OK, all you veteran EfU-ers.

I'm going to issue a challenge to you. Back when I started playing EfU about 2 years ago, there were a lot of neat characters that interacted with a large segment of the player population. Grey Jenkins. Edmund the Herbal Healer. Tarnis. Strife. Cail Durris. Laramie Lathae. Just to name a few that come to mind. Iconic names and characters. Memorable, vivid and the backbone of the server.

I don't notice players like that much anymore. Rarely do any of whom I consider to be very good players on the server interact with the newbie/lowbies that way. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my impression the last six months or so.

This is not just for me, but I'd like to see KEY figures on the server start letting other characters in on some of these hawt secrets. Send them on a mapping expedition. Have a DM put a recoverable item somewhere in a scripted quest that isn't well known. Hire them to do the job if its IC for your character to want it done. Show us some of these really neat quests like Arga's tomb and so forth.

This isn't everyone's cup of tea I understand, but there are a lot of very neat quests that the DMs have invested their time into that a lot of people don't even know about.

I consider myself an average to sometimes above average player that's been here two years, and I still feel like there is a lot to EfU that I am unaware of and am missing out on.

All that secret plotting and hiding out with your amazing characters is depriving everyone else. How about coming out sometimes where all the new players can see what really good RP is like, and can interact with ya'all a bit more?

Looking for more of a good thing!

Wyric Crowshire is not memorable?

But more seriously, I think trying to involve people around you is always good. However it is sometimes hard to come by with interesting ideas, and have the time it takes to run something continuing and interesting.

Wyric Wyric Crowshire is not memorable.

I don't think this is strictly up to the veteran players, and I also think those you might consider "vets" aren't truly such, or never were the way you really thought they were. I don't consider DM plots strictly owned by these "vets" and I've seen plenty players try to involve others in said plots and secrets.

That said, if you really feel like you need something to do and aren't finding any plots that are really opening to you, make one of your own avail and I'm sure if it's awesome enough a DM will stick his ugly but vastly wise face in (Namely the voloptous DangerousDan >.>) and help you out.

In addition to Inquisitor's statements, consider joining a faction, its an easy way to get in on some of those secrets. For the most part, my characters are usually outspoken and involve others, but you can't always be forthcoming about everything and trust is something that needs time to establish.

Hmm, from what I see, this is being done RIGHT NOW more than any time before...

There's an almost exclusively PC faction that basically owns 1/4 of the city.

There's a Civil Service leader who takes frequent expeditions to deal with the prevalant undead threats.

There's a druid faction with some recognizable leadership, and it's WORKING.

A two year old PC faction that has been the the slumps is finally starting to get some notice...

Recently, a Paladin rallied a large number of warriors for a cause. The crusade never happened, but for a little while things were -epic-.

A young lady who believes in beauty in love about all things is getting people interested in the often non-existant social side of adventuring.

There's a knight trying to get an Upper Class armed force, bookkeeping staff, and trade organization arranged.

There's an upcoming although not yet started group of people who may become a faction of hardcore patriots. I don't know what they're going to do just yet, but there are some pretty big opportunities with them.

Lastly, an age-old faction, the Seekers, are in the pits and waiting for a new and inspiring PC to lead them back to greatness... or final defeat.

Again, I think things are actually going quite well in relation to involving others. I say, if you don't think you're getting involved enough, you're probably not trying very hard, for whatever reason. Even the opportunity to involve others as a leader instead of just getting invloved is open!

I got too frustrated trying to show "new players" the ropes or have them do some interesting quests, just to find out they were actually experienced players on a secret account.

This is why I hate secret accounts.

Garem gave me goosebumps.

And may have just completely changed my mind about the state of EfU.

Things really aren't that crappy these days at all. There's a lot going on, with plenty of iconic characters. We just need to forget about (or at least stop comparing too) the ones who came before.

Sadly, this means Cail Durris too. But he wasn't that great, anyway, honestly! I hardly ever got people involved in anything. Half the time spent in game with him was walking in circles around Upper.

I havent been here for very long and I admit, as far as the RP here goes, I'm still a noob despite my experience elsewhere but I would love to see the RP community becoming more open with one another.

Sorry to plug but the main OOC objective of my upcoming faction (The Black Hand of Sanctuary) is to have as many people involved as possible in its RP. I want to see what happens if people object to the Banites taking The Temple of Hoar! I want to see what happens if Morgahn (Me) got elected for council! I could go on like this but I wont waste your time. 8)

My NWN time is very limited these days, but as far as I can tell the server is in as healthy a state in terms of excellence of RP and involving stories as I have ever seen it.

