Recent IG events have left the non-combat questload quite barren of late. Playing a character who is not really into combat, it's become rather hard to scratch together any XP/Gold with the lack of a few good easily accesible delivery quests.
Would be nice to see a few of them return, or a few new ones crop up.
Hear, hear!
There's also a grand total of one of these available to new PCs confined to Lower (Kobolds and Goblins, mostly).
I'm probably going to seem like the bad guy when I say this but here goes! I feel personally that it should be difficult to earn gold without some form of combat considering this is the underdark and sanctuary is currently experiencing massive job shortages (according to one of the state of sanctuary threads)
I'd also point out that a lot of the combat quests at early levels are fairly easy, I have in fact done some of them was a level 2 wizard with a dagger and 8 str meleeing all the way. While thats a very extreme case and involved a lot of careful thought it's still possible!
I'd be against more non combat quests personally in any case mostly due to the ic fact that there isn't supposed to be enough work for people not willing to do fairly dangerous things!
I am in favour of the delivery quests.
I rather spent the time having role-playing than grinding at some rat cave, especially at early levels. I guess I can understand how some want the gold to be archived only by dangerous combat quest, but not everyone enjoys the same things and I do not think it is against fiction that delivery boys/girls are needed too.
The server offers role for non-combat focused characters too, which is great. I think its only fair to have some tasks for them too.
Perhaps some more long ranged delivery's also? They were all eliminated. A few "Take this to Mur" or "Take this to Thomas's shop of undeath" would be great.
Goblin Butcher I'm probably going to seem like the bad guy when I say this but here goes! I feel personally that it should be difficult to earn gold without some form of combat considering this is the underdark and sanctuary is currently experiencing massive job shortages (according to one of the state of sanctuary threads)I'd also point out that a lot of the combat quests at early levels are fairly easy, I have in fact done some of them was a level 2 wizard with a dagger and 8 str meleeing all the way. While thats a very extreme case and involved a lot of careful thought it's still possible!
I'd be against more non combat quests personally in any case mostly due to the ic fact that there isn't supposed to be enough work for people not willing to do fairly dangerous things!
Pretty much nailed it.
Why should a character get better at combat, tougher to kill, and stronger/quicker/hardier/smarter/wiser/charismatic-ier(?) as fast as someone who's enduring grueling situations?
And delivery quests are void of any RPing other than asking for directions. Done correctly, combat quests should have LOTS of RP opportunity!
Lastly, yes, goblins and kobolds are tough. They damned well should be. But they're not THAT hard. If the challenge is a problem, don't play them (and in my opinion, you've missed the point of doing so anyways if the challenge puts you off).
Wyric The server offers role for non-combat focused characters too, which is great. I think its only fair to have some tasks for them too.
Then in my personal opinion you shouldn't be asking for "delivery quests" rather "diplomacy quests" I remember on a certain other server there was a quest where you had to negotiate with a group of rowdy individuals. If the negotiations went particularly bad they went hostile and you either ran, died, or killed them!
These are the types of quests I would enjoy seeing!
Think of it from the new player / new character perspective. You're new to the server, you don't really know your footing yet, it's good to get up to level 3 and get a chain shirt or breastplate before you start risking your life. Forcing a character to throw themselves at rats without so much as enough gold to buy a sword and a chain shirt isn't a good introduction for new characters!
SkillFocuspwn Think of it from the new player / new character perspective. You're new to the server, you don't really know your footing yet, it's good to get up to level 3 and get a chain shirt or breastplate before you start risking your life. Forcing a character to throw themselves at rats without so much as enough gold to buy a sword and a chain shirt isn't a good introduction for new characters!
Um, I sorta disagree. EFU is not supposed to be easy! It's supposed to be fairly difficult to get by and such. Hide armor 3 ac costs 15 gp there are weapons cheaper than that too! You get at very least 120gp at start up.
I am in favor of a few more as well. Maybe one or two in New Dunwarren as well since the only one there doesn't work as of the last time a tried. Just nice to get things kick started when you roll up a new character. Also for those less combat oriented.
I've done most of the low level combat quests with a level 2 wizard as well. Ghostly Visage rules.....
Just saying, it's nice to have folks able to make a few coins by doing various things. Also, actual newbiews would appreciate it I'm guessing.
As one of the newer members to EFU, I have found that doing the delivery quests, really helped me to learn the lay of the land.
It forced me to Roleplay, and 'find' those that I could help without risking life and limb.
I would like to see some new ones, as most of us now can do them in our sleep. Perhaps instead of delivering a Pie to (what's his name) in the Town Hall, you now need to take it to Cyrus in the Crone. That would force the "Newbies" to find their way to lower, and then find the Crone.
