I've been experimenting with these lately, and some just strike me as odd.

Some insect shapes grant Intelligence penalties and Mind Immunities. Wild shape shouldn't affect your ability to think-but I thought at first the Intelligence penalty was a trade off for the Mind Immunity.

Other forms grant unknown Damage Resistance or a host of other properties.

There is something to be said for trial and error, but honestly, druids should know what powers a form grants and I'd strongly suggest an actual list of the changes to Wild Shape and what the forms do. I'm not certain if the forms are even balanced very well, druids seem to lack a decent 'combat' form but its hard to say without knowing what all the abilities the Shape Change grants really are.

Agreed!

Sometimes it's simply impossible to figure out what all the shapes do. Worse, the abilities seem to be somewhat random and inconsistent.

While Oro and I were talking about this, I suggested making a list available in the Journal entries. This would be a journal that would appear only when you gain the Wildshape ability. A second would be added at level 8 where new abilities are added.

I'd love an opportunity to go through wildshapes and suggest changes with a DM some time. I could name a few off hand here, like the incredibly low str in some forms. This would be fine in PnP where you could just drop your pack and fly off, but here dropping your pack means you risk losing it to a crash. So I'd suggest these low str forms be given an str of say.. 10 and a massive damage and AB penalty so that they are still weak in melee combat (as they should be).

This is doubly useful for the "low-strength" forms since often times even though what you are wearing "merges" with your Wild Shape form-the weight stays in the inventory.

Mmm yeah. Nothing makes me more sad than cruising around in a low STR form only to have the server save and .. boom. Heavily encumbered again because my 'worn' equipment has suddenly been added to my total weight again, forcing me to either drop/pickup something or move an item in or out of a bag in my inventory to 'fix' it.

In regards to the weight thing, I recall that I solved that problem on my druid by dropping something from my inventory, then picking it up.

I am against this list and the knowledge that it gives.

First off, this is entirely Find out IG knowledge. Why did you turn into a rothe without first studying the rothe to know its immunities and weaknesses? The rat might be able to hide you better, but it sure as hell is going to make you weaker!

Secondly, this knowledge is going to be meta-gamed. That (Spoiler) immunity yet weakness to (spoiler) is going to be exploited, period. I ask you, why would a mage know that the sleep spell won't work on a bug without first testing it out on an actual subject? Would a a fighter know not to use that Ice Damaging weapon against the druid in (spoiler) form? Would he also know to use (spoiler) against (Spoiler) form?

Does the sorcerer know that the Shadow Mastiff form allows the Druid to (spoiler) his surrounding enemies?

Knowledge of all creatures can be found out in an In character fashion. The abilities, weaknesses, and other miscellaneous fun that each form gives is to be found out in Character.

This knowledge is not innate- it's learned.

As to the weight bug, do as what LTS said, drop an item and pick it back up.

You're looking at the problems with the suggestion, not the problems it's dealing with, Thomas!

As they say, these immunities seem to be incredibly random, and they would like some sort of clarification to some of them. You can't use logic, I'd assume, beyond "Rat = weaker, sneakier", "Rothe = Big, high hp" etc., so this should be fixed! A Druid only OOC pamphlet would be a good solution, in my eyes.

I've found it difficult to learn what these forms do even with trial and error. Often times I don't have the option to try more then one thing, because if the first one fails- I'm either dead or running out of uses. I Basically had to ask other people, since even when you're in those forms, you cant see what you have and what you don't. This would be very helpful, and allow the druids the same opportunities as every other class in terms of knowing what you can and cannot do. Its a really big part of the class. I'd love to have at least some hints as to the benefits of each form.

I agree with this suggestion.

lovethesuit In regards to the weight thing, I recall that I solved that problem on my druid by dropping something from my inventory, then picking it up.

Truly difficult if you are in combat or being chased.

The rat might be able to hide you better, but it sure as hell is going to make you weaker!

Why did you turn into a rothe without first studying the rothe to know its immunities and weaknesses

Secondly, this knowledge is going to be meta-gamed.

Knowledge of all creatures can be found out in an In character fashion.

This knowledge is not innate- it's learned.

As to the weight bug, do as what LTS said, drop an item and pick it back up.

Thomas, your responses in the suggestions forum lately seem to be very hostile and closed-minded. :x

Just to clarify, since I did kinda derail. This is two suggestions.

