I have wracked my brain endlessly. There are no -really- suitable Underdark Druid Deities. And especially, there are no druid deities that have any tribal bend to them. I've been trying to come up with an Underdark Amazonian Tribal Concept, that are led by druids. There is no druid deity out there that fits.

Let me go over the list and then I'll make a deity up.

-------------

Druid Deities:

Aerdrie Faenya: A Female Chaotic Good Elven Deity mostly concerned about flying in the sky and clouds.

Angharradh: A female Chaotic Good Elven Deity that is primarily concerned with defending Elven lands from evil and in particular Lolth.

Auril: A female Neutral Evil deity primarily concerned with ice and cold. Not much ice down here, and not very balance-y to boot.

Baervan Wildwanderer: A male Neutral Good Gnomish Deity that is focused on forests. Last I checked, we're a bit lacking on trees.

Chauntea: A female Neutral Good deity focused on agriculture.

Cyrrollalee: A female Lawful Good Hafling Deity... that does not even belong as a druid deity... as she's the goddess of friendship, trust, hospitality, and the home. I'm going to assume she was a typo.

Deep Sashelas A male Chaotic Good Elven deity dealing with sea elves, oceans and the like. While there are certainly underwater places in the Underdark, it's not very conducive to RP on EfU considering the majority of players can't breathe underwater.

Eldath: A female neutral good deity of peace, springs and quiet places. While Eldath might be nice for a druid living in the Underdark, but the whole peace aspect of her kinda kills her for a tribe that raids others for survival.

Fenmarel Mestarine: A male chaotic neutral elven deity who focuses intently on not relying on others and being a loner. Not very good for a tribe.

Gwaeron Windstrom: A male neutral good deity of rangers and tracking, who is more or less Mielikki's mouth piece. (In fact he's called "Mouth of Mielikki" by some.)

Hiatea: A female neutral good deity of giants. This deity is actually somewhat suitable, but has no dogma, but she is primarily worshiped by forest giants and is good aligned. Additionally, she has no real dogma.

Isis: A female neutral good Mulhorandi deity focused upon the weather, love, agriculture and good magic and marriage. Her intense focus on Mulhorand makes her unsuitable for all non-Mulhorandi.

Kossuth: A male (can a large pillar of flame have a gender?) neutral deity of fire. one of the main elemental deities, and perhaps the most active elemental deity in the setting. He could also be suitable, despite often being thought of as male. However, his intense focus upon fire makes him unsuitable toward the balance.

Lurue: A female chaotic good deity of unicorns. "Evil melts quickest in the face of a rapier wit and unshackled joy." It's hard to have joy when you're struggling to survive, and just try that on an Illithid and see how well it works.

Moander: A male chaotic evil deity of rot and decay. A suitable deity for the Underdark, but not really for my concept.

Malar: A male chaotic evil deity of bloodlust, evil lycantrophes, and hunters... he works, if you don't mind the pathological dislike of Elves or the fact that using ranged weapons is a sin. Also, the fact that any sane druid who wants to uphold the balance is likely going to kill the Clerics of Malar who will be all about savagery and senseless slaughter.

Mielikki: A female neutral good deity of forest creatures, forests and rangers. There aren't that many woodlands in the Underdark, last I checked. "Live in the forest and be a part of the forest, but do not dwell in endless battle against the forest." Alright, sure thing Mielikki - I'm a bit lost right now though! >_>

Nobanion: A male lawful good deity of royalty, lions and feline beasts, and good beasts. The counter to Malar. I like Nobanion, and he fits - but not his goodly attitude.

Rillifane Rallathis: A chaotic good elven deity of woodlands, nature, wild elves and druids. He's all about defending the great forests and what not - but hey... again... lack of trees.

Sebek: A male neutral evil Mulhorandi deity of hazardous rivers, wetlands, and crocodiles. He is the crocodile version of Malar, except he wants to literally turn the world into one vast swamp. So much for the balance, huh?

Segojan Earthcaller: A male neutral good gnomish deity. A deity of earth, nature and the dead - he focuses strongly on gnomes. Too strongly for other races to really worship him.

Sekolah: A male lawful evil deity of the Sahuagin. Well considering he's a fish god, and that he's -really- biased toward them, I doubt he'll look favorably upon non-Sahuagin worshipers.

Sheela Peryroyl: A female neutral halfling deity of nature, agriculture, song, dance and romantic love. This deity is pretty suitable, it just sucks that she's a halfling deity.