I agree with Howland. Things are excellent.

Gwydion OK, all you veteran EfU-ers.

I'm going to issue a challenge to you. Back when I started playing EfU about 2 years ago, there were a lot of neat characters that interacted with a large segment of the player population. Grey Jenkins. Edmund the Herbal Healer. Tarnis. Strife. Cail Durris. Laramie Lathae. Just to name a few that come to mind. Iconic names and characters. Memorable, vivid and the backbone of the server.

I don't notice players like that much anymore. Rarely do any of whom I consider to be very good players on the server interact with the newbie/lowbies that way.

It's because the server has changed! Honestly, as the server changed the nature of the characters changed and we had a few iconic characters who were simply different from those you mention. Lieutenant Lothor, Valaron Sunellar, the Scholar, Toman Vashan ( Or so I like to think!), to mention a few who were out there, doing things, including people.

Things aren't happening the same way, that's true. But they're still happening! You just need to look at things differently. I, for one, find that there's so much to be done and I see so many people doing things. I really don't see where the vets aren't including people!

I agree it's always good to include new players and characters! I also agree that the server is in a healthy state! Things are good folks, keep up the good work. 8)

It's all about perception, Gwydion. I bet you that players who started about the time of Aleczumberziel te Esoterotept will remember the Scholar just as we might remember Mandarin Dreagle. The first impressions of a new experience almost always last longest. If it makes you feel better, I'm on your side. But that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with what's happening now.

On a side note, it would be nice if some guys who are on during EU times would also try to start up some action - or get involved in some action that do not require the approval of someone in US timezones.

IMO you guys totally missed the point that Gwydion was trying to make.

It's not just about RPing with us n00bs. There is a lot of that. It's that so much of what's out there to discover on the server is unable to be found by most n00bs ... and the vets, while certainly helping involve a n00b, aren't necessarily helping show us how to find out what's out there.

Even being in a faction isn't always the way to find out. I've got two PC's that are in factions and another PC that's trying to discover what faction she would fit into. And I'm still clueless about most of what EfU offers.

I'd love to see the width, depth, & breadth of this server ... but the fact remains that 1) a solitary PC has very very little chance of survival outside of Sanctuary walls. 2) without guidance there's not even a hint that what's out there is explorable and/or questable

I'm not suggesting that things be handed to us on a silver platter. And please don't tell me it's all to be FOIG. If you don't know it's there to be found, how the hell are you even going to think about it or look for it IG? You aren't.

What's being asked for by me (and IMO Gwydion) is some help pointing n00bs like me in the right direction and if necessary maybe a bit of helping hand (all within the bounds of IG and RP of course) getting there.

I don't know if I'm one of these vets, but any new player is welcome to contact me IC or OOC for "involvement." It is tough sometimes when I sit in the fortress for three or four hours straight just roleplaying with visitors as they come in and out, but I do try to make an effort to make time and try to throw some plot threads to anyone who is interseted.

Charm I don't know if I'm one of these vets, but any new player is welcome to contact me IC or OOC for "involvement." It is tough sometimes when I sit in the fortress for three or four hours straight just roleplaying with visitors as they come in and out, but I do try to make an effort to make time and try to throw some plot threads to anyone who is interseted.

Some of it is up to the new players though. I know Mandarin and Fawkes both had the "sit four hours in the base just roleplaying all the meetings" syndrome. Then for all the time I spent trying to get a new player involved, far more often than not, he disappeared the next day.

So if you want to get involved, you need to actively look for someone who will get you involved and then stick with the character for more than a week or two.

One thing I have noticed, is that every character I play that does get involved in plots and stories has spent a full month working towards those plots and stories before things got rolling. Many "noobs" don't realize it takes that long and give up after a few days.

There used to be a faction, well sort of still is, though it's mostly inactive, Called the Sentinel. The former leader taught me a huge amount about the server, and to this date, it was the best faction I have ever been in on EFU. The player was Thane, and even though I was pretty new to the server, he pulled me in and shoed my noob ass more than any of my other PCs have ever learned. Mad props to him.

That said, I've always tried to live up to his example, and show the new players the ropes. It doesnt always turn out well, but meh. Gotta try, eh? Though

1) a solitary PC has very very little chance of survival outside of Sanctuary walls.

This is pretty untrue. The Sentinel wandered the underdark alone or in pairs 90% of the time. It was in this way we operated, found groups of people in the underdark, (usually saving their asses), guiding them around, etc.

2) without guidance there's not even a hint that what's out there is explorable and/or questable

I 100% agree. With my PC I always made an effort to take peopel to cool places, show them shit that would freak them out ICly, but be awesome OOCly, etc. There are awesome places in the underdark, and they should shared. Anyone who is able to, show take the time to spread the love, IMO.

