It is official from Bioware that 1.68 will be the last patch.

I know that at the moment, I'm not really keen on NWN2 for a PW community. I expect that until March/July '07 it won't really be feasible to even have something high quality up (suspicion only but it grows stronger the more I hear).

Which means that by this point, new players aren't really going to be coming to PWs. The community as it exists now, is more or less all there is. New players are unlikely to pick up any more additions of NWN in stores and start fresh. Those people we have are likely already pretty 'hard core' about this hobby.

Which brings me to my point, knowing nothing new is coming out of Bioware after the next patch. How many people still object to .haks for new custom content?

I know some of the objections: "I don't want to spend the time downloading them!" to which I reply "Well, you spent hours and hours downloading patches already to play. There isn't much difference."

"New players won't find us as easily to join!" Reply, "What new players, by the post-1.68 stage new players won't be picking up the game. Anyone still around this long is die-hard enough to download a .hak if you make it easy."

Oroborous Which brings me to my point, knowing nothing new is coming out of Bioware after the next patch. How many people still object to .haks for new custom content?

I don't.

If it does happen, it won't be for a while, but I'd still be curious what sort of content additions people would be interested in seeing.

So if anyone wants to propose anything, feel free!

I know people say CEP has a lot of unneeded shit in it, but I think adding CEP and using it right would really diversify the environment.

Subraces! Subraces subraces subraces and spells. Spells spells spells and CEP heads!

PrC's. Basically, I'd love to see all canon PnP stuff implemented, as long as it can be done in a smooth way.

In the interests of keeping the module lean, adding copious amounts of stuff that has little to no chance of being used, ever, is a terrible idea (CEP).

I think adding haks should not be approached with a kid in a toy shop attitude. Stuff that is really terribly good and will add huge amounts to the server should be considered, stuff like (and I know no one has suggested this, though I think it can be found in the CEP) oriental tilesets and kimonos and samurai swords so that you can pretend to be an anime character isn't really that useful.

Ladocicea kimonos

:D Can we just get those?

Ladocicea samurai swords

ummm...we already have samurai swords in EfU. What do you think katanas are? That is the proper name for a samurai sword you know. Katanas are not common but I have seen them.

CEP is crap, please dont bring it in.

Menelanna

Ladocicea samurai swords

ummm...we already have samurai swords in EfU. What do you think katanas are? That is the proper name for a samurai sword you know. Katanas are not common but I have seen them.

Yes, but there are actual samurai sword models in the CEP... or something like that.

No, I'll agree with Lado on this one; no point in adding rideable horses when we won't even use them anyways (that was an example!). Stuff that might in fact be relevant to the Underdark (ie., not rideable horses) could be worth considering.

Much in the same way I don't think PrC's should be added anytime soon. I only know of one character that actually had a PrC, and that character isn't played anymore - why even consider adding more (this goes for subraces, too)?! Now, stuff like spells and feats might be worth considering, but I don't think I'd go much farther than that.

(I think that turned out right, but I'm drunk, so what do I know?!)

CEP is crap? Have you ever really looked at the CEP or a module put together well with it?

I could show you screenshots from a module I put together that I'm still impressed with--and I'm not even a good builder in my mind.

The CEP has a lot of content that isn't always helpful, but someone skilled with handling .haks could always chop out what's good. Put it in along with other custom content into a single good package.

Oroborous The CEP has a lot of content that isn't always helpful, but someone skilled with handling .haks could always chop out what's good. Put it in along with other custom content into a single good package.

That's true, the CEP can make certain areas rather impressive.

With that said, I think that, if and when haks will be added, it might be smarter to make an EfU compilation instead of having to download, what, 100 MB and only uise 1/3?

Menelanna

Ladocicea samurai swords

ummm...we already have samurai swords in EfU. What do you think katanas are? That is the proper name for a samurai sword you know. Katanas are not common but I have seen them.

No, you're just a pedant.

And yes, I could agree to an EFU hak where we draw on the various different and useful parts of other haks. It's just a case of actually riffling through all the bollocks to get at the nuggets of gold.

