As a druid, it is difficult to justify the use of the current sending system. First one must enter a town of people whom you care little for, then secondly must submit to the use of magics which, to my understanding, draw their power from the Machine, another source of loathing.

So, I would propose an alternative, and would even love to go on some crazy quest to obtain this in game... A spirit quest perhaps, given the nature of the sending system.

Basically it will work as such. There will be a Spirit Stone located somewhere safe such that low levels can access it without undue risk. The boneyard was brought up as this was discussed too... and makes wonderful sense as there could be a high concentration of spirit energy there.

ICly, it would represent a system wherein a message is given over to the spirits who then carry the message to those attuned to the crystal (or whatever it is). Some classes, who are more in tune with the spirit world, would gain access to this system as a class perk. Druids and rangers, namely. Though rangers would have to be limited via levels I would think. Perhaps level 3 or whatever level they first get spells at. This prevents those odd fellows who just take a single ranger level for the feats from accessing this system for free.

Naturally, there would be some cost to using the system. Perhaps 20 gold or slightly more to put out a sending and more to become attuned. This would be rationalized as bringing an offering to the spirits or burning incense... Something along those lines.

Something like this: ---------------------- You feel a strange warmth fill you from within as you approach the stone.

1.) Leave a small offering to the spirits. ((20g will be deducted to represent your offering. 2.) Leave a greater offering to the spirits. ((attunes you to the system and deducts 100g. )) <--- this option here would give the person some small object like the sending stones we all carry. Perhaps a small crystal or ornately carved piece of bone. 3.) Turn away. --------------------

Obviously this would become available to Exiles and Monsters alike who otherwise have no access to a sending system. I understand that this may be somewhat to design, however it puts those characters at a far greater disadvantage than it might seem. It becomes nearly impossible to put together a group for anything at this point without organizing it via the forums or OOCly. Finding people is incredibly difficult without the ability to ICly send a message to a large section of people... And often makes playing such characters sad and lonely.

Some sort of advertising for this would also have to take place. This can be taken care of somewhat by players, guiding people towards the stone... But the only way for this to be effective is for people to know about it. So, perhaps a small quest can be put in with no level cap, no XP, and no gold reward, that asks the character to seek the stone and make an offering to it. This quest might even be integral to actually becoming attuned to it. The quest giver sells you the object which will become attuned, and then you go and seek the crystal to make it so. A quest giver is a great way to advertise something special like this though... as players will often Examine a new NPC and see the Quest info in the NPCs description.

Just a thought! Please discuss freely, but... if any of you feel the need to post a 'no this is stupid' response, at least qualify your statement with an explanation. Give some reasons why you feel this should or should not happen!

Being involved in this discussion, I also suggested the use of crystals which would be used as citizen stones so you could recieve such messages from the spirit world.

These would be exclusive to the wilderness classes and would also give other wilderness characters a incentive to keep them secret (or a rather curious city character to find them)

Also say if one of them fell into the wrong hands (A spellguard agent for example) that would give wilderness characters incentives to RP with those characters for the return of the crystal. Or to simply kill them for taking a artifact of the wilds for themselves.

I totally support this, mainly because I find it hard to RP a reason why a wilderness character would even consider having a Citizen Stone, when really, they abhor everything that it would stand for. So, yush, this or something similar is a wonderful idea!

I like it!

Would one of the 'civilized' be able to, for example, a Paladin of Tyr who is friendly with the druids?

Druids do not tend to be friendly with paladins. Paladins are just as dangerous in the minds of most druids as the worst and most careless hunters.

It would be lovely to have a system to make sendings of some kind with a druid. I've tried leaving notes around, but obnoxious characters remove them all the time.

Oroborous Paladins are just as dangerous in the minds of most druids as the worst and most careless hunters.

OK, if it isn't a spoilerish thing, why would a druid see a Paladin as dangerous as a careless hunter?

This sums it up well.

Seekers of Wisdom thread Druids seek to understand the living, dynamic world of nature and life.

Nature is a more complex reality than even the deities that created it can fully understand, much less intelligent mortals. For a druid, a patron deity is a spiritual guide, and an intermediary between nature as a whole and the individual druid. The particular deity that a druid follows shapes the druid's perception of nature, but it is nature that the druid ultimately serves, not the deity.

