Which class do you think is the most difficult core class to get to say 6th or 7th level without dieing? I’m not talking multi-classing, I’m talking straight single class character.

I have two reasons for asking: 1) To maybe see if there is a reason this class is so difficult to get rolling. 2) Maybe I will try to play this hard to survive class.

Note: I left the fighter class off because I couldn't add 11 poll options and I assumed he would not be the winner of this poll.

Monks just suck. There's no way around it. They are bad mechanically until high levels, and even at high levels can be easily outpaced by everyone.

Sorcerers have a terrible amount of spells they can cast at low levels, combined with slow spell progression. It's only once they reach the higher levels that they really start to shine

While monks aren't difficult to level, they often don't bring much to the table unless they have great gear/consumables. They do have decent survivability though, mostly due to stealth. Really, their greatest downfall is their AB progression. Given our low level range, perhaps it can be scripted that they receive an AB bonus equal to their Wisdom bonus on top of their STR, or DEX if they took Weapon Finesse. In this way, they could perhaps be made less gear dependent. But as it stands right now, they have a Cleric's or Druid's AB progression, both of whom get Class abilities to improve this. Druids even get a bonus when in the wild that puts them on par with a fighter. Monks don't have a way to make up for this, and as a result I find they just cannot hit anything at low levels. Worse still, in my opinion, is that they cannot really improve their damage at low levels without losing a class ability. They are locked into 1d8 for the majority of our level range. They do not get the strength benefit that a two hander would get unless they equip a quarterstaff... which then negates Flurry of Blows. This wouldn't normally be the case, as Flurry of Blows could be used with -any- monk weapon, not jut Kamas and fists.

Really though, a +2 or 3 to AB from the start would not be unbalancing, I don't think. Monks still need to split their abilities between STR, DEX, and WIS to be well built.

Wizards, however, I would view as being the most difficult to get rolling. No armor. No stealth. No invis for a few levels. And, worst of all, a heavy dependance upon pre-preparation. You need to know what to expect in order to prepare decent spells for the situation. Most wizards I see who are caught off guard have to resort to Haste/Expeditions retreat + Invis if they can. They truly don't need help though, because when they -are- prepared, they can wreck things quickly.

Monks can get pretty sick items though, they have stealth, Flurry of Blows is pretty amazing, and monks have universally awesome saves. The class as a whole has very few weaknesses, but then alternatively, very few strengths.

Let's not forget some of the amazing feats monks can get too! ImpKD at level 6, disease IMMUNITY at level 5, +2 vs ALL mind spells at level 3, cleave, deflect arrows, AND they run really friggen fast. Also, they can take Tumble and make it effective (+1 AC at level 2, +2 at 7, +3 at 12) which eventually lets them have Mobility for free (basically).

A buffed, Imp Expertise monk is probably the most untouchable a PC can get. Throw in some feats for saving throw bonuses and you're even better.

Wizard has my vote, Oona took the words right out my mouth. I'm finding my wizard to be a pain, the limited amount of spells, very low hp, (i don't know how many times I've been KO'ed in one hit) not to mention alot of the more powerful spells are either AOE(Burning Hands, Chain Lightning) which hurts your teammates as well, or require you to be as close to the action as a fighter, (Combust) and pulls horrid aggro.

Of course there are other spells such as Magic Missle or Melfs Acid Arrow, but considering most of the dungeons consist of multiple low hp enemies, I rarely feel like an asset to the party, having to balance my spells between twanging my bow. Also, because you cannot rest without a bedroll or outside of the Inn, I'm beginning to question the usefulness of a Wizard altogether on this server. Being prepared does make a difference, but during first 2-7 levels prepare for some hurt.

/rant

I haven't tried a Monk in a very long time and not at all on EfU, so I have no idea how they handle.

A low level mage isn't supposed to cast offensive spells, especially if he has to get close to the ennemy. He is supposed to buff, period. Buff and stay back during battle, using ranged weapons so at least it looks like he is doing something. When played with a minimum of caution, mages are the easiest class to level.

A fighter or just about any melee class is far easier to level then a mage, unless by "easy" you mean barely contributing and watching others do all the work. I know you aren't supposed to be in the thick of things, but if we are talking in terms of what class is hardest to play then I have to disagree.