Continue with your suggestions though. It'll be helpful to know what the most popular haks are (evaluated on their actual value, not because they turn you into a samurai).

I think EfU as a PW environment is still far from fulfilling the full potential of the standard NWN platform. There are literally dozens of weapons/armors/builds/PrC combinations that have not been tried right now. I agree with Howland 100% on this one. Give it some time, explore the possibilities we have now, and leave .haks for the future.

- Kiaring

I do not like the idea of having to download 100+ mb of stuff to play a server thats already really really awsome as it is. DMs can make all kinds of things happen with what we have already.

Plus being on dial up I would be froced to quit EFU if such happened. :(

I'm pretty sure that there'd be people willing to send the required custom content on a CD via mail if it came down to it.

This is too early to consider putting in haks, yes, but it's good to know of the possibility now that it seems to be a very serious one in the future. I didn't even know that 1.68 was going to be the last patch. That said, there are a few things that would immediately spice up the gaming experience in EfU if haks were to be implemented.

Custom tilesets. This is the #1 reason, in my opinion. I'm not a fan of the way elevation is handled in the standard NWN tilesets -- hills look like cream cakes, you can only climb up from those silly-looking 'ramps' that are here and there, etc... now, with haks, it's possible to make smooth hills that provide complete freedom of movement if the builder so wishes. They look incredibly beautiful compared to what we have now and they're far more realistic.

It's also possible to make steep, realistic-looking canyons with suspension-bridges and such. I know of a server that has all of this stuff, including lots of beautiful surface tilesets -- swamps, mountain ranges, elven tree-houses, treetop cities. While most of it is not relevant for EfU, it goes to show what can be done to terrain with haks. I can go take a few screenshots from there if anyone likes.

A better customizeable appearance goes a long way towards making simple social situations more enjoyable, with every second character not looking the same.

Subraces with ability bonuses and penalties applied out of game. That is, no more losing skill points with races that have an Int bonus (or gaining them with races that have an Int penalty), no more meeting or not meeting feat prerequisites that you should or should not meet, and so on.

PrCs are nice, yes, but as has been pointed out, this is really among the least substantial benefits -- the existing ones are usually enough. Still, being able to implement for instance psionics would be cool.

putrid_plum I do not like the idea of having to download 100+ mb of stuff to play a server thats already really really awsome as it is. DMs can make all kinds of things happen with what we have already.

Plus being on dial up I would be froced to quit EFU if such happened. :(

You already downloaded that much already in the form of the last few patches. The excuse is silly. You can download a patch, you can download a self installing hak.

No it's not. I HAD to download those which took me over two days to do. Also, whats to stop from adding this, or that or this new thing in. When would it stop with haks? When we have 100000 mb of haks on the server? It's not a silly excuse it's a very real reason.

I am not opposed to HAKs anymore. While I was in the past, greatly even, Oro's arguments have swayed me.

To the topic of relevancy of HAKs, I am sure the DM's only add that what would really add something to the module.

I say go.

I'm greatly in favor of haks such as custom tilesets and new heads, capes and the such as I love variety. Some new monster models would also be a nice thing to see in the future. New spells would also be awesome. When it comes to PrCs though, I see them as quite low priority. I see no real priority in adding haks, but if such are decided to add to the server I have no objections at all.

About CEP. Yes, it does have a lot of crappy content too, but who says you can't pick only the quality stuff? I'm quite confident in the skills of the DM team to do so if it's ever needed.

And I agree with Ladocicea on this too though, only the best quality and most 'important' stuff should be picked and the amount of haks should still be minimum.

Haks are good for me, personally, because I can download them rather easily. They're definitely worth it, and the merits are much greater than the flaws.

However, those with bad download rates might need to sacrifice a few hours or even a day to download the content. But only once or twice.

Good idea to have an optimised hak, fine tuned for EfU needs.

Wishlist for the hak with priorites (only my personal taste of course):

1) Eye candy: tilesets, heads, effects. 2) New equipment, feats and spells 3) New monsters

A lot of good hacks are out there, not to mention CEP, a lot of things can be implemented from them.