First, to return to the Wildshapes and make sure they still make sense. Some have broken abilities. Some are useless in their current state. In combat, there are none better suited than simply staying as a humanoid, even with the severely restricted armor and weapons available to a druid.

The second is to simply provide OOC information to the druid such that they can best use the forms for different situations. A mage is given all the OOC information they need about their spells. So is a priest. So is a druid! All except their wildshape, that is.

Edited for horrible grammar oversight!

I am testing the Republican/conservative/religious mania side of my HEart :(

I found out I didn't like it.

Supported.

I completely agree, its pretty dumb that a druid in his or her shape wouldn't know their own abilities. As far as meta gaming is concerned...who cares? Players should have the right going into their characters to know what kinds of things to look forward to. I for one didn't realize there was a shark shape until someone told me, had I known, I may have wanted to play a different kind of druid that uses the shape more often.

Secrets about game mechanics are dumb, those should be reserved for plots.

I think I mostly share the supporters' sentiments. As a matter of fact, there is much mechanics information I wouldn't mind giving players access to, but I suspect I'm probably one of a few who feel that way.

I think Posting a list is bad.

Thomas basically had it, but he didnt clarify.

Say for example the shape oromentioned with mind immunities.

People will exploit that. if a list is published, they will not for example, use mind spells on the form mentioned, because they know OOCly it is immune.

Chances are they will give some lame excuse like "Well, my character would know that anyways, they see those creatures often enough." Nothing gets on my nerves more than the "Well I would know anyways." I used to be one of those people until I found out how much more rewarding it is to actually learn about these IG.

If you want to know what a form does, Open your character sheet and write down the bonuses, etc. It will take time but you will have learned it IG, and tehre is no need to worry about getting lamed in PVP by people who abuse the list of abilities/immunites etc.

There's already a list of what every spell does. There's no reason to say this single point of knowledge should remain hidden. Everyone already knows if you cast PvE you can't get hit by X spells; its the same thing.

Further, even LOOKING at the character sheet, I'm not sure what some forms do. I'm pretty sure I know what the DR a rothe has accomplishes but hate to risk getting myself killed just to check it out. I'd rather a list to just see.

I concur, (though I may be biased), there is a lot more crucial "FOIG" material here on the forums, than knowing some basic information about druidic wildshapes that are custom to EFU.

While I hav ehad some fun guessing and checking different shapes, big mechanical custom changes to the basic NWN five wild shapes like that should be known, I'd think.

When I played a druid, I had no idea what I could do. None. Even playing in certain shapes for hours, I wasn't sure what I was okay against and what I wasn't. When I guessed wrong I just about died, so that limited the opportunities and my willingness to go out of my way to test these things in dangerous situations.

I'd just like some hint. And common sense doesn't cut it with many of those forms. All of them should be immune to things that target humans. Charm person and the like. I don't know what Min immunity means when i see it on a character sheet: Protection from evil makes that appear, and we all know that doesn't cover things universally. I just believe that hiding this, doesn't do anything positive, unless you provide opportunities for those that have them, to learn about them.

I would give examples but that would be considered spoilerish. It doesnt make any sense at all, that a person can change their bodies into another creature, and then no matter how much time spent in that form, have no idea the extent to which they experience the surroundings.

Lets say for example, you can turn into a toad that is immune to fire. And since you don't often run into fire in the wild, You have no idea that while int he frog form, you might feel more comfortable around heat them your should otherwise be. There are abilities that some of these forms have, that should be available to the person Roleplaying them. I'm not asking that you give us a list of every animal and every stat change. Just the things that we should readily realize once we shift into that form. Maybe only give it in yellow text soon as you shift? And keep it IC. I mean, I don't care, personally, I do however feel that it is appropriate to allow a person to know what they are and aren't not good at.

Newbitronologist's Two Cents:

I agree with Ebok. I'd suggest making a brief statement of each wild shape and it's capabilities; similar to what the EfU team did with the pages on animal companions and familiars.

An example from the animal companions:

Slicer Beetle (Replaces Badger Companion) Slicer beetles are subterranean monsters boasting powerful sword like mandibles, capable of shredding prey, and a single huge horn. While their shells are not thick, few predators dare to tangle with their powerful jaws. Gameplay Tip : Slicer beetles have few predators because of their mandibles and horn, not their shell.

I think something such as this is suitable. It doesn't give away any immunities and the like, but gives players a general idea of the creatures use.