The reason why thrown axes have stacks of 50, arrows have 99, darts, shuriken etc have such unrealistic size is the lack of recovery thing.

Your items are lost once used in every case, you wont find your darts and axes in the body of the fallen with the way NWN does it.

A stack of 50 throwing axes weighs the same as a suit of full plate, realistically you'd probably only carry maybe five to ten of the things (even that might be a lot) and you'd be able to recover MUCH of what you threw even if it missed it's target and hit a wall. Darts and arrows would have MORE chance of being lost if you missed the target and more of being recovered if you actually hit flesh. Sling stones would disappear at the same rate likely if they hit or missed the target due to their nature of bouncing around the shop. I doubt it would be good for lag or the engine to create individual stones all over the place that you have to go pick up, but you could simulate this by again placing a PORTION of what was thrown at a target (whether it missed or hit) into the loot of the target when it perishes.

One way to handle this would be to put weight reduction on the throwing axes so they dont impact on the weight so much.

Another idea I had was simply to call some darts , throwing daggers (but use the same proficiency etc) with possibly some other features , +1 slashing damage maybe?

I'm sure there are other ideas out there , if anyone else has some possible solutions throw them in here.

chaosprism A stack of 50 throwing axes weighs the same as a suit of full plate, realistically you'd probably only carry maybe five to ten of the things (even that might be a lot) and you'd be able to recover MUCH of what you threw even if it missed it's target and hit a wall. Darts and arrows would have MORE chance of being lost if you missed the target and more of being recovered if you actually hit flesh. Sling stones would disappear at the same rate likely if they hit or missed the target due to their nature of bouncing around the shop. I doubt it would be good for lag or the engine to create individual stones all over the place that you have to go pick up, but you could simulate this by again placing a PORTION of what was thrown at a target (whether it missed or hit) into the loot of the target when it perishes.

Yeah without NWN level support for this is likely to get very messy, I was just inquiring if anything CAN be done about it.

Er well you could make it so that you ALWAYS retrieve the axes.

What I mean by this is. Instead of buying the axes you buy an item with unique power self. Its light weight. When used it spawns 10 or 20 throwing axes into your inventory if none are already present. Th item itself which spawns these could cost say 200 gold that way it sorta covers the tons of axes it will spawn over time. It would be a good way to make using throwing weapons such as axes more viable.

Actually, not bad idea. Perhaps it could spawn like 10-20 axes some certain amount of times.

I like this idea.

I don't.

Infinite axes? How much would the machine weigh? Nonsense and rubbish.

I am a little skeptical about a machine that produces unlimited throwing axes, but on the other hand I could hook throwing axes up to the same "crate" script that food ration pouches are attached to, so that you could carry around a box of fifty without it weighing as much as a suit of full plate. I'm not really sure about this though, as it strikes me that there may be a reason why they weigh so much, but I am not a game mechanics expert so I'll let somebody with more expertise in that area chime in.

Would it be at all possible to alter the Unlimited Ammunition item property to work on throwing axes?

I'm pretty sure not.

Since they are technically not ammunition, but the weapon instead, I don't believe that works, no.

Axes as far as I can tell are Martial Mighty weapons at basic, and cheap.

They always do damage + str where as a bow to do the same, requires the mighty property which makes said bow quite expensive. If they weighed less, everyone would walk around with "mighty" ranged weapons for pennies.

Please correct me if the mechanics above are wrong.

I see it pretty basic.

A throwing axe is just that, an small axe, made of a weighty metal head and most probably a weighty metal or zhurkwood hilt. Individually, they are going to weigh a fair bit.

In groups of 50, they are going to weigh a shitload. If you dont have the strength to carry them around, then you don't. Perhaps they could be sold in lots of 10?

Also, I think they are considered mighty weapons because of the sheer amount of strength needed to hurl one so far, and have it hit with enough force to damage something.

Naga Er well you could make it so that you ALWAYS retrieve the axes.

What I mean by this is. Instead of buying the axes you buy an item with unique power self. Its light weight. When used it spawns 10 or 20 throwing axes into your inventory if none are already present. Th item itself which spawns these could cost say 200 gold that way it sorta covers the tons of axes it will spawn over time. It would be a good way to make using throwing weapons such as axes more viable.

I like this idea, but I disagree with unlimited. Perhaps 5 uses?

_Nightfire_

Naga Er well you could make it so that you ALWAYS retrieve the axes.

What I mean by this is. Instead of buying the axes you buy an item with unique power self. Its light weight. When used it spawns 10 or 20 throwing axes into your inventory if none are already present. Th item itself which spawns these could cost say 200 gold that way it sorta covers the tons of axes it will spawn over time. It would be a good way to make using throwing weapons such as axes more viable.

I like this idea, but I disagree with unlimited. Perhaps 5 uses?

Is it possible to lock the weight of a stack of throwables? If you could, you wouldn't need to change much at all, and the stack could represent several throwables that eventually break or get lost over time.

Yeah you could have an item that every time it's activated it produces LESS axes each time.

So initially the item weighs the same as 10 axes.

You activate it and 10 axes come out.

You throw them as normal (they get destroyed)

You activate the item again and this time only 7 come out (as 3 as supposed to have been destroyed by whatever chance)

So activating the item (only works out of combat and only when you have no axes in your inventory) is in effect "try and retrieve my axes"

That the key to the problem here, it's unrealistic for anyone to be carrying 50 axes around at all, much less is reasonable the only reason they had blocks of 50 is that NWN had no recovery code for thrown/missile stuff.