Suggestion: No riding horses, but maybe rideable spiders for the drow?

putrid_plum No it's not. I HAD to download those which took me over two days to do. Also, whats to stop from adding this, or that or this new thing in. When would it stop with haks? When we have 100000 mb of haks on the server? It's not a silly excuse it's a very real reason.

Had to why?

To keep playing on the servers you enjoy.

This is still the same thing.

Now what would stop it with haks? Obviously people can only add as many haks as the DMs and community will want. 100,000 MB haks obviously would never happen, its hyperbole. You simply have to trust that the content that will be added is going to be worth the download time.

Its still the same as when Bioware released a patch. Only this time you trust the DMs on a server instead of the programmers at Bioware. So its still just a justification.

You spent probably three or four days working to earn the money to buy the game. You've likely spent nearly a week downloading patches already. All this time to play the game, but to say you can't spend a couple more hours to download content that can really fill out the server--is specifically geared toward improving this server (while patches are just general content for the community) doesn't make that much sense to me.

The only reason that ever convinced me to not add .haks to servers was the fear of not being able to obtain new players in a wider audience. After the last patch and the end of support, I can't see that being a problem anymore. The rest is just stubborness about downloading an 'non-official patch with specific content to improve one of my favorite servers' as near as I can see it.

Whatever I say your just going to twist it around. And like it matters anyways, the high speed connections will win out at any rate and such content will be added in.

Yeah I downloaded them to play but I don't want to download anymore. Maybe it makes me glad theres only 1 more patch? Maybe thats the reason I play on a server like EFU because I don't have to download a billion other things PLUS the patches. I'm on dial up, it suck. But thats all I can get where I live.

It's my opinion but I guess no one else feels that way. How does it go..?

"The needs of the many outweigh the needs the needs of the few." And so it will be.

I'd have to agree with Oro here. You spend months and months playing EfU, enjoying it, then you say you can't spend a few more hours -- hell, even a few more days if that's what it takes -- to enjoy it more?

No, really, there's no "twisting around". It doesn't make sense. You're just being short-sighted.

But maybe this is not something to argue in this thread, though. Just felt I had to say that.

Nagypapi

Suggestion: No riding horses, but maybe rideable spiders for the drow?

the drow actually ride giant lizards. no drow would make a spider a "beast of burden" by ridding them.

I would say go on the haks. so long as they are common ones. I sometimes have trouble downloading some haks in the past. Ones like CEP are fine by me and they are really nice. But it is the DM choice in the end so what ever they say goes.

I've waited till now to wade in, but I agree with the general consensus that limited haks would be ok, if the DM's are satisfied they will increase player enjoyment and/or make the DM's lives easier (freeing up more time for them to torment.. err, interact with us!).

Verily good point about may as well download a hak since no more patches are coming...

I'd be all for a customised .hak that takes all the good stuff we want from various sources and puts it all together. CEP does have alot of useless stuff that takes up heaps of space but I'd be a fan of some of the clothes, heads, placeables. Some of the monsters especially snakes!! Would be cool to polymorph into a snake :o Or a giant Ant! There's a few different monsters that would fit into EFU that would expand the variety rather than just renaming things and leaving the rest to imagination.

New spells feats and even classes would be awesome as well. Oh oh and skills! We could add skills for a really awesome crafting system or some such rubish.

Having a hak would be alot of work to get it all together but it would be ever so awesome...

Anyone who thinks otherwise should rethink their thinking till they agree!

I Would like to see the proof for 1.68 being final.

Having been following the topic elsewhere, it is as far as I can tell, true. I'll try and find the quote.

http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=482695&forum=42&sp=0

first post, end of.

I'm for haks moving forward, so long as they contain tastefully chosen content. NWN Spice for example.

Ok, well that was mostly a joke. Capes, cloaks, new helms and heads would be nice, as well as the tilesets from the community tileset pack (did they ever finish that? I'm too lazy to check).

