This is not a gripe, but a suggestion. My character died in PvP, but I'm cool with it and very happy with the way Deputy handled it.

However, there is an OOC element of being in a scripted quest that puts a character at a distinct disadvantage in my opinion.

To make it clear - I suck at PvP, and everytime I get pwned I say to myself, "dummy, you should have done X/Y/Z, and you would have had a chance." So that's the main reason I got pwned, but some of it is that I essentially crapped my pants due to OOC reasons - I was trying to figure out what was going on.

The DM staff can say, "Scripted quests are just as likely PvP settings as any other, so be aware," and I get that. But there is a bit of increduality and shock when you get rushed by a bunch of fully-buffed, invisible PCs when you already have your hands full with scripted quests that are carefully balanced and have been augmented significantly over the last couple of years.

When my character is in Lower, or the Underdark, or even Upper, you know that it could happen at any time.

Maybe a last minute "You feel a presence behind you" from the DM observing the PvP to at least give you a sporting chance?

We don't encourage PvP between characters with large level differences. Perhaps the fact that assassin squads already have an overwhelming advantage by hitting a character or party when they are fully engaged in a scripted quest, it might make for better PvP that is more satisfying to both parties?

On a side note, though I am fine with the death of my character, it was a bit anticlimatic to be mauled by characters that I have never Rped with in any way.

I'd also suggest to all players, that assassins give the player the opportunity to respawn after they are fugued, so that they can play out the final scene the way they want. It's a better story. It would have been much more satisfying that way, and when you play a character for months and work hard to make a difference - it would be a nice OOC courtesy.

Totally cool with the hit though, just a couple suggestions to make it more fun for the victims.

EDIT - the player of Ghyrrt graciously contacted me after the incident, and offered to talk about it in a very cool way. I have absolutely no beef with him or any of the other players. Just some suggestions I developed to make a more satisfying experience.

I actually don't agree that PvP in scripted quests should be restricted, but I do agree that one should get the chance to RP the death of a character. Being able to respawn from the fugue and make a dramatic death scene would be more satisfying, probably for both sides.

Respawning from death to be killed again, in my opinion, is weak, foolish, and won't happen.

If you want a dramatic scene, hopefully your assailants would subdue your and your group, and then if you have and your group the courtesy to stay subdued and RP, then you'll get a death worthwhile. If your group continues to get up despite being subdueed, invis, heal, and try to save you and your group or beat up your attackers, then I'd say you deserve what you get.

Having played evil for a good while, and being killed numerous times, 90% of people killing other PC's are considerate and if you play ball, they'll gladly return the favor.

Faction areas, Quest areas, Public areas.

All are fair game.

If the Dms say "lol no pvp in quests", I could see a fair deal of people perhaps abusing that, and spend all their time questing when a hit is out on them.

Didn't mean to imply restricted - just some kind of IG heads up to make PvP a bit more level.

Mort once sent me an OOC tell when his half-orc Morghuul was going to jump my character just to make sure I was cool with it, and it was a nice gesture. I didn't react OOCly to it and start buffing my ass off, but when it came, I was able to react in a more natural way as my character normally would.

It was an epic PvP, lasting several minutes, and I think all three involved loved it.

I might be in support of allowing players, under DM supervision, to respawn from being assassinated once the assassin has dragged the corpse to a non-hostile place. Something that often occurs with public assassinations is that people who you did not intend to attack you do, or people go to get reinforcements and such. Combining that PvP is not really the time to RP in depth (on either side), and the likelihood of just wanting to kill tha target and get out of there, it would be nice to play out an ending to the character where both sides can focus on the RP, and not the PvP. However, this would have to be strictly DM approved, and end with them being FDed again (like, no rescue squad being able to rescue them).

While sending OOC tells to warn the player ruins the atmosphere in my perspective, I can see that being ganked in quests is somewhat demeaning. However, being on quests, you have several advantages, both mechanical and characterwise. Your assassins will usually have NPC enemies to fight as well (who may aid you somehow, like a disable or a crit in the right place). The targets may likely also be enchanted, heavily in some cases, while in the underdark and middle of the city they may be completely unprotected. Also, a character is more oriented to battle, focusing on what is hostile and fighting it and such, while being ganked mid-sentence can take more time to get used to, and likely mean you will be dead by the time you can react.

What? It's allowed?

Wtf. If I had known that, there's plenty of characters to this day who would most certainly not still be breathing.

Good to know.

We'll have to disagree on this one RWG.

I'm actually quite happy with the ending plotwise. The actual killing just ended up being a bit anticlimatic and disappointing, and I put some thought into why and this was my response.

Am only trying to offer a suggestion to make the PvP permadeath process a bit more fun for both sides. I think trendy gets what I meant.

I wanted to avoid sounding like a whiny bitch - but it seems I'm failing miserably, so I'll shut up now. :)

Will make a screenie thread tonight!

I just wanted to throw this out there. When making a hit in a QA--or anywhere, I suppose, please hostile the ENTIRE party (or hostile all minus those in your hit squad) that your target is a member of. When you've got twenty red glowing goblins three paces in front of you and your blue party members alongside you, it's rather difficult to determine whether or not your party members are being struck from behind by those supposedly blue non-hostiles that appeared during an ugly melee.

The hostile the entire server should do that trick...do it next time for ANY PvP.

RWG and _trendymonster_ pretty much nailed it.

/c hostile all /c subual subdual /c subdual full

All commands I suggest everyone macros!

I'd say you're at a better advantage on a quest than in town, unless you either DON'T buff up to the high heavens or you DO walk around town like you're on a quest.

