't only visual. How could a society such as the one at EFU work on the principle of letting anyone enter, that is some sort of innocent until proven guilty? Wouldn't it be much wiser to disallow certain highly suspect individuals from entry?

Anyway, this didn't happen on this server but another RP oriented one, and it didn't even end up with a battle or anything it was just played out poorly. And in my opinion was played out merely to reach the end goal of the arena. Thus having an arena in the world rewards certain people (that wish to create conflict) and validates their lives. I think its an artificial scenario and metagaming.

Its impossible to judge in most cases anyway, as the info about peoples stats is not known.

Naga How many warriorsactually have these stats on the server? I've been playing sincethe very early days and I think I met one maybe two.

A whole lot. It shocks and depresses me.

I have those stats - but i do my best to really RP them. You won't see Lona solving differential equations.

Thrawn - is it the stats that depress you or the way they are played?

dude this got old before it began

"If they have 8 int and 8 cha or worse and they do such things the dm will quickly pick up on it and likely toss them a little token object that causes less xp gain"

I'd like to reply that we considered having these tokens, but we decided against them. We'd rather just help you to learn to roleplay better than artificially penalize bad roleplay. =)

-Cross

me? ...I dont like PVP and i try to avoid.

my char? ... She would think that fight is a waist of time since all she cares is get out and go back surface. But depends on the char goals and RP.

I would like to chime in on this issue with a few very eneral items.

A. All of the worlds i have played in require OOC consent for PvP. If you really want to avoid it, send a tell. You will be amazed how cool people are OOC. If someone persists, this is something you should report to a DM.

B. Feklahr is a half-orc barbarian with 19 STR, 15 DEX, 12 CON, 10 INT, 12 WIS, 8 CHA. I play him kind of like a Klingon, a warrior with a sense of honor. A weakling spewing insults does not threaten his honor. Another warrior spewing insults would have a 50/50 chance of either it turning into a drunken rage of hilarious insults or a beating in the streets. If someon ejust says "Let's take it to the Arena!", Feklahr would likely say "Get fucked."

Just a little insight on my part.