I am simply adding a suggestion to the rules/regulations of the site regarding the PvP section. If you get mad at work or school in real life you do not kill the guy. Player kill does not always need to be the result of PvP. Beating the crap out of the guy and laughing at him would suffice in most occasions. I am not saying this is a must on all occasions, but it seems to be common courtesy to me and I would just suggest that it be added to the rules for the less considerate people to see.

PvP is always a touchy issue. Some despise it, some don't mind, and others love it.

Ultimately though, this server is full PvP, which represents the realism which EfU is all about (as far as realism can be interpreted, in a DnD setting). If you create a character, from the word go he/she can die at any moment. The Underdark, and even Sanctuary for that matter, is a very, very dangerous place.

In the end, it all realy comes down to the IC motivations of your characer's enemy PCs as to whether they kill you or not. An example:

Your character and another venture out into the Underdark, far from Sanctuary, on some task or another. Spiders attack, and before they are killed, the other PC gets poisoned and suffers a wound, leaving him at injured. The PC gets annoyed, and starts shouting out demands for you to heal him, otherwise he'd kill you as he did the spiders.

Now, If you created a CE half-orc who was brought up with his brutal kinsmen, taught to worship Gruumsh, and looked upon other races as his lessers, its very IC for him to pick fights, and even kill people in cold blood. So he gets his axe and splits the injured person who dared order him about in half, without so much as a flicker of disgust or regret.

If you create, say, a LE character, and put him in the same situation, the distinct difference between the two alignments will come into play. Unlike a CE character, an LE one has some code of behaviour or set of values which he beleives in. Now, while he may actually still be evil, he might have scruples about killing people who are injured in cold blood, whereas the CE villain almost certainly wouldnt. Then again, never killing in cold blood might *not* be amongst his personal set of values. So the LE villain may or may not kill in this situation. Whether he does is entirely up to the character's beleifs and motivations.

A CN character might beat the shit out of him, knock him out, and take a bit of gold, telling the other PC when he came to that if he ever ordered or threatend him again he'd follow through, for good.

Put a CG character in the same situation, and things again would be different. As a good character, killing, especially someone who is obviously in pain already, is not on. But, considering that a threat was made, the chaotic nature of the character might also kick in. He might heal the wounded man, and then might tell him that he doesn't take kindly to threats, and that if he issued another one, he'd be dueling him post-haste.

Of course, these are just examples of what *might* happen. There are heaps of other factors which determine what a PC would do in any situation besides alignment. Class, equipment, patron deity, IG experiences, history and background, abilties....heaps!

Again, I reiterate that its a completely IC thing as to whether your character is killed or not by another PC. I usually play evil characters, but depending on the character, and the situation, he/she may or may not kill another PC, given the chance.

Moreover, dying to a PvP death (and thus permadeathing) shoudn't always be looked on with distaste. Three of my characters I've played on this server, all of which I put much effort and many hours into, all died PvP deaths. In all cases, and particularly so in one case, it was really an enjoyable experience. Fitting ends to my PC's careers, the consequence of awesome IG events and RP.

Having said that, there are definetly situations where PvP is simply wrong and becomes borderline greifing. These situations are almost universally a case of OOC greed and thus a sharp veer away from the ICness of what a character would really do. An example:

A LG character stumbles across the poisoned PC from the above scenario, out of sight of anyone. Seeing an opportunity, he then simply walks up and point-blank shoots an arrow into his face, killing the other PC. He then loots everything and leaves.

The example is admittedly amongst the most blatant you could think up, but I think it pointedly illustrates that the second a player sacrfices thinking of what his character would/should do ICly things turn bad.

Thankfully, you would of course be hard-pressed to find anything like that happen on the server, as the vast majority of the playerbase are mature RPers, or newer players well on their way to becoming so. In the end though, this is a game, and some people will always be wankers. Its incidents and players like that, who ultimately only make up like 2% of the total player population, who give rewarding things like PvP a bad name.

