This kinda scares me. You can get around +35 ab by level 5 (Not far off that at 3) and by 7 we're talking 40-45 ab.

True strike really needs to go. If not I forsee a ton of elf or tymoran/beshban clerics on the way.

Uhm. No?

All they get is True Strike when they can cast first level spells. It doesn't stack, and it still only lasts 9 seconds. Sorcerers already have this. They can cast true strike 3 times a day. in armor (It has no Somatic component).

It's not imbalanced at all.

Sorcerers can't get +20-25 ab at level 7 though without true strike.

Oh and taking a sorcerer level to get this spell at least cripples afighters ab down a by round -1 or -2 bab and will have delay their second attack. Which ispretty much the same as cleric bab although clerics still get the other buffs. (bulls, bless, aid, magic weapon, divine favour, divine might etc etc.)

Yes. I definitely get my character concept ideas based on how much AB they can get. Getting the highest AB possible is a good IC goal in my opinion, and it will create a lot of great RPing. I feel obligated to make a Tymoran cleric with only this single tweak in mind.

Im with Naga on this one. Thought I'm sure if there is a god I am losing XP points for bad RP as I write, since we are never supposed to agree... however, I cannot but side with him here. True strike is way brokeny broken. EfU's older evil sister server than cannot be named was ruined by this spell. 1/2 of all PvP's started with steath or inviso, speed, then true strike and knock down. It is almost uncounterable. Since no amount of discipline can keep you up, no AC will keep you unhit and no spell stops KD. The opponent can often get four hits in before the opponent can get up, more if they are duel wield or have two attacks. Then they still usually have a second round to hit with a TS/KD. I've seen characters with 80 hps go down in two rounds. There are many powerful combinations of rorts in NWN, but this is the most boring, and the most broken.

I had really admired the fact that EfU had really restricted the pots of TS. They are like hens teeth, and players cannot make them. This really makes PvP more fun, because people oft get away from the best laid plans, since no KD is guarenteed. The last thing I think the game balance needs is another perk for the strongest class in the game. If you must give it to them, make it a lvl 3 or 4 spell so they are giving up something useful at least....

Naga's got no idea what he's talking about on this one.

True Strike is good, I love it-but its not that great. I've used a cleric with True Strike granting domain on another server, the character wasn't that insane or even moderately so. You still have to cast True Strike, you can't extend it, and it has a very short duration.

I'm not sure where you get +45 AB short of someone actually casting the spell on themselves twice after quaffing a potion of speed. However, I know Mandarin was a cleric/fighter/wizard and True Strike was his happy wizard spell which I coupled with Improved Power Attack. It was luscious, for one combat. PvM its not over balanced at all.

PvP I can see the benefits, but all the same its not that incredibly insane. Although, the part I'd see limited is the lasting 9 seconds; the spell should be used up on your first attack or next action--rather than lasting for several. Even then though, the spell is already easy to get ahold of to anyone who wants to trade +1 AB through all his combats for a +20 AB several times a day...which for some concepts/builds is a very good trade off.

Agreed with Oro. True Strike as a cleric domain spell is powerful but not overpowered as some people here seem to think.

It might interest you to know that I voiced the very same concern before the new domains went public -- although I wasn't that worried about it -- but there are several reasons why things are the way they are.

1) The Luck domain has to be consistent with CoA's luck domain so people can pick it on either server. For that reason, the EfU team couldn't change it even if they wanted to. 2) The Elf domain is accessible mostly -- possibly even exclusively, haven't bothered to check -- to worshippers of the Seldarine, which are rarely evil. (Clerics of drow deities have access to the Drow domain instead.) This highly limits the PvP application of the spell. 3) The biggest issue with the spell is when it's used in conjuction with stealth or invisibility. Neither are generally accessible to clerics, except via multiclassing or some other domains (narrowing down the list of dangerous builds even further) or potions/wands (which have a rather short duration, unsuitable for eg hunting a PC). Suffice to say, I for one trust that the DMs will be able to monitor those few PCs with the potential to abuse True Strike.

Dopson Yes. I definitely get my character concept ideas based on how much AB they can get. Getting the highest AB possible is a good IC goal in my opinion, and it will create a lot of great RPing. I feel obligated to make a Tymoran cleric with only this single tweak in mind.