Shiallia: A female neutral good deity of woodland glades growth and fertility. Her main focus seems to be the forests and procreation. In particular the High forest and Neverwinter Wood. Her dogma is suitable, it's just a pity that her portfolios are so focused on woodlands.

Silvanus: A male neutral deity of wild nature and druids. He is the iconic druid deity, living in harmony with nature.

Solonor Thelandria: A male chaotic good elven deity of archery, hunting and wilderness survival. He could be a suitable deity if not for the fact he is an elven (and male) deity.

Talona: A female chaotic evil deity of disease and poison. Not really suitable for my concept, but at least she could work in the Underdark.

Talos: A male chaotic evil deity of storms and destruction, as well as earthquakes, he is a suitable Underdark deity of you're bent on destruction. Not suitable for my concept though.

Thard Harr: A male chaotic good dwarven deity. Yes, even this deity like most nature deities - is a deity of some type of woodland place, this time jungles. Despite the fact that Dwarves live under the earth the majority of their lives, the one and only dwarven druid deity is of jungles.

Ubtao: A male neutral deity of chult, dinosaurs and jungles. He doesn't give a crap about the Underdark as he is a jungle deity.

Ulutiu: A male lawful neutral deity of polar environments and glaciers. I'm not aware of any glaciers in the underdark... are you?

Umberlee: A female chaotic evil deity of oceans, currents, waves and sea winds. Well I guess this could work if you stretch it to say the Dark Lake is an underground ocean.

-------------

Alright, those are all the EfU listed nature deities. Moander was not listed, but he is also an EfU nature deity. Unless I am mistaken Cyrrollalee is NOT a nature deity and should probably be removed if she is listed as one.

My concept is this: A group of tribal people living in the Underdark. They highly venerate their ancestors and "the spirits" - in particular nature spirits. Their primarily religious authority are druids who communicate with said spirits, make offerings to them, perform various religious ceremonies – think more along the lines of tribal spirit shaman with druid oaths.

This tribe would be led by females, kinda like Underdark Amazons. Thus, I need a deity who is female. Also, I need a deity who does not care much about different races worshiping it.

This post arises out of a discussion I had with metro on IRC. I have tried every which way to make this work, but I cannot find a deity who is suitable to what I am trying to do.

First, the vast majority of the nature deities are good aligned. Metro informed me that they likely would not accept an evil druid, but I find it difficult to envision a tribe of underdark female warriors surviving very long in the underdark while being “good”. Neutral, maybe, but not good – and at least some bend toward evil out of necessity.

Also, while you are not bound to the dogma like a cleric is, you are still bound to some of the beliefs. For example, druids of Malar would at least distrust and dislike elves, and thus would never allow them into the tribe. They also would discourage ranged weapons, and would in general act in ways that would most likely get them killed – not very conducive to common sense if you want to survive in the Underdark.

The most suitable are the following:

Hiatea: A giant deity, so I am having a bit of trouble here. She is also good aligned. If she were neutral I do not think I would have much problem.

Kossuth: First of all, he is generally considered to be male. Although considering he is a big pillar of flame, I am not sure that matters much. However, being that he believes fire is greater than every other element, I find it difficult to imagine him caring much about the balance.

Malar: Same as Kossuth, but for the fact that druids uphold the balance and Malar really cares nothing for it. He could work if he wasn't into senseless slaughter, stupid tactics, and racism toward elves.

Nobanion: A wonderful deity that I would love to use. The only problem I have is that he's male and is lawful good.

Sheela Peryroyl: A deity that I think would work perfectly, if she didn't mind a bit of savagery and wasn't specifically a halfling deity.

Shiallia: Another deity I think that could work well, except she's good aligned and specifically focused on two different forests. Not very Underdark friendly.

-------

Out of frustration I am making a proposal that I know will likely be rejected. EfU is set in a non-cannon part of the Underdark. We have already altered the gods already by having one deity killed to be replaced by another. There have even been other sources that PCs could worship to get spells as clerics. There is absolutely no nature deity that perfectly fits the Underdark. Every single deity listed is primarily focused upon the nature in forests and woodland glades.