*a big sigh*

Man, you guys just talk about mages and fighters. I find my character, Trinden, to be a blast to play, even though he played pick-up crew when he did the Duergar clan quest. So, mages, yeah, they can be hard to play, but...

I don't know where I'm going with this, but in my opinion, classes such as monks, rangers, and barbarians are hard for me to play, as I do not know how to even make a decent build. That's why I like to play the characters that stay in the back that shoot crossbows and bows, which never really get any better as you progress through the game (if your a halfling or gnome: They pwn. nuff said) unless your an archer with strength, and I think that's just weird.

I went with sorcerer. In low level environments, they are basically just a worse version of a wizard.

Oldaric A fighter or just about any melee class is far easier to level then a mage, unless by "easy" you mean barely contributing and watching others do all the work. I know you aren't supposed to be in the thick of things, but if we are talking in terms of what class is hardest to play then I have to disagree.

Of course, the same apply for anyone that fights with ranged weapons.

Personally the worst class I have to say is Monk. I have to tell you that once my lvl 4 ftr/cleric almost pwned a lvl 9 monk that has been playing for ages. The thing is monks are good for RP but kind of suck in combat.

ALSO WHY IS EVERYONE VOTEING BARDS!? Bards hands down are FTW a bards are the shit!

Monks are really quite good.

For me, it's Barbarian. Wizards and Sorcs, you're hiding in the back, able to invis/ run away at a moment's notice, I see them (especially Wizard) as some of the easiest classes to play. Barbarians, however, are expected to charge everything with next to no AC. Mostly a personal thing, I just find them impossible!

I've tried quite a few of the classes, and have to say that my bard died the most - I've respawned her countless times. This is because its a melee bard.

Fireballs, traps, and critical hits frequently send her Fugueward because of the Bard 1d6 hitdice, even with 14 constitution. There's not much room for mistakes or ill luck with those kind of hitpoints when you're pretending to be a fighter.

lol, core

Are you guys crazy?

I managed to get a Monk to level 7 and only died twice.

TWICE.

ME

Monks have incredible survivability. That's all it really takes to get to level 7.

Frankly, I'd say a Paladin is the toughest to level up. Between not being able to quest with evil, and practically being obligated to be a hero when things get rough, a paladin should have the hardest time really levelling.

Because core lacks class.

Kotenku Are you guys crazy?

I managed to get a Monk to level 7 and only died twice.

TWICE.

ME

Monks have incredible survivability. That's all it really takes to get to level 7.

Frankly, I'd say a Paladin is the toughest to level up. Between not being able to quest with evil, and practically being obligated to be a hero when things get rough, a paladin should have the hardest time really levelling.

I've got to agree with Kotenku. :shock:

Because of their faith and oath, paladins are challenging; they -are- heroes and tend to lead from the front, putting themselves at most risk. That and the difficulty of who they can and can't associate with puts them right up there, IMHO.

I would say Wizards or Sorcerers merely because you need to really look at the group you quest with. You need frontliners to buff. If you make a sending and no shieldmen show up, gee, what are you going to do?

If you are on with few people and all you can find are 2 rogues who shoot arrows you might not want to quest so much.

A frontliner with good AC need not think too much about what classes are in the group.

Those two classes are much easier when you know there are frontliners around, say in your faction or if your friend you always play with is your bodyguard.

Everytime I've played a paladin, I skyrocket in NPC destruction and levels+Loot gaining. They are immune the the worst killers out there, have awesome saves, and are basically a fighter with the ability to use wands, topped off with some super handy undead bashing skills. Paladins are in my opinion, one of the easiest classes to level, even if they don't stand toe to toe with a fighter in PvP.

Really the key to survival is really about knowing what you can and cannot do. If you're a low hp bard, don't pretend your not by leading the charge into the enemy. If you're a wizard, hide, use the crossbow, soak xpz. Really, the answer to this post is a matter of play styles for most people. They just don't know how to, or don't want to, play their classes as they need too, in order to survive.

