Let me start by saying-"I love this server!". Next, let me say that min/maxers are given far too much free reign to claim this a "RP focused server". I've found that "weaker" character classes (such as rogues) are far more effective in combat than my ranger. While I know the temptation, I feel a certain punishment for my choice of a realistically attributed character. I continue to plug away with this character (I'm stubborn), and I role-play him fully, despite this. I just think that a server that purports to be "RP" should do more to reward those that take "the road less travelled". I've been turned down by countless players in DM factions, in particular "The Watch", for quests because they needed "powerful warriors" or some other such nonsense because they see I'm not in metal armor. They've pointed this out IC, I might add. God forbid someone create a monk, ranger, bard, or any other character that isn't battle driven. I love this server. It's unique, well designed, and overall well run. I just think it could be better. Maybe more class specific quests, or more DM-run quests that don't just focus on battle. Well, my two cents are spent. Any replies, positive or negative, are appreciated. "Pup", aka "Kain Darkblade"

I can only speak from personal experience. I've never been turned down from a quest, unless it was for level or party size reasons. Nor have I ever rejected someone like that. I'd decided not to quest with a party myself, but there are usually IC reasons for that.

I figure if they're keen enough to want to party up and do the quest, more power to them. They know the risks. 8)

As a person that is completely incapable of creating a "min/maxed" character I don't think this server punishes "weaker" characters any more than other servers do. There might be characters IG that just simply don't want to travel with people that don't wear full plates or something like that, but those are IC reasons.

I'm yet to see evidence of the server punishing non min/maxed characters. I'm also yet to see someone who is not wearig full plate down on a quest. I've seen a few people turned down, but these were all IC reasons.

Also, what is the poll for?

And, I might add, min/max characters are fine, if their stats are RP'd. Personally though, I think they are overall harder to play and not as powerful as a rounded character.

I took it as whether you agreed with Pup or not.

Agreed, if a dumb fighter's stats are played properly, he's going to be one of the dumbest moronic people in Sanctuary. He's going to be manipulated and he's going to have the will power and personality of floating feces

He's going to be manipulated and he's going to have the will power and personality of floating feces

Thats so fucking random :lol:

I actually think that this server rewards those that like to RP and do not just trust their min/max builds. It's not always about pure power. RPing FTW

I really admire people who consistently RP min/max characters. Its so hard. Of course, if the RP is there, then theres nothing wrong with min/maxing. Like always, its a case of the few bringing down the rest. You see a few newcomers with 18/12/16/8/8/8 who speak eloquently and all that, and everyone assumes that min/maxing is teh Badz!

On the note of the watch turning you down, you can apply with quite a few classes. Let me tell you, I'm a rogue, and a watchman. That says it all. I'm not battle driven. Not too sure where you got the immediate idea that we only take fighters on. Maybe it was how your character came across, but the watch don't just take fighters. I am proof of that pudding.

There are more faction opportunities and plots than what the DMs indicate. My char is hardly a optimal druid build. Trust me any min max imp exp ftr wont get too far on his own. With that in mind, why dont you possibly look in the diaries section from time to time and see who you might like to bump into, and shoot them a tell.

I for one am always willing to make some OOC accomodations to get people involved in what I am working with.

When I first arrived on this server, I made a rogue as my first character. My first few weeks were tough as nails. I couldn't get past level 4 if my life depended on it. I kept dying.

Then I thought, well maybe I took the wrong class. Maybe I should have made a fighter or barbarian or something.

After I got my rogue on a roll and made it to 7, I made a paladin. Essentially a fighter with a few perks. And I'll say that its not easy being a fighter either. part of the reason is that as a fighting class, you have to stay up front and keep the creatuers occupied, taking the brunt of the damage.

When I play as my rogue I sit in the back with my crossbow.

And lets not forget that Rangers, rogues, and druids all can hide pretty easily, which has saved my rogues hide more times than I can count. Paladins, barbarians, and fighters stick out like sore thumbs with big targets painted on them.

If you are turned down for the 'watch', it is more likely that you didn't have a strong enough IC Role Playing reason to join them. If you are turned down because they need 'strong warriors' it's probably because a.) they don't like/respect your character IC, b.) the team is made up of mostly weaker melee types already (rogue, bard, etc), or c.) the quest is so ridiculously hack-n-slash that the other players don't think you'll live and don't want to have to worry about the unavoidable argument about how to get yoru body, what to do with it and who/where all your stuff is.

If you can rationalize to the characters IC why you should be allowed, I'm sure they would pick up on your effort and let you join. Plus who's to say you can't lie and tell them IC that you're a mighty warrior who jus wears robes because you armor has lice in it.

Don't give up! The watch has rogues, so does the spellguard..as well as many other factions. The Seekers comes to mind, and their line of work is ideal for a ranger. In fact, I would so much as recomend contacting them if it floats your boat.

Second, is an observation of mine...just take it for what it is worth and don't read too much into it. On another server I used to play on, a lot of people used to Joke about the use of evil sounding names. Kain, Kayne or and variant, linked with a lastname of Dark[anything] was stamped with the evil stereotype right off the bat. That's right...no jury, just judged. It could be a possibility, that's all I'm saying. Beleive me..it can happen. For example, a while back I walked past some people in the mines. I was wearing a robe, helm, and carrying a staff. The robes were purple BTW. As I am walking by, one of them says "was that a drow?" My description states his movements are fluid and elven in nature so that anyone has a resonable idea of what I am even helmed. Does any of that sound drowish? Probably not...but I'll bet the clue he used to draw his amazing conclusion was the name hanging over my characters head: Ilzt'datran Baen'urden. Nothing came of it and a few polite tells straightened the whole matter out, but I'm sure you can see what I am saying.