Thus, I propose the following be made a deity:

Vashtara The Stalker of the Depths, the Prowler in Darkness Symbol: A prowler's paw, claws extended Home Plane: Material Plane Alignment: Neutral Portfolio: Underdark Nature Spirits, Underdark Wildlife, Cunning Hunters Worshipers: Hunters, sentient underdark beasts, underdark nature spirits, druids, rangers, those who strive to live in harmony with the underdark Favored Weapon: Vashtara's Claw (claw bracer)

Cleric Alignments: LG, NG, LN, N, CN, LE, NE NWN Domains: Animal, Earth, Plant, Protection, Cavern, Fungus

History/Relationships: Vashtara is a mysterious deity, much like the home she inhabits. There are many different claims of her origin. Some claim that she is the daughter of Malar and some type of nature spirit native to the Underdark. Others believe that she is the daughter of Nobanion instead. Still, others believe that she is simply a natural manifestation of the Underdark itself - perhaps a defensive mechanism against those who would despoil the natural lands below. Whatever the case she does not seem interested on revealing her origins.

Vashtara is engaged in an endless hunt with Malar throughout the Underdark. At times she is the prey and at others she is the hunter. She seems to enjoy these hunts, as while Malar is stronger she is more cunning in her tactics easily eluding the deity in her native home.

She has no home plane, instead endlessly roaming and hunting the Underdark. She has few, if any, worshipers on the surface, and truth be told, few worshipers in the Underdark itself. She is a reserved deity, appearing when her worshipers need her the most, but more often than not leaving them to fend for themselves. All who have seen her claim that she takes the form of an enormous female deep prowler.

Dogma: Let it be known that there is beauty in the Underdark. The stalagmite is as beautiful as the mountain, the mushroom as beautiful as the tree and the deep prowler just as majestic as the lion. Do not be wasteful of the resources of the Underdark, and there shall be plenty for all. There is much that can be learned from the hunt, but there is more to beasts than simple slaughter. Favor those predators that use cunning over simple savagery, and those prey that use the natural surroundings of the Underdark as their defense against them. Seek to emulate these traits, and you shall survive the lands below. Always battle aberrations for they are unnatural creatures that corrupt the land. Stand against those who would bring harm to the Underdark's natural beauty, either through corruption or destruction. Pay homage to the spirits of the Underdark, for they are numerous, and many will grant you aid if you know how to ask.

-------

Yeah, I know this isn't going to fly, but I'm frustrated and hate the fact that there is no nature deity -specifically- aligned to the Underdark while there are fifty million aligned to the forests. I also hate that there are so many good aligned nature deities and so few neutral aligned ones. There is also no nature deity, perhaps outside of Malar, that could really be considered a 'tribal' deity for barbarians and others of their ilk.

Well, there's Uthgar, but whether or not he has druids is under consideration if I'm correct.

Isn't there a Mushroom God somewhere? He might have druids.

I thought Uthgar allowed druids too, but I was wrong. He does not allow them, even though he has the animal domain, and he is not worshiped directly, but is worshiped via his beast totems.

Plus, Uthgar does not work well with the concept check out his dogma:

Strength is everything. Civilization is weakness. Men should fight, hunt, and raid from the weak to provide for their wives and families. Family is sacred, and its bonds are not cast aside lightly. Arcane magic is effete, self-indulgent, and ultimately leads to weakness. Reliance upon arcane magic is an evil and false path that leads to death and ruin. Revere Uthgar, your ancestors, and your tribe's spirit. Study the beast so that you know its virtues and its weaknesses; claim its virtues as your own and weed its weaknesses from your spirit. The beast holds wisdom and raw power that you can make your own. Make the others of your tribe fear and respect your power and knowledge so they heed the wise words of your ancestors speak through you to them.

Almost all Uthgar women stay at home and tend the children. There are very few female clerics of Uthgar if any at all.

Additionally, I want the tribe to be sorcerer heavy. I can't go into details without being spoilerish though, but suffice it to say it makes sense.

I mean, come on... there is one weak deity for two forests. Why can't there be one single nature deity for the entire Underdark, focused primarily on the nature of the Underdark? >_>

Well, there WERE a lot of Malarites runnin' around bein' crazy a long time ago... Malar actually does embody the spirit of the underdark pretty well:

"I'LL *%@#ING KILL YOU!"

I fully support this.

Kossuth and Malar may not be very conductive to balance, but I think your main problem stems from your interpretation of druids. You're going by the Player's Handbook description, where they're all concerned with the 'balance' and wagga wagga. In Forgotten Realms Druids are a little less balance-obsessed. Malarite druids are focused on the predatorial aspects of nature, while Kossuthan(?) ones are focused on elemental fire, purification through fire, setting things on fire, fireflies, and flaming homosexuality. Okay maybe not that last one.