Your right! Just like most of the severs fighters start with 16-17 str to get maximuim benifits from the range of str and ab they can get!

As for not knowing what I'm talking about. I had a cleric with +25 ab on this server, grant it he had tons of strength due to his face but less strength only makes 3-4 in the difference of ab.

I'm clearly mistaken on this point though.

Clerics can quite easily get ABs in the +20 and upward range on level 7 and above. With ABs like that, the 9 second difference of another +20 to make it +45 doesnt matter. With +25 AB, you can hit anything, everytime.

It is my personal dream to KD a Dragon though, so I may be biased.

However, with +45, the only thing you need to do is click improved knockdown and you have already won a fight.

--And if I understand dicipline checks correctly, you would need to have 25 decipline to have a chance of rolling a 20 to resist the knockdown.

(self edited) - nevermind.

Naga, have you made a powerbuild yet? :)

As I understood it, this thread was about Domain discussion, not finger pointing. Unless you've something useful (or borderline amusing) to add, then don't.

While it is "merely" a level One spell, I think it might unbalance things a tad, however fitting. True Strike is one of those powerful spells that counterbalances things for Arcane spellcasting classes. Clerics in NWN already get access to a stack of spells that they shouldn't have, all at once at least.

Please limit your comments to the topic being discussed and refrain from making disparaging remarks about other players.

Naga he had tons of strength due to his face

Tee hee.

(Sorry.)

Seriously, if it becomes a huge issue on the server, we might change it. But for now, let's enjoy the awesome new content Arkov has added to the server to make it totally sweet!

Thanks, Arkov, you rock!

He sure does. Its been said before, but dayaamn, how cool is it?

We can't change it even if we wanted to, in order to maintain compatability with CoA. It's strong but there are counters to this spell believe it or not. The main issue with true strike is when characters have stacks of 30+ potions of TS and 4+ attacks/round. Clerics can already stack their AB absurdly high, and I won't get into the various tactics that allow you to negate this issue.

But yes, it is strong. Very strong. I don't think it will break anything though.

Anyone who's using those spells and feats in the way described above is sort of missing the point I think. There's a thin line between a useful tactic and exploiting the rules. If you're goal is to be able to kill another PC in one shot you probably aren't providing them with much fun RP-wise through the PvP and should probably get a talking to from a DM about your reasons for playing on a roleplaying server.

Though this was on another server some of us know...this Illustrates the point rather well...

Sorry..that was my post above ;) I did forget to mention that Nefear was but 6th level at the time that was taken (maybe 7th, but I don't think so). It is an awesome one shot wonder if it works, but a hit like that is rarely landed...but when it does land, it's awesome.

For the nuts and bolts types..that was barbarian rage + Imp power Att + TS with a STR buff maybe

How is a kill in this way different from PhK?

Hold Person?

Or any other number of ways to kill someone?

Even the damage on that screenshotted hit could be duplicated by mere chance with the right buffs.

Rather, if a player is exploiting this-let him be punished rather than seeking a major nerf on the spell True Strike? Beyond that, there are still some counters against True Strike which are pretty easy to use.

Against monsters, it's acceptably powerful - you sacrifice one round (casting the spell) to guarantee hits.

Against PCs, it isn't as if there aren't enough true strike items around to get one. As always, PVP is about OOC initiative, far more than powerbuilds. So it's best to balance the domains for questing, and True Strike is a sub-par questing spell.

-Cross

Dispell? Can TS be dispelled? Though walking around in a paranoid state of mind, under the assumption that every blade weilding person is "pumped" and out to get you, forcing you to have a complete spell slot devoted to dispell for your counter to the TS; is kind of dour.

Uh. Running away for 9 seconds is a pretty good dispel to True Strike.

In my opinion (and this is through practice as well), true strike isn't THAT effective on any character class other than a monk. The attack of opportunities you incur usually aren't worth it, and anyone smart that knows their opponent has true strike will, if they miss their AOO, just run away for 9 seconds.

I don't know if it's even possible, but the thought I basically had if True Strike becomes a problem.

I think getting the automatic hits is fine, as that is really the purpose of the spell. This issue comes with discipline based attacks.

So what I've considered, is that while you are under the effects of true strike, discipline calculations of targets would get +20 negating the effect to TS.

Like I said, not even sure if it is even possible, and it isn't necessary at this point, but thought I'd throw it out there.