So the question really comes down to, what classes have the least ability to rock? Which... Monk and Sorcerer are on that end of the spectrum. If Monks could multiclass... well, Yummy. But thats not my point, my point is they can easily survive most things so long as you know your place in a conflict. Whereas... Sorcerers... Well they just spam a few spells and are done, if you're lucky then the group will actually need the spells your spamming! So, since Sorcerers have the overall suvivability of a wizard, do not have the ability to prepare for a certain situation, and still don't have anywhere near enough spells per day, They get my vote.

Strictly mechanically monks are pretty poor in general at low levels.

Add in RP and mechanics and I'd vote for paladin and druid to be the harder ones to level.

All the other classes it depends how you play/build them.

I believe screwing up builds for each class should remain out of the discussion, imo... but here's my thinking...

Out of the casting classes, since rangers, paladins, druids and clerics at least can be expected buff themselves and/or hit things well in combat with decent hp and are not even close to being hard. Which leaves bards, wizards and sorcerers. Well, bards can get a decent amount of armor and get shields while having the benefits of its own class as well as stealth, making healing wands, etc so I am going to have to leave them out as well. Not buffing fast enough and not being able to cast certain things are apparently good reasons for any generally wacked PCs to not like you. Wizards have the privilege of usually having access to the wanted buffs. Sorcerers usually get to suffer "You are a wizard!" syndrome from other players and constantly get asked if they are good at lore (int based skill, wooo!) or ask them to cast a buff they can't do. Melee wizards/sorcerers tend to start sucking at level 6 and are reduced to buffbots until they get to 7/8 if they want to polymorph self / use stoneskin / etc. I have a wizard and I can safely say it is much easier than a sorcerer class. Sorcerer is the hardest class to play, and playing one to level up requires a -very- careful selection of spells.

As far as the non-casting classes I believe pure rogues aren't too great, as having low hp, less ab, and the lovely situation of facing sneak-immune mobs. Same goes for low level monks, although soon as you get to 6 with the right build you start going LOLBANGKNOCKDOWNCANTTOUCHTHIS when buffed with expertise/imp expertise. So rogue... because we all know they fail the save on that fireball on goblin camp =(.

Sorcerers are undoubtedly the least powerful class on EFU.

As for hardest to survive on low levels, I'd say probably say its a toss up between the pure rogue and wizards/sorcerers.

Of course, something like this is hard to quantify due to there being so many variables, such as the build/equipment/player skill/luck.

Denko A low level mage isn't supposed to cast offensive spells, especially if he has to get close to the ennemy. He is supposed to buff, period. Buff and stay back during battle, using ranged weapons so at least it looks like he is doing something. When played with a minimum of caution, mages are the easiest class to level.

I don't even use the ranged weapon, draws attention. There are a number of ways that low level mages can be effective without getting anywhere near combat. People are knocking on sorcerers too. I've had some really effective sorcerer builds that focused on conjuration, illusion, enchantment. I think there is probably an effective build in all of the schools. As long as you follow the number one rule, stay out of combat. A monk does not get this option.

I'd say monks are a bit tough on the first 5lvls, then they start to shine at 6+.

Wizards are by far the easiest class to lvl, as you're not expected to fight (hence die)+ you've easy escapes with invisibility.

Clerics can fight, heal, and buff, so that's pretty easy too.

Rogues are tricky, because scouting can be rough, and ranged weapons attrack attention.

Fighters i find very versatile, as a fight can go wrong in a sec, and they are the first to be felled in that case.

As a whole i'd say it's not the class that determines the difficulty of lvling, it's the caution of the PC/player, and in that regards, barbarians and paladins have an inherant weakness.

My vote also goes with the rogue. So many things can happen which are out of your control, such as your group attacking monsters while you are trying to disable a trap for them. On the other side of things, a wizard can be too easy. Buff your party and stand back, collecting xp. As far as monks go, it just depends on the player, really. Who you venture out with can make a huge difference, as can your build. A cleric and a wizard in your party can buff you to near unhittable status, but if you get cocky and try playing a tank, you will go down fast. Really just depends on what you want your monk to do, as you can build with strength, dexterity, or wisdom, or try to balance all three.

I am shocked people chose bard. They are hard if you want to play a melee character, damn effective if done well, but requiring much skill. But if you just buy a crossbow, buff a bit and sing you are still a useful addition to most parties, that song stacks with just about everything. You add a curse song and you are damn handy, and the character is so easy to play you can watch TV and play with one hand most of the time.

