Darkness originally had two benefits - protection and stealthing. After the change, which I'm not going to argue wasn't needed (THANKS, JERKY POWERGAMERS), it only retains one of these functions - protection. Concealment in NWN unfortunately does not provide anything for stealthers. (And NWN darkness can't be carried around with you as a globe, like in PnP.) So, I am suggesting the following simple addition:

Upon casting, in addition to it's current effects, the spell invises allied targets in it's radius (only once - upon casting) for the minimum duration (1 second I believe) and (possibly pending a small reflex check) does a SetActionMode to turn their stealth on. This could make the spell useful again for the sneaky weasel types, without changing or adding more than a minimum to the spell itself, or making it more powergamy. Kinda like a smokebomb/distraction effect to let you quickly step back into the shadows.

Wouldn't it be cooler if smokebombs were sold? They'd basically use the choking powder effect. You'd toss one, and be able to stealth in the smoke. Like a Ninja. >_>

Or Batman.

Meldread Wouldn't it be cooler if smokebombs were sold? They'd basically use the choking powder effect. You'd toss one, and be able to stealth in the smoke. Like a Ninja. >_>

I think smokebombs should be sold too. :D

On a related note, see invis probably shouldn't be able to counter stealthing via darkness - although ultravision should (unless we're talking about smoke bombs!) - but I'm not that familiar with the engine, so I don't know if there's a more elegant way to get them into stealth.

Thank you for your suggestion. We would like you to address these following concerns:

- Immunity to darkness. - The scaling of the spell to be consistent with darkness duration. - The irritation of involuntary stealth-mode.

I think smoke bombs are the best answer. EfU is a low magic server, so they fit more with the theme anyway. Throwing a smokebomb wouldn't be much different than drinking an invis potion and then stealthing.

The exception is that you'll be able to throw the smoke bomb, the smoke will fill the air (using the animation for the choking powder), and anyone who stands in it will be able to stealth, though they'd have to do so manually.

- Immunity to darkness.

Gotcha. I didn't originally address this, seeing as the previous "immunity counter" to darkness, ultravision, stopped countering it since the darkness nerf, leaving it largely useless as it stands anyhoo.

I had also thought "Immunity: Darkness" was basically broken to begin with, but I haven't played around with it in a while, so maybe that's changed.

Perhaps the two countering abilities, immunity and ultravision, could use a little help, something like a search and spot bonus. This would make them more useful in general and somewhat mitigate the stealth aspect this suggestion would give darkness back.

- The scaling of the spell to be consistent with darkness duration.

Right. I don't think the stealthing itself should be repeatable, to avoid laming via what could then effectively be a HiPS spell. Darkness will of course still be "useful" at higher levels, since it retains the 20% concealment effect in the area of the cast *cough* although noone ever seems to bother taking darkness anymore these days. ;)

- The irritation of involuntary stealth-mode.

Agreed. Perhaps instead of a reflex check, have it instead check for, and only work on, partied characters with a positive base stealth skill. Everyone else, clerics, warriors, etc, will be highly unlikely to have stealth above 0, and thus this aspect will never effect anyone but stealthers. Any character who incorporates stealth into his build will probably welcome the opportunity to use it one additional time during battle.

Meldread I think smoke bombs are the best answer.

I like the idea of smoke bombs, but the question here is "why is darkness so poor now, even compared to the d20srd version of darkness,"* and "can we make it better, or at least have it somewhat useful to stealthers again please?"

*Where it lasts 10 minutes per level, is cast on an item and thusly can be carried around with you, can be covered and un-covered at will, and of course per pnp rules allows you to make hide checks, thus providing a stealther with a very useful and long-lasting buff which can be temporarily put away if the concealment to adjacent enemies is undesired.

I suggest downing spot and search checks by 20!

Ok. Completely new approach... since we are using some aspects of the pnp version of darkness, just convert it entirely.

In other words, take a spell like aura of vitality as a template, and then use the system reference document's stats:

Change the duration to 10min/level and change the effect to 20% concealment to everything, ally and foe, within the aura. Since concealment doesn't have a specific benefit to stealthers in NWN (but would normally), I'd also like to suggest a hide skill bonus to all targets in range. It probably should not be cumulative with camouflage and similar effects imo.

Oops. Yes, that was my post. :)

A smoke bomb which could be thrown, allowing someone to enter stealth in front of others for a brief moment would be excellent, so long as they had some kind of countdown and weren't readily available, but rather given out as sweet rewards.

With the new AI, which seems to have monsters attacking invis creatures, would it be possible to revert darkness back to how it was - but keeping the 20% concealment? So as to allow sneaks and rogues to use stealth in it.

The real problem with the old darkness was that it just turned off the AI. I don't think that would be the case anymore.

The NWN engine treats the Darkness effect as a class of invisibility, and all invisibility grants 50% concealment. This is hardcoded and cannot be changed, so the Darkness spell script no longer uses the effect.

AI breaking was only part of the reason we nerfed darkness. We also wanted to drop the concealment bonus down to 20%.

I'm unaware of any AI changes that have been made in the past two years, so I don't know what this "new AI" talk is.

I suggested smoke bombs for stealthing a long time ago. Everyone just jumped down my throat, saying "Just use an invis potion!". Even though invis and stealth are two different things.

I'm still for smoke bombs, as long as they are no more common than invis potions. Perhaps the smoke bombs could grant HiPS for a few seconds?

A level 1, unnerfed darkness spell. Smokebomb.

As far as darkness breaking the AI, after darkness is gone does the AI return to attacking?

Some monster use a greater perceptual system, which makes them see more around themselves and therefore react more intelligently. However this should not be abused for all monsters as it is longer to process for the AI.

I would really wish to make darkness ... useful again. It was a very stylish spell to me.

If the AI is resumed after darkness is over, why not just make darkness back the way it was, however make it last half a round or one round only, it would make it useful to re enter stealth and would be rather annoying to prepare a ton of darkness to abuse the AI bug.

Relinquish If the AI is resumed after darkness is over, why not just make darkness back the way it was, however make it last half a round or one round only, it would make it useful to re enter stealth and would be rather annoying to prepare a ton of darkness to abuse the AI bug.

I think it would be even better if it had (for NPCs) a delayed ultravision effect, and forced stealthy NPCs into hiding. (Number of rounds until they get UV depending on creature int, perhaps.)

It would be quite funny to see darkness be cast on a bunch of goblin wizards/assassins... and half of them get UV right away, just start casting spells again while protected in darkness, and some of the assassins actually stealth in it and start sneaking towards players... ^_^

The dumbest NPCs might not get a UV counter right away, but a 1 second fear effect for some of them, just to scatter them out of the darkness. These simple two effects would cap the effect of darkness on NPCs, make the smarter NPCs largely unaffected by it (some of them could actually take advantage of it) and even the dumbest ones would at least spread out a little until they hit the time limit of however many rounds, and get their UV too.

As a side effect, ultravision once more acts as a counter, too.