So to recap, whether or not you die to another player's character should absolutely hinge on that particular character's IC motivations, beliefs and personality, and nothing else. There *will* be cases where pure OOC greed leads to greifing, but fortunately, our DM team seems to be pretty damn good at catching people like that. I for one have not seen cases like that yet on this server, which is great. My advice to you if you think that the PvP incident you were involved in smacks of OOCness in any way would be to get in contact with a DM, either through the /dm channel, a PM on the forums or even IRC.

Sorry for the rant. :?

-MadCads

Don't apologise. I read every word.

I agree in the fact that PKing is acceptable on a full PvP game, but my point still stands. I know that there are many cases in which killing another PC is xetremly valid. To prove my poitn though, I will use your example of the poison.

The two guys are bitter enemies. The poisoned on is LG and the one without the poison id CE. Basiacally, they loath eachother.

of course there are varying factors in this, but in reality it would be far crueller to leave them there, poisoned out in the middle of nowhere after knocking them out. Also though, this gives the character a legitamate chance to escape.

Now, I am not saying that the CE character -has- to let him live. All I am saying is that, if your character has no reason other than being mad about some petty situation, only the insane would kill them.

I am not trying to second-guess the DMs or even other PCs, but to me, it is a simple thought of " Why?"

Just ask yourself that before you kill another PC and, if you have a valid reason, go ahead.

I also enjoy playing evil characters though I haven't tried it on this server, but even as a CE character I would not kill everyone I was left alone with. That isn't CE that is insanity.

My thanks again, Willdcatt2 8)

P.S. Sorry for the return rant

I detect a real streak of Dr Moriaty running through you there :D however being deviously cruel can backfire - the person can escape and come after you.

There are many reasons why PvP is valid - in general especially PvP assassins - all my characters seem to attract them these days - doging them can be a lot of fun :P

There is no reason why a good character can't kill another player esepcially after they have been attacked - no reason at all for them not to kill of the attacker and remove the threat permanently.

One of the hard things about PvP is that you have to dispose of the body in such a way it cannot be raised and you normally need to contact a DM to assist in that - if you just hide the body it can be found and the person can be raised.

In the end just keep it real and play true to your character.

Cheers Nestek

Generally I allow people to live when I can. But this goes both ways. When an evil vilian could have crushed you and instead decides to let you live instead of sending you to that fugue plain and getting some sweet extra gold potions etc.

Maybe its a good idea to not retaliate right away? Or perhaps not run all over the place screaming the news to everybody and anyone. I'd say the fear of this is what stops most people from letting people live in alot of situations.

Now in saying that I've witnessed people whom on the oppisite side, want to kill their victem for fear of retribution. To them I will say this. Your a villian, a living enemy is FAR better than a dead one. If you can find a way for them to stay alive do it. It will come back to haunt you yes. But this is what villians DO.

I mean if you just kill them it gets sweeped under the cover you get 10 evil points and you go back to same ole same ole I'm evil muahaha but you'll never know how evil I am.

Now if you let that person live they'll usually try to stop you in some way, possibily in numbers. This is a good thing, having groups of people working together to stop you is what being a villian is all about.

In saying that this should go both ways also. Good should'nt always kill the evil guy and loot him. Infact if you plan to go after an evil guy, don't bring a group of 20 paladins. Be fair about it. Brings three or four to allow him a chance to escape or subdue any minions he may have. It all about ooc niceness.

This is just my opinion. Its the way I like to play and I think its fair and makes things fun for me and others.

Well anyone thats my two cents.

I'm pretty sure our PvP policy makes it clear already that FD kills should only be done for very justifiable, IC motivations already.

Perhaps I simply missed it then. My apologies. No offence intended.

-Willdcatt2 8)

Yeah, just backing up what Naga said. Be cool about PvP. Don't get 5 lvl 8 Evil warriors and a mega buffer who you're friends with to kill a lvl 5 Paladin who killed your partner in Necromancy

It's a LOT funner if you hire a sneaky lvl 5 NE rogue to kill that guy. Not only does it give a lot more RP value, you make it fair on the Paladin.