Pure spell casters suffer on this server for stack of reasons.

A) They only get moving at level 7 for a wizard and level 8 for a sorc. Until this point they are like clerics who have no AC or AB, all they do is buff and stay away from the sharp bits. On a server where the average level is probably 7, most casters never hit their stride.

B) There are heaps of items out there that emulate wizard spells that anyone can use. Firstly there are loot items that do colour sprays, summons, direct damage etc. etc. And then there are wands and potions. If your tank can cast a few colour sprays, fire of a lighting bolt, summon a few level two summons every sleep and owns a wand of hold person, the pure caster suddenly looks a bit lame.

C) There is very little in the way of equipment that helps them specifically in the basic efu loot tables. Sure there are some plus spell slot items, but they are far and few between. A tank can emulate a caster with dropped loot, wands and potions, but a mage/sorc will never emulate a tank, unless they have a stack of tensors up their sleeve (and yes I know they have polymorph, still doesn’t help).

D) They are bad at PvP. Sure, they have some great spells. Sure they gank fine - inviso/HP/direct damage or inviso/PhK etc etc. But ganking makes you feel bad and you get more love from your peers if you face your foe with a bit of trash talk first. Head to head they suffer from the KD problem. With darkness nurfed here you have exactly one get out of jail free card, invisibility. Not surprisingly then, see invisibility is a popular potion/wand to have hotkeyed. That is if you get up from the first KD at all. Other classes for a mere 90 coins can gank you with equal ease - pot of inviso/KD. Toe to toe you need to get some spells off to win, which that AoO may prevent in the first instance, but even if you play well your unbuffed opponent is usually more than a match for you, since all they have to do is get close. Moreover a protection from alignment will almost certainly destroy you if they can guess right first time, since HP/HM/PhK etc etc all become meaningless. If you are awesome you can inviso and move, then cast dispel on the PfA and SI they drank first round; then invis and move again, summon to harass them; move some more, check if they found the PfA/SI hotkey again, if they did dispel again, otherwise crowd control and so on. It can be done but it's hard, damn hard.

E) If you are a wizard you need to decide each sleep if you are doing PvE or PvP. You have different spell sets for each. Invariably PvP happens when you don’t have the right spell set, or worse still you are walking back from a static where you used all your spells, and all you have left are wands and potions which your paladin/ ranger/rogue/cleric/druid/bard opponent has as well. The sorcerer is worse, their spell set is so limited they are either PvP or PvE characters, they cannot do both.

So sorcerer gets the prize for me. Lack of spell choice is too annoying - more spells a day does not beat the flexibility of the wizard - and to make things worse they are one spell rank behind wizards. Yuck.

First of all, I'd like to step up in the bards defense. First and foremost, despite their pathetic ability to do damage in any way, they can constantly buff every member of their party. At later levels this ability becomes absolutely amazing, and can easily be the difference between life or death for a party in a tight spot. Also, they can take Pale Master as a prestige class at their FOURTH LEVEL! That is ridiculous. Of course, you still have to send in an app, but it's still cool.

Now then, for my hardest to play class, never tried a sorceror, don't want to. I'm going to have to say Barbarian, because, while you get hitpoints, even in the heaviest armor you can wear and with your 10% Damage Immunity, you get hit twice as much if not more than everyone else! Ulgar Ulgarsson, my only longtime barbarian, took heavy armor and wore full plate. He still took hits, but that was player error, not poor Ulgar. So, IMO, barbs sucketh. Fighter ftw, and all that jazz.

Personaly, sorcerers have a survivability of like nada compared to other charactors. Some things that effect this are A: Sorcerers do not get a wizards bonus feats B: Sorcerers canno't select a school. C: Sorcerers actualy have a higher argo generator then any other class. I play a rogue/sorcerer and even sneaking, if I pop out after a fighter has engaged like say a volt queen, Im still the first one its going to target with its lightning spells and thats befor I start attacking. Often you can find yerself charged by things like gnoll elites straight through large groups of offensive fighters simply because you have a sorc lvl. D: Inability to learn from scrolls. This sucks because as stated befor it drops yer spell list to nada. This means untill you hit six you do not have an effective large group attack spell. And beleave me Acid arrow is not going to help against a bunch of goblins.