Intelligent beings, to druids, are perpetual crises, always threatening to disrupt "the Balance" in their willful blindness to nature. Ironically, it is up to intelligent beings to protect and restore that balance. Whether intelligent beings are themselves part of nature, or inherently aberrations that are more trouble then they're worth, is a matter of profound controversy among druids, and blood has been shed in the course of the debate more than once.

Druids distrust abstract ideals. They are, in a sense, invaders from outside the prime material, outside the living world. Intelligent beings tend to be entirely too concerned with matters like Justice, Honor, Freedom, Hatred, Domination, and Vengeance, and this can blind them to the complex living reality in which they live. Intelligent beings following their ideals disrupt the balance of nature much the way that clearing a road disrupts a forest.

Paladins uphold justice, honor, and other abstract ideals that druids view as inanetely dangerous.

Paladins strive for a world free of evil and chaos, therefore paladins constantly attempt to create a imbalance in the world. Which is why we have so much hate for you :)

Luke Danger

Oroborous Paladins are just as dangerous in the minds of most druids as the worst and most careless hunters.

OK, if it isn't a spoilerish thing, why would a druid see a Paladin as dangerous as a careless hunter?

They represent a dangerous extreme. Lawful Good. Druids have no problem with Lawful, or Good. But put the two together and you have a zealot who, in the eyes of a druid, will do more harm than aid.

And ideally.... I would like to see this open to anyone to use. I enjoy going on excursions with non nature types. Getting to know new people and such. Not even just questing but wandering around or gathering people to help with a problem.

It would honestly have to be left to being an IC sort of thing whether you get attuned or not. If you start excluding by class then... well what if a Chauntean monk comes around and wants to help? Or that nature friendly warrior? The sorcerer who views himself more as a Shaman than anything? Same goes with Clerics. Any class -except- a paladin could possibly be nature based. It just doesn't make good sense to exclude people.

I can't say I like this too much. Ought to keep in mind that you're excluding yourself from the 'regular' sending system voluntarily - that means there will be advantages and disadvantages, which you might have to work with due to this choice, or work around it ICly in some sort of way.

..you can always get a citizen stone and pretend you found this black rock very curious or something. Maybe you hire someone to do a sending and see how it works out. Honestly, it isn't difficult to rationalize most attitudes and actions. You bend the RP to get to meet and include the newbies, why not do it to include yourself in the shizzle that is the sending system?

And I say that while playing a character who doesn't use the evil Sanctuary sending system at all. Life isn't easy for him! >_>

The point of the Sending system, and would be of this one, is to create the ability for the characters to find and interact with each other for various purposes. Basically, its to bring people together so they can RP/Quest, the integral parts of the server. With that in mind, I'd like to see something like this IG.

It doesn't make much sense to not cater to an entire faction on the server, especially one that is really hard to gather people for.

Although, Personally, I'd be more in favor of tieing that ability to the Purple Crystals.

Madskillsmike I can't say I like this too much. Ought to keep in mind that you're excluding yourself from the 'regular' sending system voluntarily - that means there will be advantages and disadvantages, which you might have to work with due to this choice, or work around it ICly in some sort of way.

..you can always get a citizen stone and pretend you found this black rock very curious or something. Maybe you hire someone to do a sending and see how it works out. Honestly, it isn't difficult to rationalize most attitudes and actions. You bend the RP to get to meet and include the newbies, why not do it to include yourself in the shizzle that is the sending system?

And I say that while playing a character who doesn't use the evil Sanctuary sending system at all. Life isn't easy for him! >_>

In my case, I can't. Exiled. Many others are as well. And I'm sure you spend a great deal of time wandering around doing nothing. But then, this isn't much of a problem if you can actually enter Upper City. Not everyone has the luxury of being able to stand around where most of the server population is.

The idea here is to simply provide the tool that is the sending system to everyone, regardless of status within the city. It really is an OOC tool that is quite necessary to avoid metagaming and lame OOC tells to find people for something.

I think it's a cool idea, but at the same time this splits the server in two on the sending systems. Instead of having one big unified system that all players can interact on, we'll start to align ourselves between these two sending systems which may reduce player interactions?

