This is sort of ranty, but:

Please provide a brief physical description of your character, including any mannerisms you think are important? I am not a fan of the detailed personal history or descriptions with make spot check, but even that is prefered over a total lack of description.

I get so frustrated over descriptions that are empty, or have 'RP to find out' as a stand alone. For background, RP should be a must... for description, I think not.

I can *examine person with 'RP to find out' in desc*, but if they are in the middle of a conversation, or don't take the hint, I will never find out what they 'really' look like, let alone what subtle mannerisms they have.

*if this is in the wrong forum, please move it :?

Guilty as charged :?

General physical appearance in your bio is good practice, I think.

Mannerisms? Non-essential. You'll pick them up as you observe the character. It's what emotes are for.

Ladocicea General physical appearance in your bio is good practice, I think.

Mannerisms? Non-essential. You'll pick them up as you observe the character. It's what emotes are for.

Mannerisms are helpers... certainly you can pick those up while watching/playing, but if one has a slight limp, *favors his left leg as he walks along* can get tedious, both as the person with the gimp leg typing it every time you hobble anyplace, and for the people walking along with said person, getting spammed with his condition.

I don't think mannerisms in the desc lets a person off the hook from RPing it, but it does mean they do not need to RP it every single time it would be an issue.

Some descriptions make for great RP, you can even hook things to your character's past, such as a scar along the left side of their face, running down to their neck. Someone could ask the person how they got the scar..

When I write my bios I usually do something along these lines; Noticable, important distinguishing things first. Then age, then race. I think as a bare bones, that covers MOST of the important info people want to know.

I agree with Vesa. I merely put race, height, eyes and hair. Distinguishing features were a scar, tattoo and that he is seldom seen without small cuts and bruising (realistic way of showing he is a fighter).

Preferably I like the details as detailed as possible. The colour of his eyes and hair are one thing, but the shape of his face, the size of his nose and ears, thickness of his eyebrows - As many things you can think off. For practice, look in the mirror and describe your face in the tiniest amount of detail, and then imagine your character's face, and describe him in the way you described yourself. It is very rewarding once you've made such a bio, and it really lets you get into the character. I highly recommend that everyone does it.

And to expand on this post: At least include your race! In the past, I could differantiate Wood Elves from Sun Elves, by examing them and seeing that one has a Con increase, and the other a Int increase, but with 1.67 it tends to be harder. While differences should be easely noticed for a somewhat trained eye.

I tend to do mine rather short and basic, and with no equipment whatsoever. Usually just cover race, approximate height and age (comparative, rarely use numbers), facial features (ranging from general to very detailed) and hair.

Oh, and, by courtesy of Coldburn: *You see nothing but death in his eyes!*

Snoteye *You see nothing but death in his eyes!*

and please if is possible use cm and Kg... very difficult for not americans understand the scale you people use. :roll:

new-me and please if is possible use cm and Kg... very difficult for not americans understand the scale you people use. :roll:

I agree a hunnert per cent with Coldburn on this! Down with kg and cm !

As for descriptions, it's my favorite thing to do when creating a new character, and the more detailled, more torturing and painful to read it is, the better.. well, just kidding..

Just to keep it a bit shorter, I'd say character background stories and bios do not really belong in there either. I've seen it, and I remember having done it myself, as a newb. Well, we all started small, remember? :wink:

Coldburn

new-me and please if is possible use cm and Kg... very difficult for not americans understand the scale you people use. :roll:

I think cm and kg look ugly. I'm a European myself, but I've falled in love with the American way. I'm 6'4" and 190 lbs!

For future reference, 6 feet 6.74 inches is as close as you get to 2 metres, and an average halfling is, what, 3 feet? Google is your friend.

I am a strong believer in simple descriptions and I dont use "spot check dc whatever"

In my opinion, the description shouldnt be long and obnoxious to read. How much time do you spend looking at someone in the street? Not long I'd imagine, unless they were hot and naked. With that out of the way I usually keep my descriptions to brief general observations, usually focusing on whats unique to my character, be it age, body type, hair, gait, things s/he carries, or quirks/mannerisms. Thats usually a good thing to work with, and besides it gets really bad if you forget what you put in your 6 paragraph description, and you rp something different. A short descpription hitting only the high points allows for more open ended rp, and creative license.