Viashino_wizard Well, there WERE a lot of Malarites runnin' around bein' crazy a long time ago... Malar actually does embody the spirit of the underdark pretty well:

"I'LL *%@#ING KILL YOU!"

And that's why a Druid of Malar would have to kill a Cleric of Malar. A druid is, fundamentally, about balance. The Druid cannot - and would not - accept the wanton endless slaughter that Malar represents. If taken to an extreme, they'd even find themselves in direct conflict with the deity himself.

A druid of Malar favors predators, and the culling of the weak, but they are not so stupid as to believe that if predators kill all the prey that the predators will survive. Once the food chain is broken, the predators will die as well and then there would be nothing left to hunt. Hence the balance.

I won't disagree that his attitude matches up with many predators in the Underdark. It certainly does, but it is too one sided for the idea I have - I want something more balanced toward the center. Something more sensible.

If you look at the alignment of the nature deities, true neutral nature deities are badly lacking. Most of them, by far, are good aligned. They are out numbered greater than 2 to 1.

Also, if Shiallia can be the goddess of woodland glades, woodland fertility, the High Forest, and Neverwinter Wood then why can't there be a similar deity of the Underdark? There is a deity of two piddly little surface forests and ZERO nature deities solely dedicated to upholding nature and balance in the Underdark.

I just think such a deity is more fitting to the setting. I can't imagine a druid who has dedicated themselves to woodland glades being happy in the Underdark. After all, they're used to trees - and they're never going to see a tree again. Ever. They'd be more focused on leaving the Underdark than sticking around to uphold the balance.

Viashino_wizard Kossuth and Malar may not be very conductive to balance, but I think your main problem stems from your interpretation of druids. You're going by the Player's Handbook description, where they're all concerned with the 'balance' and wagga wagga. In Forgotten Realms Druids are a little less balance-obsessed. Malarite druids are focused on the predatorial aspects of nature, while Kossuthan(?) ones are focused on elemental fire, purification through fire, setting things on fire, fireflies, and flaming homosexuality. Okay maybe not that last one.

No, I'm going by the EfU interpretation of druids which can be found here. Scroll down to the bottom.

The biggest reason is that there isn't a deity that supports human tribal peoples who live in the UD, isn't that there aren't many of those kinds of people at all.

I do hear you though. Lack of good UD druid deities is problematic.

My only suggestion is to remind you that druids are not clerics. A druid that worshipped Silvanus or Chauntea doesn't need to be preaching about those two particular deities all the time, just being a good druid and being more oriented towards either wildness/plant life or a more domesticated/harmonious/earth mother concept.

You could probably get a Psilofyr (god of mushrooms) or Uthgar (totem god) druid approved with an application, though.

Uthgar would be ideal, except for the problems I outlined above.

However, I do not see any reason why a 'generic' true neutral underdark druid deity couldn't be added. We're already playing in a non-cannon Forgotten Realms. I mean, for crying out loud, there is a Dwarven Druid Deity of Jungles! :P

If you are worshiping a deity that focuses heavily upon forests, I cannot imagine such a druid ever finding true peace while trapped within the Underdark, away from trees. That's not to say they wouldn't recognize the importance of the balance in the Underdark itself, just that... their love is trees. That is why they dedicated themselves to nature, on the surface, to a deity that was highly focused upon forests and woodlands.

There are plenty of 'good' deities for Druids living in the Underdark, it's just that none of those deities have a particular focus on the Underdark itself. Which seems silly.

----

There was some dispute on IRC. Metro told me that the same alignment steps apply to Druids just as Clerics. Thus, Chauntea would never accept an evil druid into her service. This is the source of much of my frustration.

Others on IRC were disagreeing with that, but keep in mind I've never played a Druid on EfU before so I don't know the answer one way or another.

Either way, the server -needs- a druid deity focused on the Underdark itself. >_>

Maybe Imbrandul(sp) should be made a druid deity?

However, that would raise the issue that, now that he's dead, his followers spells are granted by Shar. And since she's all death to everything, it might not fly. Best I can come up with, though!

Also, are we able to combine the beliefs of two or more deities into one druidic belief?

Viashino_wizard Isn't there a Mushroom God somewhere? He might have druids.

