Home > Suggestions

Age Effects

We have many debilitating effects that can be applied to characters... Instant death, debilitating poisons and disease, petrification, level drains... But why not scripted magical aging effects?

d20 rules give us the basics for this. Middle age results in -1 to all physical stats and +1 to all mental. Old Age is -3/+2 and Venerable Age is -6/+3. The ranges for these age groupings are also listed for each standard race.

See here: http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm

I see it working two different ways.

First, an effect might steal years based on a fixed die roll, say 1d20 years per attack. This would give a natural advantage to the longer lived races to avoid the penalties of magical aging.

Second, an effect would steal years based on a percentage of total life. For instance, the average maximum lifespan of a human is 81 years (max lifespan is 72-90 years). The average maximum lifespan of an elf is 552 years (max lifespan is between 354 and 750 years). An effect might steal 10% of one's life at a time. Roughly 8 years for a human and 55 for an elf. Thus bringing the effect to be more equal for each race.

Since one or two drains doesn't necessarily put you into the next category of aging, I would further suggest these drains be persistant, even across resets. The only cure for them being Restoration. Of course, death and ressurection would also negate the effects. Naturally, negative energy protection would protect against the drain, as well as a save vs negative energy.

Death, would of course be a real risk here. If you are drained beyond the average maximum lifespan for your race, you must save vs death or die. If you are drained beyond the absolute maximum age, you die immediately, no save. It is here that certain races would still maintain an advantage over others. A human, for example in the second aging system would have a maximum of about 8 drains before they must save vs death, 9 drains before reaching automatic death. An elf, on the other hand, would have about 7 drains before having to save against death, but would have about 11 drains before guaranteed death.

This would make for an excellent challenge for adventurers on a quest, not to mention the hilarity of watching a bunch of young men and women go of on an adventure, only to come back a day later looking like they'd been gone for decades or centuries. Imagine slowly working your way through the laboratory of an evil wizard whose experimental creatures slowly drain away your remaining years. With each year drained from your party, the ancient wizard grows younger and stronger. Thus the more your party is drained, the more difficult the boss becomes. Both because you are weaker and because he is stronger.

The implimentation of this entire system would, of course, mean that all characters would be subject to the benefits and penalties implied by their age.

As a result, certain of our servers characters might take unexpected stat adjustments. The only fair way of dealing with this that I can see would be to allow such characters a one time opportunity to change their base age. This could be provided in the character menu. Beyond this, it would be smart perhaps to add an object to interact with in the OOC character creation area to allow them to alter their age if they are unexpectedly effected by the age they chose. In fact it may be best just to leave the age altering to this OOC area and if a character is unexpectedly effected by this if it is implimented, they simply need to grab a DM to port them so they can change it themselves.

As always, please feel free to agree or disagree, but give reasons to back your opinion.

I think the only character who would have aged more than a year would be KYLE FOX, DEFENDER. Seems like a waste of time and scripting potential, and I'd rather see them update the module than script something that adds little 'roleplaying' besides "I'm getting old, I have to give up my character because he's too successful and lived for a long time". Most characters live 6 months, if even that. Your aging thing would do little to the majority of the players, and ultimately lead to an increase in lag, disatisfaction, and a decrease in productivity on the side of the DMs.

Primarily intended as an effect to be applied to characters on quests. Given that the server runs real time, nobody would ever age appreciably.

I suppose for some fun metaplot it would be useful, but other than that I cant see it adding any real benefits to the server except people ranting about dying to old age

That makes it even worse. If it is a spell, who would cast it? You can't script these spells in, hardcoded. If it's supposed to be because fighting takes a long time, server continuity is completely ruined. If only NPcs can cast the spell, then you'd need to deal with the consequences, such as what type of monsters would be casting it? And as such, people would avoid these quests due to this ridiculous system. I say ridiculous because it is. It adds nothing beneficial to the server but adds more penalties and a greater risk of death. Death is already a real issue, you don't need to add other arbitrary issues to make death a more 'real' issue. I cannot see -any- "good RP" opportunities that cannot already be done manually by the DMs. Daz has it, in that it would lead only to more bitching about death.

maybe if it was part of a plot, like Daz said. Plus, I think we should be able to trust one another to roleplay our age, and it is a game so mechanical issues shouldn't be too big a deal. This kind of reminds me of a suggestion to slow down the walking speed of those wearing heavy armor. While realistic, it's unfun. :?

Honestly, it's far safer than any current death mechanism besides the HP system.

How many instant death effects are there in the game? Lots. you get one chance and you're dead.

This system gives your standard starting human character 8 times to even be anywhere near dying and is easily countered by several simple mechanics. Restoration spells and negative energy protection.

Nobody will ever log in and find they've aged 10 years... unless this server manages to stay up for 10 years. Even then I'm not even advocating manual natural aging. You put 25 in your age field when you start and that is what it will be till you quit.