This is my favourite response to any Dc's in descriptions.

Will save DC 10000000 - I CARE

Anyway, I've always put a description of my character in the bio. However mannerisms is something which should NOT be put in there. You should roleplay your characters mannerisms to a point where they can be seen. Its easy enough to figure out acharacters mannerisms by spending time with em. Even in real life you can' tell anything other than what they look like at first glance.

Dr Breen I am a strong believer in simple descriptions and I dont use "spot check dc whatever"

In my opinion, the description shouldnt be long and obnoxious to read. How much time do you spend looking at someone in the street? Not long I'd imagine, unless they were hot and naked. With that out of the way I usually keep my descriptions to brief general observations, usually focusing on whats unique to my character, be it age, body type, hair, gait, things s/he carries, or quirks/mannerisms. Thats usually a good thing to work with, and besides it gets really bad if you forget what you put in your 6 paragraph description, and you rp something different. A short descpription hitting only the high points allows for more open ended rp, and creative license.

Anything that my character would initially pick up about someone is OK with me, whether it be specific physical characteristics or mannerisms.

As someone who plays a lot of bar flies, I prefer short descriptions that I can quickly scan through as I try to juggle a half-dozen conversations.

If they're long, it really helps me as a player if they either have a list of attributes at the top or an opening line that encapsulates the character. It's like reading a newspaper: If the opening's hooked me and I've a few spare moments, I'll read the rest, but if the necessary info's not easily attainable, I'll probably miss some key attribute that would color my character's perception of yours.

I almost always put in a tow or three word description of what my character is, especially my odder concepts, followed by the description. I'll probably still do it regardless, but does anyone find that helpful?

For example...

Zandral Adderon, the Warlock (weird idea I had a year ago, don't ask)

Finch Gambkar, the Ghostwise Barbarian

Tagrin Stonethorn, the Hunter

Descriptions that are short and sweet are the best.

In my opinion, they should be about the length that the original Bioware "descriptions" are, I make exceptions only in special instances. The rule of thumb is that if you have to scroll to see it all, it's probably too long. I don't know about you others, but when I see a description like that, I just close it without bothering to read anything unless it's important at the time.

You don't have to write a damn novel in your description, all the important stuff can be fit in a few lines. Just look at the NPC descriptions.

I am trying to go to shorter descriptions...

I used to play a MUD that had a short description of about 24 words, then they had a long description too... they had hard requirements that no actions, thoughts, emotions, etc, could be in them, and they gave ya bonus points for making them rich and detailed.

I am trying to get away from that now.

Long flowery descriptions - as nice as they are (and I'm guilty of it too) aren't good. A description needs to be short, sweet, and to the point with a few distinguishing characteristics, so that when my Watchman is walking down the street looking for wanted criminals, I can peg them quickly by something other than *gives a detailed description of Joe Evil*. Hasn't been much of a problem before, really. But imagine when someone's concept has to do with being a detailed observer, taking in everything there is to see about a person quickly and remembering it. It's a bit of a pain when they have to spend a full minute trying to read someone's description, all the while being talked to. It's not like we can just sit in the market for hours at a time reading each others' descriptions. EfU is at least a bit more fast paced than that. In fact, I haven't yet seen many people idling anywhere. (Although I know I'm guilty of it occasionally.)

I see the objections given to detailed descriptions, but it has got me wondering. I, and I know for a fact that others do too, consider roleplaying like writing a novel. I won't detail on the role in such, but the characters in novels have to be detailed, otherwise the novel seems too unproviding with info, and seems too unrealistic. When I see a bio, that contains height, weight, race, colour of hair/ eyes, I can not imagine how the character would look like. However, when I describe my character in detail, people can form a mental image. And isn't this game just about that; making others imagine the story you're telling? I give a big NO against short descriptions, and I personally am saddened when I see people who have those. It feels too unrealistic for me, and in all honesty, they take the fun in roleplaying away for me. They make me feel like watching the Bold and the Beautiful. At least they are forthcoming with things.