I was spanked, sent to my room without dinner and told “NO!” in no uncertain terms for simply mentioning this a couple months ago.

Now all the sudden it’s okay??? *Shrugs*

I do not think adding this deity would change the setting to much.

Just MHO… I’m for it also, but remember… Approving one player to have a druid of a non-canon god opens the door for somebody else saying why can s/he have a druid of that god, but I can’t have a druid of so-and-so. I think perhaps a list of EfU approved, application druidic deities, may be in order. Otherwise be prepared for nerf’d druids of obscure deities to start showing up in game.

It’s all fair as long as everybody is playing by the same rules.

Just to clear up: you can almost apply for pretty much anything. We have previously added gods in response to player interest, however, it's not something we just do, and there's certainly a reason we don't have, say, regular Greyhawk deities readily available.

Since I missed Howland's reply earlier, I'll also add that it was decided long ago that Psilofyr would not be a player deity but that we would adopt him into our setting. It doesn't seem like anybody has been serious enough about it to apply previously and so we've never needed to do anything more about it, but this is an example of something you could apply for. Thus, it isn't as much the adding of a new deity as it is simply granting access to one players are otherwise not allowed to use -- I'm personally strongly against just making up (or randomly adding, because we can) deities.

I’m for it also, but remember… Approving one player to have a druid of a non-canon god opens the door for somebody else saying why can s/he have a druid of that god, but I can’t have a druid of so-and-so.

I'm not requesting a deity just for my PC. I'm requesting a deity be added that any player who wanted to create an Underdark Druid could reasonably follow, regardless of alignment.

As I pointed out Shiallia is the goddess of woodland glades, woodland fertility, the High Forest, and Neverwinter Wood. If there is a druid deity of two very specific forests, what is the reason (EfU Cannon) that there is no deity specifically of Underdark Druidic things?

It just makes sense considering our setting. If it was something very specific to my PC then I would have applied for it. It's just a problem I ran into while trying to create a PC.

Face it: Looking over the druid deities at least 50%-75% do not fit the setting.

After all, if anything, I'd think you need an application to be a druid of Mielikki. Not only is she the only druid deity that lets you wear full plate, her beliefs simply do not match up with the Underdark: "Live in the forest and be a part of the forest, but do not dwell in endless battle against the forest. Protect forest life, defend every tree, plant anew where death fells a tree, and restore the natural harmony that fire-users and woodcutters often disrupt."

Now, the druid does not have to follow the dogma, this is true, but the dogma is at the heart of what a deity believes and is about. Mielikki is all about the forests and woodlands - much like Horus-Re and Anhur are all about Mulhorand.

Just as being a cleric of Horus-Re would mean you are deeply invested in Mulhorand and would likely want to return to it, the same is true for a druid or cleric of Mielikki wanting to return to the forests.

There are deities that make sense for an Underdark Druid - Moander is a good example - but there is no deity specifically focused on the natural aspects of the Underdark itself.

Uthgar Father of the Uthgardt, Battle Father Portfolio: Uthgardt barbarian tribes, physical strength Worshipers: The Uthgardt tribes, barbarians (A little self centered, isn't he...) Cleric Alignments: CE, CG, CN, N, NG (3 out of 5 druidic alignments isn't bad.) NwN Domains: Animal, Chaos, Strength, War (Animal works)

Howland You could probably get a Psilofyr (god of mushrooms) or Uthgar (totem god) druid approved with an application, though.

Dumathoin Keeper of Secrets under the Mountain, the Silent Keeper Portfolio: Buried wealth, ores, gems, mining, exploration, shield dwarves, guardian of the dead Worshipers: Dwarves, gemsmiths, metal-smiths, miners (He not only cares about dwarves, he cares about gems and metals too!) Cleric Alignments: CN, N, NE, NG, LN (Holy crap! 5 for 5!) NwN Domains: Cavern, Dwarf, Earth, Knowledge, Metal, Protection (So, should dwarf count being that they are forged from the earth by Moradin?)

Howland In the forgotten realms, and in EfU, druids are unlike clerics in that only certain deities grant druids spells. So, you could not have a druid of Cyric, a Druid of Bane, a Druid of Torm, or a Druid of Dumathoin.

You do the math, because it doesn't add up correctly for me...

The math adds up to me fine.

Dumathoin is a deity of mining, smithing, and being a guardian of the dead. He's like a cross between Gond, Callurduran Smoothands, and Kelemvor. He is no way a deity of wildness. It even says he has a strange friendship with the illithid god. No where, to my knowledge, does it say anywhere that he has druid followers.