Also, you and your buddies are already looking out for trouble on a quest, hands ready to react to bad situations.

Just throwing it out there...

I'm just going to be the devil's advocate here. A lot of people worry that if pvp is restricted in a questing area, people will abuse it. People already have in the past, and likely still to this day, abuse it in reverse.

People can just as easily hang about waiting for someone to go on a quest, and abuse the way it works so they can 'jump them at the end when their weakest'. It works both ways, and unless someone goes out of their way to hide in QA's, I find it a little ridiculous.

That said, no there shouldn't be restrictions on pvp in QA's. There is a certain level of OOC unfairness that goes into taking a death squad after someone's party into a QA though.

At least that's my opinion, for what it's worth.

One issue that's not been mentioned in this thread is the possibility for any reaction from other characters, as all the action is locked inside a QA.

There is always a chance that someone may witness the PvP or even intervene for one reason or another, no matter how small the chance is, it's there - this is simply not an option in a quest area.

And I concur with Mole's idea for hostiling everyone present. That's simple courtesy.

Ommadawn One issue that's not been mentioned in this thread is the possibility for any reaction from other characters, as all the action is locked inside a QA.

There is always a chance that someone may witness the PvP or even intervene for one reason or another, no matter how small the chance is, it's there - this is simply not an option in a quest area.

And I concur with Mole's idea for hostiling everyone present. That's simple courtesy.

Well from my experience, DM's leave a transition into a QA when this happens. But there isn't a lot of reason for a random passerby to wander into a QA alone. So anyway you slice it, there wouldn't be much chance of witnesses.

While I agree that PvP in QA's should be allowed. I have YET to see an attack on the said targets that didn't occur during the fight with the monsters in the quest.

I have seen these sorts of PvP attacks dating back nearly 2 years when a paladin named Dell was killed in the temple of hoar right as we opened a door with many monsters on the other side.

I, personally, have experienced two assassinations of my characters in this method as well.

And have just witnessed it again this week of a pair of other characters.

It seems, and this is pure conjecture since I'm not around for every pvp in a QA that's happened, that the QA pvp method is somewhat abused by the attackers.

The so-called advantage that the monsters can attack the assassins is muted by the fact that usually the intended victims already have the attention of the monsters. Most assassins are invisible when they strike. Since they attack their target instead of the monsters, when coming out of invisibility, the monsters don't disengage the victim.

Now one of my characters deaths was during a really, insanely chaotic fight in a QA. I loved it. Why? Because there was only ONE assassin! Not three or more. That's like fighting 3 or more Boss level NPC's at once and, honestly, few, if any, characters could survive that kind of attack.

The lone assassin risked it all to kill my character. Took advantage of the chaos and make his strike. Brilliant. But to have an ENTIRE SECOND party enter a QA seems....a little much.

QA gankings, more oft then not, result in the questing party getting killed by the assassins, not the other way around. If someone has successfully defeated an entire death squad while engaged in combat while in a QA, please speak up as it's pertinent to this discussion here.

So my only suggestion here (since this IS a suggestion forum we're posting in) is that perhaps assassin groups should be limited in size when going into a QA. Either that or perhaps larger assassin groups can't or have restricted attacks while the other team is engaged in combat with the monsters.

I am only tossing out ideas to try and appease both sides of this camp is all.

The thing is you must look at this from an IC view, Shit...im dead? I should of never taken that job up with that Paladin knowing full well im a heartless evil monster and our different viewpoints on life would clash.

When I had a bandit character, I would mug people by first telling them about a job of course they are interested because it means XP for them. I would not actually take the quest rather do it on the way there, but anyway I think PvP in Scripted Quests is fine, each time a scripted quest is taken I try and make it dynamic/different each time, this makes EfU feel more dynamic and keeps it IC and as far from OOC as possible.

MexicanGunslinger The thing is you must look at this from an IC view, Shit...im dead? I should of never taken that job up with that Paladin knowing full well im a heartless evil monster and our different viewpoints on life would clash.

When I had a bandit character, I would mug people by first telling them about a job of course they are interested because it means XP for them. I would not actually take the quest rather do it on the way there, but anyway I think PvP in Scripted Quests is fine, each time a scripted quest is taken I try and make it dynamic/different each time, this makes EfU feel more dynamic and keeps it IC and as far from OOC as possible.

You're talking about pvp between people in the same party during a quest. That's a bit different from a 2nd party coming in (with DM help) and wiping the floor with you.

If there's a price on your head, or you're involved in a potentially bloody feud I don't think it's prudent to be putting yourself in danger's path.

9lives If there's a price on your head, or you're involved in a potentially bloody feud I don't think it's prudent to be putting yourself in danger's path.

I can only speak from personal experience here, but on the two times I've experienced a QA party gank in my time on the server, none of the characters in those parties knew they had prices on their heads or were under any threat at that time.

This sort of DM response just leaves me feeling... meh, ninelives. It's not that simple.

I'm well aware, Omma. Few things really are.

I'm far more in favour of this than having people lurk at the quest-giving NPCs or quest area entrance and ganking at a transition.

9lives I'm well aware, Omma. Few things really are.

I'm far more in favour of this than having people lurk at the quest-giving NPCs or quest area entrance and ganking at a transition.

Situations which I believe are either illegal or frowned upon by the DM's who I assume should also be present for said PvP anyhow?

PvP is a can of worms at the best of times, and it's rare for all parties to walk away happy, or even satisfied. It's just something we all have to live with.