The sweet thing about haks is one can split them up and rearrange them. So I would agree to include haks on a server as long as the content is selected, made sure for compatibility issues( you've got to make sure every single 2da line fits) and is not monstruously big. I think there is often a point when there is too much custom content and everything goes wild.

Yeah you have to quell the "just one more" desire that alot of people have. Which is also the same desire that gets people killed on quests :p

You can be assured that any haks we consider will be custom to our module (since there's no particular hak that suits our needs on its own) and that we will avoid bloating.

Now that the obvious has been stated; I see that so far people would like aesthetic additions to add to the immersion.

I myself am leery of most tilesets as I think few will blend with our current Underdark setting well, but how about game mechanics changes a la the PRC hack, that introduce new spells? What does the community think of this possibility, balance concerns being left to the DM's, of course?

Sinister Seneschal I myself am leery of most tilesets as I think few will blend with our current Underdark setting well, but how about game mechanics changes a la the PRC hack, that introduce new spells? What does the community think of this possibility, balance concerns being left to the DM's, of course?

Having played the OC with the PRC pack installed, I have to say that by and large, I found the PRC pack to be utter and absolute crap. Unbalanced as all get out, most of it didnt work properly without undergoing steps that would cause most folks to shy away from it, and so on and so forth. I dont think I got a single spell to work properly. I could go on and on with my own gripes about it.

If a class, say a new PRC, was made such that it was seamless with the existing game, and it was balanced beforehand so that it wouldnt outstrip anything that came before it, I suppose I wouldnt mind. Same goes for spells.

(On a related note, I adore what you guys did with "Cave In", and wonder if you could in fact make it so that players could pick new, EFU spells and script them so that they are activated by an existing spell, in much the same way that the Druid Shapechanges are "remapped" by scripting).

If asked, what I would really like to see is the capability of reaching higher levels. Not a lot higher mind you, but at least into the mid teens. Howland once mentioned to me that there were currently quests out there that would allow someone to level to about 12. I'd really just like to see something closer to 15 myself.

Anyways, thats my nickel. Return to your regularly scheduled forum whoring.

I would support an addition of ambiance and such with new tilesets and perhaps a few placeables, but I think that the majority of the storytelling desired can be undertaken with the already existing setup with perhaps a few modifications. A limited hak upgrade for efu might accomplish this without beicoming too large for our 56k players to download.

I also agree with Oro's assesment that with the final 1.68 patch and the upcomming release of NWN2, that we have perhaps reached our playerbase and that it will likely not increase above what it is now. It is for that reason I am actually in favor of such a hak for EFU.

Just my two cents from an old dixie cup.

Let's face it...we all like to look at something new now and then. I'd be all for some of the weapon, armor, cape and helm type stuff being used. The ability to have working diguises that -don't- involve a pothelm would be worth it for that alone. There is some really beautiful work out there. Heads as well...that would be nice too. Tilesets? No gripes there either, bring 'em on.

Preston did have a valid point. As much as I would like to see more PRC options, that thing needs some major balance work. I never messed around with it to a large extent, but it was obvious it is high powered stuff. I would love to see more PRCs/ spells and such if it could be done with the EFU flair we know and love, rather than turning it into an arms race ;)

I'd second Prestons cry for higher level action as well. Not too high, but higher than what we have seen. I have a feeling it will come in time, but with few higher level characters at the moment, it just isn't a high priority.

Be selective as to what the DMs feel is helpful and will add to a more immersive and colorful setting... sure. I really don't think that if it's done this way, it will never turn into a 1 Terabyte download, and will make EfU even more amazing. So, given the end of the patches, sounds fine to me.

The one thing that is important to me if haks are eventually used, is for the gods' sakes, compile them together in an exe. that installs them automatically. I can't count the number of promising servers I've wanted to check out but gave up on after seeing the list of 15 different hak files that needed to be downloaded. I shouldn't have to keep track of that many things.

I'm still against haks going in soon. However, they may make sense later on. I'm really not convinced we'll get 1.68. I'm waiting for it to get cancelled just like everything else.