Uthgar, on the other hand, is a very savage/beast-like deity whose clerics canonically often multiclass as druids. The fact he wasn't included was probably more of an oversight, although it's a bit tough to say, since there are certainly aspects of his dogma that are not druid-like (although that applies to plenty of the druid deities). Anyway, the DM team would need to discuss it.

Psilofyr grants druid spells but generally only to plant-creatures, so it'd be a very unusual thing for there to be a human druid of that deity (but you could app for it, it'd basically be like a background request).

Snoteye

Viashino_wizard Isn't there a Mushroom God somewhere? He might have druids.

Psilofyr, and no.

Zuggtmoy - Demon Lady of Fungi

Zuggtmoy is no god, however, and currently has more important business to worry about than granting spells (not that she would have that power anymore).

[Edit] But I totally encourage mad Zuggtmoy cultists. ^_^

A few things the post here on Dumathoin doesn’t include...

His relationship with the illithid god Ilsensine, whose divine realm and his overlap, is nonhostile, though the exact relationship between the two gods is a mystery. Their respective worshippers are hostile to one another, however.

Dumathoin does not object to tunneling, mining, or gathering the treasures of the Oerth, but he frowns on clumsy or haphazard mining. Dumathoin's worshipers are encouraged to seek out the hidden gifts that Dumathoin watches over and to enhance their natural beauty and the beauty of the mines from which they are taken. Dumathoin does not encourage greed, as he says that true beauty is found in discovery and crafting, not hoarding.

His clergy seek to uncover the treasures of the earth without marring the natural beauty of the tunnels and mines and without succumbing to greed. They supervise mines, ensuring they are safe and secure from monsters. They also help with subterranean agriculture.

Sacrifices of gems and jewels are made to the Keeper of Secrets Under the Mountain during the time of the Deepstone Triad. Precious stones are ground to powder and mixed with herbs and fungi to be used as fertilizer for subterranean flora.

Sedarine here...sorry, being lazy @ work ;)

Meldread, you're a very creative guy and hell of a player. Why just have a diety created? How about you app for druid powers granted (the spell casting part) to your character. From there, you gain followers and preach the word. What I'm talking about is -BE- the diety. Start you path from mortal man with a flair for nature and the underdark, and take it all the way to godhood. Then, one day in death your profile will be added as a demigod. DMs could whip up you as a valid druidic diety so your followers could be granted spells to I reckon.

Have fun and aim high bud!

Anonymous Sedarine here...sorry, being lazy @ work ;)

Meldread, you're a very creative guy and hell of a player. Why just have a diety created? How about you app for druid powers granted (the spell casting part) to your character. From there, you gain followers and preach the word. What I'm talking about is -BE- the diety. Start you path from mortal man with a flair for nature and the underdark, and take it all the way to godhood. Then, one day in death your profile will be added as a demigod. DMs could whip up you as a valid druidic diety so your followers could be granted spells to I reckon.

Have fun and aim high bud!

No. Not "Meldread, how ABOUT you do this..."

Meldread.

DO THIS. You have no choice.

Deep Sashelas A male Chaotic Good Elven deity dealing with sea elves, oceans and the like. While there are certainly underwater places in the Underdark, it's not very conducive to RP on EfU considering the majority of players can't breathe underwater.

Not that I'm an expert on druids, but there is a LOT of interesting underwater areas, along with strange spoilers that I have stumbled apon having to do with sea-stuff. That might not be a bad idea, but I don't know the character concept you have, so I could be way off.

Since I'm playing a druid, I suppose I'll give my two cents.

It would make sense to have a diety that nature types can worship, that lords over the underdark. The only things I see is this.

The underdark is more or a less a wasteland where only mushrooms and weeds and the ocassional cave flower prosper, very little for a druid to watch over.

The general idea in the underdark nature wise is that the strong survive by preying on the weak. Fits in with Malar I suppose so why create another god for this purpose?

As for all the forest loving dietys that have been mentioned, Zurkhwood is widely accepted as being the "tree" of the underdark. Dogmas are interpreted in many different ways, just interpret that the trees their dogma's speak of are actually zurkhwood. Create forests of zurkhwood and watch over them etc etc.

Theres plenty of ways to look how a god sees things in nature.

Just to add to what Daz is saying, that there are many ways to interpret different dogmas....