Not having access to the sending system can be a blessing in disguise. Questing with well-integrated parties usually results in fewer deaths than when a bunch of random people meet up. Looking for people can be a fun adventure in itself, rather than just paging them over the PA. Granted, it is sometimes inconvenient to have to wait days to make contact with somebody IG, but there's usually a lot of interesting stuff that happens in between.

That said, if PCs decided they wanted to make this nature-based system, I can almost guarantee it would happen. It sounds like something that would require a lot of DM support, but might also receive that support.

IMO, just get homing bats. Like homing pidgeons, only... bats.

While I will concede that in some respects the decidedly IC Sending System is a semi-OOC tool used to facilitate player meetings and groupings, I do not think it fitting to have a secondary system devoted (for the mostpart) to a specific faction/class - Especially one basically mapped upon a technology that is generally despised by the group.

That being said, I'm in strong favour of a custom homing-bat system, replete with guano.

I think any alternative should best be earned In game!

lol dragon, your comments are highly predictable. Always to the affect of FOIG.

Any ways, I like the idea a nature based sending system and all the conflict/fun that could be created from it.

9lives While I will concede that in some respects the decidedly IC Sending System is a semi-OOC tool used to facilitate player meetings and groupings, I do not think it fitting to have a secondary system devoted (for the mostpart) to a specific faction/class - Especially one basically mapped upon a technology that is generally despised by the group.

That being said, I'm in strong favour of a custom homing-bat system, replete with guano.

Goblins, kobolds, exiles, druids, drow, wanted criminals, are not all one faction.

The decidedly IC Sending System came from a very OOC idea at the basis. In fact, I'd hazard to come right out and say this, it was inspired directly from the City of Arabel Sending System and then implemented in a better manner overall that was more IC.

However, at basis, it is a magical system used to help facilitate character interation. That is its OOC function, but IC it was located in an area of the module that a fair variety, but agreeably not substantial number of players can't reach IC and implemented in a manner that certain classes likely should not wish to use IC as well.

If you really believe that IC limitations are more important than the OOC consideration of helping to facilitate character interactions and helping players do the occasional quest--all I can say is that that answer surprises me considerably.

I certainly will maintain that the point of this game is to have fun. It will be far more fun if some players have a wider chance to interact with people. I meet more characters because of making Sendings and questing with them than I manage to run into walking through the wilds alone-or even walking through the city looking for people.

I play a time zone that has 4-11 players on typically and no DM generally. A sending system, or a way to tap into it that is not linked to the Upper Sanctuary Machine, would be appreciated no matter how you tap into it.

Citizen Stones are just rocks, there could simply be a large crystal that Grizzabella knows is tuned into the magical frequency the Machine uses to talk to these rocks--and she can help anyone who wants to use the crystal contact the rocks. Intryzz may finally decide that he wants allow people to speak messages into his specially trained Brain Dog who can telepathically set up communication with the Machine which then contacts the citizen stones as normal.

I mean, whatever, there are ways to creatively implement this in an IC manner while upholding what is to me the more important OOC purpose of helping players get together to interact and do a few quests.

9lives While I will concede that in some respects the decidedly IC Sending System is a semi-OOC tool used to facilitate player meetings and groupings, I do not think it fitting to have a secondary system devoted (for the mostpart) to a specific faction/class - Especially one basically mapped upon a technology that is generally despised by the group.

That being said, I'm in strong favour of a custom homing-bat system, replete with guano.

That's just it though... I'm not intending this to be solely for the use of a few people. Ideally I would like everyone to be hooked up to it, just like the current sending system. That way I can put out a message of... "Hey! Let's go explore the dark, romp around and have a good time". Presently, I cannot do this. It requires me to find someone first (a greater challenge than you think at times!) and then ask them to go make a sending. Sure, it works, but it often takes more time than I have to play just to find that initial person >.<

Further, I don't really think this is based on a technology that a Druid would despise. Druids are in constant contact with the spirit world (in my opinion, anyway). It would make perfect sense for a circle of druids to seek out the aid of the spirits and ask for their willing (key word, that) help. There would be no subjugation. Offerings would even be made with every use of the system. After its initial creation, it would then be up to everyone else to decide if they want anything to do with the system.

Why not just place another sending sphere someplace in the Canal Ward (I don’t think the Spellguard or Montezzi’s would mind). This would help the sending problems and open the canal ward to becoming a more popular place.