#1 Now, for haks, we'd likely break it up to make downloads easier. Allowing modules to use multiple haks was a great addition. #2 We only want to do this once. I hate the idea of changing haks and forcing people to download over again, so when a hak goes in, it needs to be a final version.

With this in mind, we should be planning far in advance on how to best utilize this.

I'm against CEP. We may take content that's in CEP, but lean and mean means less lag.

For tilesets, point out specific tilesets. We really only want to see interiors and underdark/cave ones. Give links, so we can look them over.

Same thing for other content. Give links to specific haks. I know I'm not going to be modeling from scratch, so we need to figure out existing content out there that fits.

Something that occurred to me while I was reading yet-another-thread on language usage on a server that doesn't have the mechanical means to support them: haks could of course solve that. Different languages could bring a great deal of flavor into everyday interactions.

Aside from racial languages, thieves' cant is to my knowledge actually a language of its own in Faerûn (as opposed to a jumble of funny English that, while amusing, is relatively easily decipherable), druids have their own secret language, and then there're planar languages like Terran and Abyssal.

One of the most relevant additions that could be done with haks IMO.

Having put some thought into this, and taken a good look over the Vault, I'm starting to compile a list of things I'd like to see in an EfU hak.

Suffice to say, races are the big things that leap out at me as lacking.

Myconids/Fungus, Kenku, Aboleth. Goblin Spider Rider Giant Leeches Rust Monster Maybe even Devils and Demons

Also possibly,

Psionics

I wouldn't even consider making a Roleplay server without CEP anymore. There's a lot of great content, if not just for the weapon and armor models alone. (Right now I'm really missing it for my favorite round wooden shield and gladius-style shortsword.) More placables, more monsters, more everything. You just have to resist the urge to put in EVERYthing just because it's there, which isn't hard.

For instance: Now take out the CEP... that means: no statues, no barricades, no lighthouse, arches, columns, street lamps, awnings, replace the nice trees with scraggly NWN trees... in other words... BORING.

The real value in CEP over a custom hak is that it's standardized. Customized haks make people go to your website, which is a pain. Most every one who knows anything about NWN at all will already have CEP.

Now take out the CEP... that means: no statues, no barricades, no lighthouse, arches, columns, street lamps, awnings, replace the nice trees with scraggly NWN trees... in other words... BORING.

We would have to use a custom hak with stuff which is actually valuable. Not a gig or so of City tileset stuff.

The CEP, although nice in that it is standardized, is just terribly bloated and would consume a huge amount of resources for our mod, and (I strongly suspect) cause us all kinds of problems.

This may not be properly appreciated by the playerbase, but one really neat thing about the EfU mod is that it's actually really well built in terms of scripting. It's incredibly efficient, slim, just a really nice mod. Adding a huge hak pack wouldn't be a good idea, I don't think, even if it is standardized one.

Hard core! Yeah!

Rock ouuuuuut :x

EDIT: Couldn't you just put in the hak for items howland? Shields hoods etc.?

I still constantly run into people who are new to the server. NWN may not be getting lots of new players, but people still try new servers all the time... I still think .haks are a bad idea.

I have to agree I would only like to see HAKs if they were absolutely necessary - I have browsed a few other servers but balked at any that needed Haks to download.

Keep EFu HAK free for as long as possible.

In recent news:

http://nwn.bioware.com/forums/viewtopic.html?topic=490329&forum=42&sp=0

Looks like there will be one definite patch, perhaps two.

Brian Chung - Technical Artist says:

Q. [Will the] Darkness Over Daggerford content [be released] in a future patch?

Sorry, but it'll be more than likely the tilesets will be a HAK format like we did for the tropical and sea caves. The TNO tileset haks are HUGE (300mb as it sits currently), and unlike other content, they're mostly a download once and sit in your /nwn/hak/ folder. We don't really need everyone patching 300mb+ each time they press update, hence the reason for the split in the first place.

Plus, it gets you exposed to downloading and using HAKs - with the ending of NWN1 support and upcoming NWN2's resource system, it's looks like it will be something you're going to have to get used to.