If you take a look at all of the dieties, especially the nature ones, you find they were written with a forest filled realm in mind. Take a look at a map of the world and you'll see much of it is indeed forest.

I believe the apparent limit of the dogmas stems from this. The creators of the world assumed most people would be playing in a woodland environment. They sort of overlooked that their own world has deserts, plains, mountains, and all the other various terrain types in the natural world....

So, what does that mean as a player? That if you come from these regions you're godless? No. It just means you have to be more creative. As stated, Forests can be interpreted in different ways. In the Dark it might be a forest of giant mushrooms... or a forest of giant crystalline structures? Further, there is plenty of agriculture going on. (Chauntea didn't make it to your list of suitable deities, I noticed.) People need to eat, and they don't subside strictly on rothe. There is a wonderful duality in elements that is at play here too. You're living underground with no sun. Caves are cold. I don't know if you've ever been underground, but if you go just a little ways, you run into a constant temperature of about 50 degrees Fahrenheit. In EfU we have places warmed naturally by lava tubes and others where ice actually forms and you take cold damage if you aren't protected. Wind and rock (obviously) are also in evidence. They are constantly at battle with each other, the wind eroding, the land shifting to compensate.

The elements are in evidence. More so, I'd say, than even on the surface (in such a small area, at least). This opens ample opportunity for druids of any elemental deity to work here. What's important to realize is that a druid does not have to focus on all aspects of "balance" at once. A druid of Kossuth might focus on bringing warmth to the cold regions of the Dark. People live here, they need fire to exist. Alternatively a druid of Auril would naturally oppose the actions of any Kossuthian.

Through their individual struggles, the balance each other. This is what is important with Druids. When taken in their separate selves... they may seem to be destructively narrow minded. But, take them as a whole and they all balance out.

Chaunteans promote farming. Farming promotes larger populations. Large populations typically means less room for natural areas. How do you balance this? Poison. Disease. Slaughter. All three of which are represented by other druidic deities.

You also don't list Lurue, passing her dogma off as absurd. She happens to fit quite nicely in the Underdark as she does everywhere. Yes, it's hard to be happy in the Underdark, but if you try, you can succeed at it. Actively seeking to bring joy to people in the Underdark is not so far fetched. If it were, you'd likely have no more Bards! People cling to normality by their very nature. They will flock to someone who offers them some semblance of this. Especially in a place that is so abnormal.

Auril, Chauntea, Lurue, Kossuth... All make fine deities for a tribal people to worship.

You even mentioned that Nobanion fits your idea. I think so too, from what you've said of it. In fact, he suits me as the quintessential tribal deity. So you don't like his goodly attitude? Play as Lawful Neutral. Uphold the laws and traditions of your tribe without concern for 'good' or 'evil' which... are truly defined by culture anyway. I doubt Drow view themselves as evil. They are doing what they view as Good for themselves and their society.

You mention Shiala as well. I read her dogma and it's entire focus is Procreation and Survival. Nature balances everything on it's own. The only concern for those living within that natural system is survival. Perfect tribal deity. You even liked her! Ignore the forest stuff, it's not even mentioned in her Dogma.

Ulutiu is also a very tribal deity in my view and could fit. Imagine a matriarchal culture ruled by the priestesses of Ulutiu (since you wanted an amazonian type theme, I believe?). They might hail from frozen tundra type regions, or may even exist strictly in the underdark. Hunter/gatherers who have high respect for the animals they must kill to survive. Who live in a cold and dangerous environment and struggle to survive.

Ubtao has been played very successfully by several druids in the Underdark. Life is a maze to which we all seek the exit in order to gain access to a pleasant afterlife. Yes, he specifically focuses on the 'Jungle', but that doesn't mean it can't fit elsewhere. How often have you heard of cities being referred to as Urban Jungles? Why do you suppose this is? They are maze like and difficult to navigate. So is the Underdark. The deities main focus is simply surviving the Maze of Life to obtain a greater afterlife. Furthermore, what do you typically see living in jungle environments. Tribal people. You could almost make the same argument for multi-ethnic cities... Small homogeneous bands of people that come together to form a small community (tribe) to survive in a difficult and dangerous place (city, jungle... whatever).

Lastly, and most importantly perhaps... From what I can tell, this character is coming from the surface. In which case, it hardly matters who you worship insofar as the underdark is concerned. If this isn't the case... then any that I've listed above fit just as well on the surface as they do below it.