As to what creatures get it? Maybe certain undead as an on hit ability, or entirely new creatures in a similar manner. It might even be a trap effect.

FleetingHeart d20 rules give us the basics for this. Middle age results in -1 to all physical stats and +1 to all mental.
Besides, this isn't accurate IMO. Intelligence represents the ability to learn and process information, not the quantity of information you possess. The second increases with age, the first doesn't. Someone can't be more intelligent at 50 than he is at 25. However, I do think most people become wiser with age.

So I believe there would be rather a decrease in physical stats (not the same decrease for all three) and an increase in wisdom.

Anonymous
FleetingHeart d20 rules give us the basics for this. Middle age results in -1 to all physical stats and +1 to all mental.
Besides, this isn't accurate IMO. Intelligence represents the ability to learn and process information, not the quantity of information you possess. The second increases with age, the first doesn't. Someone can't be more intelligent at 50 than he is at 25. However, I do think most people become wiser with age.

So I believe there would be rather a decrease in physical stats (not the same decrease for all three) and an increase in wisdom.

Intelligence does tend to be a representation of how much you know. Take Skill Points as an example. The higher your int, the more skills you can be a master of.

Charisma makes just as much sense, as people generally learn how to deal with others more effectively as they age. This is also represented in the d20 system.

Seems pointless to me.

Nickless Seems pointless to me.

That came off a bit rude, I apologise. It just doesn't seem feasible, or practical, as others have said, and I would dearly like to see DM time spent elsewhere.

We have our men working 24/7 devising fat traps.

FleetingHeart

Intelligence does tend to be a representation of how much you know. Take Skill Points as an example. The higher your int, the more skills you can be a master of.

Intelligence determines how well your character learns and reasons.

How well he learns, not how much he knows. We are talking of the ability to learn and reason, and this ability doesn't improve with old age. With very old age, it would actually decrease.

Charisma makes just as much sense, as people generally learn how to deal with others more effectively as they age.
Nowhere is this mentioned, whether it is irl or in a rp game. Actually, if anything old people tend to grow more gruff and introspective when they age. Besides, as Charisma represents partially physical attractiveness, it is possible the score would be reduced with age also.

One hour in Sanctuary is one hour IRL. So Kyle Fox would have aged 1 year. Wyric Crowshire almost 3. We don't need this, other than for some odd-ball aging spell/ effect that I quite frankly've never heard of in D&D before. Scripting this would be very difficult as well, I expect, especially for something scarcely, if ever used at all.

Anonymous One hour in Sanctuary is one hour IRL. So Kyle Fox would have aged 1 year. Wyric Crowshire almost 3. We don't need this, other than for some odd-ball aging spell/ effect that I quite frankly've never heard of in D&D before. Scripting this would be very difficult as well, I expect, especially for something scarcely, if ever used at all.
I don't know who you are, but you've got some serious issues if you try to degrade an excellent suggestion like that in such a childish manner. If you can't be polite, gtfo you moronic asshat. Seriously, it's people like you that tick me off you goddamn idiot. Smart choice, btw, to post as someone anonymous, hiding like a coward behind your little secrecy. Well screw you, dude. No one cares about you and I hope you die.

"I'm no hero. Never was, never will be. I'm just an old killer hired to do some wetwork."

Would absolutely love to see enforced aging, advanced aging, magical aging, all that stuff, with the aforementioned benefits and penalties. Would be very interesting.

Edit: I wonder if there's a Godwin's Law for the phrase:

"It's people like you that ____".

Geez, Coldburn, take a chill pill bro.

numnumnumnumnum

Coldburn If you can't be polite, gtfo you moronic asshat. Seriously, it's people like you that tick me off you goddamn idiot. Smart choice, btw, to post as someone anonymous, hiding like a coward behind your little secrecy. Well screw you, dude. No one cares about you and I hope you die.

Although i do abide by the general idea of this post, which seems to be 'please stay polite', i'm not sure this is the best way to phrase your answer.

Keep cool. Enjoy a game. You know the drill...

Aaaanyhoo....

As stated, the actual bonuses and penalties are strictly layed out in d20 rules. Whether or not you agree with the reasoning behind them, they are as they are. Age causes a decrease in physical (str, dex, con) stats and increase in mental (int, wis, cha) stats. This has been the case since DnD version 1 and continues on through the version we currently play within, version 3.

Obviously this person who refuses to identify themselves has no regard for this and should be ignored. If you have a valid reason for not liking this suggestion, fine, say so. But this is not a place for rants. Rude and childish behavior will never move a discussion forward... rather it just makes people dislike you.

Also, just to reiterate what is already stated in the very first post...

This is not meant to be a penalty incurred for having long standing characters. It is not a suggestion for automated progression of your character's age.

It is simply a suggestion to apply age rules to everyone and to allow for such age effects to be temporarily applied to a character via curses/traps/magical effects.

