I may be alone when I say this, but I think when higher levels are reached, and this quest is done, it's simply too easy. At levels below seven, this quest is incredibly challenging, a rush, and very intense. Goblin Assassins are scary as hell, and the hail of arrow fire coming down from the walls is hellish.

When level 7 is breached, however, and +2 vestments are readily available from clerics -- Improved Invisibility and Stoneskin are around from nearby wizards -- and all the fighters (even multi-classed ones) have two attacks, this quest is a bit too easy. The melee monsters around will hardly hit the buffed fighter, and the casters only seemingly spam cantrips against the party.

What I think would spice things up a bit would be to add some more challenging goblin casters. Not ones that cast cantrips, but perhaps something more challenging, like Fireballs, and Scint. Spheres, dispels, and the like. Anyhow, this quest has always seemed like the easiest one available to high level PC's. Discuss!

ive had soxs roxored on that job when working with 7-8ers. it can be quite hard. i dont know if its been tweaked since then (like 2 months ago) but it can be a real pita. also i havent the foggiest idea how to go about fixing it, so i couldnt if i wanted to. but hey if the players want things to be harder, im down.

It's been a tough quest to balance right, but some high CR casters might be nice.

I have had my party raped every time I have tried this quest... most of those attempts were with lvl 7's or 8's.

We had clerics and mages with imp invis.

Vesa I have had my party raped every time I have tried this quest... most of those attempts were with lvl 7's or 8's.

We had clerics and mages with imp invis.

I've practicly run through this whole quest as a level 7 fighter with just stoneskin and the occasional haste. It's certainly less difficult at higher levels.

I think the balance issue is in the number of PCs that are along. The quest seems easiest when the party is small. The more PCs along the more rough it is. It seems a breeze with a handful and can get to be a nightmare when you take a horde along (like the time we had 8 with a DM ported 9th player added in).

Also, player skill factors into this one quite a bit. I have seen god plans, bad plans and bad ones that went good and good gone ugly. One thing you can never figure for is pure bad luck...and it happens, even to the best of plans. Coordination is a godsend at the walls.

A few tougher casters may add a bit of fun to the mix, but for the unwary that may raise the casualty numbers to an all time high. I'm not opposed to it, but it may doom whole lower level parties. A balance factor may be to make it avoidable; perhaps a side room? The balance could be better than average loot chest for those that brave the room.

Sedarine Also, player skill factors into this one quite a bit. I have seen god plans, bad plans and bad ones that went good and good gone ugly.

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Coordination is a godsend at the walls.

A few tougher casters may add a bit of fun to the mix, but for the unwary that may raise the casualty numbers to an all time high. I'm not opposed to it, but it may doom whole lower level parties. A balance factor may be to make it avoidable; perhaps a side room? The balance could be better than average loot chest for those that brave the room.

As I've only been part of exactly two competent parties to ever attempt this quest, I do think the tougher casters would reduce my sneaky ball of hate to a mere angry cinder.

While I can't relate to players who find this quest too easy, I understand that challenges, no matter how uber you happen to be, are important.

If tougher casters get added, please just let the playerbase know that the quest has been 'adjusted.'

This quest is hard, especially at higher levels.

While a pure fighter with a cleric and mage around who buff him with every spell possible might find it easy, other members of the party will find it tough. Rogues and mages for example, with their relatively low HP and AC, can, and will get (unless very competent) decimated on this quest, by rogues and assasins who have nice spot/listen.

A goodly amount of Assasins and Stormtroopers will be spawned in a 7+ party. And ANY encounter inside the fort which is not totally thought out and planned will probably result in people dying. I've been in parties consisting of high-level PCs played by players who know the mechanics like the back of their hands, and still the party gets completely destroyed.

I do agree that the goblin mages (bar the Enchanters, who can blind/deafen you) are pretty pathetic in terms of danger and damage, but the assasins and stromies more than make up for this. And, espcecially of late, there might not be too many high-level mages/clerics around to quest with, to shell out stoneskins, improved invises and magic vestments.

That said, I enjoy the quest because its damn hard. Nothing so boring as doing a static that is effortless. However, if it somehow deemed too easy, and thus altered, I'm with alstromeria in that I'd like to be told beforehand.

Name one quest that isn't easy with a good party, Sherry. (AKA: Buffed Up Fighters (tm) )

I personally think the issue is the level range, and that decreasing the max level would solve the problem. It's extremely difficult to balance at both the low and high ends of a quest, and that is the reason for level limits. This quest is a prime example of why that is needed.

Anthee Name one quest that isn't easy with a good party, Sherry. (AKA: Buffed Up Fighters (tm) )

I still think Orog Fort, Trolls, Sewertown are decidely more difficult!

Anyhow, I think the quest is still challenging, just that it needs casters that are in the range of the CR of the PC's that are storming the walls.

I agree the casters could use a little more umpf but I'd vote for less stormtroopers in that case.

I third or fourth the need for some beefed up casting, it will make all the difference.