In a very good party with several level 8's and level 7's, it seemed the clowns quest was unbalanced for a party of that power. After checking with other party members, the consensus seemed to be that it was pretty wicked.

At one point we were surrounded by nearly 10 sneak-attack knife trick clowns, and then several of our characters got hit by the daze effect from the painted face clowns making us helpless.

We were well-buffed, barkskin and blur potions active, sword and shield. No, I wasn't drinking multiple speed potions in the meatgrinder on the way to the big tent.

I don't think that daze affect can be blocked, can it? Sucking down clarity potions maybe? Again, that's a prohibitive cost.

And seriously - too many stealth knife-attack clowns.

I did this a while back with a lower level party, and it wasn't bad at all.

Looking for Team Spellguard that was there to chime in.

The daze effect is color spray, and it can easily be blocked. The supplies are pretty cheap, and they will keep you alive.

I agree at times there can be too many of the knife trick clowns, but It scales to party and usualyl works out in the end.

That's just color spray?

BAH!

Still too many knife trick stealth mofos.

Nasty

This quest is way to easy I think it needs to be way harder. It needs some traps to!

I would say that sometimes the spawns don't seem to scale properly.

I've had groups with only three solid frontliners and tons of knife sneaking clowns spawned. I've also had groups with five or six frontliners and barely any knife sneakers spawning at all.

You can get some nasty damage from the knife trick clowns, but they are not optimized to dual wield. If you look at the combat logs you will notice that their AB is quite low. The quest is balanced, and nicely difficult IMO.

I agree with Gwydion on this one. I was there with him in fact. This quest is nuts. I generally avoid it like the plague but every once in a while for RP reasons end up going on it. I have a very hard time believing that the daze affect is just color spray because my PC was protected by PFE and he got dazed. As a matter of fact, they were color spraying all over and I kept getting that shield animation thing showing I wasn't affected. Then a bit later, presto, I was dazed....

I think perhaps the quest level range should be 5-10 instead of 4-8. Might give more of a warning to folks that it is going to be quite hard going.

Beggar,

The AB of the knife-trick clowns was at least +11. That might have been because I was flanked, but that gets back to the problem that there were just too many of them. Isn't that like a level 8 fighter with 16 STR? 8-10 enemies with sneak attack appearing in unison with a +11 AB is too much.

We weren't charging ahead. We were reasonably buffed. We had seasoned players who play their classes mechanically well. I know we were using up supplies at a frantic rate, yet we still were overwhelmed several times BEFORE we even got to the Big Tent.

You may say it's fine and nicely balanced, but I will never do that quest again if there are level 8's in my party. I've noticed the reward has been raised, but it isn't nearly enough to compensate for what higher level parties have to expend to survive.

And like I said, I did this quest a few days ago with a somewhat lower average party level, and it was almost too easy. It's not as if we had a bunch of noobs doing stupid things on this.

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Dragon, you are full of crap because your Watchman laid on the ground at -4 hp, and still you had him begging to be healed.

Twice.

Saying it was too easy when you should have died other than pure luck is illogical.

As requested, team Spellguard chiming in. ;)

I too was on the quest that Gwydion is talking about. The number of knife trick clowns was simply unbelievable (30 or so, by my guess in the first section), and then having face painted clowns tossed into the mix it only made it worse. While the AB may be low, as The Beggar mentioned, the simple amount of these guys made short work of our group. Even erglion's PC, who I wager had AC28, was still getting cut to shreds left and right by these guys.

The being said, I did expect the spawn rate to be high when we went in. The clowns quest, at least for me, is notoriously dangerous. Out of the group of 6, I believe 4 of us were level 8 - if that effects the spawn.

Personally, I love it, but that might just be my Will save speaking.

I have a very hard time believing that the daze affect is just color spray because my PC was protected by PFE and he got dazed

You're protected from evil things. Maybe the clowns aren't evil.