Being somewhat of a noob, I’ve noticed since day one that the majority of players congregate near the town hall and I know it isn’t because the town hall is such a fun place to be, It’s because of the sending sphere. Place another one someplace and see another congregation point appear.

I have to agree with Oro!

Although, I do not think all these systems should be interconnected, but I do think everyone regardless of race / class / faction should be able to access them.

Grizzabella could have a magical crystal that is attuned to other magical crystals. You purchase a "listening crystal" from her for 100gp, and then can use the "sending crystal" located in her cavern for 20gp. The listening crystal would work just like a citizen stone.

Thomas could have a sending system, similar to Grizzabella's, but through "spirit crystals". You'd speak to a spirit in his tavern, and those who have a spirit crystal in their inventory would hear the message.

I also like the idea of honing bats. My suggestion for them would be as follows: Allow PC's to craft their own notes or use the scribe. To craft the notes, they'd require a bottle of ink, parchment and a quill. Those things should be purchasable in Upper Sanctuary, Mur, Lower Sanctuary and Sslas'teesh.

Allow the note writing to function as normal. Then allow a player to purchase a "honing bat". When the honing bat is used on a note, you then say the name of the player you want the note sent to and... walla. The bat flies off to find said person. The time it'll take for the note to arrive may depend on the PC's distance from you at the time of the sending (if possible!).

In either case, when the bat arrives everyone nearby who sees the PC gets a message saying, "A honing bat arrives with a note for <Player Name>." The note then appears in the PC's inventory. This would make sense IC and rock overall because then it would be easier to set up IC meetings in game or passing on information to someone who happens to be far away. Exiles / traitors / rebels / secret societies would all benefit from this!

I think that would solve all the issues raised here. Additionally, it would get more gold out of the hands of players.

Oroborous WALL OF TEXT

What you're basically saying Oro is that because you chose to play a druid who wouldn't use the sending system already available IG, we should come up with another one so you can use that one, and arguing that this needs to be done on the basis that the current system OOCly disadvantages certain characters.

Sorry, but-

Players who play drow/kobolds/goblins/outlaws etc. understand they can't make sendings before they make the PC. Its a choice they make. An IC disadvantage they can creatively overcome, rather than the OOC oversight on our part that you are supposing it is.

As for druids and the like, I don't think its inherently un-IC for them to use the public sending system at all. If the PC is suspicious about using it themselves, they can always ask a friend or hire someone to make a sending.

Beyond that, I guess if you want to see some manner of sending system in another place on the module, you can investigate it and work towards it ICly.

Please don't put words in my mouth Caddies or assume that I'm behaving in a manner I am not.

I'm saying what I'm saying now because for the years I've played on this server, I've had this idea in my head that the Sending System could use an adjustment.

It has come up now while I am playing a character that is a druid yes, but I didn't raise the point on my behalf. I am supporting a player who did raise it.

My argument stands on the basis of my argument. You made a convincing counter-argument for drow/goblins/etc.

I could have raised it when I played a goblin, but didn't. I could have raised it when I was playing a wanted criminal, but I didn't any of the many times. However, the idea was still present then too.

I just prefer you attack my arguments, and not my motivations.

That's the way it came across to me. INTERNET!

Humble apologies, milord.

In any case, I think any PC except those who in some way -choose- not to (because they are monstrous, have been outlawed from the city, or don't trust the process itself) can use the sending system and thus its working as intended.

I guess ultimately that I am not convinced by your argument that the current system is unduly disadvantageous in an OOC fashion to our players.

Like I said, if you desire an alternative then it can be worked toward IG.

Don't milord me from your kingly DM throne! Its embarrassing.

Your argument has convinced me.

MadCaddies Like I said, if you desire an alternative then it can be worked toward IG.

I stated clearly that I would be glad to do just this. But it seems even if I did you would deny it based on your arguments.

So my question is: would this, or any alternative Sending System, ever be implemented if a character or group of characters tried to earn it IG. I'm not going to waste my time and yours working towards this goal if it will not be implemented.