Gwydion- You are a vet! I still remember Rollo. Start doing something about it if you think there is a need to!

1) a solitary PC has very very little chance of survival outside of Sanctuary walls.

As a fairly new player, I spend most of my time outside of Sanctuary, just wandering, exploring and the like. I have had wonderful players helping me, notably Oroborous, ShiftingAllegiances and others associated with nature based characters. They have helped me get into a role within the server quite easily. Beforehand, I have to admit, I flitted between PC's and found it hard to integrate, but with the help of these guys, and a strength within myself to follow the goals of my Character, I am really enjoying the Server. I think that you have to include yourself in plots and factions to really get somewhere, of course, others might disagree, but interaction on your own part is something that has to be there.

Don't necessarily rely on someone else. Discovering things for yourself is a pleasure only rivalled by the joy of sharing something cool with another person.

I gotta agree with 9lives there.

9lives Don't necessarily rely on someone else. Discovering things for yourself is an pleasure only rivalled by the joy of sharing something cool with another person.

Yes, when by myself, I totally discovered that Beholders have at least a 13 in Spot or Listen.

Then I discovered the DC on a Death Ray from a Beholder.

Then I discovered the fun of respawning naked in the Sand Caverns and trying to run home to momma.

ALL BY MYSELF!

:)

Oroborous

9lives Don't necessarily rely on someone else. Discovering things for yourself is an pleasure only rivalled by the joy of sharing something cool with another person.

Yes, when by myself, I totally discovered that Beholders have at least a 13 in Spot or Listen.

Then I discovered the DC on a Death Ray from a Beholder.

Then I discovered the fun of respawning naked in the Sand Caverns and trying to run home to momma.

ALL BY MYSELF!

:)

In my experience when playing Criler, I was able to unlock many areas and sneak into secret areas, some of which I believe may have been unseen by any other PC. Through that, I had Criler formulate a hypothesis on the Appetite, which for a time quickly spread through the Seekers and Sewer Town. This little hypothesis based on individual explorations spurred hate against the Spellguard, which only worked to my favor.

The point being, it's possible to carve out your own individual perks based on what's given in the gameworld to use to your advantage. While it's not easy, the resources are there! For those who struggle in finding these, they are highly encouraged to meet with factions and be involved in current plots and plans of PCs and DMs alike.

ALL BY MYSELF! :)

I believe Ninelives was referring to plots, not actual exploration of the Underdark, Oroborous.

Anything, really.

I was just being playful. I'm like a kitten.

Except better at PvP.

Garem Hmm, from what I see, this is being done RIGHT NOW more than any time before...

There's an almost exclusively PC faction that basically owns 1/4 of the city.

There's a Civil Service leader who takes frequent expeditions to deal with the prevalant undead threats.

There's a druid faction with some recognizable leadership, and it's WORKING.

A two year old PC faction that has been the the slumps is finally starting to get some notice...

Recently, a Paladin rallied a large number of warriors for a cause. The crusade never happened, but for a little while things were -epic-.

A young lady who believes in beauty in love about all things is getting people interested in the often non-existant social side of adventuring.

There's a knight trying to get an Upper Class armed force, bookkeeping staff, and trade organization arranged.

There's an upcoming although not yet started group of people who may become a faction of hardcore patriots. I don't know what they're going to do just yet, but there are some pretty big opportunities with them.

Lastly, an age-old faction, the Seekers, are in the pits and waiting for a new and inspiring PC to lead them back to greatness... or final defeat.

Again, I think things are actually going quite well in relation to involving others. I say, if you don't think you're getting involved enough, you're probably not trying very hard, for whatever reason. Even the opportunity to involve others as a leader instead of just getting invloved is open!

Yeah, I definitely got a hard on.

Oroborous I was just being playful. I'm like a kitten.

It's all good. ^_^

Sternhund, let's face it. If Oro were the kitten and you were the gun, he'd still down haste and beat you with level 2, Weapon Focus: Scratching Claw kitty sorceror.

Anyways, an importantly notable point that should be raised again.

I have met some characters with some really awesome ideas. In my current character's position, I hear about and actually have some say (although, everyone totally overestimates the extent of my character's influence!) in getting people involved or helping them to involve others. From all the ideas I've heard, I can't say there's a bad one to come up yet. The problem is exactly as Oroborous put it.