Í dont know about you, but when I create my character I go through the various possible heads, so if my character has a large scar, i choose a face with a large scar and so on and so forth. What I cant choose is eye colour, precise weight and I have no say what so ever in height. If you get a detailed look at my character then you would notice these things, if you want to give a general description then look at my chosen avatar and describe it...

I like reading long descriptions, but I dont think the important part of my character is how exactly he looks. Its the story, how I interact with others. Personally I dont have any more fun roleplaying with a guy who has a detailed description on 5000 words then I have with one who just wrote "eyes: blue, weight: 231, height: 6.3". Thats just my take on it

I only describe what can't be seen on the mdel. I give a big NO to descriptions that are overly long and a pain in the ass to read.

I look at roleplaying as a novel, I read the description of your characters model first and then imagine the fine details using a combination of your portrait and character description.

If you look at novels like say the Harry Potter series as an example many characters don't even have descriptions yet I'm sure from what little details you do get you can imagine what they look like.

A description of X is'nt as important as how the character is played and how he interacts with others. Thats what makes a story. Have you ever read a novel with great detailed descriptions of characters but a boring story?

I don't mean put it in list form though. I prefer a paragraph or so describing what you need to know about a character that can't be seen on the model.

fixed code error

Would it be safe to say we are all in agreement that some sort of description of the characters appearance should be there, first and foremost?

Anything else, background, poetry, mannerisms, etc, are optional, but frowned on by many, ignored by most, and probably more rewarding for the writer than the reader?

And any or all of the above is prefered to nothing at all?

On that, yes.

A description, no matter how basic of complex people make it, should be there.

No background stories, no thoughts, no DC's, no OOCness, no blanks, no nonsense.

Coldburn I give a big NO against short descriptions, and I personally am saddened when I see people who have those. It feels too unrealistic for me, and in all honesty, they take the fun in roleplaying away for me.

If you force people to read through dozens of lines of text to get everything essential, you basically force them to go AFK for however long it takes to read that description. It can be disruptive to roleplaying, so people will usually just close your description and instead read it when they're idling in the corner of some inn where you happen to be at the same time. Unfortunately, by that time your character description could already have been needed.

Another thing to keep in mind is that you can't expect people to remember your description after they've read it once -- particularly if it's very detailed! -- so the abovementioned problem can become recurring. That's a real PITA in the long run.

Height * 1.83 m = about 6 feet tall.

So +/- a foot is about +/- 0.3 m (30 cm)

Example: 2.13 m = about 7 foot tall 1.52 m = about 5 foot tall 1.22 m = about 4 foot tall

Weight 100 kg = about 220 lbs.

+/- 10 kg is 22 pounds.

And LOL at these units being called, "American". We consider them to be the English system. We were told growing up in the 70s and 80s that we had to learn the SI (metric) system because everyone else did and we would be converting to it someday.

Hasn't happened, primarily because it's not cost effective to industries to retool/convert. Big cost, little to no measureable gain.

Isn't that why the Hubble Space Telescope was screwed up? Some scientists used one system and some used the other? And when they converted it created some minor rounding errors and significant digit problems that turned out to be a big deal?

I've made my most detailed character description ever due to this thread.. :)

Go Gwydon, it was made in britain wasn't it?

anyway, i think a description should just be what you can see, no past tales of ho you got to where you did, that should be saved for RP, waht i think should be included is a fairly detailed description of the characters build, face, any prominant marks and realy anything that distingueshes him / her, I think mannerisms are a thing that should be decided case by case, a lisp say should be RP'd whilst a limp shoul be put in the description to save endless amounts of *limps* from getting in the way of a chat, well thats my input.

I'm reading this whole thread and getting the feeling that:

The whole moral to the story here is to not call a person by their description. We all have our preferences, sure. I'm a believer in basic statistics and notable differences of a character on average. But that's not to say I don't like the epic ones, or the sweet and short.

