Quite simply put, I'm curious as to what level of magical items you (DMs) expect to be seeing as our characters mature and grow into recognized adventurers.

Personally, I've always felt that Arabel's magic level was simply a plus too low to allow non-optimized characters a real fighting chance - unless, of course, a DM saw fit to grant you something really special. Naturally, I'm not expecting +3 weapons in every store, but a slightly higher level of accesibility for +2 equivalents than I've seen so far would be a good thing, I think - I know that the character I'm planning certainly needs all the help he can get.

The Underdark tends to be a more magically condensed place than the surface. We plan to have it start out with a relatively low amount of powerful items, focusing on flavorful items rather than powerful.

As the module and the character base matures, more powerful items will become more common, eventually exceeding the magic level witnessed in other PW's that are based on the surface world, Arabel being a good example.

I think that powerful magic items should be uncommon or rare. if they become to common than they are no longer considered valuable because everyone has them. I liked Arabel's approach on magic and I hope Etfu's is somewhat similar.

I saw +1 armour and whatnot in the shops when I was totally running around where I wasn't supposed to.

I hope that's still there when EFU goes up.

Ladocicea I saw +1 armour and whatnot in the shops when I was totally running around where I wasn't supposed to.

I hope that's still there when EFU goes up.

Unfortunately, I think that I'm going to be dashing your hopes on this one. That armor was there because Howland hasn't gotten a chance to change the default shops yet-- but rest assured, they will be changed substantially before we go live. No Immunity: Knockdown items and Belts of Freedom for sale, please! :)

Can we have lots and lots of completely useless, completely unique ambient loot?

I think that's a really nice way to spread awesome stuff with little to no affect on the magic level.

I'd offer to make some if the need arises.

Ladocicea Can we have lots and lots of completely useless, completely unique ambient loot?

I think that's a really nice way to spread awesome stuff with little to no affect on the magic level.

I'd offer to make some if the need arises.

Yes. :D

Yes we can have lots of completely useless completely unique ambient loot or yes you can .erf us some of your own?

... Or both? :o

We have lots of useless unique ambient loot (and some useful unique ambient loot). If you have item ideas (with good colorful descriptions), by all means send them in.

EDIT Don't send us .erfs though, that just clutters the palette. Just name/description/properties in text.

Haha Howland, one step ahead of you!

Submit your useless ambient loot ideas here!

Since a point of reference is useful to know what we talk about:

The starting magic lvl of CoA (you don't get a +2 full set armour/shield/weapon right at the start) where it takes time to adquire medium magical items, it's fine for me.

From a strictly mechanic point of view, the lvl cap is not, I want to be able to keep advancing, it doesn't matter if you get so little XP at lvl12 that reaching 15 would take a full year, but I want the feeling that somehow my char advances, even if it takes a month to get 1k XP.

The chars that raise over others still get their tokens of RP and DM loot, they'll be rewarded the same.

I agree that there should never be a point where you're getting 0 exp for everything, but I'm thinking maybe that might not be necessary in EFtU.

The escape factor gives me the impression that characters won't be around long enough to gain that kind of power.

Aside from that, I don't remember the DMs ever saying there would be a total dead end hard cap on a certain level, which is nice (I might be wrong. I probably missed something out). I think it's always good to leave that option open should someone advance in levels at a tremendous and tasteful rate, and have reason to stay in Sanctuary long enough to gain a huge amount of power.

I do agree but...

My opinion is that there should be magical items but they should be unique, individual and have a point to them.

A +1 blade is really generic and boring to get. Sure, it'll help your character in killing anything.. but what will it help the story? What if you found a +1 blade of killing orcs from the dying hands of an old ranger and use it to avenge his death by slaying an evil orclord with it? Then the weapon would have story and most importantly become valid within the world.

Just to let people know where I'm coming from on this, but I'm not necessarily speaking for the whole DM team.