That last time I went on that quest I had just blur on, charged the hell out of them and had them swing at me with my level 6 dwarf and expertise... Bobo couldn't even get a shot on me. Get some actual defenders with some support and you will be fine. I probably tanked about 5-6 at a time. I mean really, do I really have to give advice to people who seem to reach higher levels than me? >.>

There are several feats that can greatly help in this situation like expertise, improved expertise, and cleave(!). Knife-tricks have horrible AC.

Of course, apologies to team Spellguard for the poor late Murin not being there, he probably would have tanked 10 of them and we wouldn't be having this thread =p

I had just blur on, charged the hell out of them and had them swing at me with my level 6 dwarf and expertise...

If you re-read my posts, you'll notice that I said I have also played it with a lower level party. And it wasn't tough at all. That's not the issue.

Get some actual defenders with some support and you will be fine.

Erik Plainswalker and Grigorii Malchenko are two very solid, well equipped frontliners, with Garem's Dentra very good as well. If you care to read what I wrote, it was a very good, very well balanced party.

We had just gotten done smashing the flying Chosen quest in the Sewers.

I mean really, do I really have to give advice to people who seem to reach higher levels than me?

We don't need advice. I'm trying to inform the DM staff that with a higher level party, this scripted quest seemed WAY too tough. I'm suggesting it was the knife trick clowns - and possibly that they have a higher AB than they should.

Or that there should be fewer of them.

If your intent is to mock people that are trying to improve the quest and therefore the server, then I suggest that it's in poor taste.

I did the quest yesterday with a group of three, a fighter/barbarian, cleric, and wizard. The spawns were very easy for us. Piece of cake! Today I tried it with that group of 6 or 7. It was somewhat difficult, lots of color spraying and knife tricks. Two people died. Once we used (a spell), it got much easier. Part of the reason it was hard was because we had two rogues, and the quest scaled accordingly. I'm not sure if this is doable, it would be nice if it scaled less for rogues or if there was a way for them to shine, like get a hidden piece of treasure. Rogues shine on some quests, and this is definitely not one of them. Though it's not like people are not going to take rogues if it remains how it is.

NWN Encounters scale by level, not by class. higher levels in your groups mean higher encounters. I would not worry about what class they are, as long as they do their job.

The main issue for the main part of the quest is the knife clowns.

5 of them did take down a lvl 30ac-stoneskined-fully buffed-lvled 8 cleric rather easily some while ago... so perhaps tuning them ever so slightly down might be adequate, i dunno. Might make it too easy afterwards, as all the other spawns of the main quest are piece'o'cake.

Wasn't there a similar thread somewhere back? Like when the optional part was added?

Well, Dagam has a point though, Rogues are definately handicapped in clowns because the clowns aren't affected by sneak attacks. Rogues are basically relegated to being archers that don't hit very hard. Also, because most of it is open space, it is very hard to take a supporting position behind the frontline. I'm not complaining about rogues sucking on it though. Rogues are bad with illusions and undead, just plain fact....

Back to Gwydion's point though, it is just a bit excessive if you have some level 8'ers in your party, and we had a few of them.

All you need is a Solid group

SilkenEnigma The daze effect is color spray, and it can easily be blocked. The supplies are pretty cheap, and they will keep you alive.

I agree at times there can be too many of the knife trick clowns, but It scales to party and usualyl works out in the end.

Actually, it is a stun, not a daze. I am 100% positive about this. It should be a daze. No movement, no potions, just pain.

Yes, rogues are really crippled in this quest. Of course, sometimes aforementioned rogues just leave Deadly Electric Traps and almost kill three pe... er, nevermind.

If it's not the spawns, it's a matter of the order. Stun + six SAers split between two frontliners can kill both in a matter of three rounds or so, and rogues and wizards won't be able to do much to free them.

Also, this may be a bug report, but clarity was NOT working in protecting me from their color spray. We were careless because we used it, but it failed and Gwyd died. The buff was applied no longer than three minutes before the death. If it just doesn't last that long, then that spell is terrible. Oh, and PfE wasn't working against EVIL clowns either, which was frustrating to no end.

