The discussion of removing the visual spell effects from "buff" spells has sparked a discussion in IRC:spell casters usually do have a method at their disposal to determine what spells are active on an intended target through the use of detect magic. In truth, detect magic can only give the school of active spells so we would be bending the rules slightly.

My suggestions is a detect magic tool (like the detect evil tool) for spell casters that would prompt a spellcraft check for the user in order to determine what spell effects are active on a target. The check would be DC 15 + spell level and be respective to the type of magic used by the caster. Meaning, arcane (sorcerers and wizards) users can only detect arcane buffs, clerics can only detect clerical buffs, etc..

The tool could also be used to find the spell effects on placables. This could of course help in DM plots, stories, RP... etc..

Also, ability bonuses (WIS) or feats (SF/GSF: Divination, Knowledge domain powers) could modify the check. To make the ability more challeging, it could maybe detect only 1 random buff per round off the target (with a possible INT modifier, i.e. number of additional buffs revealed equaling the modifier), and the wizard would have to perform a concentration check to get the valuable information.

It would be interesting even out of an actual battle: e. g. a spellguard suddenly halting and focusing on an arcanist passerby, trying to detect the nature of eventual mischiefs the PC is up to by detecting the nature of the protections.

For the sake of the spellguard, it would be a useful tool.

An interesting suggestion, but I would prefer to see this stay closer to the canon version of the spell. The caster should detect the presence or absence of magic, the number and strength of the strongest aura, and only detect the school of magic with a Spellcraft check. This would keep the focus of this spell toward detecting the presence of magic and determining its level of power, rather than making it a tool to figure out what specific spell a person or item has had casted on them. I would much rather see a spellcaster warn his party that the area they just entered is swarming with powerful magic, than a bard stopping someone and asking why they had Resist Elements casted on them.

That being said, unlike a ranger's tracking or a paladin's detect evil, Detect Magic is a spell and not an ability. Personally, unless it can be scripted as such, I would prefer not to have it in the setting.

Mr. Cheez-It That being said, unlike a ranger's tracking or a paladin's detect evil, Detect Magic is a spell and not an ability. Personally, unless it can be scripted as such, I would prefer not to have it in the setting.

This made me recall a post made by Fish a while back, where he mentioned that it was possible to hook the removal of memorized spells to a dialogue option. Perhaps something similar could be used here, to give mages a crafting dialogue option to cast Detect Magic, and remove a spell of the appropriate level. And perhaps, if there's an useless spell of that cirlcle, it could be substituted for Detect Magic (like Weapon Focus: Club for Weapon Enchanting on Arabel, for example). This way, things such as memorizing and acquiring the spell wouldn't be an issue, either.

I think in this case, canon is not quite relevent I am affraid to say, like it or not. We are lacking an armoury of divniations which are not feasible in nwn for whatever reason and thus bieng by removing spell visual effects, we lose even more worth of the nwn version of the divination, therefore I proposed this in IrC.

Count the number of Orisons/Cantrips a Druid/Cleric/Wizard/Sorc has...

Allow the use of "Detect Magic" to be 1/orison. This limits the ability to the ammount of cantrips/orisions the caster has.

Detect magic: An extending sphere around the caster draws forth the powers of magic, allowing the caster to centre his concentration on the direction of the strenght of magical fields.

This means.

Like ranger tracking, the caster detects from his point, the Strenght and Direction (ONLY) of magical fields near him. This could be players or objects marked with a relevent magical strenght. With players, it checks to see if the player has any buffs, and counts them. Not sure How this can be done but I'm sure it can. Less buffs = less strenght. Someone with one buff is not detected.

For instance.

Four Spellcasters standing around the detecting cleric. One is invisible only. One is wearing 4 "buffs". One is carrying a magic sword out and has four buffs on one of which is invisibility. One is a spellguard glowing like a christmas tree.

The cleric use detect magic. The invisible spellcaster only has one buff and is considered too weak to be detected in the background magic of the underdark.

The spellcaster wish four buffs on is detected as a medium strenght "signal" and his direction is given, this case it is North. "You feel the pull of something a bit more than weak magic from the North"

The spellcaster with the sword is detected. His sword counts as two aditional "buffs" (+1 ab +1 dmg). You feel a strong pull of magic from the south east. Note, no distance, only direction.

The Spellguard is not detected due to spellguard robes.

Additionally, the spellcaster detects a strong magical field from the west. This happens to be a door with a powerful magical lock, and the door is marked "magical field_ strong". The spellcaster doesnt know What it is, if it is an object or player, just that it existst.

"OMg That is teh Poweful".

Actually no it's not. Only used in the right places will it be useful, else you just get a hundred false readings.

What also limits it is you only get the ability per each orison, as if you are casting the spell from memorised. This is stored from each use as a variable, which eventually renders cantrips useless that are memorised. See Charm Person, by me for how that works.

Yes you all cry, this breaks the pnp rules. So what, alot of spells do. But it can be worked around. You can always throw in a spell that counters this, and marks the caster/wearer undetectable.

Personally I think this is a very good compromise and remember, cantrips cap at about, 6 I think, or 5 anyway.

Additionally, diviners can get bonus uses, so SF Divination gives +1 use, GSF gives another +1 (+2 total).

One issue that I have with that way of "faking" spells is that you don't have to prepare it beforehand. That makes it vastly more versatile than it otherwise would be.

Also, storing variables to represent "actual" spell uses is extremely inelegant.

Perhaps add something then that says "next rest, prepare X ammount of X spell" in your craft convo.

Its all very messy, and complicated for an ability that really isn't "lacking".

Generally, its obvious that in a fight your foe has some protections up--just dispel and move on. When you see the fighter swing for 20 damage a round, assume something is buffing his STR and dispel. When the wizard appears unharmed by a fireball, assume he's warded.

No spell necessary, just eyeballs. Luckily, we got lots of those.

ALL HAIL THE HIVE MOTHER

ALL HAIL THE HIVE MOTHER!

Fish I think in this case, canon is not quite relevent I am affraid to say, like it or not.

Fish Yes you all cry, this breaks the pnp rules.

The original suggestion was to give spellcasters an ability that would allow them to determine specific spells present on a person or object. Your version would use a spell to detect magical fields and their strengths, which is exactly how this type of detection is done in D&D with the spell Detect Magic. Therefore, I am a little confused as to why you made these comments.

The suggestion is a good one, but a little cumbersome to implement a basic spell. Since this cantrip was not included in NwN, if a player wishes to roleplay a certain situation that may require their character to detect the presence of magic beyond the limitations of the game, they can simply ask a DM for help.

Can't you just give them the ability like the paladin's detect evil or the ranger's tracking, only that detect magic is just 1/day. Is this possible?

Sure, a mage gets one more CANTRIP. But I never understood the 4 cantrips max rule anyway, when divine casters get heaps. So to give the arcane people this one wouldn't tip the balance I think. The ability itself should be close to the D&D version, and not list buffs.

I had a chat to arkov and the idea itself is sound, but it's a bit too infeasible really.

Cast Dispels/Breaches and be done with it. :wink:

Fish I had a chat to arkov and the idea itself is sound, but it's a bit too infeasible really.

I can see how the replace spell slot and all can be difficult, but just a 1/day ability as well?