Also we have darts, shuriken, sling stones in the same boat here (and possibly bolts, arrows also) It would also make finding that SINGLE special arrow something interesting when you know you have a small chance to recover that special arrow from the corpse of the fallen enemy. (even if it's only 25% or lower)

I don't see the use for lowering the weight of the item. Should I just pull on another sourcebook on you guys, Weapons and Armor? The axes are so frightingly effective in the right hand, just imagine a warrior, with a Bull's Strength enchantment, throwing these things for 1d6 + 6 x 3 damage, on a ranged weapon? They should weigh tons, then. I can not stress how stupid this seems to me - The throwing axe is the best ranged weapon around, don't make it like a laugh for characters to carry tons around.

Coldburn we're pumping idea's here. We don't care what the source book says really its just something to make a weapon that right now is extremly rarely used have some kind of viability without making a 20 str half orc. Also the people who think "omg they have mighty" darts are only 5lbs per stack and also have mighty.

Darts are 10% of the weight of throwing axes they BOTH have X2 crits NOT X3 crits. Only difference is throwing axes deal 2 extra damage. Not worth the extra .9lb per axe

If your character doesn't have the strength to send a fairly heavy axe long distances over the ground to inflict damage on an enemy, he/she shouldnt be using throwing axes. Whether they come in bundles of 50 or 5 is irrelevant.

The argument essentially seems to hinge on the actual weight of each throwing axe itself. Its easy. Its an axe....metal head, and either hardwood or metal haft. Its going to be heavy.

The might property reflects the sheer amour of weight behind the object as it hits the enemy, again signifying that its a heavy little axe. The same way a mighty bow will reflect the extra muscle needed in the increased drawback.

....and as is theres no point in them even exisiting in the mod since nobody will ever use them.

Two of my four characters have used them. I know plenty of others who do. If you got the muscle, they're great weapons.

If you've got the engine sence you'll swap to the 10% weight ones that deal 2 damage less, I've never seen them once used in my timezone. And I've had people asking me if I ever sleep.

A weapon shouldnt be scrapped from the mod because PCs in your timezone dont use them :roll:

Yes, let us limit the available weapons to longswords, greatswords, and bows! Because there's no sense in having flavourful items around, if they aren't the most effective things to use.

Seriously, I'd prefer if throwing axes -weren't- made more viable. All the more interesting a character that actually uses them, similar to a thug with a club instead of a greatsword, or a fighter specialized in quarterstaffs. Keep throwingaxes the way they are, says I - You have a whole slew of other things to attack with if all you bother about is the statistical power aspects.

I see making them easier to use as a game balance problem. I have had really strong character use them in the past. First, they had no problem carrying them. Second, they were really deadly when I did use them. Nothing like a 20+ str halforc with rage and bull's strength throwing stuff at you. It gets ugly fast. D6+10 damage ranged weapons that cost 1 gold are scary.

or a fighter specialized in quarterstaffs

Done and done! And he was plenty of fun to play too.

The "usable" item that makes 10 axes for you can off course weigh 25 lbs alone for balance.

it just means you dont have to carry 50 (or 100) to be viable, you can run around with those 10 axes knowing that once the battle is over you can gather up your axes.

(remember every time you click the "gather" weapons command on the item theres a chance it's maximum will be permanently reduced.

I agree with thrawn they can be nasty on the mega-strengthed but no more nasty than a mage with empowered magic missiles or a swarm. A character that is specifically TUNED to be good with something is of course going to be good at it. You dont bother looking at the extremes, you look at what the standard user is going to use these things. An UBER-strong half-orc with 20+ str isnt going to have a problem carrying around millions of axes anyway, it's the average user of throwing axes with more moderate stats i'm talking about.

it just means you dont have to carry 50 (or 100) to be viable, you can run around with those 10 axes knowing that once the battle is over you can gather up your axes.

Buy the 50 for 1 gold, then split them to take 10, or however many yu wish to carry. Saves scripting for our busy DMs.

An UBER-strong half-orc with 20+ str isnt going to have a problem carrying around millions of axes anyway, it's the average user of throwing axes with more moderate stats i'm talking about.

If your character has average strength, he/she shouldnt be using throwing axes. They are heavy, even individually. A character with 12 strength shouldnt really be throwing individually heavy axes at opponents over lengthy distances. Its hardly IC for him to do so.

I always thought it very unrealistic that throwing axes come in lots of 50. Why not have each axe weigh like a normal hand axe, be used like a normal axe (maybe minus 1 on damage), and give the axe CHARGES that can be used if you choose to throw it. The axe disintegrates after all charges are used. Higher quality axes will have more charges (more durable).

Also, significantly DECREASE THE RANGE for throwing axes. That would help to balance the power.

Yep to put it bluntly they had packs of 50 because bioware didnt write any base code for recover (and dropping) of thrown weapons, so it was a simulation I just think we could do better.

I'd also argue that 12 strength is plenty strong enough to throw an axe (thats designed for throwing) , sure you only get 1d6+1 damage and I dont see anything wrong with them carrying 10 throwing axes around (that dont in effect perish after one throw)

The script would do something like this maybe:

a) Count how many <throwing item> the player has in their inventory, record it in CurrentItems b) Get the current MaxItems value (float) from the item. c) Multiply it by the reduction rate (0.8 etc), store it in MaxItems (local variable on item). d) If MaxItems <1 then destroy this item, exit script. e) B= ( integer(MaxItems) - CurrentItems) f) If B>0 make B <throwing item> in the players inventory