Maybe the Cultist that gets the map (found in the bizare) can be moved...Or Rufus, the one you get the key from is no longer in the Town Hall, but in the Last Stand, or even the Lower Bizare.
Those are the kind of changes I would like to see, something that would keep the older players creating new characters on their toes.
IxTheSpeedyI've done most of the low level combat quests with a level 2 wizard as well. Ghostly Visage rules......
Ghostly visage is at level 3
I think its better to be new player friendly and not have the attitude that new players must go trough great pains to advance. It is a good feelings to archive something early on, and it does get a lot harder later on.
I think EFU has pretty good balance currently and I do not see it being ruined by having few more non-combat oriented quests.
No promises, but I understand the feeling that the 'start' of a character can feel a bit stale and 'been there, done that' after the 100th time you deliver a pie to Jafar.
We're going to try and aim so that even the lower-levels have lots and lots of replay value. I wont say the details, but more low levels quest tailored for specific classes, skills, etc. are definitely on the list.
Gotta agree with Wyric on that. Sure EfU is a hard server, and our setting is a brutal one. But scaring away new players by making their first hour on the server a brutally difficult one isn't going to find many new players around, and new players are the most precious resource we have.
Well if there are going to be more deliveries I would think they should be mostly one shots!
Right, Ghostly Visage, level 3... You get my point though.
New low level quests that are engaging and class specific sounds great. Shake it up a bit.
So for example, Acylote Thatcher would ask a Paladin to find a person who tried to attack him durring his prayers and finish him off? That's a good idea, especially if it's a one shot.
Should also consider oneshots to introduce things like the sending system, and anything else that may need a small quest to teach you a bit.
I think that it was 2 non-combat quests were removed since I've started (about a month ago). It'd be fine to replace them IMO, but not make many more beyond that. To me fedex's are so new characters can get familiar with the geography of the main areas of the sever. They are there to get you enough gold to get started and basically equiped. The generally involve no RP (though I really appricate the fact that on EftU fedex's have the potential to get additional rewards for taking social skills like persuade).
To Garem's comment: This arguement is only valid to fighter-types and really only loosely. You can get better, faster and tougher with training. Putting yourself in harm's way will make skill aquisiting happen more quickly (assuming you survive) which is relfected by the fact that you get a lot more xp for a combat quest than you do for a fedex. A rogue (for example) is simply not going to get better at picking locks or disabiling traps by killing hordes of rats....
I really like Goblin Butcher's idea, a quest that could be completed either with skill (like persuade, intimidate or bluff) or by combat.
Goblin Butcher Well if there are going to be more deliveries I would think they should be mostly one shots!
I'm all for new quests similar to Bilby's, that can only be done once by any particular character. You can then make them as challenging as you like and give a decent reward for the enterprising character that sees it through knowing they won't spam the quest each reset.
Yeah, that would be good. Bilby's is pretty much "only sneaks need apply", and it'd be nice to see a few like that for other classes too. Is bilby's still bugged btw? When I did it, none of the missiles ever hit me until I stepped outside the building and got hit by a dozen MMs in a nasty case of Death From Above.
lazyturtle,
Wizards get better spells by practicing their magic under pressure (i.e. combat scenarios).
Rogues become more agile (at level 4 and 8 and 12, etc.) and capable of handling diverse situations (i.e. higher skills), like trapping, lockpicking, shooting their shortbows, and all that jazz in the field.
Unless you want to start giving XP out for casting spells at target dummies, no, delivering pies (easier than combat dummies, btw) should not reap the rewards of higher skills and better spells (non-physical attributes) that are gained by combat-oriented questing. Sure, I'll agree that it's odd to make rogues kill rats to get better at sneaking or whatever skill. But we don't have a system that allows you to increase skills while maintaining the same combat prowess (or losing it from lack of practice even!).
Class-specific quests sound like a cool idea.
One thing that people seem to have missed now I think about it, is the secondary purpose of the Fedex quests. Getting your character some money for a bit of basic kit to be able to fight if he gets killed/mugged and loses the lot.
Yes, I know there's the banks, and I do tend to keep about 200 gold around for an invis, weapons and hide armor, but early chars don't necessarily have bank accounts.
Garem ...... But we don't have a system that allows you to increase skills while maintaining the same combat prowess (or losing it from lack of practice even!).Class-specific quests sound like a cool idea.
You are 100% correct there. It's the nwn and dnd games. They're combat games. And for the purposes of the game itself I agree: we can't have people spamming combat dummies until thier 10th level. So yes, get out there and kick some butt! But for general RP purposes the wizard class description reads (in part): Wizards depend on intensive study to create their magic. They examine musty old tomes, debate magical theory with their peers, and practice minor magics whenever they can. For a wizard, magic is not a talent but a difficult, rewarding art.