Darkus Necromanticus. I know it may sound a little awkward, but OOC information slips into the player's subconcious, letting them make certain decisions in-game they wouldn't ordinarily make. This is the greatest reason I dislike hearing IC information on the forums. Keep it to yourself, so I don't have to feel bad if I 'metagamed' the situation. Because it happens to the best of us, I know that for a fact.

Three words to solve all this:

Paladin: Detect Evil.

*wink*

I've been turned down by countless players in DM factions, in particular "The Watch", for quests because they needed "powerful warriors" or some other such nonsense because they see I'm not in metal armor.

I suspect misunderstanding or miscomunication from one end or the other.

For one thing, our Watch PCs (heh!) don't quest very much that I've seen. And they're about as un-min-maxed a group as is on the server, save for perhaps the Tigereyes (who, despite their reputation, are mostly an exceedingly charismatic bunch).

If there are indeed incidents where a character is being snubbed or ignored in his efforts to get involved with faction PCs, I would honestly like to hear about it as the number one OOC priority for all factions is extending themselves to new players and involving others (in some factions, that "involvement" may take the form of insults or beatings though, which so long as kept IC is perfectly fine). If there are incidents people would like to discuss, I am always on IRC/check Pms/the DM e-mail regularly.

Is it possible you were turned down because they didn't want you to get killed, or already had 8 people, or knew you were too low for the scripted quest minimum, or some other reason?

DM team is aware of the difference between powerful builds and non-powerful builds, and we do take this into account. We will speak with players if we feel they are not adequately role-playing their stats, and adjust our NPC interactions accordingly also. However, whenever possible we dislike being in a OOC'ly punishment role. Generally, most of what we try to do is find the awesome characters and reward them for their awesomeness and help the world come that much more alive for them.

Atleast when I was in, I said that we need strong personalities that can show discipline, and follow commands. Also my character was looking for people that have a good heart and are similar to him. it's much about the character, but I tried to be as open as possible.

I actually think this server does a very good job in bringing out the strengths of each class. The halfling finesse non-min-maxed ranger I play, arguably the least powerful build, is actually really good and I plan on playing him more when my current character permadies. Tracking is awesome, taming a deep lizard at level 4 and together attacking 4 people of at least your level, killing one, is awesome, and getting pretty much anywhere with Camoflage is awesome. Being in the city and doing quests I admit he isn't that good but in the wilds, being able to get past almost any mob, tame powerful ones, stealth to avoid unfavorable encounters, track to find people, I think rangers are in good shape.

When people say "Powerful Warrior" what it really means most often is "you are too low a level for this quest" or "we have more than 8 in our party already".

I've never seen anyone turned away from a quest for being the wrong class.

As for the "road less traveled" I play a multiclass fighter/cleric/wizard. He more or less sucks as a build, isn't min/maxed at all. The DMs reward me based on my play though, not combat expertise.

I've likely got some of the best rewards and items that I've seen, and short of having a bag of holding and platemail of ooze (with reduced chance of spell failure) I've got all the best items I can imagine having, rewards for plots going around, and opprotunities to get involved more.

This is all based on how I play, my preserverance in playing, my willingness to get others involvedi n plots--none of it is based on having 'good' stats. Hell, for a wizard/fighter/cleric my highest stat is CON. Nothing else is higher than a 12.

I stand corrected. I also did not mean to lump everyone together, and I apologize for that. Perhaps I should quit whining and put more effort into development of my character. I appreciate everyone's responses and I will take them all to heart. The fact that I got so many responses so quickly may prove me wrong in and of itself. I also probably overreacted to the frustration of being raised so many times. It just feels like I'm treading water. In retrospect, it is probably my own carelessness that causes me so much grief. To any who took my complaints personally (DMs in particular :wink: ), please don't. As I said, "I love this server!", and I meant it. This is the first server to get it's hooks in me for any period of time and I'll probably play on it until it goes down permanently.

Thanks again for all the replies!!!

Pup, aka "Kain Darkblade"

I have seen your character around and I am quite found of the mere look,though I have yet to rp with him.themin/max thing if rped correctly can be fun but very deadly. Once with a cha 8 and int 8 half orc I ran west again and again not realizing where exactly i was going except to "the kind elven city to the west" I ended up with 55 damage to the face from several directions before I could even type a line. As to say about min max, not the best rp build. He was told to do it for the 20 gold he wanted to earn.

In this server from what I noticed it is common to die often no matter what your build is. My front liner Gerdan died probably 7-10 times before his PvP death. He was min/max in some of the areas and a lot of warriors on the server die some what often, from what I have seen of course. There is the incident where people dont rp that well and if they do that tell them what you feel, heck i am still learning my way around.

In time we all can make this server a greater place than it already is and we, as players and dms, need input,like you gave pup,in order to check ourselves. It is all part of the game and if you have a question ask it, player or dm.

That's really all that I have valued most from this server, the ability to ask questions that seem to bother you and getting a kind answer in return(of course people get pissed once in a while but hey that happens)