I like the "looks like it will be something you're going to have to get used to.

I think I would be willing to download a .hak for the following reasons as additions:

Crafting suddenly works again underdark specific spells were added for players custom EfU monsters Premium Module content was needed for EfU (Infinite Dungeons engines could be used for Undermountain preludes, for example) CEP heads (I don't have CEP but I would at least like to use the headpack from it)

Oroborous Having put some thought into this, and taken a good look over the Vault, I'm starting to compile a list of things I'd like to see in an EfU hak.

Suffice to say, races are the big things that leap out at me as lacking.

Myconids/Fungus, Kenku, Aboleth. Goblin Spider Rider Giant Leeches Rust Monster Maybe even Devils and Demons

Also possibly,

Psionics

'scuse me, but has no one heard of 1.69? They're officially running it in... I think it's still Alpha, maybe Beta by now. It's real, and available for download at the site.

dragonfire9000 'scuse me, but has no one heard of 1.69? They're officially running it in... I think it's still Alpha, maybe Beta by now. It's real, and available for download at the site.

Lawl. This is like thread necromancy, check the dates of the posts and blame Oroboro the necro. 'course people have heard of 1.69!

Not only have we heard of it, it's nearly done and we've been discussing the changes internally for some time now.

For those that don't know, the TNO tilesets were added to the update, which is closing in on 400MB. I would have liked to see the other official tilesets added as well, but alas.

I was going to say...

Glad to know you're not all living in closets. Now, mothers' basements, yes, but you can still watch the nerd news in there.

Okay, pointless post. Is it nearly done? I don't actually keep track...

Actually, its not pointless dragonfire9000, you just can't read.

The post came up before 1.69 was announced, when 1.69 was announced (look up at the top of this page for that), it did not change the fact that patches are now stopping. Therefore, my premise that once the last patch has arrived, that at some point thereafter EfU should create a customized hak.

I resurrect this thread every now and then when I find something that I think would be wonderful to include in this future hak should it come to exist.

Now, just read the whole post and you'ld actually have known all of that and not have made yourself look more foolish than you called this thread. You can go back to your momma's basement now. :wink:

I don't think players will stop coming to Nwn. Anyone here have Quake 3 arena? How long did that come out? Its still the number 3 arena based FPS, and is so old that you need to duel boot to run it on most machines. But still, people keep playing it. Why? Because certain games personify everything you need in that type of game: Starcraft, Fallout, Quake 3 arena, Halo, Half-life, Neverwinter nights, And a few others. These games develop a cult like following, drawing more people in by almost osmosis. Not to mention Nwn got itself mentioned 9-10 times in megatokyo, and once or twice in OOTS, that cant really hurt either.

Really, Right now, Nwn is the only Computer based D&D platform that is flexible and non buggy enough to support a full D&D PW, IMO. There are others, ranging from BG to DDO, but none of them have the D&D roots in quite as well as Nwn. Its possible that Nwn2 might grab the torch at sometime in the future, after 3 or 4 more patches, but for now, I don't really think we need to worry.

But on a less rant like note: Features I would love in EfU that would need hacks: -Smite Infidel! -A few PrC's from the book of vile darkness... Just a few.... please? -Loremaster PrC -Warlocks -Feather Fall. Ok, Not really. But perhaps some non battle spells? -And, last and least likely to happen: Diplomacy instead of all these side skills that take up ranks.

EDIT: And on a side note: Aboleth's are epic monsters. Like, they turn anyone with a will save less the 5000 into seamen slaves. While Aboleth's are some of the coolest creatures in the underdark, I cant really see them as anything else then a plot device.

seamen slaves

...

you_dirty_beggar

seamen slaves

...

Teh Aboleth is t3h 5cary, rainb0wlike pwnage.

Ooooh! Ooooh!

Me! Me! [raises hand and waves it]

One handed spears!! Javilins! One handed weapons, like throwing axes, that can be used in melee as well, or picked up later after combat. Throwing weapons that can be unlimited ammo, like arrows and bolts.