I'm hoping experience and "loot" become secondary rewards on this server. By having a higher ratio of DMs to players, we should be able to focus more on stories, whether it is a plot initiated by a DM or a player. If your goal is just to see how many +2 and +3 items you can get, you are likely to be disappointed, especially early on.

I plan to always focus on specialised items instead of general items. I'll be much more likely to give out a sword that is +2 vs goblins than +2. I actually get disappointed when loot becomes an arms race to see who can get the best stuff first, and I think specialised items are a good part of the solution to the problem. Players all of the sudden have to make choices on whether they feel a +2 vs goblin or +2 vs vermin sword is better, or whether +1 will or +3 vs fear is better. I like the choices made to be part of what makes a character unique, instead of just who happened to get the "best" stuff making someone superior to someone else.

The other thing to remember, is we'll be watching what we give out. Arguing that people "can't do things" without having more powerful equipment is bogus. The game world is balanced to less equipment as easily as it is to more.

Your character should face the same challenges at level 10 as they did at level 2. As the creatures they encounter grow in power, so will your character. If that requires an enchanted weapon, certain types of spells, or a different kind of armor, then those items will become available in the setting.

Personally, I believe a setting's magic level should force players to think about an encounter and challenge them to be creative in devising ways to defeat opponents. It should not allow a character to simply wade through encounters without breaking a sweat. Otherwise, combat just becomes a matter of clicking a button and watching attack rolls scroll by.

Ladocicea

Aside from that, I don't remember the DMs ever saying there would be a total dead end hard cap on a certain level, which is nice (I might be wrong. I probably missed something out). I think it's always good to leave that option open should someone advance in levels at a tremendous and tasteful rate, and have reason to stay in Sanctuary long enough to gain a huge amount of power.

My sentiments exactly, if someones good enough at involving other people, or preaches their gods will fervently enough, or is so groin-thrustingly awesome as a loincloth covered barbarian, they should be able to attain the highest levels of power -- however, this may be as a precursor to an event which finishes their characters story. We'll see how things go.

Magic level isn't just about who deserves X item. It's also about game balance. If the best weapon in the game is a +2 vs direrat handaxe, you can expect mages to wipe the floor with meleers.

Well the argument could be made that magic is indeed more "powerfull" than an axe/sword. But then again, a wizard cought of guard and without memorized spells could easily be floored with as much as a spoon not to say a +2 vs direrat handaxe.

I'd like the magic level to be lower than that of even CoA's. In the underdark, it seems logical to me that magically enchanted items are all the more rare.

Aueft In the underdark, it seems logical to me that magically enchanted items are all the more rare.

Actually, the reverse is true, as magic is plentiful and strong in the Underdark. It is a harsh and demanding place in which its inhabitants rely on magic to survive. For example, whereas a simple spell of Light on the surface is typically used to enhance an area, the same use of this spell in the Underdark could mean the difference between life or death for a traveler. Also, the creatures adventurers encounter in the Realms Below are unlike anything found on the surface and magic is required to overcome a large number of them.

Instead of envisioning the Underdark as a desolate and backward region of Toril, where magic would be scarce and powerful to most, try to imagine a place where generations upon generations of folk have learned to adapt and manipulate the Weave to carry out their daily lives.

Aueft I'd like the magic level to be lower than that of even CoA's.

I defiantly understand the many comparisons to the City of Arabel, but would caution players to do so in terms of the level of magic in each setting. Their setting is in a cannon city on the surface of Faerun, which is about as opposite as one could be from EfU. As soon as characters start descending underground, the level of magic used around them dramatically increases from what they found common to the surface.

Magic level isn't just about who deserves X item. It's also about game balance. If the best weapon in the game is a +2 vs direrat handaxe, you can expect mages to wipe the floor with meleers.

Mages are always going to be more powerful in higher levels than melee type characters, unless you include ridiculously overpowered immunity items. The simple nature of magic gives the mage an advantage over the guy with a sword. Melee types and mages were never meant to be balanced and never should be.