Be around. Don't disappear. A huge part of that is playing ONE character. If you want to play two or three or ten, fine, that's your choice. Just realize that there is a serious negative consequence of having the opportunity to make these impacts on the server when you've spread yourself. Getting into plots and reaching your own goals can be hard enough on one character. Doing it with two is nearly impossible.

The thing is also you are never going to meet all the wonderful interesting PCs out there due to timezones, I never met the Count not once and I have been in the Montezzi for a while, most of the chars you mentioned Gywdiom and Garem are US players in US timezones, theres a tonload more out there so why not try americans playing at 3am! I know theres still that big no DM timeslot but what I like is playing in the different timezones, different things are always going on etc.

This is true, MGS, but there's not much to help that. >.>

One group I forgot to mention (mostly because of timezone issues, I never see them) is the Tymoran faction going on right now. I think they're rocking out. I just don't have any idea.

The best advice I can have in this case is to do things to let your actions be known. If you're an Asian timezone where not many people play, and you want to run a thieves guild, yea, it sucks.

Sorry?

dshadowkat mostly gets what I was trying to say I think.

First, I'm not saying - "Take my character out to see stuff." I have an elf ranger with very high stealth ratings that can get just about anywhere if I want. This is not about me, surprisingly. :)

Second, to anyone that suggests that if I see a need to welcome new players and show them the ropes, that I should do it - ROFLMAO. I'd be hard pressed to think of many characters that RPed and helped out with new players more than my dwarves did, and not just dwarves.

If you people would please really read what I am trying to say, instead of immediately trying to figure out how many ways I am wrong, this message might be more constructive.

In a nutshell, major PCs used to be more visible, and to me were the most fascinating thing about EfU when I started here two years ago. Lathae reading a journal in the Rock Bottom. Grey Jenkins getting a group of disparate characters, including some newbs, to go on a cool DM quest. Strife lecturing newb spellcasters on the law and generally being creepy. Genevis Ward strolling about and talking to the citizens. Edmund the physician organizing an exploration party to the stone giant lands and the great chasm.

LOL, maybe I'm nostalgic.

Currently, I think the PCs that are doing things are much less visible and well known in general. If I didn't learn about things OOCly in the forums, I'd have very little idea about who the significant PCs are in Sanctuary if I'd just gotten here a month ago, other than second hand accounts and rumors.

Maybe I'm wrong, as most of you seem to suggest. But I can't recall the last time a new character walked by - and PCs acted concerned or helpful. As a matter of fact, usually people just stand there when a new character strolls by in my recent experiences.

Linelle was honest at least. She doesn't RP helping new characters out because it annoys her when she finds out they are vets on a ghost account. If that's a fairly common feeling, then that would fully explain my impression.

All right. I already made most of these points to Howland via PM, and if I'm full of shit then at least it was a good discussion, and we'll all be a little more aware these issues.

yeah garem i agree with you :(

People suffer from rosy retrospection far too much. This applies to real life just as it applies to the game. You look back on the 'old days,' and only remember the good times, and none or few of the bad times. All of the pointless wandering around or waiting for people to come back from a quest is forgotten in the wave of your characters accomplishes.

While I may agree that there are not as many quirky characters around as there used to be, it was not as drastic as you portray it. People still take desperate newbs questing, still help them out. However, a lot of big name PCs have been killed off due to obvious aspects IG. This means that there will be a slow recovery rate when new PCs have a chance to shine, and rally others to their cause. As soon as someone shows themself to be a true leader, they will 'shine' out to you.

It may also be better to phrase things as 'low level' and 'high(er) level' then just new players and vets. Vets still want to have fun, and interact with cooler high level characters too!

I had put my own PC faction in hibernation after about a ton of disinterest and then I stopped playing the PC as a main although I still tried to get some additions from the more regular players. That said I have to say with every faction there is something that could go on, I had a lot of things that -could- have been done with a certain amount of people =/. Anyway I am going to revive it as a newbie faction as soon as I get done with being burned out with the character, faction, and the IC/OOC crap associated.

maybe I'm nostalgic

I think you hit the nail on the head. I've done it myself, and perhaps overdone it. I see major characters interactive on a daily basis though, they are in game and doing things. Perhaps you are just due to bad luck missing them.

Just wanted to make a point on the timezone issue. If you can't reach a character IG, you can usually still reach them through the forums. You can plan things out and conspire with people who you rarely see. I know I am somewhat a forum whore, that passes myself about to anyone who wants to write me a letter, but I think thats a good thing. Except for all the herpies.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I've done it myself, and perhaps overdone it. I see major characters interactive on a daily basis though, they are in game and doing things. Perhaps you are just due to bad luck missing them.