So casting during combat should lead you to take feats like combat casting and whatnot...but studying magic should be paramount to a wizard.
Anyway back on topic:
I really like class specific quests that members of other classes can solve..just less efficently. Like Bilby's. I did that quest with a barbarian and was able to avoid MOST of the traps (except at the end..but I had the hp's to deal with the beating I took).
So maybe that's the solution: more 1 shot quests that are geared towards a specific class, but other classes can take a wack at it (and possibly fail or get hurt in the process).
I agree that the extra fedex quests should be more abundant. And the bluff/intimidate/persuade scenario would be good too.
To make the xp more reasonable, maybe the deliveries should be more serious than jafar's pies? Or more choices could be involved.
Perhaps a shady fellow in the lower alleys, (Maybe the guy that used to make people deliver paper to the red skull fortress.) wants you to deliver some poison to another equally shady character in the sewers or canal ward. However, one could just as well turn it in to the authorites, providing more roleplay.
Maybe one will be asked to deliver a blade to some bigshot paladin in the temple place that I never go to. Or one could bring it the pawn shop in lower instead.
Perhaps depending on the decision, there could be a small encounter afterwards. The paladins could send a fellow to straighten you out. Or the shady character could send a few of his friends to mug you.
You can always suggest a delivery quest and we'll look at it and take the ones we like and fit with the server if the idea is original, etc.
You can even use this thread if you wish: Just use the following template.
Quest Giver: Quest Receiver: Brief Summary/Reason:
Keep it brief and concise!
Quest Giver: One of the Clerks in the Herald's Office Quest Receiver: Macasta or Lavenza Guards/Doormen Summary/Reason: A letter needs to be delivered to one of the families. Gets PCs to explore the residential district.
Quest Giver: Halflings nearby the former Sugar Sweets Hangout Quest Receiver: That Sharressian guy in the Crone. Summary/Reason: Wedding invitations!
Quest Giver: Random Beggar in Lower Quest Receiver: Wally Walcott Summary/Reason: This random beggar has an awesome idea for a building. Deliver the plans to Wally. Gets PCs to explore the Canal Ward.
My turn:
Quest Giver: Cyrus Doors (SP?) Quest Receiver: Pawnbroker Pendropon (Also SP?) Brief Summary/Reason: Pendropon needs to drink too, but dosn't want to leave his goods with his untrustworthy bodyguards. So he pays extra so adventurors will deliver Mushrom spirits to him.
We need some for lower, so this one would be great.
I'll try and put what I said above in a more professional form. Here goes.
Quest Giver: Shady Hooded Fellow (who used to give a quest for paper deliveries.) Reciever: Another Shady Fellow in the Canal District. OR Sergeant Lauren in the in-between. Brief Summary: A shady hooded fellow wants you to deliver some poison ingredients to his friend in the canal. You can do as he asks, or turn the poison in to local authories.
Quest Giver: Cyrus (Pissing Crone) Receiver: Pawnbroaker --- back to Cyrus Quest Summary/Reason: Cyrus can not leave his post, and wants someone to get an item from the Broaker for him. Take the gold he gives, pay the Broaker, and return the (unidentifiable DC 30+) item. (The player could keep the gold, but then when ever they wanted to rest in the Crone, they would not be able to until they complete the task.)
Quest Giver: Medicine Woman (in the lower bizare) Quest Reveiver: Guard in the Sultry Sirene, (or soon to be Cloak-n-Coin) Summary/Reason: The woman asks that you deliver a vial to the Guard...for what purpose she will not tell.
I am in agreement. More delivery quests that gets PC's to explore areas outside of Upper and Lower. Lower needs more deliveries for people who choose to start there, and those deliveries can take you to Sewer Town or the Canal. They can start in key points of interest in Lower.
More Upper deliveries can take you to the Residential District and then to New Dunwarren.
I'd also like to see quests that have you deliver letters, have it so you can open them and read them. I always wondered, for example, if Barkley's letter was somehow passing on secret Spellguard information. I only wish I had gotten a DM when I had the chance so I could open it with DM oversight. :(
sylvyrdragon said:
Quest Giver: Medicine Woman (in the lower bizare) Quest Reveiver: Guard in the Sultry Sirene, (or soon to be Cloak-n-Coin) Summary/Reason: The woman asks that you deliver a vial to the Guard...for what purpose she will not tell.
I'm pretty sure that guard isn't supposed to be there, but I could be totally wrong.
That would be most highly appreciated. I'm considering coming back now we've got 1.69, and I'd love to see some fun little level 2 3 and 4 stuff. Can't wait to see what you come up with!