Depends pretty much entirely on how it'd be done. Many of the past suggestions quite simply aren't feasible, and were we to implement a new solution, either separate or as part of the current system somehow, we'd want it done in a way that keeps the system smooth OOCly (no town criers or errant boys); makes sense ICly (no town criers or errant boys!); and is available to as many compromised players as possible (no magic druid-only mushrooms). There have, in the past, been some, at least, half-viable suggestions, but I have yet to personally see "The One."

I can understand the reasoning behind having to sending systems but i feel it would probably do more harm than good in the long run. My thoughts are it would essentially lead to two completly seperate groups who since they have there own sending systems have absalutly no reason to interact with the other half.

I think I'm failing to get my point across. This system would not be meant to limit those who can use it. Although it could possibly be given some benefits for certain classes. Like free Attunement for a a Druid. This is entirely optional though.

There would be no limitations. It's merely the same system as in Upper, only based on natural magic and cooperative spirits instead of the Weave and arcane magics.

Anyone can use it. If you don't want to, it's your choice. Just as the system in Upper is. I even recommend it be placed somewhere safe to reach for all players. A fresh level 2 can get to the Boneyard. It may be slightly dangerous, but that is a price to pay for choosing to be unable to use the system in Upper. It's even accessible to someone who, for whatever reason, finds himself banned from both Upper and Lower.

It would be entirely OOC in function. No town crier or errand boys. Simply a message received by being in close proximity to the stone, crystal, bone carving (or whatever the object is). Just as the system in Upper operates.

I truly don't see how it is any different than the system in Upper, aside from a different IC explanation for it's internal workings and different location. And if that isn't a good enough alternative, I'm afraid I can think of nothing better than what I already consider the best system (with the exception of it's placement and lack of availability).

Hell... I'd honestly be happy if someone were able to obtain a second sending sphere to mount somewhere. It's svirfneblin technology. There has to be more of them, no? I just thought this suggestion would make it something more comfortable for certain classes to justify using by making it nature based.

Even if not intended I feel it would create a split. Right now if a monstrus creature or someone exhiled from the town wants to create a group they use in betweens and the like which leads to interaction but with two sending systems that interaction just wouldent happen.

Also theres the matter of range because unless the systems overlap each other your going to have one group hanging about one sending systems range and another group hanging around the other.

Oona

MadCaddies Like I said, if you desire an alternative then it can be worked toward IG.

I stated clearly that I would be glad to do just this. But it seems even if I did you would deny it based on your arguments.

So my question is: would this, or any alternative Sending System, ever be implemented if a character or group of characters tried to earn it IG. I'm not going to waste my time and yours working towards this goal if it will not be implemented.

My argument is that things are alright as is. However, if you did manage to find a feasible alternative IG and put some real effort into it, we'd certainly look at putting another one in.

*Caranthir plucks a BlackBerry off a bush and sticks it in his pocket, then pulls a BlueTooth from a long dead Svirfneblin skull and sticks it in his ear. Shortly after he adds druids and rangers to his family and friends package.* :mrgreen:

Wailing Skull

This (minuscule/tiny?) skull was entrusted to (name) from/by the Boneyard(or Thomas?). With aid from spirits dwelling therein, messages are whispered by/through the skull to any other being carrying one.

This item opens up communications beyond Sanctuary's walls, especially for loners, the druidic, and the ill-intended . You may carry this within town as you wish, but it will not function within much of the city (mainly Upper, of course). Inherently used by most of the neutral/evil spectrums, you could as likely call a group of thugs to yourself as any person of helpful intent.

Being caught carrying one of these by the Watch is a grave (:lol:) offense, and can be punished with/for its clear ties to Necromancy. Few law-abiding citizens would carry these, as it could lead to a quick exile after any search. Were it small enough, hiding these would be as high-priority as obscuring a vial of strong venom.

As to where messages are sent from, Thomas' bar could be one/the central location. Being the mastermind behind this endeavor this would be further dissuasive, and further relegate use towards the desperate, druids, and criminals. Other hubs (skull mounds/bone shrines?) hidden about may be necessary, both to balance risk (one hub in the wild = clear ganking), allow better in-city (Canals, Lower) access, and give anonymity to a sender's locale.

Well, hew away at this as you wish, but this is my speculation as to how the system could manifest IG. A covert, free-listening network, which distinguishes little between friends and foes, set outside of the 'safe(er)' bounds of Upper. Heh, at least it would get Thomas a few more customers. 8)