I think this poll is strange, Monks and Sorcerers should definitely not be among the most difficult classes to play on EfU.

Monks are quite good, just don't expect to play them like tankers and still hold a high chance of survival, unless they are buffed up by their own potions or the buffs of spellcasting allies.

As for Sorcerers, they are not worse than Wizards and in fact are sometimes much better, they can be better buffers, better at offensive spells and most sane Sorcerers and Wizards do not go off into PvP alone.

In my opinion, Fighters, Rangers (if they are melee Rangers), Barbarians and Paladins are more difficult to play than the other classes, but in the end I think it is not the class that is the main problem, I have played four Paladins and all of them got owned in PvP, but I still hear of other players pwning with them, thus I do think it was more due to my own failure and the lack of consumables, in EfU the difficulty of nearly every class all depends on how much consumables, potions and buffs you have and how well you use them.

Those of you who have found some of these classes difficult might likely have failed in getting many of these consumables or perhaps forgotten to use them and might have not have had any spellcasting allies to buff you. While those of you who have pwned with these same classes were likely to have been better prepared.

Remember, consumables are your friends. Use them when you need to, do not keep them, I have forgotten this many times and I get killed.

Wern8

Remember, consumables are your friends. Use them when you need to, do not keep them, I have forgotten this many times and I get killed.

The right consumables can make -any- class nigh unstoppable. Which is why you have to look at the classes from the perspective of -only- their base abilities.

I can't agree that sorcerers are weaker than a wizard though. They simply have to focus more with their spell selection. Either focus on Summoning, Damage spells, or plain old fashioned buffing and a sorcerer is going to do extremely well. They get a lot of casts per day, they just need a little help staying alive and that generally requires someone to take the hits for them. Just as a rogue needs someone to take the hits so that they can do good damage.

Oona

The right consumables can make -any- class nigh unstoppable. Which is why you have to look at the classes from the perspective of -only- their base abilities.

If we want to talk about the classes from the perspective of only their base abilities, then Paladins in my opinion are the weakest of them all.

Sure they have high saves, BAB as high as Fighters/Rangers/Barbarians and they are effective against undead and enemies that enjoy using abilities and spells which makes you roll a saving throw against, but they are tough to build, they lack combat feats that fighters get and fighters can be build to have saves nearly as high as Paladins without losing much in combat capabilities, the extra strength from rage and damage reduction that barbarians get, as for Rangers I admit they are not really better at all, but they do not suffer from RP restrictions and could be played out as a stealth character.

Paladins are truly very weak without buffs and consumables, if you want a high AC build which includes expertise, you must give up high saves, unless you gimp up the build. If you go for a divine strength/divine might build you will need level 8 at least to be effective.

All this though is without buffs/consumables and with a Pure Paladin build (I'm not talking about Fighter/Paladins), if they have lots of buffs/consumables they can be very powerful.

Regarding paladins:

Being immune to disease and fear tends to be pretty nice on EfU. Maybe a paladin can't tank at the frontline as well as a fighter or barbarian without being powerbuilt, but having good saving throws and immunity to a couple things like that, not to mention the awesomeness of Lay on Hands, really compensates.

However, due to the RP constraints of always working for the greater good, etc., I would say they are definitely more difficult than the other full AB classes. My only paladin was my shortest-lived character because he could not retreat and let others be hurt as a consequence.

Let's not forget smite evil, either. It can be a pretty nice ability to have.

And, I would have to retract my previous answer about sorcerers being the most difficult to play. I answered that way because I consider sorcerers to be the mechanically weakest class, but they are not actually all that difficult to play. You just have to know how to stay out of the way in combat. Not sure what I'd go with now. Might actually be paladin or monk, even though both of those seem more powerful than sorcerer by a large margin.

I am absolutely amazed that people think sorcerers are better than wizards and that paladins are the toughest class mechanically.