Decided I'd take a look through the Dogmas of each of the nature deities and make a list like you have... I came up with a very different list, it seems. Naturally, you're looking for a deity that fits your own concept as well, which I know little about. But what I do know is that it has to fit in the underdark and also a tribal society. I came up with many deities that fit such. If you need more specific criteria... well that doesn't exactly warrant creating a new deity for the Underdark when there are already so many that fit the setting.

Elven * Aerdrie Faenya - Tough to fit the Dark... but could be viewed more as an elemental deity of air. Plus, there are flying creatures in the Dark for whom she would care. * Angharradh - Fits the Underdark. Very easily fits a tribal setting. * Deep Sashelas - Fits Underdark and Tribal. Elemental Deity of Water for the elves. * Fenmarel Mestarine - Fits the Underdark, not so much a Tribal attitude. * Rillifane Rallathis - Deity of trees... but the dogma speaks strictly of living in harmony with Nature, not just trees. Fits both underdark and tribal life. * Solonor Thelandria - Fits both fine if your character can see the beauty inherent in anything natural, including caves.

Mulhorandi - Kinda off your concept, so easily ignored. * Anhur * Isis * Sebek

Gnomish * Baervan Wildwanderer - Doesn't much fit Underdark * Segojan Earthcaller - Perfect fit for the underdark

Halfling * Cyrrollalee - Fits Underdark, Fits tribal * Sheela Peryroyl - Fits Underdark, Fits tribal

Dwarven * Thard Harr - fits both just fine if you think of dwarven clans as tribes (which they really are)

Monstrous so easily ignored * Hiatea * Sekolah

Human * Auril - Fits Underdark, Fits tribal. Elemental force of frost * Chauntea - Fits Underdark, Fits tribal * Eldath - Fits Underdark, Fits tribal. Elemental force of water * Gwaeron Windstrom - Fits Underdark, Fits tribal * Kossuth - Fits Underdark, Fits tribal * Lurue - Fits Underdark, Fits tribal * Malar - Fits Underdark, Fits tribal * Mielikki - Not a great fit to the underdark, but the first line of her dogma, "Intelligent beings can live in harmony with the wild without requiring the destruction of one in the name of the other", leaves her open to broad interpretation and could fit in the Underdark. * Nobanion - Fits the Underdark, Fits a tribal culture * Shiallia - Fits the Dark and tribal culture * Silvanus - Tends towards Forests, but can be easily adapted to any natural environment. * Talona - Fits the underdark just fine. I can't imagine an entire society growing around her as patron... but it might. * Talos - Chaos. Fits fine in the Underdark. Again hard to imagine a whole society having him as their patron. * Ubtao - Fits both just fine * Ulutiu - Fits both just fine * Umberlee - The only deity that I can't place in the Underdark at all. Her focus is storms on the seas and ... well we don't exactly have stormy seas.

So, of the Thirty Two Nature Deities available, sixteen are generally viewed as Human deities. Of those, only one (Umberlee) doesn't fit in the underdark at all, and two (Silvanus and Mielikki) require a small bit of creative interpretation to be used in the Underdark. That's thirteen out of sixteen... or 81% of all human nature deities who fit without trouble into the underdark.

Of the other sixteen deities... well it sounds like you're making a human, so they can be safely ignored for you. However if you discount the two monstrous and three Mulhorandi (since they don't have settlements in the Underdark anyway) deities... that leaves eleven deities only two (Aerdrie Faenya, Baervan Wildwanderer) of which I can't fit to the Underdark very nicely. 81% again.

So, that leaves 81% of all nature deities fitting quite nicely in the natural order of the Underdark. Is there one that focuses specifically on the Underdark? No. This is to be expected, since there aren't exactly large human settlements in the Underdark. But that doesn't mean that any of the above deities cannot fit in the Underdark. They simply fit wherever people are.

I just have to say:

Thank you FleetingHeart !! That was one of (if not the most) reasoned, fact filled responces I have seen in a Loooooong time. (not only here but other sites as well)

You took the time to do your research, and show how with just a little thought you can create something different and interesting. To many times we (yes all of us) want someone else to do the work for us, and give us the perfect answers..What should I play, What Faction should I join, What God....on and on we go.

You showed us all, that using what has been 'given' to us, and just a little thought and work, we can make just about anything work.

(I think I now must go make a Druid ...)

Again, Kudos and Thank you.

>.>