OK, I have a little better concept of what I meant now. :)

Characters that create awesome experiences for others like Thane did for the Sentinels, Rorain Blimfrickenchicken did doing patrols in the Machine, and the many who go out of their way to include more than a select few in general exploration, static quests and just cool stuff in general are awesome, and IMO we could stand to see more of it.

trendymonster's first paragraph above is pretty much spot on.

In a year or perhaps even less, people will look back on characters playing in the current server climate with nostalgic fondness, and wonder why there are no PCs like that in their time, and might even, as the tradition goes, say that this is because the server has changed in a detrimental manner since.

My general advice is just to chill and celebrate great PCs whenever they pop up without trying to find out why they were excellent or why or why not your current one is or isn't as similarly memorable.

Having recently moved on to a new character, I can say that I've been heavily involved in plots, being taken on quests, and long conversations about worldviews and such right from the get-go. The people I've met so far are invariably awesome, and there is a great variety, too. The server is as cool as I remember it ever being (admittedly, I've only been here about half a year), and people are definitely including low-level characters in their grand schemes and plots.

I have found the server fairly friendly to new characters.

Though everyone keep in mind just because things are good, you can always improve.

I do think the server is doing well, but I also think you can always do more to involve new people. I've seen quite a few real creative new ways to involve new characters but that dosn't mean I don't still expect to see yet even more (yes I'm greedy).

Also I would say i actually see far more newbish groups being clickish these days then the vets. The vets usually at least respond to my character, sometimes not always good or for a long time but usually you get some type of response.

So bottom line, Vet or not, Try to involve people, that's my thought.

dshadowkat

I'd love to see the width, depth, & breadth of this server ... but the fact remains that 1) a solitary PC has very very little chance of survival outside of Sanctuary walls. 2) without guidance there's not even a hint that what's out there is explorable and/or questable

A solitary PC does have a chance out there, but don't expect to live by clumking around in full plate out there! Rangers and Druids can travel far and wide..even rogues and to some extent wizards too! I have traveled far beyond what many people have seen with a goblin rogue! Learning what is dangerous out there can be an RP fest all in itself.

As for #2 Above...make that ranger, rogue or druid and have a look! There are many quests out there, and some are damn well hidden! Find it, THEN, assemble a group to journey out there and do it! Then YOU will be the one unveiling the mystery! Also, it's a good way to involve others. Soooo...RP to find out what to watch out for out there, then explore! Then, bring your pals and newbies alike! Look, you're then doing all the Vet things then! DMs also notice PC organised stuff like exploration trips! You'll be getting exactly the things you are wanting, and involving others, and definately bringing the Awesome!

As one of the folks who had a character mentioned in the initial post, I can honestly say that when I joined, things seemed very lively. There was pretty much one place that EVERYONE met: the rock bottom.

Didn't matter if you were new, old, good, evil, drunk, sober....whatever. Everyone ended up in that place. And that became a hot-bed of interaction and so on.

Now, we've got HQ's and spawn points in literally every corner of the server. This caused the player base to become separated and fractured, geographically.

Add to that the various similar factions and you just can't find a nice solid group. Take the House of Light for example. That group has been splintered off, essentially, into The Greycloaks, the Beacon and The Marching Men. Add up all 3 factions and you've got a nice size group. Currently, there are only a few (if any) in these groups individually.

However, I will say that when a character is new and with goals and plans for those goals not yet clearly solidified, I find it the easiest to make new and lasting in-character relationships.

The hardest part, is trying to keep these relationships going. Usually, because of radically different play times.

For example I played along side Ommadawn's spellguard agent a lot, but that's because I was just waking up (Chicago, U.S.) when he was going to sleep (Australia) because it was a 16 hour difference.

There is one other piece of advice I'd like to offer. If one of my characters was too high level to go on a quest, sometimes I'd go get a newer character, as an OOC way to help newer players quest and get used to the server.

I still will do that to this day....

And gwydion.....I'm still out there playing....just on an alt account! No shortage of newbie 'christening' for me!!

Cruzel wrote:

There used to be a faction, well sort of still is, though it's mostly inactive, Called the Sentinel. The former leader taught me a huge amount about the server, and to this date, it was the best faction I have ever been in on EFU. The player was Thane, and even though I was pretty new to the server, he pulled me in and shoed my noob ass more than any of my other PCs have ever learned. Mad props to him.

That said, I've always tried to live up to his example, and show the new players the ropes.

Long live Sorrell Greyn {Thane} -- He gave me 18 months of exploration focus on the server with one little map. Very powerful motivator for me to get deeply involved in the server. Motivated me to join a faction and question everything about Sanctuary.

:wink: