At the moment the Drow subrace is ECL 2 in efu if I'm not mistaken. Duergar subrace in efu I've confirmed is ecl 1. Now if you compare to stats on those two it's quite a difference.

Drow are supposed to be scary, but with the current set up on efu they're pretty darn weak. Is there any way they could be improved? +2 Ab +1 all spell slots to represent their ecl? Maybe just some natural armor. Right now as I say they're one of the weakest subraces in all of efu. (Goblins and kobolds are a race not subrace!)

Anyway just putting that out there for discussion.

Spell resistance is pretty badass, but I am a strong supporter of Magisters idea to remove all ECL from subraces that are DM approved.

Personally I think Drow and other Subraces with high ECL should start at lvl 7 some gold and a unique starting store. Then let them keep ECL. Thats just my opinion.

Like many other races of creatures, drow are not born as scary machines of annihilation. If they wish to be feared in Sanctuary as the rag-tag exiles and unwanted loners we usually approve them as, they will have to work incredibly hard to do so.

Players have done so in the past, and indeed, drow have earned their reputation as being feared and terrible despite these boundaries set before them already.

As it stands, these subraces are vastly too powerful to ever exist without ECL.

I'm not asking for their ecl to be removed. I'm just asking for it to be adjusted in accordance to their benefits. I think there are several ECL 1 races with stats that completely blow drow out of the water since the Darkness change. Might also want to note that the famous Drow of old had the nwn darkness, not this new utterly rubbish one.

No one remembers these drow because they spammed darkness.

_trendymonster_ No one remembers these drow because they spammed darkness.

I'm aware however it used to be quite a useful tool when it came to pvp providing additional ab as well as concealment, allowing for survival in such situations.

Hey, I think drow are fine on ECL2. Spell Resistance is just really nice.

Just wondering what races have stats that blow drow out of the water but have lower ECL so I can app for them, lol. :wink:

Flamin' Pete Hey, I think drow are fine on ECL2. Spell Resistance is just really nice.

Just wondering what races have stats that blow drow out of the water but have lower ECL so I can app for them, lol. :wink:

Earth Genasi +2 Con +2 Str Bonus Feat ECL: 1

Duergar +2 con -4 cha immunity phk, wierd, paralysis, poison, normal dwarf saves, 1 invis/day ECL 1

I'll list more later if I must :P

Aasimar. +2 wisdom charisma. -5 electricity, light once a day.

Duergar is ECL 2.

Mort Duergar is ECL 2.

Actually Mort thats what I thought as well, unless it's been readjusted recently it's ECL +1 according to several DM's, Labrea, Wiggyboy, Caddies (well not a DM anymore) wcsherry etc >.>

Edit: Though if I am mistaken (I'm pretty sure it was said on irc by these people!) you may proceed to lynch me.

When I played a duergar, I was under the impression they were ECL 2, they were ECL 1 though according to people.

ECL used to be broke back in the day IIRC, Duergar were ECL 2 but advanced as normal PCs. Later on when you and I were Drow Magister, the ECL thing was fixed.

I'd still like like to see faerie fire to go along with that darkness.

Goblin Butcher

Flamin' Pete Hey, I think drow are fine on ECL2. Spell Resistance is just really nice.

Just wondering what races have stats that blow drow out of the water but have lower ECL so I can app for them, lol. :wink:

Earth Genasi +2 Con +2 Str Bonus Feat ECL: 1

Duergar +2 con -4 cha immunity phk, wierd, paralysis, poison, normal dwarf saves, 1 invis/day ECL 1

I'll list more later if I must :P

and drow are better than all of them, in my opinion, hence the bigger ECL. 8)

you know nothing until you suffer ecl 3

Deep Gnome ftw..I was level 3 for months..

Not true, actually. ECL was busted for a good long while, and was fixed once and for all after the Ghaunadauran Drow had their day.

Zau did just fine with ECL 2 working properly.

I won't really go into an in depth discussion about darkness, as I do not really think it made much of a difference in the success or failings of specific drow PC's we've had.

The reason drow can't survive anymore is there no faction to really protect them. (Which is how it probably should be in Sanctuary, given the history of the VTG, and Sewer Drow have had in the city.)

At any rate, as this thread is still going on, I will go through a more detailed reasoning as to why I'm strictly against this. As I posted before in my previous response, drow are not born as destroyers of men. Many are commoners, and weak, etc.

What makes drow truly terrifying though, is the place they are raised in. Traensyr for example, is hardly a safe place. It is a ruthless city of rival houses that are nearly constantly at war. Drow are plotting, scheming, killing, culling, and training continually. Academies exist that have some of the greatest instructors in the Underdark. The soldiers that enter these academies, if they survive that is, yes, will come out at level 10 with generally +2 gear afforded to them by their trainers and sponsored Houses.

The same is more or less true of priests, assassins, and wizards.

Exiles, though, have none of this, nor should they be feared. They are removed from the society that makes them every bit as terrifying as you find the NPC's, and in general, should reflect that.

That said, having suffered through a few drow PC's, I am genuinely impressed with the success some have accomplished.

Personally, I would suggest Drow starting at level three, as they do not have the same experience in growing up, as did other races. They recieved no love, they just recieved training, labor, and more training. They can spend over the span of one human's life in preparing for their militaristic career. And yet a human will reach level four, before this Drow can reach level three, just due to ECL.

An extra AB or AC could work also imo.

Keep them how they are, the truly adept, fearsome drow PC's will most likely reach power! It's all in how you play it. I believe it is fine how it is, and the drow that truly succeed make it that much more impressive when they do.

All this talk is making me want to play a Drow... ECL be damned.

Wow, everything Sherry said was basicly, right. :)

No.

Locked.