I think, lower level, Sorcerer>Wizard. More spells is more survivability, but as levels increase, Wizards have an upper hand, when it comes to versatility, buffs and general happy mechanics. No idea where the Paladin mechanics is coming from, though. From what I gather, in a low level setting, they are rather like a fighter, with 'happy health' buffs. :shock: I understand, from and RP point of view, Paladins are hard to play due to restrictions, but I can't see how they are hard to play from a mechanical pov.

saying sorcerers are better than wizards is like saying dirt is better than hot dogs

paladins being weak mechanically is like a joke LOL

Due to the nature of the Underdark, playing a paladin is very difficult to do correctly.

Survival-wise and combat-wise - the Monk is truly difficult. I played a sorcerer, and if you pick the right spells, it really ain't that difficult. Monks need alot of help to advance, and they aren't that tough 'till the more advance levels.

To step up in defense of wizards, it's not always easy to gank an effective wizard. Yes, I do find they rather suck for questing unless they just buff bot. But a lvl 8 fighter with an aura against evil and KD is only one click away to a wizard who has taken the time to learn some of the fun mechanics changes around here.

Oooh, AKMatt's interpretation of "most difficult to play" is interesting. Sorcerors aren't complicated. Monks are probably the most "difficult" to play.

Or, for AKMatt, melee transmuters. >.> But that's just him. Crazy!

Melee sorcerer at 6-7 is all retarded, there is no class harder to play without a powerbuild, spell focus feats, or something I seem to be missing. Everyone thinking melee paladin/barbarian/rangers/fighters are hard is laughable, as they don't really have to deal with anyone feeling like smacking them in the face and stomping them if they can get away with it in 2 seconds. PVP exists.

Wizards/Sorcerers can make quite effective melee builds, but like any other class if caught unprepared and unbuffed against a buffed opponent, they're basically guaranteed to go down.

I think some of the misconceptions about certain classes might be cleared up from a different look at things.

The CORE classes are thus: Wizard, Fighter, Rogue, Priest. ie. Magic, Tank, Damage, Healing. They are versatile and can be made into just about anything you want. They have no RP restrictions whatsoever and you are free to specialize them in any way you want.

Everything else is, by it's nature, slightly mixed or just pre specialized. Druid: Fighter/Priest with an RP twist. Ranger: Fighter/Rogue Sorcerer: A highly specialized Wizard due to the lack of spell selection... not so much a mix, really, but they should be approached from this point of view. Paladin: Fighter/Priest with an RP twist Monk: Highly specialized fighter with limitations. Kinda like a sorcerer in this way. Barbarian: Highly specialized fighter with limitations. Bard: Wizard/priest with a unique buffing mechanic that somewhat resembles higher level priest buffs.

So, understanding that we have a limited level range to work with, and thus very limited builds, it's important to realize that while these hybrid/specialized classes will not realize their FULL potential. Instead, we must focus them all in order to make an effective build.

Hybrid first: Bards: Great buffers. Built properly they also make insane melee damage.

Druids: Buffers/healers or, if properly focused, fantastic self buffing tanks and damagers. They even make pretty damn decent casters with the right feat selection.

Paladin: Self buffing fighter with, basically, free +save feats. They don't get many feats, no, but how many do you really need to be a good tank or damager? Power attack + a two handed sword or Expertise and a tower shield in full plate. By level 6 you could conceivably have Improved in both of these. Or you can focus on one aspect and pick up some other helpful feats.

Ranger: Stealth, tracking, free dual wielding and a fighter AB puts them close to rogue damage and survivability. Plus the ability to cast spells. Basically have two choices here. Go melee and rock out, or specialize in archery, stay safe, and do less damage.

Pre specialized non hybrids:

Barbarian: Fighter with a special ability to self buff, but few feats and weak armor. They needed help, especially at low levels, and it was given.

Sorcerer: Ultimately far more limited than a wizard. Decide at character creation what you want to do and stick to it. Specialize further in an already highly specialized class. Choose to buff, and you'll be buffing loads of people. Choose to damage and you've got a heavy arsenal of casts coming out of those fingers. Choose to Summon... same thing. LOADS of spells per day. You could form your own zoo. You just -cannot- by any means, approach them as you would a wizard.