How would you like it if he got 5 lvl 8 Good warriors and a Mega Buffer on you? Although you're evil, don't play the "I'll sit here and watch all my mega powered minions kill them". It's just not fair.

PvP is often a quite emotional event, especially if the character involved is a favourite or long running. If the ending is memorable, then all's well and good in my mind.

I do however find it unsatisfying when characters are assassinated by overwhelming forces, usually when the target is weakened as well. While this might make perfect sense in game, it really leaves no option for the targetted character except permadeath. Where's the fun in that?

The growing habit of completely destroying bodies also locks out any chance of bringing that character back, which can often (if possible or successful) add to the experience and fun, if played properly.

Of course, this is all within the rules and I understand that, but I still personally feel that some sort of chance should be given in situations like this.

Was that a rant? I didn't mean it to be... :wink:

Magic_salesman_shadow Yeah, just backing up what Naga said. Be cool about PvP. Don't get 5 lvl 8 Evil warriors and a mega buffer who you're friends with to kill a lvl 5 Paladin who killed your partner in Necromancy

It's a LOT funner if you hire a sneaky lvl 5 NE rogue to kill that guy. Not only does it give a lot more RP value, you make it fair on the Paladin.

How would you like it if he got 5 lvl 8 Good warriors and a Mega Buffer on you? Although you're evil, don't play the "I'll sit here and watch all my mega powered minions kill them". It's just not fair.

Actually magic salesman I have seen a party with a level 9 cleric, a level 8 cleric a level 8 fighter a group of others varrying from 6-7 going good after one or two evil people.

So thats why i thought I'd bring it up :)

DMs, I've seen SEVERAL characters go off and attack other PCs in very public places and obviously without a DM present.

It is then attempted to be RPed by the vet characters that are there...especially the good ones. This is a stretch.

Last night a character named Tyrone was attacking well-established vet characters. Over several minutes. Obviously a DM was not there, and it's not realistic at all that a Watchman would stand and do nothing. So there the PCs are left with a problem....do they RP the situation and follow the rules when someone is OBVIOUSLY not following them? And acting completely irrationally? Then logging after the incident to boot....*sighs*

I suggest that unknown characters that are attacking others IN PUBLIC with weapons on full damage modes should be fair game to other PCs. It's just not plausible that citizens in a very harsh, combat oriented environment would patiently stand around and watch their friends be attacked.

particulary if they attacked, were subdued, healed by a PC, then picked up a weapon and attack again. That second attack should be an OOC whistle to exterminate the idiot. Particulary where there is NO RP, NO DM present due to the constraints on ya'lls time, and the character is obviously not following PvP protocal.

Actually, I would enjoy seeing apparently insane, homicidial characters being dealt frontier justice as a lesson to others and to add to the "rough and tumble" feel of the genre.

Sucks to RP that kind of crap. Ever see the scene from Roadhouse where the town locals that were being terrorized by the resident baddie all blew him away? Then they hid the guns, and presented a united front of "I didn't see anything, you see anything?" Good shit.

Ah FWIW.

gwydion

Play your char, and do what he would do. Do not try to stand up and punish griefers alone, take a screenshot and send it to the DMs. Believe me, this way the consequences for those are well delivered and quick.

If they attack infront of a guard thats bullshit, get a screenshot send it to a dm via irc or email and they'll be stoned/ exiled before you know it. ((if the situation merits))

Generally I will only attack someone if there is a dm or pc guard ((member of faction I'm standing near i.e tigereye for lower or watchman)) available to oberserve.

If you attack someone and forget to call for a dm, stop, maybe even heal the person or get a dm an say "Sorry I forgot to call one of you I iniated pvp with X in X and I just hit him with my axe infront of X" if theres no answer heal him up and just go on like it did'nt happen. This is the best way to deal with such things IMHO

If that happens, you contact a DM and we ban the player. If it's blatant griefing, then you may of course respond.