Some great roleplayers may have had to skip on a character's description. New to the server? Short on time for a prelude? None of it necessarily means they didn't prepare their character to, at least, some effective degree. And, occasionally, there may be someone out there improvising a personality they know very well.

At the same time, yes - there are those that have an incredible run-on sentence in their description. Those that have a short, everyday "first-glance" biography. Some even have effective and concise descriptions, but they haven't thought further than how their character looks. His or her outlook on life could be built in the very instant that they log on to the server and begin meeting people. And in the end, it stinks.

The whole thread is like many other well debated threads, giving great ideas and provoking some of us to think about characters in a new "three-dimensional" way. Just be careful not to let any prejudices crowd your mind and decide your interaction with that player, y'know? Even someone who doesn't know english very well can be doing their best to roleplay and escape reality through a broken language. Who are we to tell them it has to be this way or that, to play with us?

The metric system is great, and much more comprehensive than the archaic other one!

Ad. long versus short descriptions: if you know how to write, you can get everything you need into a description of 5-6 sentences, even less, and they don't even have to be that ueber long. The rest belongs into the domain of emoting.

Emoting the particular hue of your worn skin or the sheen of your tears agleam slowly oozing down the rough cheeks, seeking their way and gliding over grease-filled pores in the graceful motion of a tango dancer makes it more likely to impose your vision of the character upon the players than cramping it all into the description few ever fully read.

In my opinion, the way you write the description is even more essential to the feel the character gives than what you actually write. I feel the stuff like eye and hair colour or the strawberry-sized tatoo on one of your left toenails is redundant, especially in the world of darkness, illusion and transmutation, all easily available in the minor extent required for such minor physique changes.

That's my two cents.

I like a good four or five sentence description telling me what I see when I look at a character. The "list" style kind of bugs me a bit but is better than nothing, especially for non-native english speakers or people who don't consider themselves very good writers. I'll admit to a certain amount of snobbishness in that if I see a blank or default description I'm likely to not really notice that character. It'll take some really good RPing for someone with a blank description to get my attention.

As for mannerisms in a description, I think some are quite appropriate. I can't count the number of times I've wished I'd included something saying that my character is probably smiling unless I emote otherwise. It would have saved me from typing *smiles* all the time.

Here's another question tossed out to the DMs, similar to the one in the changing faiths section: If players want to change their physical description, would it be OK if they sent you a tell in-game? I'm not asking for DMs to rewrite descriptions to players -- simply paste text into the description field for them. I'm not sure how feasible this is, so feel free to shoot this one down if it's too much of a hassle. I'm inspired by this thread to make a few changes to Thunderkeg and Talia's descriptions to make it easier for players to find out essential characteristics about them. And if there was some sort of tool for players to do it themselves, I'd be in RP heaven.

Concerning height and weight conversions, why not just use descriptive adjectives? They're short, easy, and require very little math, which is always a plus for me.

And I'm with Outcrowd when it comes to mannerisms. One of my characters is a bit of a cripple. He's constantly complaining about people walking too quickly, but it's much less intrusive to mention his limp in the character description than to spam *limps along* every time he walks by someone new. I also try to include obvious speaking styles in my character descriptions and appreciate it when others do as well since most people don't emote how their characters deliver individual lines.

It's possible to LETO new descriptions for characters, but it requires a lot of work. I'd rather see Arkov working on new things [cracks whip] and see the DM's entertain other players, instead of LETO'ing that your character has a black eye, and that two days later, his face isn't bruised anymore.

I think Quasimofo was thinking of things like changing the description to reflect time spent in game. I'm not sure how fast time progresses IG but it might be nice to occasionally update your description if the character has been around for a while and changed because of it.

You always stutter that much?

24 hours in-game represent 24 hours out-of-game. 1 passed hour in EFU means 1 passed hour in the real, bad world. So I don't reckon permanent changes would happen that soon.

I.e. a 20 year old girl who's be 60 years old the following month.