Monk: Pre specialized fighters built around killing low AC/health targets, specifically magic users. ie. Wizards, Sorcerers, and Bards to a lesser extent. Pure rogues as well. Low AB and base weapon damage force you into this role. Low -base- armor precludes you from going toe to toe with any of the heavily armed classes. You'll be chopped to mince before you land many blows. Basically though, they are the -most- specialized of all classes and being such reduces the players ability to choose a path. The only way a monk will survive melee focused on them is heavy buffing, or heavy feat selection... Improved Expertise/Toughness. However, the pure monk has no other options... Settle for what the game gave you and improve upon it, or do -zero- damage and try to tank things. There is no in class means of increasing the damage capabilities of this damage based class... short of gaining levels beyond our real level range. Level 8 a monk will start do do the same damage as a priest with a heavy crossbow who forgot to cast any spells on himself. All this while the monk is basically naked and in the very thick of combat. I honestly truly believe that if a monk wants to survive to higher levels while still contributing to the party... they should buy a heavy crossbow at level 2 and stick to it until the time comes that they can sneak past the melee and take down the mages... Mages that will probably be killed already by the archers who are at little risk of taking damage. Worse, how often are mages really around as enemies on quests? And I'm talking about -real- mages, not these uber mages with fighter AC and health who are raining down barrage after barrage of insane spells and who all seem to have the saves of a 20 CHA Paladin. AND whom if engaged in melee, you will often automatically pull the next group of mobs to you due to your proximity.

Yes, pure monks -are- the weakest class in quests and this stems from their ultra-specialization and the way their target class of mob has been altered to make encounters more challenging for the rest of the server. They bring the least to the party and will easily be out-shined by any other class in so far as their utility goes. An quite honestly... I'd much rather have a Ranger or a Rogue stealthing towards that mage in the back than a monk. They will both do more damage more quickly and shut down the mage more efficiently than any conceivable monk build.

Don't even bring up PvP, we all know it's entirely about who is more prepared at the start. If you get sacked by a pre buffed <class>, you're going to die unless you've got something very special up your sleeve to wriggle your way back up to victory.

In short: Monks need help, or their target NPCs/encounters need to be altered to allow a monk to actually do the job they were made to do.

Monks make mincemeat of quests later on.

So you're talking about PvE and questing but not factoring in buffs, Oona? Seems a little silly to me!

lol someone voted cleric

MadCaddies So you're talking about PvE and questing but not factoring in buffs, Oona? Seems a little silly to me!

It's too highly variable to consider.

9lives Monks make mincemeat of quests later on.

Everyone else makes mincemeat pies out of quests later on and sells them to the highest bidder.

I'm going to be honest. Every monk I've seen do well on this server has rocked out incredibly well in the RP arena and was granted fantastic DM loot.

Maybe the class is fine as it is and simply needs access to better gear than they currently have. I don't know for certain, but something isn't right.

Since I put such high expectations on myself, I think druids, paladins, and especially clerics are the hardest classes (for me) to play due to the amount of creative effort you continually have to pour into the character. I get sick of those quite quickly; divine classes just tire me out.

Very true Exile.

I voted Sorcerer. Tough to balance the spells at low levels like EFU. Decidedly less Sorcerer gear floating around too.

Having a tough time getting a monk rolling? Drop me a PM or a tell IG, I'd be happy to help. I find them almost sinfully survivable.

I think it depends on what you mean by "Playability".

If we are just talking ROLLplay, then I would go with the Magic users. At LOW levels, they have no armor, no HP, no BAB, and cast minimal spells.

Now if you are talking ROLEplay then I would go Paladin. How do you maintain a LG alignment in the UNDERDARK?? If you were a slave, how exactly did you survive? I'm thinking that the first time you showed 'favor from your God' they would have killed you on the spot. Now, if you were to go first 2 levels in Fighter, then in GAME ROLEplayed the calling of your God...alright I can see that. Still they are surrounded by Evil, just about everything should radiate with it, the very ground we walk on is tainted by it. I know that many people love the Paladin, and I myself love a well played one, but I just can't fathom it in the setting we are currently in. (but that is me..I admit I am a Paladin prude, only certain people can pull them off well.....To many make LG mean LS (lawful stupid)). I will shut up now and get off my soap box.

I have played several bards, and I can say this.

Bards have the highest degree of survival. They are the MOST diverse class out there. You can be a healer, following the fighters in invisibility using healing wands you can make, or use. Or you can be at the front, holding your own or even out shining the fighters. You can buff yourself, you can sing, persuade, intimidate, bluff, spellcraft and tumble, AND STEALTH.