All that aside, with all these problems, once we used on single effect it was much, much easier. Even the hardest thing to fight on the main part of the quest that I won't mention fell pretty down pretty fast. After blur, that is.

Garem

Yes, rogues are really crippled in this quest. Of course, sometimes aforementioned rogues just leave Deadly Electric Traps and almost kill three pe... er, nevermind.

It was actually a Strong Trap. Deadly would have been.. well.. deadly. :oops:

Oh. I knew it was either deadly, strong, or LOLtrap. My bad.

Thomas, don't think you're reading what we're posting. We had a real solid group, we just finished a breezy walkthrough the Chosen quest in the sewers.

With a number of level 8'ers in this quest, it scales up it seems exponentially, not incrementally. That's it. I mean if that is the way it is supposed to happen, fine, that's cool. Just won't do the quest with high level folks.

No question this quest can be -very- difficult. That's what makes it fun. Go into it prepared and use tactics. Without spoiling too much, simple things like utilizing your archers can make a big difference. There is a cliff to your left, think about that next time you have a few archers with you. Also, just having one really high AC frontliner (imp expertise) with some hps can turn the tide completely. Someone needs to be -the- focus of the majority of sneak attacks. Your rogues should be the guys with high listen/spot, certainly not a waste when stealthed people are coming at you.

If there was one suggestion I would give to the quest is to add some loot, because this one gets really expensive. On those lines though, sometimes you have to spend to survive. Don't be afriad to stock up before going in there.

Like Panama says. Either toned down a bit for higher levels, or better rewards. Or people aren't going to do it with higher level parties - which is fine. I'd suggest the level cap on this one the way it is structured should be 4-7.

I don't mind hard stuff. In fact, I'd like to do it more now that I suck less.

But it would require balls-out supply usage to survive as is. So either more loot drops or some really nice ones.

The pay is more, but getting 150-250 coin doesn't cover the three blur potions, two barkskins, PfE, apparently multiple clarity potions - etc.

You nubs, I used to solo this quest. All I had to do was turn on Invulnerability on my Avatar. I didn't even get hit once with my 40 AC. Hellball makes this quest too easy too.

Come on guys.

Seriously though, I've died plenty on this quest and still love it. If you were really getting 30 SAs a round I agree, that's just brutal.

Also, with PfE and clarity you have to be careful due to the non Evilness of some creatures and the non-mind spell modifier on some of the spell effects that change due to level range. You can get hit with CS and still be blinded havng mental protections up. I think.

Dragon, you are full of crap because your Watchman laid on the ground at -4 hp, and still you had him begging to be healed.

Just because this bears repeating :twisted:

It's possible this is too hard now. I'll reduce the difficulty slightly next time I think of it.

Sherry, we had like, 50% level 8s on that quest. I don't think it's a difficulty problem, it's a scale problem! And the payout blows...

Garem wrote:

The buff was applied no longer than three minutes before the death. If it just doesn't last that long, then that spell is terrible.

Clarity only last for 1 turn I believe regardless of caster level.

Talimus Karn Clarity only last for 1 turn I believe regardless of caster level.

Sort of sliding off topic, I'd like to see the duration of Clarity extended so it's a more viable spell. What are the chances?

Seconded.

It's the only perk of the Law domain - and as is - it's too short.

A turn/level duration would make this a much more viable spell.

This is not balanced.

One level eight character in a party of four is enough to trigger a spawn of the same amount of knife trick clowns and same amount of stun-spell clowns in one single encounter (meaning that virtually all encounters have TPK potential). This time we only lived because I'm so bloody triggerhappy with my Invis potions and had 100+ hp.

Oh, and PfE wasn't working against EVIL clowns either, which was frustrating to no end.

BTW, just a reminder... such critters as the spiders in Spellguard quest and the Hook Horrors are also neutral, since after all they are animals. Just saying because many times the party clerics cast PfE on their mates, when the spell is usleless. I don't think this is FOIG, because this is supposed to be common character knowledge in the EFU universe.

If this is, excuse me. :oops:

Clowns were evil. Used detect evil several times. so PfE should work