If you want age effects, app for it for your character.

I don't see a reason to implement it. (despise Fleetingheart's excellent arguments, I want to play an old bastard with a con penalty, thank you.)

It is my personal opinion that this suggestion should not be implemented. My reasoning is as follows.

If we create temporary aging effects. These would need to be very detailed in their explination to the player about what actually is happening to their character. These traps would be unable to show the visible change in the model; Therefore, it would require the player to play along (assuming they understand what is happening, and have the maturity to pull it off) because of this, I would be against having these situations happen outside DM supervision.

If automated, then those effects would need to be able to decide if that person is already old or not. They would be incorrect anyway as the benefits gained from the aging are acquired through the sheer amount of experience you have had in the world, having your body aged would not effect your mind.

In either case, the addition of aging statistics would create a precedent in that the age value placed on your character at creation would apply the correct bonus' and penalties automatically. If it didn't, then playing a middle-aged through ancient character would require an application, which seems like irrelevant paper work for both players and DMs over a few simple stats. This is further befuddled when the statistical changes do not aid nor hinder your ability to Roleplay an old character.

Personally, I wouldn't think that going through the scripting would be worth the result. And I am not sold on the correctness of the aging bonus and penalties to depict age accurately. We are a neverwinter nights server, so honestly, the fact that it is in the PnP rules doesn't set any precedent here.

I am am against adding -scripted- effects that force a person to role play their character in a designated way.

Ebok's avatar is right.

Coldburn
Anonymous One hour in Sanctuary is one hour IRL. So Kyle Fox would have aged 1 year. Wyric Crowshire almost 3. We don't need this, other than for some odd-ball aging spell/ effect that I quite frankly've never heard of in D&D before. Scripting this would be very difficult as well, I expect, especially for something scarcely, if ever used at all.
I don't know who you are, but you've got some serious issues if you try to degrade an excellent suggestion like that in such a childish manner. If you can't be polite, gtfo you moronic asshat. Seriously, it's people like you that tick me off you goddamn idiot. Smart choice, btw, to post as someone anonymous, hiding like a coward behind your little secrecy. Well screw you, dude. No one cares about you and I hope you die.

Please do not conduct yourself in this sort of way, or you too will earn a temporary forum ban, the same as Coldy.

FleetingHeart Aaaanyhoo....

As stated, the actual bonuses and penalties are strictly layed out in d20 rules. Whether or not you agree with the reasoning behind them, they are as they are. Age causes a decrease in physical (str, dex, con) stats and increase in mental (int, wis, cha) stats. This has been the case since DnD version 1 and continues on through the version we currently play within, version 3.

Obviously this person who refuses to identify themselves has no regard for this and should be ignored. If you have a valid reason for not liking this suggestion, fine, say so. But this is not a place for rants. Rude and childish behavior will never move a discussion forward... rather it just makes people dislike you.

You are really a moron if you pretend that nobody should listen to my arguments just because I was too lazy to log in. I don't give a sh*t about whatever some clueless guy wrote in 5 minutes because he had to finish his book quickly. This concept is BS, and this is why it shouldn't be applied in EFU, which is supposed to be as realistic as possible.

I think age could get some interesting RP. I don't really think that you need to get those penalties, however. If you want to play someone old, just make your basic ability scores to fit that.

Say, I have an old fighter. If he was old, I might give him something like maybe 10 strength, or something that the 'younger' group of people don't have. Maybe even constitution. I'm all for the old people. Sorta against the ability penalties, though.

Perhaps at least an aging modification on character creation, similar to the stat modifications to race. When the character is created have the age actually modify the characteristics. This way if you want to play an old, vulnerable, wizened, scholarly type you can.

Just a thought...

Denko

You are really a moron if you pretend that nobody should listen to my arguments just because I was too lazy to log in. I don't give a sh*t about whatever some clueless guy wrote in 5 minutes because he had to finish his book quickly. This concept is BS, and this is why it shouldn't be applied in EFU, which is supposed to be as realistic as possible.

I really don't care if you log in or not. My issue is in the way you are conducting yourself. Whether or not your argument is valid is a moot point. You are acting like a child and I tend to ignore petulent children and their temper tantrums.

Go back to your book and take a break if you're going to be so hostile. Your attitude is not needed here.

I agree with aging effects and think it should apply to all races. your age should be determined via a place in the ooc starting area. (So it can go on top of subraces.)

Such things as aging can already be roleplayed accordingly, as a personal quirk of a character.

Personally, I will continue to play my characters with the superhuman ability to withstand 20 greatsword swings, regardless of their apparent age.

ROFL!

Please stop fighting. You should either talk about the suggestion, or don't say anything. Name calling and other bickering will lead to things warned about in this very thread.

MAPPLE

As the progression of time in EFU is linear, such an addition is not really necessary or even like to be common. If you wish to play an older character, you can attempt to represent this by raising or lowering certain stats at creation.