If you won't least survival, go sorcerer. imo, Never got past level 3 on the buggers.

Agreed there, Thomas. The great thing for a bard is even if you're out of spells and music, you can still use light armor and a shield and play as a fairly effective flanker or bowman.

In a team, you can even play a pre-buff caster, and then don your armor and shield for the combat and sit back with a sling or dart using Music, if you want to be extra safe.

I've found Wizard to be an utter pain at the very lowest levels as it's ridiculouly hard to do the easy single-player quests because of your limited store of firepower. The 0/1 level spells are pathetic compared to normal attack damage from any sort of combat class. Anyone had any luck taking a mini dragon familiar for tanking at the 2-4 lvl range? I wanted to try that but the game crashed as I levelled and I somehow got an Imp instead 0_o.

That said, with potions in high demand on this server, I might keep going on my wizard as a merchant or something.

As far as a roleplay point a Pali is that hardest because not only are you stuck with following the dogma of your god, you must maintain a degree of civility when that neutral evil *Bad word* is giving you a hard time because you call him on his wrongness or try and get him kicked from the party so that you can get the xp and gold...not fun.

For survivability I would say wizard, what more is their. d4hp and maybe 2 magic missiles a day. a whopping powerful array of firepower if you can get to fifth level, but the problem is getting there.Oh and the familiar that runs into combat, gets killed and costs you xp and half of your already cryable health.

Maybe it isn't the wizard class, but the player? Errands can be run from 2 to 3, and even then I know that if there is any exp left to gain that it is easily gotten. Just need to find out those quest. Those NPC given healing rods and/or a bunch of minor healing potions, mage armor and decent AC with some tumble, the right spells, and some other stuff can usually get me to squeak by the quest to easily get to 5. And I rolled a generalist.

...

I think you are all crazy. (Except Thomas and Egon. They're right. :wink: )

Mage classes? Easy. Cast a few buffs, then go invisible.

Monks? Good wisdom, dexterity, decent strength and expertise.

Fighter classes? Just fight. And bring a few of those buff bots with you.

Druids? You can get some pretty good stealth going with their sets of abilities. Sneak around, and hit them in animal form.

Bards. Just rock out.

Clerics...

I think they are just boring to play. Sure, they are pretty sweet in combat, but I can't play an evil character, without making some good-aligned friends >_>. Also, I have to preach. How boring is that? Just IMO.

Clerics aren't exactly Evil only...

I think bard is the easiest class to mess up seriously. Bard can be a sweet combat class, not merely whore. While Jacques Montezzi was an example of the former, Elizabeth Ravenlock is an example of the latter.

HELLO OLWA

_trendymonster_ I think bard is the easiest class to mess up seriously. Bard can be a sweet combat class, not merely whore. While Jacques Montezzi was an example of the former, Elizabeth Ravenlock is an example of the latter.

HELLO OLWA

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

nice

I truly enjoy the Clerical and druid classes. I have seen awesome clerics and druids, and I have played awesome clerics. Rich the Pitiless and Allivarn Fireheart were two of my best clerics and they got into all sorts of trouble.

But yes, RP wise, they are tough, you need to be creative in preaching your dogma, and twisting it in ways to incorporate everything that your deity doesn't oppose.

I have to say that Animal Domain on a Cleric owns in EfU . All your summoning spells are one effective level higher, making for great distractions and flank/rear attacks, and using a Conjurative Focus lets you tailor the summons to your needs. I may actually go with a pure Lurue Cleric next char, and mostly take summons to convert in to heals if I have to.

Furthermore on Bards, there are some brilliant Bard-only items on the server, especially the 1/day summoning instruments and the Healing Pan Pipes, since those have a truckload of charges but are class-restricted, so easy to pick up from loot.

Monks and Wizards are the two core classes I most fear to face in PVP. Sorcerers, however, just do not have the variation to be threatening. If you want to have a Sorcerer have ANY use in quests, the only spells you have are Magic Weapon, Bull's Strength and Haste. Surviving 4 HP classes are difficult as it is, but at least Wizards can variate depending on scenarios.